Cyrgaan [2012-04-16 09:53:44 +0000 UTC]

Fellow fans, before or in fact amidst your ranting against this ending, please take the following into consideration.

Mass Effect is BioWare's own universe, and in all the past times we have already seen that they seriously and exceptionally taking care of it. Their love and passion shown out through the history, the characters and everything they created into it. And you still think they want to let you all in this disappointment? I personally like this ending, because its not the real ending of the story. And this fact is already been told to you all. Just think that over what you have seen in all the three episodes: BioWare excels in playing on soul's strings, on emotions.

Shocked by the ending? Yeah! But remember, they used shock to rally fans when they made a trailer to Mass Effect 2: Normandy blown apart ... Shepard dying with no doubt or way to escape ... CUT! The whole gaming media was a big, jucy question mark with a long line of exclamation marks ... WHAT THE ****!?!?! As it is now. And then ... they pulled out the rabbit from the hat!
Clever. And you really think these guys are out of their wits? No way!

They've just bought themselves time to get things done properly, and ease the pressure on their shoulders got from the huge Reaper above them called EA. Clever, if you ask me. The hysteria around it has already empowered the waves up to not only the gaming media, but the most common one. I think that the story will not end here. I think they never wanted to end it this way. I think there will be a fourth episode that will clarify the fate of all things we have met in the game’s universe.

There will be a handful of DLC-s, as usual to fill some gaps and make some additions. As well there will be an extended ending to clarify it. And then ... I think there will be a Mass Effect 4 ... and ...
Now, when the stage is perfectly set for something bigger ... what will become?

But ... I'm just speculating obviously.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

HaliteAnn [2012-04-15 22:32:39 +0000 UTC]

I think that the rightful actions of an artist really depend on the product they put forward in the first place. I know of certain authors that I'm sure many others might recognize--though I won't be specific--who have entirely ruined and torn apart their own stories in order to prove to an obsessive audience that their message wasn't just about superficial teenage romance, etc.
While I understand the authors' frustration in most of the readers "missing the point," that kind of a reaction to an audience's wishes isn't a positive one. What began as a breathtaking, revolutionizing piece of art was ruined, because the creator grew to hate their own audience. That sort of change only makes everyone miserable--including the artist.

On the other hand, change can be positive, especially for those who are still avidly trying to improve their work. But in the end, it's up to the artist. What fans are calling for may be something that is intended for farther down the road, or even something that never even occurred to the artist. Sometimes fans are right. But in the end, it's the artists work, and the artist should stick to their gut.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

shadowstown [2012-04-15 13:26:43 +0000 UTC]

wow

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Silver-Tao111 [2012-04-15 04:28:24 +0000 UTC]

:I

well, i just do what i can, so, yeah.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

lafiel1923 [2012-04-14 14:07:41 +0000 UTC]

1. As a writer, I've never felt pressured by my fans to change an important part of a story - that is, as long as I was writing that story passionately and pouring my heart and soul into it. Never did I recieve pressure or aggressive, negative feedback on a story like that. The only stories that fans have begged me to change are the stories that I have written for the sake of irritating them and getting a rise out of them - these stories I don't even care about, I ignore plotholes, dialogue issues, character development problems and then I get loads of feedback. I only write stories like that however when I wonder if my fans are even paying attention anymore. It's a way of asking "are you guys still there?" when I've been writing those great stories everyone loves (including myself) and people have just been happy and silent.

2. As a reader, I think it is also important that people 'review' the work. Yes criticisms may hurt, but this is the only way some people can improve. I wouldn't call it entitlement however, as I would call it a right as a reader/user. Everyone has the right to review a product and that comes from their personal investment and their inner feelings on the story itself. If the quality of the story does not match what your readers invested you be reviewed in a negative light no matter how the story ended.
-------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. As a writer, my connection to my audiences hasn't really altered my stories. I might add in some small parts or a line as a nod to someone's feedback but in general the direction of the story does not change. I think it's okay to acknowledge your fan's wishes as there are very few instances where your direction and their wants will not mesh. However, if you suddenly change your direction in the middle of a story, you should expect your fans to notice...because they were there for you based off of your previous direction. You can't keep them all when you change your own direction in writing, especially if you are trying to pick up a "different" crowd. We all have different tastes and so by wooing a different group of people with your story's direction, you're likely going to lose all the people you originally had.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. I personally was horrified at the ME3 ending...yet I was horrified at the entire game (femShep came out looking like a corpse, voice-acting actually got worse instead of better, glitches everywhere, dialogue options were nonexistent compared to before, choices didn't really matter, what happened to my journal-is this not one of the most important working parts of an RPG?, the gameplay turned into straight up HALO-like shooter (my femShep never dropped her gun to her side, ever)). I guess I should have expected such a letdown of an ending based off of the entire game before that. However, I preordered this game the first day you could preorder the Collector's Edition based off of developer promises on how your choices would play out and other various tidbits that they spoke would be in the game that seemed to never come to fruition. I felt disappointed, betrayed (I was lied to by the devs-never again), and completely uninspired (the previous ME1 and ME2 had managed to inspire me with the storylines and execution-how coud they not as well written as they were?). There was a void in me. I can't help but wonder with ME3 if the writers and devs just stopped caring. There is no way that the same people with the same amount of soul made this game. I cannot see their passion in this work -- it looks too much like my own "don't care" stories for me to truly believe that this was their "art". In this game, the story and gameplay itself changed directions and if this was their desire then they should have openly expected this reaction from people.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

