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Stabzor In reply to AndyError [2012-11-18 16:43:00 +0000 UTC]

Oh, thanks

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CadenSkywalker In reply to MasterGraveheart [2014-10-02 22:41:52 +0000 UTC]

"It is revealed early into the series that Rainbow Dash and Applejack, although good friends, are also rivals. In "Fall Weather Friends" this is evidenced well, wherein Rainbow Dash and Applejack face off against one another during the Running of the Leaves, but there are a lot of subtle references to their relationship to one another. Even as early as the Pilot, Applejack has to hold Rainbow Dash back by the tail in order to prevent her from attacking Nightmare Moon, and during the conclusion of "Boast Busters" it is Applejack who manages to convince Rainbow Dash not to pursue Trixie. In "The Best Night Ever" Rainbow Dash is allowed to prove herself to the Wonderbolts, at least initially, by saving Soarin's pie...the very pie that was sold to him by Applejack in the previous scene. Whilst one could accuse a viewer of over-analysing the show during these circumstances, it would be difficult to deny that there is certainly a degree of interaction and companionship between Rainbow Dash and Applejack that doesn't exist between other characters. Rainbow Dash's impulsive nature is mediated by the level-headed Applejack on many occasions."
cuddlepug.deviantart.com/art/R…

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Stabzor In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-05 10:20:34 +0000 UTC]

... I guess that's one way to put it. Thanks

Now stay away from mah head canon

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-05 09:22:04 +0000 UTC]

I'd like to think they're best friends, even if it might be a bit awkward. It's their personalities that bring them close; a rivalry of sorts between the two. They don't miss an opportunity to one-up another. They enjoy the challenge each offers to the other. It's playful and friendly.

The thing here is that Dash tries to hide how she actually feels, sometimes failing to do so (as we've seen). Applejack realizes this, and knows that despite how she may act, RD cares and is a good friend.

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-05 16:11:27 +0000 UTC]

For my money, AJ's best friend is Twilight Sparkle. She was the first pony she really met when in Ponyville and they always are the ones who try to talk one another down when they're in over their heads or stressed out about something. Also, when one of them has wronged the other, they actually APOLOGIZE to one another, something Rainbow has only done twice, really, and neither time to AJ.

As much as the two do compete, Rainbow has taken several opportunities to wrong AJ, including insisting that her family's town upend itself, incited a cider riot against her, forced her into a picture with her (which by Rainbow's view was doing her a favor, that should sadly go to show how little she thinks of AJ), straight-out cheated AJ in several athletic events for the sake of her own personal gory rather than competition, and put-off helping her for the sake of napping on her farm. The worst part is that she never took the time to apologize to AJ. And whenever she does go out of the way for her, it's always in a group-mentality with the others.

Rainbow's hidden her true feelings before, but it's never really been about Applejack. She's hidden her love of reading and her fears of failure in the Best Young Flyer's competition, but those have usually been for the sake of her own image, which Rainbow covets most of all. It's why she wants to be a Wonderbolt, in the end. They're the famed fliers of Equestria and Rainbow wants to be talked about in that category.

Also, the thing about Rainbow and AJ is that they've never actually hidden ANYTHING about one another. This is why they've gotten into fights and have argued several times. Usually, it's because AJ's trying to talk her down from her own ego... almost always in vein. And when friendship /is/ shown on an individual level outside of a group-mentality, it's always AJ who initiates it.

I won't ever deny that Applejack and Rainbow Dash are friends. They're just not very good friends, which is sad, because I can see what they can /become/ as friends. Sadly, they're far from being there yet, it seems.

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-05 23:48:42 +0000 UTC]

Rainbow has never intentionally wronged Applejack. In the apple cider case, Rainbow was saying what every other pony was thinking (shortages have always been common). Apple Bloom was the one that agreed to the contest, which almost got them kicked out of their home.

Rainbow is very competitive, it's how she is. Applejack responded in kind anyways. Expecting her to apologize for her often obnoxious and self-centered actions is expecting too much. She would never do something that would make her seem softer than the image she tries to prop up. After all, she broke into a hospital and stole a book, just to avoid admitting to the others she liked reading after all. She practically had a breakdown after she was trapped in a canyon (compared to the "confident and cool" Rainbow everypony knows). You think she'd apologize to Applejack, ever?

Rainbow has shown concern for Applejack before, notably during The Last Roundup when she scolded Applejack over running away, used Pinkie to get her to talk, and almost cried over her at the end. It's obvious Rainbow has problems expressing certain emotions. And this is something that Applejack understands, which is why she's the one to initiate conversations and what not.

