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#credits #locker #mmd #model #pmx #mikumikudance #pmxeditor
Published: 2017-08-28 14:09:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 22161; Favourites: 157; Downloads: 355
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... or why I explode in a big (and SAD) laugh when you say that I would have ruined the MMDCHi again, friends and haters
I've had 2 or 3 days to study this matter deeper, after my so largely condamned and commented post about "how to unlock" PMX file that have been "locked" using PMX Model Locker (or manually changing a character in the file header definition)
Read it here as reference: fav.me/dbl8r2i
Really when I did it I hadn't forecasted what kind of reactions it would have caused. It has been, at the beginnig, just the consequence of a very banal comparison between a PMX file "locked" with PMX Model Locker and a standard working PMX file.
I've immediately realized the only difference was that "dirty character" in the header definition. But it seems that I've given away the Coca Cola secret recipe, causing an economic and ethical disaster to the MMD community. Even if there were tutorials yet about how to restore a "locked" model to its working version.
I've used past few days to go on studying the matter. And I'd like to share what I've understood.
I've found a good scheme of the file structure here:
gist.github.com/felixjones/f8a…
A trouble with PMX file format is that is not really and officially documented. The only documentation (at least in english) is the one I've mentioned, and as far as I see, it's resulting by empirical experiences of modellers and editors, and by reverse engineering. Regardless of the origins of the documentation, it's almost complete, and surely at least complete to allow programmers developing any kind of plugins or stand-alone programs to manage this file format.
What I'm focus on is the header definition of the file. As specified, a valid PMX file must have "PMX " in the first 4 characters, including the space after "PMX".
I.e. the 4th character must be a space, for a PMX file to be considered valid and editable by PMX Editor or useable in MMM (Miku Miku Moving, alternate animation program similar to MMD).
The reason why MMD open "locked" PMX file is a still discussed matter. Some people have suggested it's because both PMX editor and MMM use .Net framework. I'm not persuaded about this suggestion. It's not a matter of what framework you use, when you open a file anche check for its format. The confirm is in some tests I've done yesterday.
You can download, here on the right, a simple, stupid model done for fun and just to explain this matter so you can make a test by yourself.
It's a square shape with just a texture on it. (DON'T STEAL PARTS! ... fun)
It comes in different version: the standard one, the one I've "locked" using PMX Model Locker, the one I've "unlocked" editing the "locked" one with an hexadecimal editor, and finally what I really find interesting: two versions where the 4th character (blank space in a working PMX file) has been replaced not by the "locker" character (ꁘ, hex code A0, ASCII value 160) but by other characters, precisely the "@" and the "©" characters. I've intentionally used two standard ASCII character just to exclude any interferences by a non standard charset. Simply try to open them if you wish to make a test.
You'll see that in both cases PMX Editor will refuse to edit them. MMD, instead, will still correctly load and use them, regardless they contains an unexpected character in 4th position instead of the "suppesed to be a locking character" (ꁘ).
Well, let's say this confirms my persuasion that "supposed-to-be-locked" PMX files are not really to be considered "locked" but just invalid/corrupted files. The only reason MMD loads and use them is that evidently MMD just checks the first 3 character, only to control if the file is a PMD or PMX one, simply ignoring what follows, then it proceeds checking other fields to load shapes, textures, weights and skeleton structure, morphs and so on.
So what? Locked or ivalidated it's the same thing!Nevermind. I find this point very important. Any editing program supporting security locking to prevent further unauthorized edits, has behaviors that "supposed-to-be-locked" PMX files don't have at all.
First, no "edit locked" file would have just a character to mark it as "read only". They all use any kind of inner encryption to prevent unauthorized people editing it.
And most important, programs within they are used can recognize the encryption/locking and simply prevent the edit, but all of them allow you to open and use, preventing you only to edit and save any change. Absolutely they don't show any malfunction, when they open a licitly locked/encrypted file.
PMX Editor and MMM, instead, simply doesn't show the file or does't load it correctly. This is malfunction, not a safety control. Let's see a protected Adobe PDF document, for example, if you cannot figure out what I'm talking about.
Now I cannot help you if you cannot see the difference between:
a) distributing "read only" or protected files, protected from editing with tools explicitly developed to allow the distribution of edit-protected BUT WORKING documents
b) distributing files deliberately made "invalid" to cause malfunctions in the programs they work with
See what I've just explained. No way you can consider "cracking" the operation to restore a PMX File in its valid and standard format. This won't be important from a "how to protect your works" point of view, but it's VERY important if you stupidly defame me, accusing me to be a cracker or distributor of "how to crack" anything.
