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Riveda1972 — [MMD] Locking files? No: Corrupting them (pt. 2)

#credits #locker #mmd #model #pmx #mikumikudance #pmxeditor
Published: 2017-08-28 14:09:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 22152; Favourites: 157; Downloads: 355
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Description

... or why I explode in a big (and SAD) laugh when you say that I would have ruined the MMDC

Hi again, friends and haters

I've had 2 or 3 days to study this matter deeper, after my so largely condamned and commented post about "how to unlock" PMX file that have been "locked" using PMX Model Locker (or manually changing a character in the file header definition)

Read it here as reference: fav.me/dbl8r2i

Really when I did it I hadn't forecasted what kind of reactions it would have caused. It has been, at the beginnig, just the consequence of a very banal comparison between a PMX file "locked" with PMX Model Locker and a standard working PMX file.
I've immediately realized the only difference was that "dirty character" in the header definition. But it seems that I've given away the Coca Cola secret recipe, causing an economic and ethical disaster to the MMD community. Even if there were tutorials yet about how to restore a "locked" model to its working version.
I've used past few days to go on studying the matter. And I'd like to share what I've understood.

About the file format: "locked" or simply "invalid"?
I've found a good scheme of the file structure here:
gist.github.com/felixjones/f8a…

A trouble with PMX file format is that is not really and officially documented. The only documentation (at least in english) is the one I've mentioned, and as far as I see, it's resulting by empirical experiences of modellers and editors, and by reverse engineering. Regardless of the origins of the documentation, it's almost complete, and surely at least complete to allow programmers developing any kind of plugins or stand-alone programs to manage this file format.

What I'm focus on is the header definition of the file. As specified, a valid PMX file must have "PMX " in the first 4 characters, including the space after "PMX".
I.e. the 4th character must be a space, for a PMX file to be considered valid and editable by PMX Editor or useable in MMM (Miku Miku Moving, alternate animation program similar to MMD).

The reason why MMD open "locked" PMX file is a still discussed matter. Some people have suggested it's because both PMX editor and MMM use .Net framework. I'm not persuaded about this suggestion. It's not a matter of what framework you use, when you open a file anche check for its format. The confirm is in some tests I've done yesterday.

You can download, here on the right, a simple, stupid model done for fun and just to explain this matter so you can make a test by yourself.

It's a square shape with just a texture on it. (DON'T STEAL PARTS! ... fun)

It comes in different version: the standard one, the one I've "locked" using PMX Model Locker, the one I've "unlocked" editing the "locked" one with an hexadecimal editor, and finally what I really find interesting: two versions where the 4th character (blank space in a working PMX file) has been replaced not by the "locker" character (ꁘ, hex code A0, ASCII value 160) but by other characters, precisely the "@" and the "©" characters. I've intentionally used two standard ASCII character just to exclude any interferences by a non standard charset. Simply try to open them if you wish to make a test.

You'll see that in both cases PMX Editor will refuse to edit them. MMD, instead, will still correctly load and use them, regardless they contains an unexpected character in 4th position instead of the "suppesed to be a locking character" (ꁘ).

Well, let's say this confirms my persuasion that "supposed-to-be-locked" PMX files are not really to be considered "locked" but just invalid/corrupted files. The only reason MMD loads and use them is that evidently MMD just checks the first 3 character, only to control if the file is a PMD or PMX one, simply ignoring what follows, then it proceeds checking other fields to load shapes, textures, weights and skeleton structure, morphs and so on.

So what? Locked or ivalidated it's the same thing!
Nevermind. I find this point very important. Any editing program supporting security locking to prevent further unauthorized edits, has behaviors that "supposed-to-be-locked" PMX files don't have at all.

First, no "edit locked" file would have just a character to mark it as "read only". They all use any kind of inner encryption to prevent unauthorized people editing it.
And most important, programs within they are used can recognize the encryption/locking and simply prevent the edit, but all of them allow you to open and use, preventing you only to edit and save any change. Absolutely they don't show any malfunction, when they open a licitly locked/encrypted file.
PMX Editor and MMM, instead, simply doesn't show the file or does't load it correctly. This is malfunction, not a safety control. Let's see a protected Adobe PDF document, for example, if you cannot figure out what I'm talking about.
Now I cannot help you if you cannot see the difference between:
a) distributing "read only" or protected files, protected from editing with tools explicitly developed to allow the distribution of edit-protected BUT WORKING documents
b) distributing files deliberately made "invalid" to cause malfunctions in the programs they work with

You are a cracker pirate, you've given out the way anyone can crack my models!
See what I've just explained. No way you can consider "cracking" the operation to restore a PMX File in its valid and standard format. This won't be important from a "how to protect your works" point of view, but it's VERY important if you stupidly defame me, accusing me to be a cracker or distributor of "how to crack" anything.
If one has cracked anything, or "exploited" the PMX format, is the program you used to make invalid the PMX file you are distributing. Not me. This, of course, just under a technical point of view. So, please, learn to use proper words instead of defaming people with foolish accuses of being "suppoerter of crackers/thieves/terrorists/etc".

