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Spaztique β [OUTDATED] Spaztique's Guide to Touhou OC Creation
Published: 2012-11-13 03:45:23 +0000 UTC; Views: 32247; Favourites: 243; Downloads: 319
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It follows the same concept of "never make your character so powerful that they cannot easily attain their goal instantly". In this case, even if they beat the first character, they still have a long way to go to get to their main goal. There are plenty of stories where the hero beats a character early on; these are often the mentor characters trying to train the main character for their upcoming journey, to which they will be facing much bigger opponents.
This is a matter of principle 11: storytelling is more important in this context. Pace out the level of conflict they must face, and their early victories will seem like a calm before the storm/preparation for upcoming conflicts.
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I'm glad you made this guide, I am new to walfas and made some Touhou OC's but I was nervous that some could see them as Mary Sues. This guide will be a big help for me in case my characters do turn out to be Mary Sues so thank you very much.
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With the sudden rise of Walfas comics that's been taking place in the last few year, people seem to constantly forget the importance of story over character design.
I've seen many stories, written or drawn, where I constantly question myself: "Why am I even watching it?"
This may be old, but the advice it gives is invaluable.
As always, you've proven your knowledge in writing. I wonder, have you ever considered making a living out of your skills?
Once again, thank you for sharing this with us, the amateur writers.
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I plan to update this guide eventually, and I'm thinking of doing an in-depth illustrated story guide eventually as well.
As for making a living off this, currently editing Voidspawn for widescale publication. Showing previews of each chapter until it's done.
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just what I need!! >.<
hey, is there already a spirit fox in the original tohou?
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Well, Ran Yakumo (Yukari's servant) is a nine-tailed youkai fox (a kitsune), but if you make your character different enough from Ran it should be all right. There's no law against there being more than one of a certain type of youkai (unless the OC is just a knockoff of an existing character).
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This is some good information for OC's in general. Thanks for the guide Spaztique
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My oc's Stories(mainly my oc sora's) are still mainly works in progress cause I have occasional writers block when I get the best of ideas. Any advice? (Sora's the touhou oc and hika's more a crossoverish oc)
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Would using extremely recognizable bodies or hair for an OC be something to avoid? Like using Mokou's hair or Alice's body.
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Not if you can't find the right accessories for the rest of the costume to make them unique. A number of PC-98 characters wore red robes, and a number of Windows characters have red dresses. You can pull it off.
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Dear Spaztique or anyone who gives a review on OCs,
I have a touhou character named Hoshiuta, and she's a youkai Swallow. Her hair it a brownish purple, and wears a blue or purple kimono. If I post a bio, can you give me some pointers?
From, TheNightlessCastle.
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Well, I know what they look like, but personality is the most important factor. Tell me more about how they act.
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Well, they usually try and be a little social, but sometimes come off as rather odd, so they are a bit of a social outcast, so she usually only communicates with her friend, Harugasumi (A bat youkai). Β Despite the fact that they're a swallow youkai, they're not very good at singing. Their spell cards are somewhat simple and based around stars and astrology, much like Marisa, but not enough to be copying her.Β
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...This just saved my English project...
Β
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Salve, Signor Spaztique!
From what I have read based on your guide, it seems that I have broke a lot of the principles, especially principles 2, and a lot more. I currently have two fics, which I am having second thoughts if I should re-write or just make another one.
...Your guide is great! It actually does point out each flaw often encountered concerning OC's not only found in Touhou fanfics, but also on other series. Apparently, my OC's have these flaws...
I just hope that I won't end up with the same mistake again, now that I have some pointers to watch out for when making Touhou OC's as well as OC's from other series'.
Your guide really helped a lot!
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It's not a matter of "breaking" them. The classic proverb goes: "A rule says, 'You must do it this way.' A principle says, 'This works and has through all recorded time.'" This guide is about principles: it is possible write a good OC with bad design, who is closely tied to another character, has a ton of canon characters as friends, uses a sword, has a military tile, can beat the most powerful character blindfolded in a scene, has a ton of powers, an elaborate costume, and is based entirely on the author...
