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Silfae — Mass Effect 3: AI compared - Legion
Published: 2012-07-15 15:15:36 +0000 UTC; Views: 9055; Favourites: 34; Downloads: 63
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The difference between Shepard and Legion: it asked if all geth were okay to rewrite their very nature.Very well, here's another AI Compared quick comic.
SPOILERS, of course:
Don't get me wrong, I liked Legion in both games and its "death" as well, but in the end it felt like there was some kind of inconsistency in the geth's logic.
If your Shepard spoke to Legion for long enough in Mass Effect 2, you will know the selfdetermination the geth aspired to was to be all reunited in a giant memory core (it also tell you the geometric form it will have). Even if you didn't, when you meet it again on the Normandy in Mass Effect 3 it will say that the geth were driven to the Reapers when the quarians attacked this superstructure just when the geth were starting uploading themselves in it, thus deleting billions of programs and forcing them to seek help to the Reapers.
I thought it was a very well made concept the fact they didn't want to be just like humans (or other organics), it hinted the organic way wasn't the ONLY possible one for a sentient species to evolve.
But then, on Rannoch, if you let Legion downloading the Reaper code, it seemed strange to me the geth wanted to acquire individuality, the same way it would seem strange to a human to acquire collectivity by being uploaded in Reaper form. Or being forced in the Synthesis Ending.
For the first comic AI Compared - The Starchild: [link]
For the third comic AI Compared - EDI: [link]
For the fourth comic OI Compared - Leviathan: [link]
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Comments: 21
Like someone else brought up, I don't specifically think that the geth had much of a choice. They DID make the Dyson Sphere and they DID upload into it. Unfortunately, this made them a prime target for the quarians, and after the structure was blown up, millions of geth program went with it. Their reasoning and processing capabilities suddenly diminished extraordinarily. That was why they were so desperate for the reaper upgrades and ended up siding with them before being rewritten once again. It was a matter of survival.
So when all was said and done with the reaper dead and control given back to the geth, they were still roughly at where they first started. Not to mention the quarian fleet still wanted to blow them up.
Legion had to make a choice, but it seemed to believe that with the reaper dead and its own personality disseminated that the geth as a whole would still be able to be their own people, have the means to protect themselves, and achieve full sentience. The Dyson Sphere had proven itself not to be a viable way to do this.
Its not as if the geth even with their consensus could not achieve variance and preference for certain methods and ideologies. The heretic geth's earlier existence, Legion's N-7 grafts, the care taking of Rannoch, etc… All point to some level of altruism and individualism both.
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I would not think the presence of altruism for intelligences which are not them (heretics, organics) necessarely implies the presence or the desire for individualism. The fact the Dyson Sphere didn't work was merely incidental because of the quarians' attack; failing once in particular circumstances does not negate possibility of success at a second try.
As for the action itself, even if Legion didn't know about the exact consequences in the long run, even if they agreed uploading reaper code was necessary if the quarians weren't brought to reason by Shepard, they should have known almost all Reaper tech tended to backfire in some way when employed by non-Reapers and had the nearly constant feature of opening to indoctrination; even if they found no alternative in uploading the Reaper code to defeat the quarians then, it would have been wiser to delete it after. Then again, they could have just retreated, since obviously they cared about their integrity more than they did about Rannoch in the first place...
Using an inversed parallel, it would be like if the Star Trek Federation was in a double war against borgs and klingons, just defeated the borg Collective and, to increase it's chances to defeat the klingons, decided to turn all humanity in borg-like hivemind.
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Yeah, that was disappointing. For all the variety of aliens there were, they all were pretty identical mentally. The Geth were something unique.
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Well, compared to other sci-fi and fantasy settings, Mass Effect at least tried to diversificate the aliens biologies and cultures, but yes they were still close to some common stereotypes. The Geth could have been different, if in the third game they didn't went to the individuality theme, which assimilates them to the blatant trope that the best thing a robot can aspire to is to become just like organics.
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Agreed. Those REAPER things had always been the perfect, ultimate solution for literally EVERYTHING in ME3. Including the Crucible. That pretty much exposed how BWs creativity are depleted.
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Had so much more respect for the Geth before that whole reaper code thing. *sigh* GO BACK TO SUPER STRUCTURE!!!!
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Personally I don't even think that completely digital consciousness is possible at all, the same way a simulated fire will not burn.
Still I really liked The Bicentennial Man.
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I'm happy someone noticed him, in the narrative of self-determination of AI Andrew is one of the best exemples.
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Yea, I've also never seen a protagonist that looked that happy at such a sad feeling ending.
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Yes, a wonderful movie.
At a first time I was about to put him in the EDI strip, viceversa for HK since there may be more basic similarities for the inverted couples, but, on a more philosophical level, I'd say Andrew would be the one more astounded by Legion line of thought.
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In Mass effect 2, Legion questions the value of individuality, in ME3, he wants it for his people.
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Yes, that's pretty much it.
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The problem was that the Dyson sphere (from what I gathered from supplemental material) got blown to hell and back by the Quarians when they attacked. That drove them to the "arms" of the Reapers. Yes, I admit using the code seems like a violation of what they wanted, but considering they where in an overall diminished capacity with the Quarians still firing at them, it could be used to a) help defend themselves AND b) gain true consciousness. And there is the Shepard factor as well.
Legion seems to find Shepard, "intriguing."
Then again, I think it was just another example of the writers (which were not the original writers, or so I heard) stumbled across these concepts and went, "Ah Hell, what do we do?"
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Yes, acquiring the Reaper code could have seemed a good choice to end the war with the Quarians and increase their perceptions as well, still the Dyson sphere could have been reconstructed after the war, unless the Geth's newly acquired individuality made that objective not anymore required. Even after the upgrade they could have reunited their more advanced programs.
I don't know, the passage from "we" to "I", wich is also underlined on board by EDI and Joker, maybe was pleasant as a scene, but narratively not so right if confronted to the previous statments from Legion. In the Heretic Station if you pick one of the Renegate responces it clearly says that even using a benevolent humanism to judge another species (in that case the geth) would be racist, because you'll be applying the same needs and aspirations of yours. It's safe to assume individuality is something humans like, but the geth seemed happy with their consensus and inspired to something different than individuality.
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The application seems racist, in as much as it is based on human principles, but that also applies to any other culture/race outside your own. I have to admit it was awkward at best and I don't think they lost their network capacity, only gained individual awareness.
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I prefer my renegade, she made some terrible decision but it felt more real in a galactic extinction event. Not every decision was renegade like I kept Samara alive, I was never Callous for the sake of being Callous.
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