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Batman and all related indicia are trademarks of DC Comics, Inc. and are reproduced for historical purposes only. This a collage taking a look at the history of Batman's [and Robin's] controversial causing deaths, part 5, including intentional killings, intentionally causing deaths, and attempted killings, and any accidental killings, too, in the 1940 and 1941 comics written by Bill Finger, art by Bob Kane Jerry Robinson and George Roussos. This is also proof that the claim that Batman's never caused any deaths in the comics is total crap. And even Robin caused deaths, too. The original Batman had no "no-gun rule, no-kill rule." He didn't have any rules. He was a mysterious vigilante, based on the gun-totting Shadow and lethal Zorro. The Michael Keaton type Batman. Far from the Adam West image of Batman. And Robin was based on Robin Hood. Far from the Burt Ward image of Robin. Realistically, Batman wouldn't even be able to avoid causing deaths on occasion in his war on crime, and neither would Robin. People die in war. But Batman certainly never was a murderer. Batman committed justifiable homicide in using deadly force against criminal assailants [attackers, assaulters] intent on either killing or causing serious bodily injury to Batman, and also to innocent victims. Batman only caused deaths in self defense and in defense of innocent victims. Batman deliberately caused the deaths of criminals only when he regarded it warranted, and seemingly as a last resort, but he also had no remorse for them at all.These are scans from times Batman [and Robin] caused the deaths of criminals in the 1940 and 1941 comics. Robin causes a guy to accidentally shoot himself in the head in Batman #6 (1941) "The Secret of the Iron Jungle" written by Bill Finger and art by Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson and George Roussos. Reprinted in Batman: The Dark Knight Archives vol. 2 (1995) and Batman Chronicles vol. 7 (2007).
Batman kicks a guy off a rooftop apparently to his death in Batman #3 (1940) "The Crime School for Boys" written by Bill Finger and art by Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson and George Roussos. Reprinted in Batman: The Dark Knight Archives vol. 1 (1992) and Batman Chronicles vol. 2 (2006).
Batman knocks a guy unconscious and causes the guy to crash his car into a telephone pole, apparently killing the guy, and the telephone pole is even breaking and collapsing on top of the guy and the car, in Detective Comics #47 (1941) "Money Can't Buy Happiness" written by Bill Finger and art by Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson and George Roussos. Reprinted in Batman Archives vol. 1 (1990) and Batman Chronicles vol. 3 (2007).
Batman kicks Professor Henry Ross/Professor Radium off a shipyard into the river where he sank and drowned in Batman #8 (1941) "The Strange Case of Professor Radium" written by Bill Finger and art by Bob Kane, Jerry Robinson and George Roussos. Reprinted in Batman Archives vol. 2 (1995) and Batman Chronicles vol. 5 (2008).
It was editorial censorship by Whitney Ellsworth that forced a "no-gun rule, no-kill rule" upon the creators of Batman in 1941 with the creation of an editorial advisory board code of conduct that all DC writers and artists were suppose to follow, but Batman and Robin causing deaths was still allowed in 1941 by the editor since Batman and Robin technically weren't straight up killing them directly, but still deliberately caused deaths, until eventually even that wasn't allowed.
As former Timely/Atlas/Marvel editor Stan Lee said in the documentary Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked (2003) about National/DC/All-American's classic characters and Timely/Atlas/Marvel's classic characters, "The publishers began to feel that they were in charge of these characters. The characters became cooperate characters controlled more by the cooperation."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygx_rU…
An Editorial Advisory Board was created by DC comics editorial director Whitney Ellsworth as early as October, 1941 that tried to turn Batman comics into the Adam West type Batman. It's explained in Bob Kane's autobiography Batman & Me (1990): "I never had complete control over the Batman [comic book] strip, and the editors placed increasing limitations on what Bill [Finger] and I could do. In the first year, Batman had been a grim vigilante who operated outside of the law. In several early issues of Detective [Comics] he even carried a gun. We had our first brush with censorship over Batman's use of a gun in BATMAN #1. In one story in that issue he had a machine gun mounted on his Batplane and used it. We didn't think anything was wrong with Batman carrying guns because the Shadow used guns. Bill Finger was called on to the carpet by Whitney Ellsworth. He said 'Never let Batman carry a gun again!' The editors thought that making Batman a 'murderer' would taint his character, and mothers would object. The new editorial policy was to get away from Batman's vigilantism and bring him over to the side of the law. So he was remade as an honorary member of the police. The whole moral climate changed in the 1940-1941 period. You couldn't kill or shot villains anymore. DC prepared it's own comics code which every artist and writer had to follow. He wasn't the Dark Knight anymore with all the censorship. Adam West's Batman was a marvelous spoof, and great for what it was, but it certainly wasn't the definitive Batman. Michael Keaton's Batman conveys the dark, mysterious quality of my early Batman. I was creative consultant. It was film noir of classic proportions. Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne was a tortured philanthropist. And his Batman's awesome presence more than justified Tim Burton's choice of him."