If one has cracked anything, or "exploited" the PMX format, is the program you used to make invalid the PMX file you are distributing. Not me. This, of course, just under a technical point of view. So, please, learn to use proper words instead of defaming people with foolish accuses of being "suppoerter of crackers/thieves/terrorists/etc".The right to lock and/or deny edits
This is in my opinion the most interesting point, while the most violent and raging injures I've received for my post have come not from "modellers from scratch" but from editors, whose work is to search around for useful parts, taking them, putting them together (with or withour recolors, retexturing, shape tuning...) and then redistribute their models, so called "edits".
Here, on this point happens one of the most terrific misunderstandings about "who's owner of what". I'd suggest most of you who have injured me to re-read what's well explained on learnmmd.com, but also here on deviantart, about what rights belong to an editor, i.e. a people who uses parts made by other people.
I'm mostly an editor too. So I don't need at all your explainations and raging rants, to understand how hard is, sometimes, our work as editors. Nor I need any moral lesson by you about the right to be credited. If you had took the time to look at my gallery, before starting accusing me to kill & eat children, you'd have found a lot of posts and tutorials about the need to always respect author's rules and the need to (properly) credit the work you are using (example: fav.me/da76xcl ).
What many of you seem to ignore is that the need to credit and respect author's rules, is not a matter for final users only, but also (I'd say: above all) for you all editors, who use third party models and parts to make yours.
This matter is very simple.
The operation of editing, using third parts models, absolutely doesn't make you owner of anything.
All times you say "This model is of my own property because I've edited it and spent a lot of time to do, so I can put any rules I want on it" you're wrong.
Completely wrong, no chance to mince words about this matter.
You can (and should) be credited for your creative work as editor, of course.
But don't forget you are just an editor, not the owner of the used parts.
Don't forget you are using works made by other people who freely shared them, allowing you to use them to make new edits. You absolutely have NO (moral or legal) RIGHT to put restrictive conditions (yes I mean that ridiculous "don't edit/don't take parts/etc" rules) upon the edits you have made using free to use parts.
That's just to focus your attention on the use that most of PMX Locker fans do of this program: to illegally, illicitly "lock" what no way is of their own property, going on and going on with the terrific misunderstanding about "who's owner of what", that is really one of the most dangerous and severe matter of controversy between the japanese MMDCs and ours ones.
Japanese MMDC will now watch at us as bullshit, thanks to you!Let's speak seriously. First of all, "JMMDC" is not a single people, it's not a borg collective mind.
There are a lot of japanese MMD modellers who never tried to raise barrirs between them and us, who never tried to prevent us modifying or editing or using their models, who never felt in that stpid password games just to deny non japanese speaking people using their models. So, please, stop wielding this ridicolous accuse as a warhammer anytime one does something not of your tastes.
One of the reasons why many japanese modellers are angry with "us" it's exactly the redistribution of edits. YOUR edits. It this sufficiently clear in your mind?
All of you crying because PMX Locker won't be so "useful" anymore "protecting" you edits, should consider how often yourselves are forcing those jap modellers to grow angry, not because I've "ruined" the magic wand of PMX Model Locker, but just because you all often make unauthorized edits, redistribute them and (also) you claim any kind of right and/or ownership upon the models you have made editing the original ones.
And then, after that, do you ALSO put an illicit "lock" on them?
Mayhaps you should take some minutes to think about what are the real reasons so many japanese modellers consider "us" as bullshit and dishonest thieves of their work.
Note: I disagree some of japanese arguments about this matter, but in final point if you first take parts from them and redistribute your edits claiming ANY KIND of "ownership" upon them, adding your own restrictive rules having no right to do it, and finally you also put a "lock" on them to say "this is mine!", well mayhaps those japanese modellers are someway right, being angry with "us".
Last but not least, the other reason why you should stop using this stupid accuse (the "right wrath" from JMMDC) anytime you see something not of your taste, is that SOME of the restrictions SOME jap users put on their models have absolutely NO relationship with what we do, but with where we were born.
That's a very frustrating and sad matter, but yes: there are racist people over the world. In Japan, in USA, in Europe, everywhere. So please stop thinking that all that japanese boys do is rightful and worth to be respected or imitated. Stupidity should never be imitated nor respected, and that's all, it doesn't matter if not respecting (or imitating) stupidity you can make SOME (please, note it! SOME, not "all") japanese modeller grow angry and so they threaten to stop distributing models.