... just as long as it follows Principle 11. Now that is a rule: storytelling abilities trump how well you design the characters that go into it.
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Ah, I see. I'll be sure to focus on Storytelling as much as everything else.
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Is it weird if my method of OC creation goes like this:
Personality: Check
Strengths/Weaknesses: Check
How he/she interacts with society: Check
Story: Check
Appearance: Check
Name: ...Umm
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Pretty much the same, except I have the most trouble with personality and story rather than name.
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That's actually quite normal and similar to how I design characters (with the addition of the above principles).
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lordultimate.deviantart.com/jo⦠Interested in a quick look?
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"I just found the identity of the Origami Killer and an innocent tengu is about to be killed!"
What fic is this?Β I wanna read it!
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flandre495.deviantart.com#/art⦠I tried my best NOT to follow the rules XD
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A Japanese Name Generator: [link] . Just put in whatever words you want and it'll convert it into a Japanese Name and give the meanings too. Just fool around with it and you should eventually come up with a nice name for your character. The names are in Japanese Naming convention so it's family name first.
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This isn't just useful for Touhou OCs- I found it useful for a lot of other universes. It's also got me thinking about creating a Touhou Character. Nice work.
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My thoughts to each principle:
#1: Fine with that. Other clear color patterns (such as a checkered pattern of specific colors) may also count as one color.
#2: It amuses me how well you could fit Meimu into these points, but since the designer (AUER) never specified anything other than her design (could be more, but I can't read chinese), this may or may not apply.
#3: Sometimes, this might not be entirely plausible, but is a necessary evil to drive the plot forward. Parodies are the main reason for leaning on the principle.
#4: has a journal that adresses problems that may come with the misuse of strengths and weaknesses.
#5: Alternately, you can have a secondary skill that compensates your low range (most likely high speed/defense) or you simply don't use the sword in combat (maybe for practice, or the sword is just a collection item)
#6: Agreed.
#7: It depends on whether the story is combat-oriented and who your character's opponent is: Even beating a medium-level character such as Aya or Youmu with ease might be too much.
#8: Cirno's ability use here is extremely straightforward: Not only is ice well-known to be usable as a shield (having reflective properties against lasers, too), you are required to use it just as depicted in one Touhou game to win.
#9: Nothing to say here.
#10-1: You will have to come up with an explanation for any of your characters. (Being born in Gensokyo counts)
#10-2: Multiple versions of the same character is useful if you want to play majorly different types of roleplays and don't want to come up with a completely new character for each.
#10-3: See the gal in purple above.
#10-M: Okay.
#11: Beginners should focus on that if they start writing stories - looking at the many things they can do wrong will turn them off from writing.
Lastly, if you're looking for a good story starring a Touhou other than Reimu or Marisa, you're gonna have a bad time.
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We'll bite your legs off!
We'll bite your legs off!
(Dear god seeing that reference made me die from laughter)
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Spaztique, you are a fiction genius. I'm currently writing a fanfiction about Nitori going on a trip around Gensokyo and the other main character is a youkai who was originally a device Nitori made a while back. His personality is that of the creepy scientist who manages to stay calm in any situation, only taken up to 11. Well, that combined with being as he calls himself, a 'nonsensical braniac'.
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The only thing I disapprove of is that beating Yukari easily means a broken character. Her being an almighty super-god is merely fandom, Aya stated that it is "unknown" how far her power extends, it might be nothing more than Portals in the end, multiple characters (Suika, Tenshi and Toyohime) have beaten her quite easily already. The rule of thumb should be, that your abilities can be explained in a short sentence/passage without being incredibly vague. (Canon Characters in Touhou never hold onto this rule, which is why there are like 10 characters who could be almighty)
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Exactly.
Which I why I like stories where the Touhou characters are faced against a powerful opponent that they can't easily beat.