The right to lock and/or deny edits
This is in my opinion the most interesting point, while the most violent and raging injures I've received for my post have come not from "modellers from scratch" but from editors, whose work is to search around for useful parts, taking them, putting them together (with or withour recolors, retexturing, shape tuning...) and then redistribute their models, so called "edits".
Here, on this point happens one of the most terrific misunderstandings about "who's owner of what". I'd suggest most of you who have injured me to re-read what's well explained on learnmmd.com, but also here on deviantart, about what rights belong to an editor, i.e. a people who uses parts made by other people.

I'm mostly an editor too. So I don't need at all your explainations and raging rants, to understand how hard is, sometimes, our work as editors. Nor I need any moral lesson by you about the right to be credited. If you had took the time to look at my gallery, before starting accusing me to kill & eat children, you'd have found a lot of posts and tutorials about the need to always respect author's rules and the need to (properly) credit the work you are using (example: fav.me/da76xcl ).

What many of you seem to ignore is that the need to credit and respect author's rules, is not a matter for final users only, but also (I'd say: above all) for you all editors, who use third party models and parts to make yours.
This matter is very simple.
The operation of editing, using third parts models, absolutely doesn't make you owner of anything.

All times you say "This model is of my own property because I've edited it and spent a lot of time to do, so I can put any rules I want on it" you're wrong.
Completely wrong, no chance to mince words about this matter.
You can (and should) be credited for your creative work as editor, of course.

But don't forget you are just an editor, not the owner of the used parts.
Don't forget you are using works made by other people who freely shared them, allowing you to use them to make new edits. You absolutely have NO (moral or legal) RIGHT to put restrictive conditions (yes I mean that ridiculous "don't edit/don't take parts/etc" rules) upon the edits you have made using free to use parts.

That's just to focus your attention on the use that most of PMX Locker fans do of this program: to illegally, illicitly "lock" what no way is of their own property, going on and going on with the terrific misunderstanding about "who's owner of what", that is really one of the most dangerous and severe matter of controversy between the japanese MMDCs and ours ones.

Japanese MMDC will now watch at us as bullshit, thanks to you!
Let's speak seriously. First of all, "JMMDC" is not a single people, it's not a borg collective mind.
There are a lot of japanese MMD modellers who never tried to raise barrirs between them and us, who never tried to prevent us modifying or editing or using their models, who never felt in that stpid password games just to deny non japanese speaking people using their models. So, please, stop wielding this ridicolous accuse as a warhammer anytime one does something not of your tastes.

One of the reasons why many japanese modellers are angry with "us" it's exactly the redistribution of edits. YOUR edits. It this sufficiently clear in your mind?
All of you crying because PMX Locker won't be so "useful" anymore "protecting" you edits, should consider how often yourselves are forcing those jap modellers to grow angry, not because I've "ruined" the magic wand of PMX Model Locker, but just because you all often make unauthorized edits, redistribute them and (also) you claim any kind of right and/or ownership upon the models you have made editing the original ones.
And then, after that, do you ALSO put an illicit "lock" on them?

Mayhaps you should take some minutes to think about what are the real reasons so many japanese modellers consider "us" as bullshit and dishonest thieves of their work.

Note: I disagree some of japanese arguments about this matter, but in final point if you first take parts from them and redistribute your edits claiming ANY KIND of "ownership" upon them, adding your own restrictive rules having no right to do it, and finally you also put a "lock" on them to say "this is mine!", well mayhaps those japanese modellers are someway right, being angry with "us".

Last but not least, the other reason why you should stop using this stupid accuse (the "right wrath" from JMMDC) anytime you see something not of your taste, is that SOME of the restrictions SOME jap users put on their models have absolutely NO relationship with what we do, but with where we were born.
That's a very frustrating and sad matter, but yes: there are racist people over the world. In Japan, in USA, in Europe, everywhere. So please stop thinking that all that japanese boys do is rightful and worth to be respected or imitated. Stupidity should never be imitated nor respected, and that's all, it doesn't matter if not respecting (or imitating) stupidity you can make SOME (please, note it! SOME, not "all") japanese modeller grow angry and so they threaten to stop distributing models.

In this scenery, the fact PMX Model Locker looses its value (if it ever had one...) has no relationship with what SOME japanese modeller thinks about "us".