In this scenery, the fact PMX Model Locker looses its value (if it ever had one...) has no relationship with what SOME japanese modeller thinks about "us".
Coming to the point, yes. I'm a little tired to hear moral lesson and raging rants from people accusing me to have helped "thieves" because I've explained how to restore the standard file format of a supposed-to-be-locked model. Above all when this accuse comes by editors who they first don't respect any property right, who first abuses of the parts they have used to make their edits, or also who first distribute materials of "questionable" ownership and pretends to deny people to further edit them as they were owners of what they have REdistributed.
Look at HOW most of edits are redistributed. Maybe the umpteenth TDA edit.
First look at credits section. Where is it? Opppssssss. I forgot it, damn!
Do you see any proper credit section? yeeaaah. No.
It's still a miracle if some of original authors are at least mentioned, but do you understand from "credits" who the hell made what, or where to find the used parts you you wanted to reuse them without editing this model? No, again.
Now take a look at "rules" section: of couse here it's full of colored ballons, the usual "don't edit/don't take parts/don't steal/etc" formulas, put here with no right to do. Finally, try to download them and open in PMX just to fix something to your need.
Yes, you guessed it. Models are "locked".
You try to contact the author. Sorry he/she lost interest in MMD and now lives on a Himalaya peak as a monk.
Note: this is not "the only bad exception over a billions of good cases". This is the standard way editors redistribute their edited models, self-taking the right to put illicit limitations on the distributed works, self-rising theirselves at "owner level", self estabilishing theirselves that you all cannot edit what they have edited first using parts, textures or ripped model that they absolutely do not own.
Should I continue and talk about game ripped models, converted to MMD format and then redistributed? The way not only the ripped models have been "locked", not only restrictive rules have been illicitly added as the converter had any right upon it, but also that often users are forced, to download and use the model, to pass through "url shrinkers" with invasive AD campaigns to let the editor gain something?
Yes I often distribute this kind of models, taking XNA models extracted from games by other people, converting them and then tuning them for use in MMD animation software.
Take a look at my downloads and how I set the credits section of my downloadabel contents or the terms of use I specify.
You won't find ANY try to act myself as owner of ANY right upon those models. The only thing I ask users is just to be credited for the conversion and tuning work. Stop, no more.
As editor I have no right to deny anything about "ripped" models.
Certainly I have no right to gain anything, directly or not, not to "lock" what I'm distributing.
Please don't overwhelm my ears with cries about "the single black sheep over billions of white flies".
These are the standard and most common ways edits are distributed. And this is the standard way editors use PMX Model Locker trying to "lock" something they have absolutely no right to lock or deny further editing.
This is the very one matter I cannot answer. Basically I think there isn't a completely acceptable and satisfatory answer.
Ending this topic what we have got is both that PMX Model Locker had not ever been a protection for our models, and that most of MMD editors simply abuses of this program trying to "lock" models upon that they have no ownership, nor right to deny further edits.
That's not a self-assolving assertion when I say that I've "ruined" absolutely nothing (but eventually some dishonest MMD users offering their "help" in privately "unlocking" models): A single character added to make a file invalid had never been a protection for your artworks. And if you are in that vaste group of editors who should have never locked anything because they simply did't have the right to do, it should be irrelevant that PMX Locker has been revealed for being useless for you.
How to protect your original work? Don't ask me. I have no answer but that "PMX Locker" wasn't at all your safe (nor minimally safe) solution. Consider that also professional 3d modellers (architects, engineers, and so on) have a lot of difficulties to protect their rights every time they release any models of their. Even if they use professional vendors to distribute their professional models, soon or late they often see their original models illegally distributed, parts reused without authorization and so on. And please, consider that they use 3d softwares BY FAR more advanced and safe than our beloved PMX Editor.
Am I suggesting to give up? Not really. But I strongly suggest you accept the risk, when distributing your models. If you're not ready to accept this risk you probably shouldn't release anything in public. But please, also consider that there are a lot of MMD modellers who accept this risk, don't put absurdely restrictive rules and give all of you the opportunity to reuse their creations, doesn't matter if anyone recolors their models or any idiot use them for questionable videos.
This is an interesting question. What if any day in the future, a real working locking/protection will be implemented? Not a false one as in this case. An effective, licit and hardcoded system of locking PMX files preventing other people to edit PMX files and still allowing them to open in read only mode into PMX Editor, MMM and MMD?