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Aya doesn't always know what she's talking about. The "unknown" extent of Yukari's powers is the reason why she's such a force to be reckoned with. Her ability is to manipulate borders - ANYTHING that has a form has borders. By that definition, she might as well be a God, or at least equivalent to one. She did create as well as maintain all of Gensokyo, after all.
But she also has to keep it in balance, meaning she can't manipulate the borders of her opponents during battle - that would be cheating, and doing so would be stepping out of the bounds of her duties and responsibilities. So she holds back, even if it means getting hurt, because her duty come before her pride.
Of course, without this border-manipulating ability, she would only have her gaps, danmaku and Shikigamis to fight with, so it's understandable that she CAN lose. But if you test the very limits of her powers, she can make it so that she CANNOT lose.
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Similarly, everything exsisting is bound by the rules of time and space, yet no super-god powers are give to someone who can bend time and space at will (Sakuya). Also we have a character who can manipulate Fate and yet makes no use of it (Remilia).
"By that definition, she might as well be a God, or at least equivalent to one. She did create as well as maintain all of Gensokyo, after all."
-Entirely Untrue. No canonical works exist that state Yukari to be either creator or maintainer of Gensokyo (In fact the latter is canonically done by Reimu.) The Creator of Gensokyo was most likely the Dragon God that appeared in the Sky when the Hakurei Border was errected. Said Dragon is worshipped by humans and Youkai alike for his ability to create and destroy everything.
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Right, I forgot about the Dragon God. However, Yukari is widely believed to have aided in the construction of Gensokyo, as well as being able to sense and repair the Great Hakurei Border. She is capable of seeing (and seeing through) boundaries that are normally invisible; when the Human Village was displaced from history by Keine Kamishirasawa (in Imperishable Night stage 3), Yukari was still able to see it. It was even shown in Immaterial and Missing Power that Yukari can also control and bend the boundaries to her will, as seen when she adjusted the sky by manipulating the border between the daylight and moonlight to unite the day and the night.
Hieda no Akyuu writes in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense that "manipulation of boundaries" is theoretically a god-like power which would allow Yukari to create or destroy anything. It hasn't been confirmed, but at least a character of insightful knowledge within the canonical universe states that it might be possible. You can still use Aya's argument that gaps are all there is to her power, but then we'd have to theories regarding just how powerful Yukari really is, with no way to prove or refute either. Any attempts to do so would merely be based on personal belief.
I guess at the end of the day, that's the beauty of Touhou - pretty much everything is up for interpretation; Spaztique believes Yukari is god-like, you believe she isn't. Either way of thinking is fine, and we should just accept that.
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"Spaztique believes Yukari is god-like"
This is news to me.
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Indeed. That's where my original post aims at. Her powers are too vague to let her be a scale of good and balanced characters. Similarly, Yorihime defeated a lot of major characters, I wouldn't consider her overpowered though.
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Yorihime defeated major characters EASILY and all at once. I recall that fanon refers to her as the "Mary Sue" of the canonical Touhou universe. And the fact that she AND her sister Toyohime can even outsmart Yukari, the "Sage of Youkai" backs up that notion even further.
Normally, I consider ZUN to be a f**king genius. But I have no idea what he was thinking when he thought up the scale of the Watatsuki sister's abilities.
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There is a report that Lunarians won a war against the Youkai (it is even stated that the Lunarians were way surperior). And given that a Lazy spoiled Princess (Kaguya) and a simple Nurse (Eirin) are even matched against the more powerful characters in Touhou, it doesn't come at a suprise that a trained warrior from the moon can overpower them. The Entire Lunarian race gained nigh-immortality by freeing themselves of "impurity" so arguebly, all Lunarians would be as grossly overpowered as Yorihime, maybe even more so. Also Yorihime didn't defeat them at once, but one at a time.
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Had my laptop didn't screw itself over, this reply would've come a lot sooner.
I made a mistake in my comment before; I meant to type "one at a time", but typed "all at once" instead. Man, I looked like an idiot.