In Cinefex #41 (1989) Tim Burton explained, "I had looked at the Batman encyclopedia [The Encyclopedia of Comic Book Heroes: Batman (1976) by Michael Fleisher about the Golden Age '39 and '40s era Batman comics and the Silver Age '50s and '60s era Batman comics] and found that the mythology contradicts itself - it changes it's own history and has gone through many alterations over the years. So early on, I realized that even if I wanted to be true to the 'real' Batman, there could be substantial argument as to what that really was. We were drawing from the original [Golden Age era Bill Finger and Bob Kane 1939-1940] DC comics strip for inspiration - there was bound to be a certain '40s feeling to it."
www.1989batman.com/2012/03/vin…
This is from the transcript of the 1954 Senate hearings showing the Editorial Board rules that every writer and artist had to follow at DC from 1941 to 1954, enforced by editors Whitney Ellsworth and Jack Schiff ...
EDITORIAL POLICY FOR SUPERMAN DC PUBLICATIONS (1941-1954):
"1. Sex. ─ The inclusion of females in stories is specifically discouraged. Women, when used in plot structure, should be secondary in importance, and should be drawn realistically, without exaggeration of feminine physical qualities.
2. Language. ─ Expessions having reference to the Deity are forbidden. Heroes and other "good” persons must use basically good English, through some slang and other colloquialism may be judiciously employed. Poor grammar is used only by crooks and villains ─ and not always by them.
3. Bloodshed. ─ Characters ─ even villains ─ should never be shown bleeding. No character should be shown being stabbed or shot or otherwise assaulted so that the sanguinary result is visible. Acts of mayhem are specifically forbidden. The picturization of dead bodies is forbidden.
4. Torture. ─ The use of chains, whips, or other such devices is forbidden. Anything having a sexual or sadistic implication is forbidden.
5. Kidnaping. ─ The kidnaping of children is specifically forbidden. The kidnaping of women is discouraged, and must never have any sexual implication.
6. Killing. ─ Heroes should never kill a villain, regardless of the depth of the villainy. The villain, If he is to die, should do so as the result of his own evil machinations. A specific exception may be made in the case of duly constituted officers of the law. The use of lethal weapons by women ─ even villainous women ─ is discouraged.
7. Crime. ─ Crime should be depicted in all cases as sordid and unpleasant. Crime and criminals must never be glamorized. All stories must be written and depicted from the angle of the law ─ never the reverse. Justice must triumph in every case.
In general, the policy of Superman DC Publications is to provide interesting, dramatic, and reasonably exciting entertainment without having recourse to such artificial devices as the use of exaggerated physical manifestations of sex, sexual situations, or situations in which violence is emphasized sadistically. Good people should be good, and bad people bad, without middle ground shading. Good people need not be "stuffy" to be good, but bad people should not be excused. Heroes should act within the law, and for the law."www.thecomicbooks.com/dybwad.h…
[Note with the success of Jerry Siegel's Superman comics and Bud Collyer's Superman voice on radio and the Fleischer Studios Superman cartoons and George Reeves' Superman on television, DC were capitalizing on Superman by calling themselves "Superman DC" at the time in the '40s and '50s, [while the DC stood for Detective Comics] but they were officially called "National Allied Publications, Inc." [in 1935-1936 by Malcolm Wheeler-Nicholson], "Detective Comics, Inc. - DC Publications" [in 1937-1945 by Jack Liebowitz and Harry Donenfeld], also "All-American Publications" [in 1939-1944 by Max Gaines], "National Comics Publications, Inc. - Superman DC Publications" [in 1946-1960 by Jack Liebowitz and Harry Donenfeld] and "National Periodical Publications" [in 1961-1976 by Jack Liebowitz, Irwin Donenfeld, Carmine Infantino and Sol Harrison] before settling on just "DC Comics" [in 1977-2009 by Jenette Kahn, Sol Harrison, Dick Giordano and Paul Levitz] and then "DC Entertainment, Inc." [2009-currently, Warner Bros. trying to capitalize on Disney/Marvel Entertainment's success by rebranding DC as DC Entertainment and rebooting DC's classic superheroes to throw together a new trendy DC movie universe and TV universe in competition with Disney/Marvel Entertainment, by Jeff Robinov, Diane Nelson, Dan DiDio, Jim Lee and Geoff Johns, which is soullessly corporate driven and joylessly forced solely for profit, not organically driven like Marvel's with love, care, warmth and some authenticity to all the classic Marvel superheroes].