It's not, in my opinion, a matter of technology. Coding techniques are yet available by now. Just think about how Adobe PDF documents can be protected to deny editing, selection and copy & paste features, while they still can be opened, read and printed.
As someone has said, this would open a new bright era in the MMD communities.
What I wonder is what kind of era this one would be.
What most of the editors crying today on the PMX Model Locker's grave basically don't accept and don'f face off, is that all "do not edit / do not take parts" rules, and the claim to lock models, will affect not only the final MMD user, but will affect themselves as editors.
I can imagine a MMD world where z7def had locked his models, so Nerudrum/Drumaster/Nerudora would have had not the chance to edit them and create his own wonderful models and vocaloid versions derived by z7def's ones.
I can imagine a MMD world where TDA's origina author locked his model so NONE of the thousands of derived TDA edits had existed, because editors who worked on them simply had nothing to work on, as original TDA model had been locked by the author.
I can imagine this wonderful and supposed-to-be-bright era when editors will be extincted as a category of MMD users. And when authors-from-scratch and final MMD users will be the only two categories of users in the MMD communities.
Editors who are crying, barking and raging because PMX Model Locker won't protect their works anymore (if it had ever protected them) seem to be persuaded that things would be the same for them. That they will continue searching for useable models, taking parts from other models, recoloring and putting them together, then locking their edits and distributing them now really protected.
Forget of it. The very first victims of a "some day coming" real and working lock system will be all of you editors.
Mayhaps this would mean a nice stop on the "billions of TDA recolors" passed as original edits and wonderful masterpieces of MMD art. Yes, maybe.
But this also will be the end of any reason to edit and enhance previous models. Simply because in the world and in this bright era you are invoking, where any model can be really locked and effectively protected by further edits, all of you editors will have no more work to do, as you simply will have nothing of editable to work on.
It's a questionable matter if this will be a nice era and a gain for MMD users in general. But for you editors in particular, this will be surely the end of your work. So I'd pay attention before crying and raging and barking about PMX Locker, or invoking a "safe way to protect your works from edits".
As always, constructive criticism is welcome
Related content
Comments: 117
Riveda1972 In reply to ??? [2018-01-17 15:40:53 +0000 UTC]
I'm afraid whoever had persuaded you that PMX locker protected anything, had made fun of you.
People respect rules because they decide to respect them, because it's right to respect them.
People not respecting rules are from two different categories:
1) Those who are too less experienced to know what they are doing
2) Those who don't care at all to respect rules
The second ones were motivated enough and skilled enough to break your "supposed to be protected" files by a long time ago and were never prevented in breaking rules by corrupting the PMX format.
The only one people PMX locker helped were the one offering their help to "unlock" models for the people of the first category, the less experienced ones: asking them money, DA points or models in exchange.
I'm seriously starting wondering how many, over the people who insulted me for this post, are just those funny people who gained money offering to "unlocking" models since now.
I suppose the ones whose "pay-me-to-unlock-that-model" games have been ruined, mayhaps have some reasons to be upset with me
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JaraLowell In reply to ??? [2017-09-24 02:53:29 +0000 UTC]
While there would be a form of need to protect intellectual property, in end i think, the editing and manipulating of model data, is what keeps and makes it as popular as it is. Or least those that make movies with the models, we have our visions, and at times; need to adjust certain parts to befit the vision of the movie clip we make. That said, grabbing parts to then put back out without even a little notice of recognition towards the real creator, is bad to.
On a side note, while the idea is good to 'lock files' fear i have to say, it does not work at all, perhaps on older pmx editors but on 0.2.5.2 it opens them just fine. It does state the file is corrupted, but prompts you with an 'do you want to repair', but after that, is opens it just fine. Same as MMD opens it and i would presume, MMM opens it just fine to.
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SamSquids404 In reply to JaraLowell [2019-10-01 01:16:41 +0000 UTC]
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HarukaSakurai [2017-09-02 21:22:06 +0000 UTC]
Every modeler doesn't have a no editing rule, so how would real locking cause editors to go "extinct"?
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SteelDollS In reply to HarukaSakurai [2017-09-30 14:32:21 +0000 UTC]
It wouldn't.
(If it did, they'd be extinct already, since this "lock" thing itself is still rather new, in the scheme of MMD.)