Nigh-immortality does not equate skill. I can assure you that if any of the Touhou characters faced a random Lunarian, the former would win. And just like the Yukari argument, nowhere did it ever state in canon that all Lunarians are overpowered, just near-immortal. That's just a theory you made. Yorihime and Toyohime - as shown in this comic, conveniently enough - are trained military combatants. They have the skill to take on the Touhou characters on equal ground, plus their mentor was Eirin. What makes Yorihime overpowered, though, is her ability to call on the Gods. Now, does this sound familiar? If not... Brolli Diamondback. In Spaztique's movie "Diamond in the Rough" Brolli gains the ability to use four "Avatars", which easily makes him one of (if not the) most overpowered characters in Gensokyo. Similarly, Yorihime's military training with her Lunarian abilities and her God-summoning powers, not to mention defeating four of Gensokyo's finest single-evenhandedly, topped of with outsmarting Yukari Yakumo... makes her an overpowered character. And attempting to put all Lunarians on the same level as justification, DOES NOT change that.
If you still don't agree, that's fine. One of the most important things a story-writer should have is being to tell between a well-written character and badly-written one. Yorihime by my standards is poorly-written, and has many of the qualifications of a Mary-Sue. ZUN should've had her lose at least once - Tenshi, who is considered by many as an undefeatable character (she lost on purpose during the Scarlet Weather incident) lost to Komachi Onozuka. A ferry reaper. In a fight for life. That's why she can't be considered a Mary Sue (well, that and many other reasons I won't mention right now). Yorihime on the other hand, that remains to be seen.
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Do we know another character who can summon the gods the same way Yorihime can? I don't know... *cough* Reimu, Sanae *cough*. The lunarian immortality and intellegence makes them able to train longer and harder than any resident of gensokyo, also, in the first Lunarian War it was stated that the Lunarians won due to Superior Magic and Technology - that's where I got that from. We have few Lunarians seen in Touhou canon (Because as far as I got that Lunarian =/= Moon Rabbit), but all of them have great power (Eirin, Kaguya, Yorihime and Toyohime). Also, I don't know where you got that "outsmarting Yukari" thing. Yukari's Plan did work in the end. (It was Toyohime by the way who "caught" her by the way.) Yukari's plan was ridiculous to the most people, but it work. (She had Yuyuko steal booze from the moon <<)
By the way, Reimu never lost a fight so far if I remember correctly, unless you count in Seihou were VIVIT blasted her and Marisa away.
Poorly Written doesn't mean a character never loses a fight. it means that character overcentralizes the story or is simply bland and featureless. Yorihime has few screentime and is by no means bland. (Well, she has a lot more personality than some other Touhou characters)
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"Poorly Written doesn't mean a character never loses a fight. it means that character overcentralizes the story or is simply bland and featureless. Yorihime has few screentime and is by no means bland. (Well, she has a lot more personality than some other Touhou characters)"
Exactly. She works well as a strong, interesting villain.
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She is not really a villain considering what the main cast wanted. She was merely the antagonist.
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Oh yeah, "villain" and "antagonist" aren't necessarily the same.
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She was outsmarted, her plan worked - either way, she was still caught and submitted to defeat. The look on Yukari's face screamed of "well, this was unexpected". Her plan may have worked in the end (she IS a youkai with a thousand plans, after all) but the fact remains that the Watatsuki sisters had Yukari herself cornered.
Summon Gods the "same way"? Yorihime said Reimu is unable to summon the Gods properly. Reimu even admitted this herself! It's part of her character - she doesn't put in the effort train her abilities, despite the potential she has.
Sanae on the other hand, she's a miko with the power of a God, but like Reimu, she hasn't trained enough, so her mastery over her abilities is limited. Besides, Reimu and/or Marisa managed to defeat Kanako and Suwako, so they aren't overpowered (despite being Gods).
In Imperishable Night, Reimu is the Stage 4A boss and is defeated by the playing character. People try to ignore this, but she still lost in-game.