Abuses, white flies & black sheeps
Coming to the point, yes. I'm a little tired to hear moral lesson and raging rants from people accusing me to have helped "thieves" because I've explained how to restore the standard file format of a supposed-to-be-locked model. Above all when this accuse comes by editors who they first don't respect any property right, who first abuses of the parts they have used to make their edits, or also who first distribute materials of "questionable" ownership and pretends to deny people to further edit them as they were owners of what they have REdistributed.


Look at HOW most of edits are redistributed. Maybe the umpteenth TDA edit.
First look at credits section. Where is it? Opppssssss. I forgot it, damn!
Do you see any proper credit section? yeeaaah. No.
It's still a miracle if some of original authors are at least mentioned, but do you understand from "credits" who the hell made what, or where to find the used parts you you wanted to reuse them without editing this model? No, again.
Now take a look at "rules" section: of couse here it's full of colored ballons, the usual "don't edit/don't take parts/don't steal/etc" formulas, put here with no right to do. Finally, try to download them and open in PMX just to fix something to your need.
Yes, you guessed it. Models are "locked".
You try to contact the author. Sorry he/she lost interest in MMD and now lives on a Himalaya peak as a monk.

Note: this is not "the only bad exception over a billions of good cases". This is the standard way editors redistribute their edited models, self-taking the right to put illicit limitations on the distributed works, self-rising theirselves at "owner level", self estabilishing theirselves that you all cannot edit what they have edited first using parts, textures or ripped model that they absolutely do not own.

Should I continue and talk about game ripped models, converted to MMD format and then redistributed? The way not only the ripped models have been "locked", not only restrictive rules have been illicitly added as the converter had any right upon it, but also that often users are forced, to download and use the model, to pass through "url shrinkers" with invasive AD campaigns to let the editor gain something?

Yes I often distribute this kind of models, taking XNA models extracted from games by other people, converting them and then tuning them for use in MMD animation software.
Take a look at my downloads and how I set the credits section of my downloadabel contents or the terms of use I specify.
You won't find ANY try to act myself as owner of ANY right upon those models. The only thing I ask users is just to be credited for the conversion and tuning work. Stop, no more.
As editor I have no right to deny anything about "ripped" models.
Certainly I have no right to gain anything, directly or not, not to "lock" what I'm distributing.

Please don't overwhelm my ears with cries about "the single black sheep over billions of white flies".
These are the standard and most common ways edits are distributed. And this is the standard way editors use PMX Model Locker trying to "lock" something they have absolutely no right to lock or deny further editing.


So what about the real owners who want to protect their works?
This is the very one matter I cannot answer. Basically I think there isn't a completely acceptable and satisfatory answer.
Ending this topic what we have got is both that PMX Model Locker had not ever been a protection for our models, and that most of MMD editors simply abuses of this program trying to "lock" models upon that they have no ownership, nor right to deny further edits.
That's not a self-assolving assertion when I say that I've "ruined" absolutely nothing (but eventually some dishonest MMD users offering their "help" in privately "unlocking" models): A single character added to make a file invalid had never been a protection for your artworks. And if you are in that vaste group of editors who should have never locked anything because they simply did't have the right to do, it should be irrelevant that PMX Locker has been revealed for being useless for you.

How to protect your original work? Don't ask me. I have no answer but that "PMX Locker" wasn't at all your safe (nor minimally safe) solution. Consider that also professional 3d modellers (architects, engineers, and so on) have a lot of difficulties to protect their rights every time they release any models of their. Even if they use professional vendors to distribute their professional models, soon or late they often see their original models illegally distributed, parts reused without authorization and so on. And please, consider that they use 3d softwares BY FAR more advanced and safe than our beloved PMX Editor.

Am I suggesting to give up? Not really. But I strongly suggest you accept the risk, when distributing your models. If you're not ready to accept this risk you probably shouldn't release anything in public. But please, also consider that there are a lot of MMD modellers who accept this risk, don't put absurdely restrictive rules and give all of you the opportunity to reuse their creations, doesn't matter if anyone recolors their models or any idiot use them for questionable videos.

Yes but some day in the future... WHAT IF a real locking would come?
This is an interesting question. What if any day in the future, a real working locking/protection will be implemented? Not a false one as in this case. An effective, licit and hardcoded system of locking PMX files preventing other people to edit PMX files and still allowing them to open in read only mode into PMX Editor, MMM and MMD?
It's not, in my opinion, a matter of technology. Coding techniques are yet available by now. Just think about how Adobe PDF documents can be protected to deny editing, selection and copy & paste features, while they still can be opened, read and printed.

