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Shadow-of-the-former In reply to ??? [2017-01-19 00:23:42 +0000 UTC]

well say what you wan't, but it seems like you have not heard what I said. which is their is no difference between an artist who draws child Porn for pleasure and and fetish artist who creates such art as yours for the same reason,( the only diffidence is ones illegal)  That can lead to some hypocrisy on your part if you don't agree.

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vladen13 In reply to Shadow-of-the-former [2017-01-19 02:07:49 +0000 UTC]

I've heard what you said.. I just don't agree with all of it.  But I respect that you have views , as I have mine. And I appreciate an open discussion to sharing views , whether we find common ground or not.

........ ... how can I be regarded as a hypocrite for having my own opinion ?

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Shadow-of-the-former In reply to vladen13 [2017-01-19 02:21:31 +0000 UTC]

It makes you a hypocrite because what you do is exactly what people who draw child pornography do, despite you not liking that sort of stuff as I believe you  said. unless you think it's okay for someone to draw child porn sense its technically fictional.,( as in a fetish sense, )

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vladen13 In reply to Shadow-of-the-former [2017-01-19 04:14:16 +0000 UTC]

So your saying because I draw one kind of fetish , that it's the same kind of reasoning , motive , ideal as anyone else drawing any other type of fetish ?...

..... well , that's your opinion , but I simply don't agree that all fetishes are equal in that sense , nor that all interests in whatever the fetish is , are the same in why people like or create them.

... relating to the point I've made repeatedly in believing in being an Individual.



And why would it make me a hypocrite to say that I don't like one " particular " sexual subject mater , but still be okay with something that is different , even if the general theme is sexual in question ?...

That's like saying I'm a hypocrite if I like chocolate ice cream , but don't like strawberry ice cream , even though it's all still ice cream.


As for " Drawing " child porn... I don't care for it , but I ' would  be a hypocrite ' to say that freedom of art is true freedom ... " with the exception of "  ( like opinions , either we all have a right to them , or it's not freedom  )

I define the difference between Reality and Fiction , in saying that one is the " Real " abuse of a child , the other is a bunch of pencil scratches on paper that is " Not " real.

And I simply choose to not blur the line between fact and fiction.  I don't like child porn , but I won't presume to tell someone else their wrong to draw it , because in my opinion , it's not my place to define fictional art for other people. 

 

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Shadow-of-the-former In reply to vladen13 [2017-01-19 05:15:43 +0000 UTC]

Look i have a lot of friends with fetishes, and I have seen a lot of other fetishes on this site and I can usually tell the reasoning behind why one draws something if you observed it long enough , sure not everyone draws it for the same reason, but really, why is it you draw it for then ? 

you see Fiction or not, Child Porn is wrong, that is if the person enjoys is sexually.  and You see, It's not the lines on the paper that matter, it's the idea behind it,  cause lets face it,  Most people are not attracted to the lines, but the Idea of what those line are showing, same as a child porn artist. If I drew an apple and gave showed it to a person who enjoys child porn, it probably wouldn't do anything for them despite it being lines, now If I showed them child porn on paper then that' probably get their interest even though those are just lines on paper,. so Lines really have nothing to do with it really, it's what they enjoy that's that's going on in the image,sure it's better then acting on it, to have such thoughts about thing's like that or to glorify anything like that, isn't good way to look at it either, 

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vladen13 In reply to Shadow-of-the-former [2017-01-19 10:52:32 +0000 UTC]

First... Thank you.

In the time we've talked on this subject in general.. this is the first time you actually asked me why.

And I'm prepared to tell you my view , ' if ' you feel that even if you don't agree with my perspective , that you can at least allow me my own right to my own philosophy.


But before I rant on to answer that question , let me speak my piece in what you said in the second half of your comment.

I agree with you that there are people , even a lot of people who care more about the idea behind the art , but let's not get lost in the ' Let's face it ' resolve of presuming ( even by a massive amount of people agreeing ) what we should assume of how people think and feel.  In my opinion , that leans towards trying on the mantel of Gods in saying how someone you never met , is already stamped with a pre - established stereotype. 

Even if your right 99% of the time.. that 1% still deserves the benefit of the doubt.  One last time... I believe in Individuality , which includes ' not ' saying outright what people are , instead of who people are... every blessed one of them. 


Now I'm not suggesting that the ' idea ' is justified , or better , just because it's fictional.. I'm saying that blurring that line between Real and Fiction to where anyone treats fiction like a real assault , may be losing sight of the difference between reality and fantasy.  You make a very good point about that ' idea ' , and I agree that child porn is wrong when it's a real life photo or film of a real child , because that's an actual real life assault. Real life assault is wrong period.
But , in terms of drawing or written fiction , or cartoons , that are completely ' made up ' ...  I'm not defending the ' idea ' , I'm defending that fiction , like art , like free speech and free thought , in whatever it is , has right to exist as a form of expression.  And even if it's very likely what the ' idea ' is behind it... it's , as I called it , pencil scratches on paper that are not real photo's , and shouldn't be held up as the real thing... In - My - Opinion. 