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SamSquids404 In reply to SteelDollS [2019-10-01 02:01:01 +0000 UTC]
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SteelDollS In reply to SamSquids404 [2019-10-21 22:10:03 +0000 UTC]
Truth.
...Unless the community was angsty teens and bored house-spouses in their 30s. Then an ANTI-community would, by the laws of nature, pop up overnight. FACT!
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Riveda1972 In reply to HarukaSakurai [2017-09-02 23:04:29 +0000 UTC]
Simply because most of serious authors knew that was no way a real lock, they never locked.
In second point, it sound ever "odd" when editors take freely useable contents to make their edited works and then they pretend to put restrictive conditions upon the parts they have used.
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Darknessmagician [2017-09-01 08:31:13 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, I agree with why people lock their model up, because of rules breaker. Well I think the lock only reasonable on a full model. If the one who upload the separate part like dress, pants,..., it suppose to be editable. Well I only dl a face, a base and clothes to put up model of course, and I will edit those parts when necessary. But isn't now the TDA base are everywhere? Even if TDA lock his model up, the base still there. So I think editor still there to use the TDA base to put up a new model.
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Riveda1972 In reply to Darknessmagician [2017-09-02 23:08:46 +0000 UTC]
In the scenery I've imagined, a real locking system would need a new definition for PMX file format, by its hard bases. This will set up, in my opinion, a situation where "old" PMX models will be not compatible with the new one format. I.e. this could cause what in programming slang we call "a fork", with part of the MMD communities still using old PMX format and old versions of MMD/PMXE/etc to manage them, and another part using the new ones, supporting the protected format.
This could be, in my opinion, another reason to not pray for a day when PMX format will be really lockable.
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DiR3C7H4CK In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-28 03:59:10 +0000 UTC]
I'm agree with you, Riveda
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Supurreme [2017-08-31 18:19:23 +0000 UTC]
i make my outfits from scratch so fucking excuse me if i want to lock them so people cant tear them apart
what the hell is your problem, seriously
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SamSquids404 In reply to Supurreme [2019-10-01 01:29:53 +0000 UTC]
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Riveda1972 In reply to Supurreme [2017-09-02 23:02:14 +0000 UTC]
I'm sorry to negate your illusion, but PMX Locker wouldn't lock absolutely nothing, just make models malfunctioning.
Believe me, I understand the rage when our parts are used without authorization, but I suggest you to face off this trouble and accept it as natural when you choose to distribute ANYTHING of your own property over the net.
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Rina55 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-14 07:15:14 +0000 UTC]
if you understand the rage, why are you making it easier for people to break rules?
locking models doesn't make them buggy.
at all.
that means it was just a buggy model that was locked.
locking has no effect on making a model buggy.
I should know.
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SamSquids404 In reply to Rina55 [2019-10-01 01:31:48 +0000 UTC]
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Riveda1972 In reply to Rina55 [2018-01-14 11:58:49 +0000 UTC]
I've explained your question more times.
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Runzi333 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-14 21:11:59 +0000 UTC]
No you've given BS answers that don't fly. Just because you are capable of stealing something doesn't make it acceptable. Make your own shit or stop complaining when people give you something for free with rules.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Riveda1972 In reply to Runzi333 [2018-01-15 05:35:19 +0000 UTC]
AS you can see here riveda1972.deviantart.com/gall… I make "my own shit" yet. You'll notice I both make models from scratch and edit third party models respecting all of original modeller's rules.
As you can see here
[MMD] Giving credits: the right way (updated)Giving credits to original authors, modellers, editors and/or copyright owners is one of the most sensible matters for any MMD user. It's also, to be honest, one of the most boring operations, in particular if you have used a lot of parts, accessories, models and contents from third parties and you have not kept a trace of where you've taken what. But it's a necessary operation.
I won't spend words about ethic reasons to credit. If you have ever edited, modelled, rigged a model or a part useable in MMD, you simply know how many time you've spent to allow other people use your contents. If you have not, simply try to imagine it and ask yourself this: "Shall I be happy when I see my work, put for free download on the net, used by anyone who neither thanks me, neither tells other people who made the original work?". It's a fairplay matter, more and before than a "copyright" matter.
But I'd like just to explain HOW to credit, not WHY to do it.