It's a complicated relationship on the outside, I'll admit to that.

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-06 01:09:36 +0000 UTC]

Actually, Rainbow has intentionally wronged Applejack SEVERAL times. She cheated her in the Iron Pony and Running of the Leaves competitions, she put off helping her at Sweet Apple Acres in favor of napping at Sweet Apple Acres, her pursuit of AJ in Last Roundup was a group-mentality and she was overly confrontational, she started the riot at Sweet Apple Acres over some cider, she pushed for her family's town to be upended, and she belittled AJ in Mare Do-Well, just to name a few.

If Rainbow was really such a good friend to AJ, she would be able to put aside her obnoxious behavior and stubborn pride for her. So far, she's only done that for Twilight (Read It and Weep), Fluttershy (Hurricane Fluttershy), and Pinkie Pie (Griffon the Brush-Off). Never Applejack.

Rainbow crying in The Last Roundup wasn't because of Applejack, it was because of Fluttershy's sentimentality. "If you don't come back, we'll never be able to fix the hole in our hearts," anyone? There are no problems for Rainbow expressing her feelings. What you see is what you get with her. The only pony you can really argue she has a complex relationship with is Fluttershy, whom I'd argue is, in fact, her best friend, if not Pinkie Pie.

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-06 02:07:28 +0000 UTC]

The Iron Pony competition doesn't count as wronging Applejack. It was a friendly competition between the two that Rainbow took a bit too far, yes, but Applejack didn't lose anything from it. I don't see how Rainbow started a riot over the cider either; there was always a shortage of cider and an attitude over it.

Last Roundup may have been a group-mentality thing, but she still obviously cared. It just can't be expected of Rainbow to go out and do something on her own that might conflict with the image she puts up.

I wouldn't say she's put aside her obnoxiousness and stubborn pride for the others. She brushed off the topic with Twilight, she showed constant annoyance towards Fluttershy (needing her for her own gains). She also kept brushing Pinkie off, choosing Gilda over her every time until she saw how Gilda really was. Which brings up a point; if Rainbow had been friends with Gilda since she was a little filly, it could explain why she tries to be "tough". Being around Gilda for so long could have fostered that mentality, something that is hard to kick once it's there. Rainbow is not the "what you see is what you get" type. There's more to her.

Rainbow crying at all, especially over Fluttershy's sentiments over Applejack, would show that she does care more than she might let on. And I don't know if I'd say Pinkie or Fluttershy are her best friends; Rainbow seems to be constantly annoyed by the two. Fluttershy's extreme shyness/weakness or "ignorance" towards Rainbow's likes (when finding her a pet, for example) or Pinkie's general attitude. "You know Pinkie Pie, you're not as annoying as I thought". She has never expressed these feelings towards Applejack.

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-06 03:36:17 +0000 UTC]

The Iron Pony does actually count because you don't cheat your friends, even in a friendly competition. You saw how unhappy Applejack was with her and Rainbow didn't care. Applejack lost face in that competition. Some friend RD was.

Rainbow started a riot by standing up in front of a mess of other unhappy ponies and led the angry riot against AJ and her family. A friend doesn't do that.

Rainbow Dash did put aside her jerky attitude to others. She apologized to Twilight for calling reading an "egghead" hobby and for mocking her personally, she showed genuine concern for Fluttershy to the point where she didn't care about the tornado record and just wanted to cheer her friend on, and the only time she brushed off Pinkie Pie was before they shared a love of pranks and when she wanted to hang out with Gilda because she "just got into town." After that, it was Gilda's doing that Rainbow couldn't hang out with Pinkie Pie, not Rainbow's doing. In fact, Rainbow Dash stood up for Pinkie Pie when she was being ran down by Gilda ON HER OWN. Not because others were doing so going to do so too. Rainbow Dash has done NOTHING of this nature towards Applejack.

I'm not trying to say that there isn't ANY friendship between AJ and Rainbow, but Rainbow has been a very poor friend to AJ throughout the series. This cannot be denied. Rainbow and Pinkie share a love of causing mischief and pranks. Yes, sometimes she's annoyed when she interferes with her own personal gain (SSCS3K), attesting to her generally selfish nature, but the two have actually had frequent moments of genuine friendship which far outweigh any problems they have. As for Fluttershy, the two have been shown to have gone back a long way and Rainbow was more than willing to stand up for her not only in the past, but also went to bat for her in the present when she needed confidence. If you've seen Hurricane Fluttershy, you'll have seen she's shown genuine friendship, thinking more about Fluttershy's confidence and hoped to help her conquer her fears. Yes, there was a bit of personal gain for her at stake, but in this case, she actually took personal initiative to stand up for somepony, and it wasn't Applejack. It was Fluttershy.