As someone has said, this would open a new bright era in the MMD communities.
What I wonder is what kind of era this one would be.

What most of the editors crying today on the PMX Model Locker's grave basically don't accept and don'f face off, is that all "do not edit / do not take parts" rules, and the claim to lock models, will affect not only the final MMD user, but will affect themselves as editors.

I can imagine a MMD world where z7def had locked his models, so Nerudrum/Drumaster/Nerudora would have had not the chance to edit them and create his own wonderful models and vocaloid versions derived by z7def's ones.

I can imagine a MMD world where TDA's origina author locked his model so NONE of the thousands of derived TDA edits had existed, because editors who worked on them simply had nothing to work on, as original TDA model had been locked by the author.

I can imagine this wonderful and supposed-to-be-bright era when editors will be extincted as a category of MMD users. And when authors-from-scratch and final MMD users will be the only two categories of users in the MMD communities.

Editors who are crying, barking and raging because PMX Model Locker won't protect their works anymore (if it had ever protected them) seem to be persuaded that things would be the same for them. That they will continue searching for useable models, taking parts from other models, recoloring and putting them together, then locking their edits and distributing them now really protected.

Forget of it. The very first victims of a "some day coming" real and working lock system will be all of you editors.

Mayhaps this would mean a nice stop on the "billions of TDA recolors" passed as original edits and wonderful masterpieces of MMD art. Yes, maybe.
But this also will be the end of any reason to edit and enhance previous models. Simply because in the world and in this bright era you are invoking, where any model can be really locked and effectively protected by further edits, all of you editors will have no more work to do, as you simply will have nothing of editable to work on.

It's a questionable matter if this will be a nice era and a gain for MMD users in general. But for you editors in particular, this will be surely the end of your work. So I'd pay attention before crying and raging and barking about PMX Locker, or invoking a "safe way to protect your works from edits".

As always, constructive criticism is welcome

Related content
Comments: 117

Riveda1972 In reply to ??? [2023-06-12 06:15:40 +0000 UTC]

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

HappyHarbl [2020-06-21 03:14:37 +0000 UTC]

👍: 5 ⏩: 2

MiraiAkariFan19 In reply to HappyHarbl [2021-09-20 20:50:18 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Riveda1972 In reply to HappyHarbl [2020-06-28 19:14:19 +0000 UTC]

👍: 2 ⏩: 0

Nik-2213 [2020-05-12 02:31:14 +0000 UTC]

I don't know if intentional, but a growing number of PMX files will not open in 3DOC viewer, which either reports some variant of 'file type not recognised', or 'first polygon of first object invalid'. Both varieties load okay in PMX Editor, but re-saving from that does not clear the lock-out...

Happily, many artists provide both PMX and FBX files, making such models pleasantly portable...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

SamSquids404 [2019-10-01 02:04:58 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to SamSquids404 [2019-10-01 20:05:43 +0000 UTC]

More than PMX Locker, is the way PMX files are made "udenitable" the real whole, bacause the "solution" is not based on any kind of real crypting of the "to be locked" file, but on causing a malfunction when the model is opened in PMX Editor, no matter if the malcunction has been caused by a program like PMX Locker or manually opening the file and changing the expected character in the file header definition.

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

SamSquids404 In reply to Riveda1972 [2019-10-03 03:40:13 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to SamSquids404 [2019-10-04 10:24:08 +0000 UTC]

I didn't either know about the ROM corrupter issue

Anyway DRM matters within the MMDCs are a kind of can not to be opened as most of editors seem to have really mad ideas about what a copyright is and when it is licit to apply restrictions. More, the PMX file format is totally inadequate for a legal locking purpose. It's not the PDF format where you can licitly lock a document to prevent unauthorized editing, just to mention a valid example of DRM motivated locking. A "locked" PDF, or a password protected ZIP/RAR/.7z archive still remains usable without causing any malfunction to the programs used to open them. More, the programs themselves are made to support locking and password protection. This is not the case for MMD, PMX Editor and the PMX file format in general. MMD for example can still open "locked" (corrupted) PMX models but lags, due to the file corruption, while MMM just refuses to work with corrupted PMX models.