Supposing you KNOW and/or REMEMBER where you g
this is what I think about crediting and other copyrights matter and this is the way I work both as author and editor
As you can see here, the very only issue I had with an author, even if I had objections on his actions, the result was that I retired my DLC by my own decision
[MMD] Idiocy, copyrights and other animalsFirst of all I want to apologize for my terrific english. This is not my mother language and this is one of the reason why I decided to remove some downloads from my gallery; I don't want to risk a ban on my account due to a misunderstanding or because I cannot explain correctly the trouble, or I cannot understand correctly what DA staff or another users tell me. I'll try to be more as clear and direct as possible.
The story from the beginning:
Some months ago I found three wonderful 3d models on TF3DM.com ( http://tf3dm.com ), a community where 3d modellers can upload their model and give them for free download. Thoose models were in wavefront OBJ format. They were for free download and free (non commercial) use. Modellers use to publish their models with a short description and their "terms of use", as we all do here in DeviantArt. If they don't want their works to be converted in other formats and being distributed, they write it in their Terms of Use.
Well, this is what I fo
So, saying I'm complaining about "rules" is just a lie.
Have a nice day
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Rina55 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-14 18:53:29 +0000 UTC]
no, you've dodged my question because you're a pussy who can't admit when he's been backed into a corner.
good day.
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SamSquids404 In reply to Rina55 [2019-10-01 01:26:06 +0000 UTC]
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AnimeNebula003 [2017-08-30 16:00:26 +0000 UTC]
I've taken a look at the "What If" section you told me about.
Another thing that would be effected is content creators who make just "parts" for MMD models. So if models, original or edited become locked then all the content creators go away as well. Sure we can make stages or props... But if we don't have something to put our work on there's no reason to create it.
So if models become locked people like me and everyone else that people love and adore the users who make those extravagant outfits, accessories, hair, etc.... All of us go away because well... There's nothing for us to build on, not even bases. Unless a model maker actually makes a full model base and provides it the only way to get model bases in MMD is for an editor to create them. Also to add to your list of editors who are seen as model makers, Redstone is another excellent example. Redstone has worked with a large number of different model makers in the Japanese community making outfits and other alternations to already existing models. Best example is Redstone and Kio, if Kio had locked their models then the inventory of Kio models would have dropped at least by half because Redstone wouldn't have been able to make edits.
Sure, we content creators can create our own bases but unless we were to release that base our parts couldn't be used.
No editors = No Part creators
Also another thing that gets me thinking... This "locking" tool... Does it stop programs like Metasequoia and Blender who, with the correct updates and plugins, can open both PMD and PMX models. If you were to load a "locked" model using this current tool would it stop the more powerful programs from saying the model's format into a different readable format for that 3D modeling program? People forget that the PMX editor is not the only thing out there that can change a model.
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SteelDollS In reply to AnimeNebula003 [2017-09-30 14:39:29 +0000 UTC]
I understand that "locked" models can't function in MMM. The "lock" works by corrupting part of the file name. So, the file might remain broken in regards to Meta and Blender, too.
If MMD ever gets an update where it reads that " " after the "pmx" (like pmxe does) instead of reading only 3 of the characters, then any models that are "locked" in this way will stop working on MMD at that point, too. But maybe modelers won't care if their models break and no one uses them, since that way, they will be sure to not "get edited." o-o';
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AnimeNebula003 In reply to SteelDollS [2017-09-30 23:15:40 +0000 UTC]
Yeah but it's completely counterintuitive to build a model in a 3D program, go through the work to set it up for use in MMD, and it not work. That makes no sense at all, at that point if the model didn't work in MMD for the sole purpose of making it uneditable in the editor then fuck the step of getting the model to work in MMD, let it say It's original format.
If the model doesn't work in MMD then it shouldn't be made for MMD.
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AnimeNebula003 In reply to SteelDollS [2017-10-04 03:56:13 +0000 UTC]
Ha thanks for the emojis, I like them.
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Riveda1972 In reply to AnimeNebula003 [2017-09-02 22:40:43 +0000 UTC]
You're right upon all the matter, in my opinion. Basically I'm persuaded most of people don't really think about this matter considering it in all of its consequencies. Once some editors start locking their models or stages, the more will start doing the same, just imitating them (as it happens today with those stpid password games, where "overseas" MMD users started to imitate that japanese game with no need to do) or simply in reaction to them.
I expect this could give a hard hit on the free availability and reuseability of contents. More barriers for nothing, in my opinion. Everyone just thinking and taking care about their own "rights" only, with the result of a general and universal lack of attraction of MMD animation activities. Could we simply call it "egoism"?