As for Rainbow being annoyed with Fluttershy over finding a pet, despite it all, she still trusted her to show her pets and, eventually, was grateful for the selection with "so many choices / and such riches aplenty." The closest we've ever gotten with that between Rainbow and AJ is in Return of Harmony when Rainbow told AJ she wasn't going to abandon Ponyville, but even then, it was Ponyville. Not AJ on a personal level.

No, she's never expressed annoyance with Applejack. She's just expressed unconcern, disdain, greed, malice, and anger towards her. Unlike the others in most cases, Rainbow's never truly made it right with Applejack for Applejack's sake. Not on her own, at least.

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-06 11:12:38 +0000 UTC]

Friends do cheat eachother and argue, especially if it's over something they're passionate about. They aren't perfect, they have their faults.

She's never done anything on her own towards Applejack because Applejack doesn't need it; Applejack is less fragile than Pinkie or Fluttershy are. That was also a completely different situation. Rainbow was the one who pranked Gilda, and Gilda was about to claw Pinkie's eyes out for it. She'd never let somepony else take a fall for her. Also, Rainbow was as much involved in denying Pinkie as Gilda was. She chose Gilda, saying they would "do stuff later".

I have seen Hurricane Fluttershy, and while she comes around eventually, she was still acting rudely. It was only after Fluttershy had shown she was badly hurt that Rainbow toned it down a bit and showed concern for. Again, Applejack is in no way fragile as Fluttershy and doesn't need her hoof held.

It wasn't so much that she trusted Fluttershy to show her pets. She was dragged into it, after much protesting and making a scene about how she's "too cool and a badass" to have a pet. She wouldn't have turned Fluttershy down, at the risk of hurting her. Then it became an opportunity to boost her ego, so.

Rainbow will never fully admit she did something wrong, not to Applejack. She would "lose face" if she did. They reconcile misunderstandings or differences in their own way (IE: end of Fall Weather Friends). Not everything needs to be said or expressed in words, or directly.


Looking back on this conversation, this is why Rainbow is my least favorite. She's...such a douche

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-07 00:08:24 +0000 UTC]

Friends do NOT cheat one another out of spite and self-gain like Rainbow Dash did. NO friends do that to one another.

I'm not saying AJ is as fragile as Fluttershy, but she's also somepony who does need help every so often, and the only pony who really steps forth to do so is Twilight Sparkle. You don't need to be "fragile" to get help from friends.

Regardless of how Rainbow reacted to Gilda in Pinkie's defense, it showed that she is capable of standing up for her friends when they need her on an individual level. The only one she's never done that for is Applejack. Maybe the opportunity has never arisen, oh, wait, yes it has, several times.

Rainbow Dash could have just as easily left Fluttershy's cottage, but she stuck around and gave her the benefit of the doubt. Yet she didn't have the loyalty in her to help AJ with farmwork when she asked for help, making out an out-and-out lie to her, then sleeping in one of her trees at Sweet Apple Acres. There was no ego to be gained from Rainbow staying at the cottage. She wanted a pet, Fluttershy was offering, Fluttershy is a friend, so she stayed to hear her out, even being talked down from actually leaving when Fluttershy wasn't getting it at first, which was purely plot-constructive in the name of a catchy song.

Rainbow Dash HAS actually admitted to doing wrong on two occasions in particular that come to mind. First was in Read It and Weep when she apologized to Twilight Sparkle over knocking reading, something that is almost completely contradictory to her character at that point in front of everypony. She also admitted she was wrong for eating some of the MMMM in MMMMystery on the Friendship Express. Rainbow Dash CAN admit to wrongdoing.

And she never actually reconciled with AJ in Fall Weather Friends. At least, they didn't further their friendship any. And she certainly didn't apologize for cheating AJ. In fact, she didn't even apologize to Princess Celestia for the way she acted. Applejack did for both of them.

See, that's the thing. I like Rainbow Dash, but I LOVE the other five, especially Applejack who, as you might be able to guess, is my favorite character in the show, being the heart of the Mane 6 and a big sister to all of them. I want to love Rainbow that same way, but it just doesn't seem like she wants to grow. I can appreciate a good foil as much as the next fan, but Rainbow Dash hasn't quite developed that arc as much as I'd like to see it.

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-07 05:08:44 +0000 UTC]

The thing is that Applejack immediately denies any help. Twilight in particular had to keep pestering her about it until it became apparent to Applejack that she couldn't handle the task after all. She has never asked for help, only accepted it and only when it was absolutely required.