This is not because "only MMD is authorized while MMM is not", as some ignorant people says, but because MMM just makes a more strict check about the valid definition of the file format, while MMD has a more tolerant check (which is also the reason why a lot of corrupted and bugged models can be still opened in MMD and then MMD just crashes, immediately after loading them... this is just because MMD eats all, at the beginning, but when it tries to use the bugged model it crashes).


people so worried that their f***ing meshes of a shoes or of a hair tie shouldn't be edited, had better not use MMD at all and go using more professional 3d modeling/rendering environments (anyway even professional modelers have their own issues with illegal edits, so the whole matter is a big, stupid and useless crusade)

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

SamSquids404 In reply to Riveda1972 [2019-10-06 22:15:53 +0000 UTC]

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

KamariaK [2018-10-20 22:42:33 +0000 UTC]

I'll never understand why the MMD community has such a stick up their butt about needing to 'protect' their models or make a number of restrictive rules on how you can use it. I've also seen direct game model rips 'protected' in the way you describe, so...yeah. 

👍: 4 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to KamariaK [2018-10-21 01:30:00 +0000 UTC]

Yes the "locked" game rips conversion are my favourite

👍: 2 ⏩: 0

ButzYung [2018-08-10 08:12:43 +0000 UTC]

Finally another one of the fews who are willing to speak up concerning the MMD model editing issue commonly found in DA. I always find it amusing how some people do nothing more than editing and assembling part owned by others, some unauthorized and some even just commercial rips, and treat their "edits" as if they are really original and state all those "rules" like no edit no coloring no distribution etc etc, which basically rule out anything you can do other than simple raw rendering on the MMD program itself (not even the PMX Editor).


Don't get me wrong. Anyone does deserve credits for making edits, but banning edits is another thing. Model edits are possible because there exist some people who are willing to give out their works and contribute to the community, and it's reasonabe to think they want their edits to be editable as well. It's actually quite selfish to stop people from editing when their works are very much based on parts which are open to editing.

👍: 3 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to ButzYung [2018-08-10 23:40:30 +0000 UTC]

I agree. Thanks for your words

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

Bco1981 [2018-05-17 09:53:09 +0000 UTC]

As soon as i had the PMX-locker tool, i tested it out on a model and did a very quick hex comparison, and it didn't take me 5 minutes to find out how to undo a "lock". But i have recently discovered 2 models that this method does not work on them.

The only reason i unlock a model is if there is obvious errors like transparency on a dress, and if you unfortunately have a low angle the model can apear to be not wearing panties or something else "disapears" in the transparency. That or other obvious mistakes like a texture is missing shadows.
It's far from every editor that takes kindly to being informed of simple errors like this. So i have given up and just fix the models i have.

A lot of models even have double physics even triple. That will kill your framerate, fast.

👍: 2 ⏩: 2

Riveda1972 In reply to Bco1981 [2018-09-21 15:55:02 +0000 UTC]

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

EilaKasai In reply to Bco1981 [2018-07-16 23:30:29 +0000 UTC]

Did you ever figure out a way to unlock those models? 
I'm struggling with the same issue.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Bco1981 In reply to EilaKasai [2018-07-17 04:47:14 +0000 UTC]

Unfortunately no, i have put the models aside for when i get new ideas and maybe understand the pmx file format a bit better.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

EilaKasai In reply to Bco1981 [2018-07-17 14:10:40 +0000 UTC]

I see, I see!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Bco1981 In reply to EilaKasai [2018-09-22 11:11:59 +0000 UTC]

Thanks to Riveda1972 new article i have finally gotten my model opened.

The model wasn't "damaged" or "locked" it was too new for the pmxeditor i used (0.2.2.2_t1.1)
so getting the latest version PmxEditor_0254f.zip and now i can finally open the model i couldn't open before.

You can get it here kkhk22.seesaa.net/category/140… search for "PmxEditor_0254f.zip"
This version is in japanese. There isn't a english translation yet as far as i have been able to find.

Load the model in the new version, select PMX version 2.0 and save the model.
Now i can use the model in the english translated version.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

EilaKasai In reply to Bco1981 [2018-09-22 12:38:36 +0000 UTC]

Huh, that's a strange error, I'll make sure to try it out!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

MinaliAjaebixTsuki [2018-04-05 23:41:28 +0000 UTC]

mistress: lol why do i keep bumping into your work when i search up random stuff on MMD??? Lol but nice this is pretty good thing to do. To be honest :0 but geez that is one long ass paragraph just to get one point across smh -~-"..Sigh feel bad that you have to explain bit by bit to ignorant ass people. Like just why? This is just crazy dude x.x"

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to MinaliAjaebixTsuki [2018-09-21 15:55:47 +0000 UTC]

Don't know why you're bumping to me but you're welcome

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

anmayvuong [2018-03-30 11:52:40 +0000 UTC]

I want MMD Kotori itsuka?  well... i dont know why but i have tried your trick and it did work with many models but not this one... It's very strange...