The DC Editorial Advisory Board was replaced by the Comics Code Authority rules in 1954 which original rules were enforced on Batman comics under Batman editors Jack Schiff and Julius Schwartz - 1954-1970: "Nudity in any form is prohibited, as is indecent or undue exposure. Suggestive and salacious illustration or suggestive posture is unacceptable. All characters shall be depicted in dress reasonably acceptable to society. Females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities (no large breasts, no large buttocks). Divorce shall not be treated humorously nor represented as desirable. Illicit sex relations are neither to be hinted at or portrayed. Violent love scenes as well as sexual abnormalities are unacceptable. Seduction and rape shall never be shown or suggested. Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals. No comics shall explicitly present the unique details and methods of a crime. Policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions shall never be presented in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority. In every instance good shall triumph over evil and the criminal punished for his misdeeds. Scenes of excessive violence shall be prohibited. Scenes of brutal torture, excessive and unnecessary knife and gun play, physical agony, gory and gruesome crime shall be eliminated. No unique or unusual methods of concealing weapons shall be shown. Instances of law enforcement officers dying as a result of a criminal's activities should be discouraged. The crime of kidnapping shall never be portrayed in any detail, nor shall any profit accrue to the abductor or kidnapper. The criminal or the kidnapper must be punished in every case. The letter of the word "crime" on a comics magazine shall never be appreciably greater than the other words contained in the title. The word "crime" shall never appear alone on a cover. Restraint in the use of the word "crime" in titles or sub-titles shall be exercised. No comics magazine shall use the word horror or terror in its title. All scenes of horror, excessive bloodshed, gory or gruesome crimes, depravity, lust, sadism, masochism shall not be permitted. All lurid, unsavory, gruesome illustrations shall be eliminated. Inclusion of stories dealing with evil shall be used or shall be published only where the intent is to illustrate a moral issue and in no case shall evil be presented alluringly nor as to injure the sensibilities of the reader. Scenes dealing with, or instruments associated with walking dead, torture, vampires and vampirism, ghouls, cannibalism and werewolfism are prohibited."
cbldf.org/the-comics-code-of-1…
Writer Denny O'Neil and artist Neal Adams persuaded DC to get the Comics Code changed in 1971 allowing more creative freedom in comics again so drug addition could be shown, Batman could be a vigilante outlaw, corruption of the law could exist, some blood could be shown, the villains could kill, some characters could die, vampiresm, werewolfism, etc. could be shown, so they redarked Batman comics as much as they could in the '70s under Comics Code restrictions.
About Batman #251 (1973) "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge!" reprinted in Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams volume 3 (2005), Denny O'Neil said, "I wondered if the Comics Code would let us get away with that many murders in a story, but again, you could never predict the Comics Code, but we didn't hear a peep from them. I was never satisfied with the work I did for Joker. Given the Comics Code there was just no way to make it work. He had to be like Hannibal Lecter in order to be consistent and logical and be the Joker, and he couldn't be that back then. Now with the freedom comics guys have they could probably make it work."
www.wtv-zone.com/silverager/in…
Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns redarkened Batman comics much further free from any Editorial Advisory Board and the Comics Code restrictions. Frank Miller said in The Comics Journal #70 (1982): "The Punisher is an avenger - he's Batman without the lies [the censors] built in. They come from the same root. They're created by the same fears. The same kind of fear I feel every time I ride the subway in New York. You know, it can make you really angry. It can make you want to see criminals die. Like Death Wish [(1974)]. That just by carrying a weapon they have power over you. That all the things that you feel proudest about yourself mean nothing in that context and are no defense for you. That's a really, really terribly frightening feeling. I think that these characters are a response to it. Some of the things happening in the real world are a response to it. The incidences of burglars being killed in the middle of a robbery, and the Guardian Angels...comic book references could clearly be made about them, but they aren't coming from comic books, they're coming from the same place the comic book characters come from. That's part of what super-heroes are about, certainly what super-heroes like Daredevil and Batman are about."