Of course, everything I just said falls in line with what you said about Lunarians - Lunarian immortality and intelligence DOES make training and learning a lot more effective in the long run. I can agree with that. However, I won't accept Yorihime's God summoning abilities. The training and learning capabilities of Lunarians opens another problem with Yorihime - if she's so skilled and intelligent, what need is there for her to use her God summoning powers to win every battle? Ever heard of the trope "Holding Back the Phlebotinum"? It describes that extreme power must come in small packages, or at a limit. "...If you've got something that could resolve just about any conflict by waving it around, then obviously people would use it all the time, and your stories would be dreadfully boring" (TvTropes) and this was exactly the case for Yorihime - there was absolutely no way for her to lose with the power of Gods, and she ended up using them in every battle. Where's the excitement if you know that she can always win just by throwing Gods at you?
Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. Yorihime poorly written character not simply because she never loses, but because of the FOUNDATIONS and the IMPLICATIONS her character is built upon. Yorihime is a master swordswoman who has perfect control over her God-summoning powers - that automatically entails that she can't possibly lose, therefore, the foundations on which her character is built upon is weak. Since she won't hesitate to use such a power on her opponents, it implies that her character enjoys overwhelming them to the utmost degree (which is one of the most common pitfalls for Gappy sues/stus). Personality becomes moot if these two points are like this; you can argue that Kirito from SAO is rich with personality, but he's still unlikable due to the unfortunate implications and weak foundations of his character (only travels with girls, being more "naturally" skilled than everyone else). Because he, like Yorihime, is a Mary Sue.
Foundations and implications - these are the keys to writing a good character, not personality. Because even the greatest personalities can be squabbled by the worst circumstances, and the greatest circumstances can bring out the best in the worst personalities. Look no further than Lelouch vi Britannia as proof.
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I don't see how Yorihime seemingly "won easily against all these main characters", she was close to be defeated more than once, and sometimes only won because of stupid errors or unwillingness from her adversaries:
- Against Sakuya she lost, the latter stopped time and put a knife under her throat, normally that would be game over. But Sakuya knew that Remilia wanted to fight and be the one to defeat Yorihime, so she didn't pressed her advantage and dragged the fight so Remilia would see Yorihime's abilities, she never intended to win this fight.
- Against Marisa she won due to her abilities that's right, but it's also important to take into account that Maris is a "one-trick fighter": no matter her spell, they are all based on light, even her famous Master Spark. Once Yorihime realized that and found a counter, Maris was screwed.
- Against Remilia... look again at the fight, she completely and utterly OWNED Yorihime in terms of brute strength and made her fly like a ragdoll. But instead of pressing her advantage and getting immediately rid of Yorihime, she fooled around, toyed with Yorihime, made the fight last for her own enjoyment, until Yorihime had the time to invocate Yamaterasu, the Sun God, one-shooting Remilia in the process. Had Remilia been pragmatic and maintained the pressure thanks to her superior raw strength and speed following by a Gungnir to the face, she would had won. But well, lack of maturity and pragmatism is why we love Remilia!
- Against Reimu... well Reimu didn't even tried to seriously fight. She admitted that she was the bad guy in this story, launched one attack and when Yorihime countered it, just gave up and let her adversary win. She was dragged by force in this mess and definitively didn't fell compelled to try hard to help Remilia in her conquering frenzy and Marisa in her pillage spree.
Yes, Yorihime is extremely powerful and skilled, has centuries, if not millenia of training to hone her skills and her ability to summon Gods makes her a Swiss Army knife, but first she has to know which god to invoke to counter her enemy, and that's were the key to defeat her lies: uses your abilities and go all out to overpower her before she has the time to figure out your abilities and weaknesses and exploit them with the adequate god, something Sakya and Remilia failed to do. That's it if you have the skills to put pressure on her of course, what Marisa lacked with all her spells being based on light, Reimu didn't even intended to fight in the first place.
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That post was from how long ago? Let it go, man, it's not relevant anymore. I know my Touhou canon now, probably better than you do.
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