GakuenAlice4Ever [2012-04-14 02:19:35 +0000 UTC]

1. As a reader, sometimes I might think the author of whatever they made would need to change a few things, but that would probably be more around grammar and such instead of characters, scenes, or certain parts in the story/game/whatever. I do not feel I have a right to demand them to change something, because they are the ones that made it, not me, so they have the right to do whatever they think necessary to make it better. I think they should atleast consider other people's opinions though, because soemtimes, changing something actually might make it better.

3. Well, I haven't had much expience in this. I've only ever gotten one message from someone saying that i should change something. But I do think that the connection between me and the readers is important that if someone makes a reasonable comment on changing something, then I should take it into consideration and see if I really want to change it, to see if I really think if it would be better changed or kept the same. I think it really just depends on what the reader wants changed and what you the author of whatever it is thinks it should be changed or not.

I'm sorry I didn't answer the other questions. You might be thinking I'm not taking this seriously right now, huh? Well, oh well, I'm sorry you think that (if you are indeed thinking it). The reason why I haven't answered the other questions is either because I wasn't quite sure how to answer or because the answer I would have written would've been to long and taken to much amount of time. Yeah, I'm lazy like that. Hope this helped at least a little bit...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

RR-Crusader [2012-04-14 01:54:35 +0000 UTC]

We seem to live in an era of reboots. From Batman Begins to the upcoming TMNT.

But just because Batman Begins and the other reboots were successful to various degrees doesn't make a reboot successful by default. The way it is written and directed (and of course acted) has everything to do with the quality that constitutes the success of a reboot.

My initial impression of how the new TMNT will be is a little bit of a mix. I don't like the new take on their origins. Part of the charm of TMNT where because of the circumstances that spawned their existence, an accident where baby turtles came into contact with some form of man-made chemical/radioactive substance which transformed them into anthropomorphic turtles, that so happens to grow up learning ninjutsu.

If they were to have come into contact with a substance that was alien made but otherwise everything else was the same I could live with that as long as their birthplace is Earth.

If they are pure aliens, then for me they have instantly been switched to an aliens-who-knows-earth-styled-this-and-that. We've seen enough of movies and games and comics in which aliens come and mimic humans in one form or another.

Why ruin a great, winning concept by changing its core in this manner, forget that, why mess with the core at all?

I don't care much about the artwork indicating that they might be more ruthless and the movie more mature, I am fine with that since I've always been slightly bothered with the fact that in the cartoon (and films), despite their choice of weapons, never seem to utilize them properly and always ultimately take their enemies down by bludgeoning methods while their weapons are mostly used to block or distract or hinder in some manner. Let the cartoons be for kids who like them, but let this movie , if we're right about its intensity, be for us adults.

After all, for example, Robocop when it came out was pretty much forbidden for kids but later on there was a child friendly series made and released and it worked for both ends in my opinion (even if the latter never quite stuck with us) But that's just me.

As for the ending of Mass Effect 3, I haven't played it yet so I suppose:

1. The game is slightly spoiled now for me, but I still aim to get it and play it through.

2. I don't think I can comment too much.

However, even with the ending revealed to me I can say it doesn't bother me that much. The game is the last one in its series (with possibly an MMO game set in the ME universe on the horizon) and we have many games already which has the hero/player character either win the game on the good side or the bad side, alive.

So what if we now have a game in which the hero dies at the end? I can understand that you could feel frustrated after all the effort you put into the game and that you hoped to 'reap the rewards' of your hard work at the end and have Shepard be hailed as a hero and maybe end the game with your choice of romantic interest at your side. I dunno what your frustration is exactly.