Frank Miller said in Comics Interview #31 (1986): "Batman represents a very powerful specific force that movie-makers attempt to represent with Dirty Harry, Paul Kersey in Death Wish. There are a lot of similarities between the characters. Batman only really works if the world is a malevolent, frightening place. The same is true of Dirty Harry. For instance, Bernard Goetz, in New York, changed the color of New York life for a few weeks. He pulled something up out of what was going on, common to people's emotional states. What he actually did, as far as shooting the four youths, was a crime in itself that would have been very forgettable. But something was implied by it, represented by it. He became a symbol. And with Batman were talking about the epitome of the symbolic character - the will to resist. His methods couldn't be nice. He is essentially a terrorist superhero. Batman has his roots in pulps, specifically the Shadow. Much of what he does to criminals is staged like a horror movie. With the aspect of being like Dracula - coming and going mysteriously. He's the hero who acts like a villain - the epitome of the Dionysian hero. I didn't want to soften him any. As of now, Dirty Harry is a much larger hero because of Eastwood's screen presence. With Batman - he can either become Dirty Harry, or he can become much softer, mushier, nicer, in which case he just doesn't work as a character, and that's what's happened to him. You know, a Rainbow Batman, all kinds of awful stuff got done to the character. If he's one of many clowns going around only fighting criminals in situations where nobody gets hurt, then it all gets that much more preposterous. I see too many pictures of him standing around hospital rooms or standing in restaurants."
Frank Miller said in 1986, "Comics need to get more of an adult readership. They've been stuck in kiddieland for a long time. Those old characters are real American myths, even though they were allowed to fall into disrepair. When they were created in the 1930s, Batman was a very frightening figure, and Superman was a symbol of the common man rising over the Depression. But they lost much of that power, because they've been published every month for 50 years, usually with interchangeable writers and artists. Comics had agreed to be Saturday-morning kid stuff and it's only recently that there's been a revolt against that."
articles.latimes.com/1986-03-1…
In Comic Book Confidential (1988) Frank Miller said, "Batman is a character you can describe in a few seconds. He's parents were murdered by a criminal. He's warring on crime for the rest of his life. His motive is there. He looks great. And he is so simple in his design and his concept that he's open to an incredible number of interpretations. He [Batman] was created in 1938 [1939] I believe, and the character that was created then was just ruthless in his methods, terrifying to criminals. Over the years that got softened and softened because people [editors Whitney Ellsworth and Jack Schiff] started thinking that comic books had to be just for kids and once they decided they were just for kids all of a sudden Batman had to be made much nicer and eventually no kid could relate to him anymore. What I've been trying to do recently [since 1986] is to take the stuff of the old comics and do it in a way that's worth reading for me."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_G7l8…
Frank Miller said, "I felt that superhero comics had really been held back by a misperception that they were just for kids. The comic book world had become so utterly pleasant and safe that the idea of somebody dressing up in tights and fighting crime just seemed beside the point. Batman's got this gorgeous streak of malice running through him that makes him a really exciting character [again]. He's a bad-ass. That's his appeal. He's not a role model. He's not there to tell us all how to behave. He's a scary fantasy."
www.amc.com/talk/2007/06/the-e…
Frank Miller explained in Frank Miller: The Comics Journal Library (2003), "I long ago determined that a character like Batman can only be defined as a terrorist if his motto is striking terror [from the original 1939 origin of Batman: "Criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot, so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the night. Black. Terrible."]. I didn’t want to dodge it and also, I wanted Batman to creep you out. That I wanted from the start. I don’t want you to [necessarily] 'like' this guy. He is a hero, but heroes don’t have to be 'likable'. I mean, if you really look at Sean Connery’s James Bond, he’s charming, he’s brilliant, but he’s really [kinda] a dick. You wouldn’t like him if you met him. My feeling about Batman is that he’s similar in that you’d want him to be there when you’re being mugged, but you [probably] wouldn’t want to have dinner with him. The way he cheers Hawkman on as he crushes Luthor’s skull [in The Dark Knight Strikes Again #3 (2002) "DK2 Part 3" written and drawn by Frank Miller]… for me, it was really the idea coming into its own without the bullshit on top of it being a socially acceptable role model and all of that."
4thletter.net/2009/04/sons-of-…
Batman (1989) producer Michael Uslan explained the motive for Batman (1989) which began it's journey in 1979, "I said, 'My next dream in life, I want to produce a definitive, dark, serious version of Batman as a movie. The way Bob Kane and company really originally intended him back in 1939 - as a creature of the night, someone who stalks criminals from the shadows.' That's what I wanted to do and that's what I set my sights on."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVsdNV…
In Cinefantastique (November 1989) producer Michael Uslan explained the whole original point of Batman (1989), "I began to think, wouldn't it be great to do a definitive Batman movie totally removed from the [Adam West Batman] TV show, totally removed from camp; a version that went back to the original Bob Kane/Bill Finger comic strips."
www.1989batman.com/2013/08/vin…
Producer Michael Uslan: "I only let Tim see the original year of the Bob Kane/Bill Finger run, up until the time that Robin was introduced. I showed him the Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers and the Neal Adams/Denny O'Neil stories. My biggest fear was that somehow Tim would get hold of the campiest [Silver Age] Batman comics and then where would we be?"
www.batman-on-film.com/intervi…
Tim Burton said in the Batman DVD commentary, "I knew right away that I wanted to be more pure to what the comic book was originally."