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AnimeNebula003 In reply to Riveda1972 [2017-09-03 07:25:24 +0000 UTC]
Could be, though without the experience of seeing these consequences in other ways, it's hard to really expect anything else.
I mean realistically, how can the users of MMD know any different? Especially the newer users? If all they see is both the main line Japanese community as well as the more well known "Western" following these same actions how can it be expected they would see this?
Naturally they won't, it is the responsibility of both the new and the old to remedy this issue. Without experience, you can only one as much as your taught or told.
I can't fully blame either the Western or Japanese MMDC for their actions as both are influenced based on the other on the precautions both have taken thus far.
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MMNana [2017-08-29 14:25:22 +0000 UTC]
Well said! It was the time someone said something about this! Good job!
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XnaFreak In reply to ??? [2017-08-29 12:38:44 +0000 UTC]
Well written
un saggio brillante e ben documentato sul fenomeno
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XnaFreak In reply to Riveda1972 [2017-08-30 07:25:11 +0000 UTC]
n.p. I have to say "Thanks at you for this journal"
Of course, one point of view is not covered by your journal:
In my opinion, the "PMX locker" also had a good side, and that is why some people say you had ruined anything.
I try to make an example:
I put a sign on my (real) "house construction zone" with the text "Do Not Enter!" and lock the "Provisional door" (easy to destroy) with a "simple padlock" (easy to crack).
This is NOT any protection. Nor the door, nor the padlock. The REAL protection is the "sign", or more accurate, the fact that if somebody now enter my "construction zone", then this person know he has no permisson to do it. Cracking the door or padlock is now a "conscious act to ignore the rule".
Thats the "good side" of PMX locker, and it is the good side to have a way to crack it.
Right I see the difference between "read only" and "invalid". I have read about "Abuses, white flies & black sheeps", and I agree with you.
I do not always agree about to "lock something they have absolutely no right to lock or deny further editing."
In my opinion it is
at first a matter of the "permission document from the real owner (video game publisher) to use their assets". If the real owner has allowed to edit their assets and to share the modification, then they have absolutely the right to modify and share it.
Second, it is crucial how extensive is the modification. If it is a major (hugely) modification, and not just a simple coloring, then maybe they have the right to lock or deny further editing. In this case, they should provide a link to the unchanged original version.
Right, this tool is just a tool. Bad or good is not in the tool's nature but in the way and for what it is used for.
The same appears for your tutorial about how to UNlock) , bad or good is not in the guide nature but in the way and for what it is used for.
BTW:
I am not a part of MMD community. I use "XNALara/XPS".
In our community was also something like the "PMX locker", called "ModProtector". This tools has also made the format "Invalide" to produce an "Read only" issue.
After this journal www.tombraiderforums.com/showt… (the comments shows many different point of views)
the Creator of the locker tool (and the creator of XPS) has solved the problem by deleting the tool (and all his other tools to edit non-protected models) www.tombraiderforums.com/showp…
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Riveda1972 In reply to XnaFreak [2017-08-30 10:33:59 +0000 UTC]
I see your points. At least in theory.
Above all what I agree is the point about "how big is the editing work" when compared to the original model?
I've just edited my post to add a final chapter, and I'll use the same example.
Let's consider original z7def's models and Nerudrum's derived ones. Damn, the secon one cannot be just considered edits as nerudrum had just recolored a model and moved away some vertices to lightly modify a head shape!
This also recalls the good old question about who's owner of what, in editing activities. And about that common "don't steal parts" deny, as the smaller is the part as more stupid is the deny (in my opinion).
I had myself some troubles in my very first days as MMD user. When I just knew some common sense rules in 3d editing and had no idea about the generally diffused madness among MMD community. When creating my edit of montecore's Megurine Luka base to make "my" Caprica Six base ( ), I used the inner mouth of Kakomiki's Mikasa Ackermann, having no idea about Kakomiki's "general rules" denying resuse of parts. Still I had no idea about it simply because as a newbie i had no idea an author would put his rules on a single post in a japanese blog, instead of cclearly publishing them together with the shared downloadable content.
Anyway after some discussions, I realized that it had be better to remodel the inner mouth, so I did.
I've simply remade an emisphere for inner mouth and two U-deformed long boxes for teeth, uv mapped them and transferred the weight using the built in PMX plugin to do that. result? A conform copy of Kakomiki's ones.