Apologizing over books and cake is not on the same level as cheating or whatever else she may have done with Applejack. She didn't even consider it cheating, so why would she feel the need to apologize? As for Rainbow not helping Applejack with work, this is surprising? She is always seen sleeping unless it's something she is interested in. What physical work has she ever done? To my knowledge, she: hasn't helped Twilight with the library, Fluttershy with her animals, Pinkie with maintaining the store (or even help babysit) and she avoids Rarity.

[link] I'd say that's pretty reconciled. They both saw that they took it too far, and forgot about it. Applejack may have initiated it, and admitted wrongdoing for them both, but Rainbow agreed to it. She got to have her cake and eat it too. That's how she is.

This is why I've said they have a complicated relationship. Rainbow is not a saint by any means, but they do understand eachother in the end. Their own, special understanding. Rainbow would be there for Applejack if the situation really warranted it. Maybe I'm wrong after all. But the fandom itself has taken to the idea of pairing these two as "best friends", even to the point of their deaths. Why would that be?

Friendship has multiple ways of showing itself.

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-07 17:35:27 +0000 UTC]

Yes, Applejack /was/ being stubborn... in an early episode where she grew as a character from. In Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 when she realized she and her family were in over their heads, she gladly accepted the help, showing that she grew from Applebuck Season.

No, apologizing over reading and the cake /is/ on the same level. Reading is something Twilight Sparkle absolutely loves and Rainbow insulting it obviously wouldn't sit well with Twilight. The cake was a confection months in the making and Pinkie Pie took on the important responsibility of guarding it for the Cakes, only to have Rainbow (along with Rarity and Fluttershy) chowing down on it.

When did Rainbow help somepony with physical labor? Very next episode, in fact, when she joined Rarity, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, and Twilight Sparkle in helping out with Applebuck Season at the episode's conclusion. One episode after she deliberately turned down Applejack's help request only to sleep at the acres, practically right in front of her. One can assume that it wasn't Applejack who asked her for help, but Twilight Sparkle who rallied her and the others to come help out.

Incidentally, Rainbow Dash HAS helped out Pinkie Pie and Rarity. She helped Pinkie Pie set up some pranks and posed for Rarity in dress design on at least two occasions. No, she's not the most helpful pony, but she has been shown to be willing to join in and help out with a friend, even if it drives her to absolute boredom like her first time posing for Rarity.

All Rainbow agreed to was going on another run. She didn't even nod when AJ was apologizing to Princess Celestia for the way they acted. While they may have put the cheating one another behind them, at least for an episode, Rainbow was hardly convincing in having learned her lesson and I wouldn't put it past her going against Applejack in a terrible way to get what she wants like, oh say, in Over a Barrel when she tried to make AJ's family in Appleoosa up and move without hearing the Appleoosians side. You'd think the "Element of Loyalty" would have taken her friend's family into consideration when hearing the buffalo's side of the story. It also shows me she didn't really grow much from Fall Weather Friends. But maybe in the end that describes Rainbow Dash towards AJ best when it comes to friendship. A fair-weather friend.

Or maybe it's AJ's "The loyalest of friends" speech?

Personally, if being an off-putting jerk is Rainbow's way of showing friendship, then I've got to say, it's not really changing my mind about her one darn bit. She's a lousy friend. And as far as the brony fandom taking the idea of these two being a pair of absolute best friends, then I'm sorry to say it, but the fandom is wrong. For my money, it goes in a circle that can be looked at clockwise or counterclockwise. This circle, showing both a best friend and a potential alternate best friend within this group of friends. (Again, not denying AJ and Rainbow are friends, it's just that they aren't very good friends in the slightest.)

Applejack - Twilight Sparkle - Pinkie Pie - Rainbow Dash - Fluttershy - Rarity - then back to Applejack.

And yes, I sincerely do believe that Rarity is a better friend towards Applejack than Rainbow Dash is. Although, admittedly, I think a case can be made that Pinkie Pie or Fluttershy could also be that "other best friend" to Applejack, but there's been honestly little between them. And, yes, a case can be made that Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy could be a pair of best friends too.

But this is really something where it boils down to for me. We've seen just about every possible pair show genuine, true, best friend-esque friendship EXCEPT for Rainbow/AJ and Rainbow/Rarity.

Yes, friendship has multiple ways of showing itself. Now if only Rainbow would pick one.