Batman (1989) script writer Sam Hamm explained, "The idea that interested us most was to go back to the original Bob Kane notion...to go dark, mysteriouso meant that we're going back to the roots of the character. Were pairing away all the detours the character has [been] taken over the years, and zero in on what this original concept was." Batman (1989) director Tim Burton explained, "Sam's [Sam Hamm's] approach I thought was really the right thing. Just in the same vain as those old comics."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqnWXa…
In Batman (1989) script writer Sam Hamm's interview in the 1989 Comics Interview Super-Special on Batman screenwriter Sam Hamm explained, "if you want to go back to the roots of the character, back to when he was created, he did carry a gun. In the early comics there are scenes where he's pulling out the old .38 automatic and popping guys."
stevenely.deviantart.com/art/S…
Robert Wuhl [Alexander Knox] explained in Starlog #142 (1989) and Starlog Yearbook (1989), "[Michael Keaton's] Batman is closer to early James Bond [than to Adam West's Batman]. When you watch Dr. No [(1962)], and you watch From Russia With Love [(1963)], Sean Connery's James Bond was a killer. And [Michael Keaton's] Batman has that to him. I mean, in a world infested with criminals, like Dirty Harry [(1971)], you go after the criminals! You fight fire with fire! That's what he [Michael Keaton's Batman] does. In the [Adam West Batman] TV series, it was like, 'I'll pull out my photo-electron-neutron. This'll only put him to sleep.' No! This [Michael Keaton] Batman's in trouble? This bad guy is going to be eliminated. 'I've got to terminate him.' It's like Dirty Harry meets RoboCop [(1987)]."
www.1989batman.com/2012/03/vin…
www.1989batman.com/2016/03/vin…
Batman Returns script writer Daniel Waters explained, "He [Michael Keaton] definitely wanted to go darker all the time, which was fine with us [us meaning Daniel Waters and director Tim Burton]. A lot of people complained that our Batman actually killed people, and then, like, some 'purists' were saying that 'Batman would never kill people.' But I would always say that we don't live in a time where you can drop criminals off with a net out in front of City Hall. The times are darker so you gotta make your character darker."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVmDtJ…
Daniel Waters also explained, "My friends always asked, 'How can you have Batman kill somebody?' To me, [Christian Bale's] Batman not killing Heath Ledger at the end of The Dark Knight [(2008)] after proving he can get out of any prison, it's like 'Come on. Kill Heath Ledger.' [Michael Keaton's] Batman killing the clown [the Tattooed Strongman (world champion arm-wrestler Rick Zumwalt) of the Red Triangle Circus Gang] by throwing his bomb back at him [putting the Red Triangle Circus Gang Thin Clown's (mime contortionist Doug Jones') bomb onto the Tattooed Strongman], that wasn't in my draft. I know how uptight people are about Batman killing people in the first place. To me, if he's going to kill somebody, it better be worth it. It should mean something. So, when he's killing people in a devil-may-care way, it's a little grating." Daniel Waters was not remembering that scene accurately. Michael Keaton's Batman was killing with an terror striking attitude and presence, not in a carefree way. He had to get rid of the bomb somehow before it went off and the Tattooed Strongman criminal assailant wasn't letting Batman past him [Batman's punch barely fazed him], and he was likely intent on either killing or causing serious bodily injury to Batman, and also to innocent victims. Batman grinned and then gritted his teeth. Batman's brief [Shadow-esque/Zorro-esque] grin was to strike terror into the Tattooed Strongman's heart. Bill Finger and Bob Kane based Batman on the Shadow and Zorro. The Shadow and Zorro seemed to enjoy terrifying criminals. There are indications in the early comics that Bill Finger and Bob Kane's Batman seemed to enjoy terrifying criminals at times and also did kill criminals.
www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat…
Michael Keaton explained in Comics Scene #29 (1992), "I liked the first Batman scene we filmed [for Batman Returns], where Batman pops the bad guy [the Tattooed Strongman (world champion arm-wrestler Rick Zumwalt) of the Red Triangle Circus Gang], spins him around and does the thing with the bomb. Then, I turn and face the Penguin. It was a tough scene to choreograph because there was so much going on. But what I worked really hard on in that scene was presenting Batman as somebody with a real attitude and presence."
www.1989batman.com/2014/01/vin…
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