But so way, as I've made them "from scratch" they are ok for MMD haters and those who harassed me because I was illegally using kakomiki's emisphere and U-shaped boxes for teeth, even if they (my ones) still have the same shape, weights and looking.
I find this kind of activities a bit stupid and useless, exactly what in programming slang is called "to reinvent the wheel every time". And what I call the generally diffused madness in the MMDC.
After all that I'm still persuaded that "locking" models (edit, above all) and encouraging people to do and to consider theirselves owners of a shape just because they've edited it, brings more troubles than (supposed to be) benefits.
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XnaFreak In reply to Riveda1972 [2017-08-30 12:26:44 +0000 UTC]
That's all true.
What is in my mind? I had myself some troubles after I made my first model "from scratch". Somebody reminds me, it was NOT made from scratch. I had use the Blender cube as base mesh and I had save it using the "Wavefront .OBJ" format, without credit the person who has developed the OBJ format. :/
I've has try to search WHO has developed it: Nobody know it Not even the "The Advanced Visualizer" (TAV) team leader ...
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Riveda1972 In reply to XnaFreak [2017-08-30 13:05:04 +0000 UTC]
Wait, wait... what? WHAT??!
HAVE YOU USED A CUBE?? MY OWN CUBE!?
YOU ARE A THIEF!!!
YOU'VE STOLEN MY PARTS!
Here's the proof I'm the One owner of all cubes around the world!
fav.me/db1l6v1
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wishuponacrane In reply to ??? [2017-08-29 08:31:50 +0000 UTC]
What a pathetic explanation for those who model from scratch.
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Riveda1972 In reply to wishuponacrane [2017-08-29 10:06:04 +0000 UTC]
Well I prefer to be honest and tell you the truth than tryng to sell you any false long life elixirs. I'm not guilty if ANY modeller from scratch distributing artworks on the net has not really a secure way to protect its rights (except with the consulance of a lawyer, in case his/her economic rights have been violated). face off this, instead of continuing framing me becaus world is not perfect as you wished it was. Thanks.
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wishuponacrane In reply to Riveda1972 [2017-08-29 10:27:21 +0000 UTC]
So, just because you don't believe in something, you choose to ruin it for everyone else?
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Riveda1972 In reply to wishuponacrane [2017-08-29 10:57:40 +0000 UTC]
What i've explained it not "what i believe" it's just what happens to PROFESSIONAL modellers, who all have more serious troubles (when distributing) than growing upset because someone has taken their TDA shoes and put them on an Animasa base without authorization.
Please consider how dummy and annoying is the fact you are continuing harassing me as I had ruined anything while what I've showed is just the daily real life of thousands of professional modellers, none of all crying and barking as you are doing since i posted this issue.
That's the last answer for you, as it's evident you're not interested in any kind of intelligent discussion but just in going on with your flame and barking as a chihuahua just because you have discovered a lock that absolutely was not a lock for your models.
Have a nice day.
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Runzi333 In reply to Riveda1972 [2018-01-14 21:15:52 +0000 UTC]
ARE YOU SERIOUS?! "Well REAL modelers wouldn't care because they're busy" is completely rude and destructive. Modelers make things for MMD as a hobby and you trying to make it acceptable to disrespect them and steal from them is completely not common sense. If artists post their work online they expect people to see it not steal it and the same goes for modeling.
It's available on the internet doesn't make it okay to STEAL. It also doesn't make it legal.
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Riveda1972 In reply to Runzi333 [2018-01-15 05:36:29 +0000 UTC]
Answered yet in the original post, sorry
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CelestCSilvari In reply to ??? [2017-08-29 02:38:46 +0000 UTC]
I'm with AnimeNebula003 one this one i will never lock my models though i am guilty of the no editing rule(but i usually say unless its to fix something wrong with it) and when i comes to parts i edited i usually say follow the original modelers rules
then when it comes to my own parts that i make i make my own rules
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Riveda1972 In reply to CelestCSilvari [2017-08-29 06:30:06 +0000 UTC]
Do you at least provide your followers AT LEAST a full list of the used parts and where to find them?
If yos your "guilty" is much lighter. In my opinion, of course. My point was of course where the most of "don't edit/don't steal" and so on rules are put by people who also never credited properly the previous artworks they've used, nor they have informed any way where to find them if the user wishes to reuse them himself.
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CelestCSilvari In reply to Riveda1972 [2017-08-29 06:48:51 +0000 UTC]
i just credit who they come from but if they want to know where they come from im more than happy to give them the link to the page
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