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-08 08:20:23 +0000 UTC]

I have to admit, it's beginning to get difficult to write a good response in favor of their friendship. I'm running out of things to say and I don't want to fall back on the previously mentioned *cough*

How can you say she grew from Applebuck Season when she basically did it again during The Last Roundup? Fleeing Ponyville and hiding from/ignoring the others because she couldn't get the money to fix town hall (or win first place). She could have easily gotten help from the others, but opted out and even told them to go home. She was forced to accept help during SSC6k because it meant the loss of her home if she hadn't. I'll admit she learned, but those old ways still lay underneath, just a bit more refined. You don't suppose Rainbow could be the same in that regard?

It's not the same. As before, Twilight and Pinkie are on a different level than Applejack. An apology is something they have to hear or the air won't be cleared. In the case of the cake, they found her feather. And since she was the only blue pegasus there... admit the truth or be known to your friends as a liar? At least we know she has some sort of moral compass. And that's after she denied it at first!

Alright, she helped at the end of that episode after Applejack nearly had a breakdown. What else? Pranks are something she's interested in and require no real work. I don't remember her posing for Rarity; did she do it because she wanted to or was she suckered into it by Rarity's....charm. Was she happy about posing for her, or did she high-tail it out of there after? What I'm looking for is real labor. Has she helped clean Twilight's library? Feed Fluttershy's animals, or clean their mess up, or even move them around when required? I noticed a certain pony missing when Fluttershy moved some frogs to a bog (Feeling Pinkie Keen). Her work during Winter Wrap Up would count but then again, that's something she enjoys. She is selfish, it's not something she does with Applejack alone.

Agreeing for another run, the way it was shown indicates she had gotten over her petty desire to be number one (at that time). It all comes down to her personality. She is not the one to admit defeat, shame or that she was wrong. Look at how in denial she was at the end of Mare Do Well when she thought one pony was actually three. Look at how she refused to be out-shined by another, to the point of causing trouble. There have been certain cases where she's admitted to being wrong, yes. But overall, she's the "confident and awesome" pony that she wants everypony to think they know.

Aha, now this is where it gets murky. Neither side listened to the other over the fate of Appleoosa. It was something they were suddenly thrust into, with no time to view the whole thing. Applejack and Rainbow Dash both thought they were doing what's right for their side; Rainbow advocating for the original denizens of that land (and morality of being "kicked off"), and Applejack for her family and those who worked hard to build Appleoosa. Plus, you know, they kinda stole her tree.

Rainbow didn't grow much at all during Season 1. They worked on her during Season 2, making her more friendly but retaining her stubborn, selfish and obnoxious side. And hopefully we'll see more in Season 3, especially with Applejack. I'd love to see them actually define their friendship. Unless something dramatic happens, I don't see her displaying an outpouring of love to any pony. Maybe add a side definition to "best friend" for these two

"She's like a big sister" is what keeps coming to mind. That's exactly how I'd describe her position in the group. So it's hard to say if Applejack would even have a best friend in the first place.

Rainbow has chosen her way of showing friendship, btw. Imagine a little boy who keeps hitting a girl because he likes her

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-09 17:01:19 +0000 UTC]

Denying help when she needed it and running away because she didn't want to let her friends down are two TOTALLY different things. Yes, she does have her pride, but she's since bent her pride to grow as a pony. "Sure Ah could have told you that Ah learned to count on my friends or how they're always there for me, but the truth is... Ah knew that already too!" Knew that from Applebuck Season.

Apologizing to a friend when you've wronged them isn't some secondary language for certain friends. If you still value them as friends and you upset them, you apologize to them. It's as simple as that. A true friend goes out of their way for a true friend. Rainbow has only ever truly done that for Fluttershy.

The point about helping the others willingly is showing that she's capable of doing so, but seems to actively choose not to when it comes to AJ and the SAA chores. Great friend, huh? The closest she's ever gone out of her way for AJ for was for her going away/welcome back party, which no doubt was organized by The Mayor or Twilight Sparkle respectively. That can hardly be considered taking individual initiative for AJ, though, as everypony was involved in it, even Derpy (who will ALWAYS be Derpy).

She posed for Rarity twice. Once in "Swarm of the Century," although she did become bored after a while, yet stuck with it, and again in "Suited for Success."

I'm not saying she isn't selfish with other ponies, but the point I've been trying to make is that the idea of AJ and Rainbow being best friends is honestly head-tilting. Rainbow has actually SHOWN friendship to the others, even Spike, but not AJ.

We're in general agreement over the Mare Do-Well thing. She was very off-putting. Even worse was when she made AJ pose with her for pictures under the pretense that it would help a pony who was so beneath her. I think this is one of the most telling things when it comes to her relationship with AJ. This wasn't the act of ponies who are true friends it was the act of a pony who, honestly, thinks very little of another pony to the point of thinking she needed something like that to make her life complete.