But sometimes the greatest heroes are those that did the deed but perished in the process. Mass Effect is like an interactive movie of sorts and this movie is very engaging and enrapturing. Having the hero die at the end saving the galaxy is a very gripping moment and if it had been a movie we would've been crying our eyes out and rage a bit but agree that it was a terrific movie.

I suspect that the main point of players' frustrations lies with the fact that they cannot get an alternate ending where Shepard survives, they have no choice in the matter to select the ending that suits their tastes.

I suppose that as an 'interactive movie', as I called it before, we are put into the metaphorical director's seat and direct the course of the movie/game.

For us as pseudo-directors I can imagine it being very aggravating that we're not allowed to have options right where it becomes the most critical, it's like we've lost control of the course of the game. Like no matter what we do we can't avoid the set ending.

Making the whole ME series one huge oval shaped storyline where either end (start and finish) remains the same and everything between those ends are the variables the game throws at you.

With the promises of many moral choices, and those same choices affects future events throughout the games, it comes as a big let down for many that it was all for naught in the end.

Well, in my opinion that boils down to how one looks at it.

In terms of relationship to the character, some people are more about the worth of a person is showed at the point of death while others are about how the person lived.

Those that are all about the person's life should find the choices made in ME, the journey to the end, to be that which matters more.

Those that are more about how a person dies would most likely be the majority of the ones that are currently raging about it. Their hero dies and they can do nothing about it.

And in a warped, twisted sense, this is 'exactly' what makes ME so great a game. It has affected people and even though they're angry, many will still say it is one of the greatest games of all time.

I suspect that many hide their emotions regarding the ending, whether consciously or not, behind a mask of frustration. But that's only my theory.

Are then fans let down? That cannot truly be stated as a fact. Because they are affected by the story, not how badly the game was made or acted or anything like that. It's the gripping story and it's even more gripping end that is more evidence to the contrary, that in fact the fans have been given a great story of great quality and emotionally involving content.

That is, among other things, what we want, is it not?

It turns out I had lots to say about it despite my earlier claim, hehehe.

Finally, do we have rights to not only criticize but to demand alterations as we wish it?

There's an big problem with this. So many people want so many different things. We seem to be united in the fact that we don't want Shepard dead, but then how do we want the ending or endings to be then?

No movie, game or literature producing company can ever satisfy everyone, this is a fact. Actually, this is more or less a universal fact no matter where you look. I don't think many realize that there might be people who thought the ending was great as it was, they just are far from being as vocal about it as the other side.

But do the producers and developers have to or even need to listen to their fans?

Yes and no.

Yes, they should always have an ear to what the fans think so they can make a game or whatever that is within the scope of their fans' interests. But shouldn't make a game completely as the fans want because, as stated above, that is impossible.

No, they don't have to because it is their game and their story and they do with it as they please and you either take it or leave it depending on your tastes. We aren't in control of what they ultimately release to us, we merely are affecting it somewhat through our reviews and feedbacks.

We have every right to criticize and we have every right to voice our praise or displeasure, but we don't have any claims on their products. Basically, their story and and the characters are theirs while the game is more of a means to read about them and get into the story. It's just like buying a book, but just because we've bought a book doesn't mean the contents are ours to claim as we will. It's the author's story we've bought the rights to read, not to rewrite as we see fit.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Wolfalope [2012-04-14 01:53:50 +0000 UTC]

Perfect example: My Little Pony.

The producers of the show visit our fan sites. They interact with the brony community all the time. They even watch us watch the show on livestreams, so they can see our reactions as they happen!

Even some of the voice actresses talk to us on Twitter and Youtube.

Daniel Ingram, the show's composer, actually listens to the music we make.

They give us shout-outs in the show, all the time. They will take our memes and incorporate them in a subtle way that doesn't affect the target audience (8-13 year old girls)^^

What has the effect been? WE LOVE IT! The creators are actively getting a feel for what we like and what we don't, and what do they get in return? How about the most loyal and enthusiastic (and sometimes obsessed) fanbase currently in existence! Not to mention more MONEY for Hasbro^^

They are even coming out with a new line of figurines aimed at us adult males who are willing to spend the extra moolah for high-quality stuff.

So communicate with your fans, give them what they want, and they will throw money at you as hard as they can!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

IMEmperor [2012-04-14 01:10:51 +0000 UTC]

I'll give my input as someone who wasted countless hours beating ME1, ME2, and even 3. Mass Effect 3 was a great game up to the last 30 or so minutes.