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to anmayvuong [2018-09-21 15:56:06 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

anmayvuong [2018-03-30 11:01:45 +0000 UTC]

I want MMD Kotori itsuka?  well... i dont know why but i have tried your trick and it did work with many models but not this one... It's very strange...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Lance97 [2018-03-27 13:30:03 +0000 UTC]

..... just passing by,  Can I ask who is this character,  the outfit and pose looks very nice.
Is she from a fighting game?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to Lance97 [2018-03-29 12:14:28 +0000 UTC]

Actually she's a MMD character called "Black dagger" I work on when I have spare time to waste
yes it's partially converted from other game models. The face is a hardly edited DOA5 Sarah Bruant. The catsuit is a modded version of the Arkham series Catwoman costume. Other elements from various models

You can see her in action: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABRoya…

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Lance97 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-03-29 18:34:54 +0000 UTC]

Thanks  for the detailed explanation.    it's more like a orginal design if you say so,  
it looks like a air-fighter pilot or starship pilot to me.  Cool and sexy.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to Lance97 [2018-03-30 19:53:23 +0000 UTC]

Yes the look is that, but I thought about her as a professional killer more than a pilot

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Jadedalicorn [2018-02-27 18:46:07 +0000 UTC]

I run a crossed a mmd model that was a big disappointment one it did have a lock on it
anthe other is it was a basic tda miku edit but not miku and the clothes came from devaintart
you know some of those dressed headless tda bodies it had one of those outfits on it..

I could understand if they made the clothes but a basic low brow tda miku edit  being locked
is sort of a joke the only good point of the model is at least it loaded ok in the mmd program.

The big thing is all the hard work I had to go threw to get another tda miku edit was to be some anime character from date live or some thing  never got into that anime..

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

Riveda1972 In reply to Jadedalicorn [2018-02-28 05:28:39 +0000 UTC]

I agree

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

XxxFaZeBearxxX [2018-02-16 16:01:10 +0000 UTC]

OK, I might sound like an ass, but here we go.

Personally, you should lock a model if:

1. it's made from scratch and you don't want people editing it

2. If it has a part made from scratch and you don't want people editing or taking said part(s)

3. It has a commision outfit and you don't want people using that outfit for free.

Other than that, locking is kinda bullshit. I mean, I understand that some model editors/ creators don't want people taking parts or editing, but there will always be someone trying to fuck your rules over.

Thank you, and have a nice day/ evening.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Kaesesauce [2018-01-25 22:25:42 +0000 UTC]

To be honest, If they upload their work as DL, they should know that there will always be someone who takes parts from you/the model you made/edited. And there will always be people who find out how to unlock a model.
I mean no disrespect, but this is a risk the owners and editors took. If of course no one uploads the models and only posts pictures of what they made- no one could steal it (If any only remake it but that wouldn't be the same model, so..). 

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Riveda1972 In reply to Kaesesauce [2018-01-26 09:20:48 +0000 UTC]

I agree. There is an issue here, infact.

1) the desire of people to protect their work (when they have the right to)
2) The false idea that corrupting a file format adding a character in the file header definition was a protection
3) The amount of people having no right to "lock" anything as they do not own at all what they are redistributing

People excluded from these cases, the real authors who have some right to decide what to distribute, what to limit and what rules (better: terms of use) have to be respected using a model, have the same problem of professional modellers: to distribute or to not distribute their contents?

There is no real answer for this question. ANY 3d file format can be edited/modified once it has been downloaded.

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DiR3C7H4CK In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-28 03:39:59 +0000 UTC]

I'm agree to. However, despites it's a big problem, I believe there is a real answer for that question. the modelers can distribute their contents ¿What law of physics forbides it?
Besides, there is a way to demonstrate strictly and in a extremely solid way who's the true and original author of a model: watching not only where was uploaded the model and the first user who uploaded it, but also the DATE of upload (and of the website article too)

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Riveda1972 In reply to DiR3C7H4CK [2018-01-28 15:53:49 +0000 UTC]

Yes you're right

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Rina55 [2018-01-14 07:20:06 +0000 UTC]

You know how you're worried about locking models causing editors to die off?
well, you've sped up the process.
slowly, no one will distribute their models anymore.
I already don't.
and editors will have nothing to edit.
I hope you're happy you're speeding up the demise of this community and tearing it further apart.

I wish you'd just understand how important this community is...to people like me.
I grew up with this community, and it's idiots like you who are tearing us apart.
my friends are leaving.
and it's because of people like you.

why can't you just understand that?

this community is home to me,
and I wanted to be able to give back to it when I had the skill.
I have the skill, and I can't give back to it.
because no one would respect me as a human being.
who has feelings.
who spent so much of my time making a gift for you.
you shouldn't stomp on gifts people give you.