The fact that AJ and Rainbow didn't listen to one another over the Appleoosa incident, at all, should be a testament that these aren't the best of friends in the slightest. The writers realized this and positioned these two to butt heads to help create the episode's conflict. No one would question the two worst of friends being on one another's case.

On a side note, I was pretty ticked off with that episode's final fight scene. Notice that Applejack was absent during just about all of it, yet Rarity and Fluttershy, who arguably had little to no stake in the conflict, were in just about every Mane-inclusive scene?

Rainbow Dash did grow in Season 2, particularly with Fluttershy and Twilight. However, I highly doubt she will get too much more time with AJ, and if she does, I doubt it'll be pleasant. You know who Rainbow Dash needs more time with? Rarity. Just as Applejack needs more time with Fluttershy. The definition of AJ and Rainbow is pretty much set. They tolerate one another, but their hyper-competitiveness and Rainbow Dash's ego keeps them from being true friends in the end. Rainbow's best friend is either Fluttershy or Pinkie Pie while Applejack's are either Twilight Sparkle, Pinkie Pie, or even Rarity stands as an option.

...then again, Pinkie Pie is everypony's best friend in the group, isn't she?

The little boy who keeps hitting a girl because he likes her has a VERY poor idea of how to actually make friends or attract a girl. Case in point with Rainbow Dash. Both have a LOT of growing up to do and need to be a lot less self-centered.

But before we go any further, let me just say that again, I understand having foils in the group. Each one can be a foil to another, but in the name of true character growth and storytelling, I do accept it. However, as it stands now, Rainbow Dash probably has the most growing to do while AJ probably has the least. It might explain why she's often brushed to the side because she started off as an already so-well developed character, what with being such a family-minded mare.

...I still want an Applejack-solo song this season, and I hope it's a beautiful country ballad. >.>

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-11 02:27:17 +0000 UTC]

She still denied any help. The point is that they don't really change; Applejack will continue to refuse help as she's independent and wants to do it herself. And Rainbow will continue to be self-centered, rude and lazy. Little gains may be made, but it remains the same at its core.

"certain friends" are the keywords here. It's easier for Rainbow to apologize to Fluttershy than it would be Applejack, or even Rarity. It might as well be second language for a pony so hellbent on being #1 and hardly considers another's feelings. Is Applejack even looking for affection from Rainbow in the first place?

The thing with Appleoosa is that AJ/RD are the perfect characters for such a plot. Who else could they have used? Just because they had their arguments, doesn't mean they can't be or aren't more than "just friends". They're similar to eachother in personality, but then they aren't. This may be what makes the fandom pair them so much.

I hope they get some more time together. I assume you saw Season 3's first episode today? They had some moments there. As expected, Applejack had to calm Rainbow down and keep her from flying off the handle. They even high-fived (er, hoof'd) after teasing Rarity. See? Best of friends!

Rainbow and Rarity could use some time together but that might be difficult to pull off. They are polar opposites; everything that Rarity enjoys, Rainbow despises and vice versa. It'd be interesting to see the writers pull that off though. And yes, Pinkie is everypony's best friend, even if they don't want it lol.

It's funny you bring that up, because I was going to mention it last post. Applejack is by far the most fleshed-out character in terms of internal struggles. Every other pony has some kind of fear or complication they're trying to overcome, whereas Applejack has pretty much conquered hers and is there for support. It would explain why she's out-shined even in her own episodes.

Rainbow has the most to grow, especially with her self-image problems. Maybe we'll see Applejack help her overcome some of that and grow their relationship more.

Also, Applejack better get a beautiful song in S3. Even Rainbow has more songs/duets than the poor filly.

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-11 03:06:52 +0000 UTC]

All right, let's run through this.

AJ NEVER denied any help in Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 or in The Last Roundup. She told Twilight in SSCS6K that she and the family were confident in their cider-making abilities when Twilight asked if she was sure about the contest. The first time Twilight offered help, she gladly accepted it, a far cry from Applebuck Season. In The Last Roundup, it wasn't that she denied help (in fact, she allowed the others to help her with her cherry duties, albeit begrudgingly). All she did was refuse to tell them why she was acting the way she was. Applejack is one of the best examples of characters in the show who have shown true growth (although a case can be made for Rarity or Twilight Sparkle, too).

Everyone wants to be treated like a friend, even rough and tumble friends. Applejack is somepony who doesn't shun affection. She's gotten it from her family, from Twilight, from Fluttershy, from Spike, and big time from Rarity. Rainbow Dash on the other hand... yeah, she's the one who probably isn't looking for "affection" from anyone to begin with.