I - Don't - Like - Child porn!... But It's not the subject that matters to me , in this discussion between us , in whether I like it or loath it........ it's that fiction is a freedom in it's own to express. That is my point , and if I've not made that clear enough , if my attempts to explain have been clumsy , and easy to mis-interrupt ...  ( including to the measure of you using that somewhat condescending ' Apple ' lines analogy ) ..then fine , my bad. Excuse me for not getting it clear the first time.   

I would be a hypocrite if I were to assume that my views , any views , should be held over the views of others , expecting them to change their views for mine.

  And in that... not once have I said that ' You ' , in your opinion , are wrong in terms of what you honestly believe is right , in your view of how to write your journals as you see fit.  And I won't ask you to change your mind about your beliefs , for the sake of my views... I never did.




Now as to why " I " draw the stuff I draw ?....


I like adventurous fiction that can include sex. I like the mellodrama , the danger , the grit and erotic flavor in that variety of horror sometimes , or maybe a more kinky wildside in the characters , or sometimes even a measure of comedy. Whatever some silly measure of muse , moves me.

Have you really looked over Lots of my artwork ?... Have you really seen the various ways I've drawn the cliff-hanger classic , or the more modern Saw style , " BUT " also seen my art when it comes to the none sex stuff I've made ?

" I " have played video games where I didn't feel bad because I shot someone... Whatever Anyone else felt , it was Not Real to Me!  The same when I watched a Die Hard film , listened to a gangster rap song , read a murder novel ,

and before you say back about what " YOU " feel about those things , or assume to tell me what the World of Humanity thinks of those examples....


" I "  enjoy them Because " I " see them as Nothing but Fictional Farce Fun to enjoy Without Consequence , because " I " do Not believe I have to accept them as any kind of Real Life refection of Ideals , Morals , Beliefs , or as Windows to my Mind , Heart or Soul!...  " I " Don't treat any of it as Real , because it's NOT Real!... NOT TO ME!

If your looking for more insight , perhaps it's because I've spent a lifetime in a mix of Entertainment , on Stage , in Film , writing , acting , directing ... as well as drawing.  In all of that ,  I have a greater appreciation for that dividing line between Fact and Fiction , because of being on both sides of living life " Without " assaulting people in the real world , and " Without " Raping real people ,... but also Not treating Fantasy like some ding dong wanting to run around some park with a gun cause he watched some stupid Rambo film....... BECAUSE I DON'T GET FACT AND FICTION MIXED UP!

And that allows me a freedom to not put limits on creating whatever I choose to draw... Not limiting myself to Only drawing sex fetishes , because I can enjoy non sex stuff too.. IF you even noted that.

But in terms of the sex stuff..  I like to play the Villain , in letting my hair down and being evil and wild in my sexual adventures of Fiction , and because I can be tough enough to not cry over a moment of sex drama with some terrible , torrid torture fiction I draw ,  because I know that after I finish whatever I draw , be it fetish or whatever...

I'll be glad to feed my cat , call my aunt to see how her Doctor's appointment went , and live peacefully in my simple life , knowing I am " WHO " I am... Not the sum of someone else presuming to lump me in to a group of stereotypes , in assuming " WHAT " I am.

I Don't want to hurt real people in real life!... I don't mind creating fetish art , because it means no more or less then any other form fiction that involves some type of adventure / violence.  I do Not celebrate Violence , in sex or otherwise ,
I just enjoy the complete , immature , silly , don't take it seriously dude - it's a freak'in drawing , appeal of Fiction being a measure to have some outrageous fun with an edge and gameplay adventure.



....... And here's the most important point to all of what I've said...............


I have lived my live for many years , before DA , before the Internet ... I have lived " MY " life with many friends , family and responsibilities , and taken care of a good number of lives...

And I did it without hurting people... without desires to hurt people... in fact one of the reason's I don't live on DA 24-7 is because I still live in the real world , and do it without judging the world.


.......... even if the world seems to need to judge me.  



Is this answer something you'll scoff at ?... Are you going to assume that I'm some Jekyll or Hyde , in being unable to accept that " I " simply have my own views ?.....



Regardless.....  I Thank you for your time.  I Thank you for sharing your views , which I did see. I Thank you for keeping things civil , and if you feel I have offended in anyway , then I apologize as It was not my intent.


I think this debate has run it's course , at least on this journal... I really have nothing more to add , so I'll say Keep your journals coming... express your views in earnest , with thought ...



............ and if there's something you can take from this..... I hope it's not that we disagreed so much , or feel like it was all pointless.... because you actually ' Asked ' me why I draw what I do , and that to me...


Was you looking at ' Me ' ... as I , in visiting your page . looked at you. 







 

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Shadow-of-the-former In reply to achthenuts [2017-01-12 07:18:28 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, personally I don't care if some fetishists choose to leave as I have my views on them that are negitive, but people need to learn that harassing a deviant for something they don't like doesn't means it's okay.

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Shadow-of-the-former In reply to TheThunder-Art [2017-01-12 07:16:28 +0000 UTC]

I believe so,

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