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SamSquids404 In reply to Rina55 [2019-10-01 01:55:06 +0000 UTC]

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Riveda1972 In reply to Rina55 [2018-01-14 11:58:04 +0000 UTC]

Editor would die off the day when PMX files had been REALLY locked as they would have nothing to edit, as original modellers locked all their file and editors have nothing to use for their edits.
I've explained this point more and more, but it seems that some people don't understand that editing third party's works absolutely don't give the permission to lock any derived work
You found freely editable contents, you use them, and then you pretend to lock what you have found as free?

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Rina55 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-14 18:52:59 +0000 UTC]

Hidden by Owner

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SamSquids404 In reply to Rina55 [2019-10-01 01:57:47 +0000 UTC]

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SteelDollS [2017-09-30 14:28:32 +0000 UTC]

I love and crave publicly available model downloads, but the fact of the matter is that a vocal majority all of the MMDC does not seem to understand the concept of responsibility from the side of the model providers. The way the MMDC in popularity works now, is to project blame for everything onto the end user, when realistically, MMD is by nature a joint venture.

There are a number of things that model providers *should* do before releasing a model publicly for download. Creating and supplying a detailed credits list (for parts, textures, or anything else that contributed to the model), testing the model, running validations... and deciding if the model is suitable for public download.

I mean, yes. It's great to be idealistic and say "if I prefer people do not edit or recolor my model for their personal use, then no one should do it, period!" but the reality is that publicly available models MAY end up being edited by a small percentage of users, regardless of personal preference to the contrary. Period. Whether it's realistic to expect people to not edit, or unrealistic to expect it is beside the point. The point is that it is setting the situation up for failure, if any person expects something to be 100% when it's unrealistic to expect so, save for in an ideal.

Really, if people do not want their models edited and want to be entirely sure of this, the only way to go is NOT to put the model up for public consumption. There are plenty of MMD users that do not share their model edits publicly who find that because this is important to them, their MMD lives are enriched by not worrying about edits happening.

tl;dr

It's kind of like putting a box of kittens at the side of the road by your house, writing a sign in permanent marker on a piece of cardboard reading, "Free for the taking! Kittens! Available to anyone! The rules of taking a kitten are: You may not dress the kitten in tiny clothes. You may not let the kitten have an operation at the vet if one of its paws stops working. You have to let me know if you take the kitten anywhere and show it to anyone in a public setting. Follow the rules or do not take the kitten."

Granted, a kitten is a living creature. But once you hand the kitten over, if it needs vet work to be a happy kitten, you can expect that a number of kitten takers will indeed take it to the vet despite your preference. The only ways to make sure of it not happening is to keep the kitten yourself, or only give it to people who don't believe in tiny kitten clothes or vet operations, and make a personal promise to you to treat the kitten as you wish.

In the same way, a rule of "do not decapitate kitten and leave kitten head on front door of Grotesque Romance love interest" might be ignored by others as well, and once you hand a kitten over, without even looking to see if the person you're blindly allowing to take the kitten looks like a kitten serial murderer... that's not just on them. It's a team effort. To ignore that is irresponsible and unrealistic. (Granted, kitten heads and MMD model headswaps... not even in the same ballpark when it comes to actual D:-ness )


Beyond that, saying "don't edit" is kind of a crappy thing to do; it stagnates the MMDC's creations. Think about if TDA suddenly said, "yeah, nobody use my model parts for editing anymore." The death of an editing generation in this fandom. There's responsibility for publicly available stuff. On the provider's end, to have reasonable expectations, credit where needed, and not be a jerk; on the user's end, to try to be respectful where reasonable, credit where needed, and create something new and cool with what the provider made originally available.

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Runzi333 In reply to SteelDollS [2018-01-14 21:09:59 +0000 UTC]

Learn to create your own shit and add to the community. If the art community randomly allowed stolen and traced art because "it expands the community" there would be no more artists, They would stop posting like many in this community already have and all you would see is recycled bases.

Modelers are nice enough to let you assholes use things they spent hours creating with knowledge they spent years cultivating and your response is give me more for free? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?! Everything can be stolen so it should and that's what they should expect for being generous??????? Making even a simple model takes days and sometimes years to learn the program and you feel entitled to it because they were kind enough to let you use it? That makes you a giant jerk.

This community used to be grateful for the wonderful modelers who spent time and energy creating great things for others to use for free but now its all entitled lazy assholes who think modelers should just give them all of their time and energy for nothing and EXPECT disrespect in return. When no one makes models for MMD any more and all you have is old edits this will be why. People who feel like because they have access they have the right to all of it. Enjoy this while it lasts because disrespect to this level is why most modelers won't release their stuff and many more won't as time goes on.