Again, I say, the fandom is wrong because there seems to be a large lack of respect between the two. They strike me as friends by virtue of mutual friends. It's kind of why I'm interested to see the background of AJ and Fluttershy. It might explain a few things there.

Or, you know, it could just be Pinkie Pie bringing everypony together.

Ah, yes, high-hooves make for best friends. Which is why she's also high-hooved Twilight and Rarity in the past.

Polar opposites make for great character arcing, which is why I think AJ pairs GREAT with Twilight and Rarity. AJ is a simple, down-to-earth pony whereas Twilight is extremely detailed and thorough while Rarity is a refined fashion pony. Yet both of them together have had more affectionate scenes with AJ separate than most any other pony in the series.

"Good things are better when they're a... Rarity."

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-11 09:10:46 +0000 UTC]

[link]

She avoided telling them the truth, but there was more to it than that. If she were open to help in fixing town hall, which became the goal of her trip, she could have easily asked the others. But she didn't; she was determined to do it on her own, just like Applebuck Season. That was the whole point of her working on a cherry orchard alone. She would have denied their help with the cherries if she had a say in it.

Before Rarity and Applejack had their episode together, they were pretty opposite. Rarity hated getting dirty, and Applejack hated being fancy or too neat. They grew in those regards, but retained their personalities; Rarity avoids getting dirty and Applejack avoids being fancied up. (I think) that's what happened with Rainbow as well, we just don't see it. She could show affection to Applejack, but her nature takes over instead. She still acts her old self with Fluttershy (until the whimpering begins), so why not with AJ?

Fine, know what? I know when I've been bested. Rainbow Dash is an awful friend to Applejack and the entire idea of them being best friends should be killed and buried. Let her go be friends with somepony else! Happy now? But as soon as we see more from the writers, I'm going to revive this little discussion of ours

(glad to see Fluttershy's a favorite of yours as well, btw)

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-11 19:06:37 +0000 UTC]

There WAS more to AJ running away. "After that big ol' sendoff Ponyville gave me, Ah couldn't come back empty handed. Ah couldn't come back a failure." This was the grounds of AJ's departure. The town was counting on her and her alone to get the money to fix town hall. This wasn't just a case of stubbornly getting herself into trouble, but honest burden she felt.

True on AJ and Rarity, although Rarity /has/ shown signs of willing to do dirty things, particularly if it means time with her beloved sister, Sweetie Belle... within reason.

As for AJ not wanting to be fancied up, she still knows when the time calls for it, such as with the Grand Galloping Gala and the Royal Wedding. By the way, I still say AJ had the best bridesmaid dress.

Um, I'm actually NOT happy because, despite my attempts at proving my point, I DON'T want to say that Rainbow Dash is an awful friend to ANYONE. My criticism in the end isn't with the fanbase for wanting AJ and Rainbow to be friends, but with the writers who haven't really shown it and help make that circle complete. The Mane 6 are made to be the very best of friends. While I'm completely fine with having foils in that group that make contrast and kep things interesting, I'd like it to be contrasted with showing true friendship. The Season 3 premiere was WONDERFUL to see AJ and Rainbow co-operating and joining in together for some fun, but it's something I'd have liked to have seen more often throughout the series without their competitiveness taking over. I genuinely hope we see more of that, I really do. I WANT to say they're good friends and if this keeps up, I won't have any problems saying it. My issue was, prior to the Season 3 premiere, that kind of interaction was sorely missing. The idea of these two being better friends shouldn't be given up on and it thrilled me to see these two being so friendly for a change. It gives me high hopes to seeing more between AJ/Fluttershy and Rainbow/Rarity.

Long story short: I WANT to lose my argument!

But maybe that's part of the growth for all six of them? They ARE their elements. Magic, laughter, kindness, generosity, honesty, and loyalty, but there are many parts to this that they each need to grow into and discover. Pinkie needs to know WHEN to laugh, Fluttershy needs to remember that she needs to be kind to herself, Rarity needs to learn that generosity means more than her own view of what's generous, Applejack needs to learn to be honest with herself (although she's made the most strides in that regard), Rainbow Dash needs to show loyalty to more than just her own views and ambitions, and Twilight Sparkle needs to remember that "magic makes it all complete" and bring the magic of friendship together. This is one of the things that interests me most in the show. Going beyond what one would think of when it comes to the Elements of Harmony. It's why I appreciate the deepness of these characters and am enjoying watching them grow before my eyes.

Fluttershy used to be my absolute favorite of the six, but after watching all of Season 1, AJ's heart and well-rounded character won me over. Season 2 helped Rarity jump Fluttershy for the #2 spot, but Fluttershy still holds a very dear #3. If it's any consolation to her, 3 is my favorite number.

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Lorntak In reply to MasterGraveheart [2012-11-12 11:28:10 +0000 UTC]

Bah, nitpicking details!

Oh, I didn't actually mean if you were happy or not. I guess I don't know how to put it then; the writers have shown us a good amount of ability on RD's part with AJ, albeit not enough and in non-direct ways. A few things about Last Roundup that weren't pointed out in our discussion:

Rainbow was the first to suggest finding Applejack, the first to voice concern over not being able to find her, the first to push her into talking (even blackmailing her) and chasing her down at the end. She even comforted her over losing; "You're still Number 1 in our books". She was determined to get an answer and bring her home.

Compare this to Hurricane Fluttershy. Rainbow never chased after Fluttershy. She showed sadness and concern, but never acted on it. She tried to cheer her up but failed, so she quit trying. Sweet and innocent Fluttershy had to do everything on her own, and partly because she felt a need to make Rainbow proud of her.

So who'd she show more friendship and effort towards? If Rainbow cared about Fluttershy like you've suggested, she would have put her first. I mean, they have been friends since they were little fillies.

The one time somepony emotionally needed her, an old friend at that, and she failed. Especially when that friend would have been there for her no matter what. That is a lot more messed up than the minor things she's done to Applejack. And yet...





I've said it before. Rainbow shows (enough) affection in her own, angry sort of way and Applejack understands. I would LOVE to see them relax their competitiveness so they can truly connect (like AJ/Rarity) but it isn't going to happen. That's the thing! Their competitiveness is their friendship, and it's unique to them. It's an odd way of doing it but it works. I agree with your second to last paragraph as well.

Twilight used to be my favorite until I saw how great Applejack was halfway into S1. Then Fluttershy. S2 helped somewhat with my views on Rarity and RD but it wasn't enough. Humility is something they both desperately need.

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MasterGraveheart In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-13 20:46:29 +0000 UTC]

Actually, Rainbow went after Fluttershy TWICE before her duties as the weather pony in charge of Ponyville forced her to be drawn away, but she vocally showed her genuine concern for her, driving Rainbow to a place of sorrow where she rarely goes to. Not even Applejack was able to do that.

On that same note, remember, Rainbow Dash was in a group-mentality at the time, knowing that it was what they were ALL thinking. After all, none of them questioned it, not even diminutive Fluttershy. (Of course, Rainbow's immediate "go after her" attitude and the lack of protest can both also be attested to it simply being cut down for time's sake. They need to fit everything into 21 minutes or so, after all. In a sense, Rainbow Dash was used to be the spontaneous voice of the Mane 6 to get the story out to Dodge Junction/City quickly. Rainbow Dash's hostile attitude was more her nature than specifically towards Applejack as seen in, well, every Rainbow Dash episode ever.

But you're bringing on a point. Rainbow Dash /did/ fail Fluttershy and that showed at her frustration. She was at a loss as to what to do. She knew Fluttershy tried her best and despite everything, she couldn't talk her into joining in despite her shortcomings. It isn't Rainbow's strength, she realized it, and her frustration boiled over. In many ways, Fluttershy can be the most stubborn of the group.

And like I've mentioned, I don't see Rainbow's affection through her aggression, but rather when she lowers her shields and reveals her softer self. The only ponies who have ever really done that were Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie. I won't discount that AJ and Rainbow COULD have their friendship through competition, but Rainbow's poor sportsponyship really puts a black eye on that aim. Cheating AJ, kicking her while she's down, straight up mocking her, that really hurts things in that regard. What it shows is that Rainbow puts winning above any potential friend. And that's too bad.

Applejack actually DOES have humility as shown in Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000. Ignoring the poor-quality cider, she admitted defeat, even at the cost of her family's livelihoods. Rarity got her humility in Sisterhooves Social when she saw first-hoof what a heel she'd been to her sister and was willing to get REALLY dirty for her. Rainbow still needs her humbling.

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Lorntak In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-06 02:15:47 +0000 UTC]

Point is: Rainbow is a jerk to everypony (look at her and Scootaloo). But Applejack seems to be the only one who understands it, respects it, and gets a challenge out of it. The others are ignorant to it; Rarity doesn't spend enough time with her, Twilight thinks whatever, Fluttershy is too kind hearted and believes herself to be at fault of any problem, and Pinkie is Pinkie.

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Stabzor In reply to Lorntak [2012-11-05 10:21:31 +0000 UTC]

This. Thank you

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