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SamSquids404 In reply to Runzi333 [2019-10-01 01:38:13 +0000 UTC]

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SteelDollS In reply to Runzi333 [2018-01-15 19:40:56 +0000 UTC]

Wait what?

...You're replying to me as if your reply is directed at me. Yet the arguments you're making have NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE.

I mean, I could try to respond, but it would be a waste of my time. So have some emoticons that encompass my full response to your random wtf rant. (BTW thanks for all the swearing, I collect cuss words and store them in a jar under your mom's bed.)
     

                                                                

                                                                                                 
 

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Runzi333 In reply to SteelDollS [2018-01-17 15:29:22 +0000 UTC]

Re read what you said because I promise you I'm making sense.

"I mean, yes. It's great to be idealistic and say "if I prefer people do not edit or recolor my model for their personal use, then no one should do it, period!" but the reality is that publicly available models MAY end up being edited by a small percentage of users, regardless of personal preference to the contrary. Period. Whether it's realistic to expect people to not edit, or unrealistic to expect it is beside the point. The point is that it is setting the situation up for failure, if any person expects something to be 100% when it's unrealistic to expect so, save for in an ideal."

This says why bother making rules because some people will break them anyway. To which I responded with my rant about respecting modelers time and energy.

Also if you want to be taken seriously don't reply so childishly because swearing upset you. I'm not going to reply again but please think more seriously about how you are treating others who make you things for free.

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SteelDollS In reply to Runzi333 [2018-01-17 22:53:00 +0000 UTC]

No, in fact, it does not say that. You are apparently interpreting what I said to suit your views. I suggest you re-read what I typed again and take it literally.

Your swearing didn't upset me; it just made it appear you were not worth my while to try to talk to. Swearing in a public forum does not indicate mutual respect or a desire to discuss things. You are entitled to your opinion. But you're not entitled to act like you did and expect no consequences from it. In this case, the consequence being that I identified where you were wrong and determined from your language you aren't looking for a debate; you are looking to blow up at someone. And you're looking to do it after twisting and slanting my own words to try to make them what you want them to be, instead of what they are.

However in case I am wrong- which would be nice, but I'm starting off with a poor first impression of the likelihood of that- about you, let me reiterate: It is unrealistic to expect 100% of people to follow rules. It doesn't matter what the rules are. It doesn't matter if they are real rules with the law behind them or social rules with only disapproval behind "breaking" them.

Me stating this fact doesn't make it my opinion; it's simple fact. Anyone not liking that fact, does not change that fact. Additionally, I feel the need to point out that much of the time, those who makes those rules? don't have the authority to actually make them. Case in point: Animasa recolors stating "do not edit or recolor" ... Edits made with parts that are free to use, with rules of "do not take parts"... These are examples and should not be taken to be the whole of it. I'm not making a black and white argument either for or against this topic. I'm mentioning reality, not trying to argue something into existence. This is how it is.

Just because I state the fact that things happen sometimes which people (creators or consumers) do not like, and that they should, as a matter of reality, anticipate at least a little bit of these things happening, simply because of human nature, doesn't mean that making your desires known is useless. Most people go out of their way to respect others' desires unless they are unrealistic, too difficult to indulge, are directly against their own legal rights, and/or, more frequently, they just didn't notice the statements. There's a lot of common sense that happens, and sometimes not so much.

But at the end of the day, that conversation still has nothing to do with PMX Locker. Because the locker does not keep rules in tact. The function of breaking a model doesn't keep it from having rules broken. Explaining how it works and why, does not increase rules being broken. It just doesn't work that way. Even if the premise is towards that; to think that actually functions in the way it's wished to be, is flat out incorrect.

PS- Calling people on the internet childish is childish itself. Seriously; you should stop that if you want anyone to respect you. I'm childish plenty everywhere else but in a serious discussion; I don't feel desperate enough to release my inner child here. Otherwise, I'd be ending this with a Sakamoto Salt stamp... oh wait


...no, must resist.

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Riveda1972 In reply to Runzi333 [2018-01-15 05:43:48 +0000 UTC]

As said above I don't need to "learn" anythins as I make "my own shit" yet, both as scratch modeller and as editor
Just take a look at my MMD DL gallery, please, before starting to bark this way. Thanks

BTW, this matter (modelling and giving out models for free, with rules and need to be credited) has nothing to do with making pmx files invalid/corrupted and to pass this file corruption as "locking" or "preventing art theft".

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Runzi333 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-17 15:26:17 +0000 UTC]

People lock to keep other from breaking their rules don't play dumb. I'm not going to explain myself to someone who doesn't care and has been super transphobic in the comments. We are done here. Have a nice life.

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