The thing that fans are enraged over is that, unlike an original film or art, a video game and/or movie franchise is something that the end user had invested time and money into it.

The ending of Mass Effect 2 set the bar on what to be expected of ME3. You get to finally command your team into a fight-or-die situation, where critical placement of team leaders determine the success or death of your team mates. The ending changes dynamically depending on who's dead and who's alive.

The lead-up in ME3 was great, but the last mission was what a lot of fans where clamoring about. Dynamic, decision-crucial endings were promised both in the trailers and in interviews/previews. What we got was a last mission that negates all the decisions made in the prior 3 games, where the only difference between the endings were a couple seconds' worth of CGI. For a game that was supposed to end the trilogy, the ending was incomplete and didn't even bother to tie all the loose ends. It was a major disappointment.

TL;DR: The ending of ME3 is like you were promised a magical tool that can morph into a pen, pencil, crayon, water brush, and an air brush. It has all the colors of the rainbow. What you got in reality was a highlighter that can switch between red, green, and blue. You'd be pissed at the false advertisement too...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

RedVinken [2012-04-13 23:25:06 +0000 UTC]

I myself am working to be able to tell my stories through games, so this is a topic close to the heart.

(SPOILER ALERT)
Is this also a topic of discussion when it comes to books or movies? Should Tolkien have to rewrite his book (yes i know he is dead) just because most fans would rather see Frodo stay in the Shire and have a family or die in the fires? Or maybe they should remake Batman The Dark Knight because most fans did not like the death of 2 face or the joker? (just some examples)

(END of SPOILER ALERT)

NO

If you don't like the painting in the gallery, you just skip it and say it's not to your liking.

The creators of games, or rather the storytellers, want to tell their story. But it remains their story. It is their piece of art which they want to share with the rest of the world.
Agreed, as seen with many tv shows the storyline may start to crumble further on in the series. This is because of the succes of the first part(s) and fans wanting more, while this was not initially intended.
It's bad enough those creative people have to listen and do the bidding of their producers. They should of course not turn a blind eye to the fans. But this should be more about gameplay elements before the game is released. The writers can also look for potentiel inspiration amongst the fans ... BEFORE the game is made/released.

Why would i want to play the revised version if i already know how it will end?

All those people who want to force the issue must think about this first:
Imagine yourself doing something you love. Writing, painting, composing, cooking, building, inventing, ... whatever, you name it. You just finished it. You might even be realy proud of it. Then you show it to everyone you know. 64% of those people say it's no good and you have to throw it away and start again, but they will tell you what to do with it.
Would it still be your creation? Your very own masterpiece?

Again during the creation you can let others inspire you or give constructive criticism. But when it's done, it's done (unless you completely agree that your work is ****). These days people want everything THEIR OWN WAY. And that's the way it should be.
NO. We can't all have it all. But this is a discussion about humans in their society, but that's for another time kids. Sweet dreams.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Eidolon1 [2012-04-13 23:13:23 +0000 UTC]

This is something Hollywood has been doing all the time. A great book comes out they buy the rights to make a movie using the stories title and what they come up with is totally unlike the original. They may have the right to alter the story as they please. I don't like it but I don't have to watch it either.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Lazy-the-King [2012-04-13 21:57:38 +0000 UTC]

this article was not only aesthetically pleasing, but gathered well from both sides, had recognizable artists who commented on ti, and flowed very well. thank you.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

GenMG [2012-04-13 20:47:21 +0000 UTC]

The article is wonderful. And the topic is beautifully addressed.
As to the question at hand... Yes, input is necessary in all forms of literature/ art (yes video games are literature/art), HOWEVER, gamers YOU are playing someone else's STORY.
If you want to write and create your own work of literature/art, you will quickly learn the amount of love and dedication put into every minute.
There will always be criticism and a way to improve the product, BUT being able to change the CORE mechanic of a game is not the gamer's call.
Let the artist's do their job, and the gamer's can honor the artist by playing and giving then LEGITIMATE feedback.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

sanoblaze [2012-04-13 19:50:25 +0000 UTC]

I honestly believe consumers are starting to see themselves as having more say in whats produced than people who are producing it. if you ask me, an alternate reality version of a ninja turtles movie sounds interesting. we've seen their story told multiple times in the same way, now lets see a new take on the story. its not hurting ANYONE by doing this, but the fans screamed "you're ruining my childhood!" why preach about new ideas if we're not willing to try out something we like but with a different formula? the origional formula is still there, but this is just something new a producer or a company is trying out.

I do agree that fan reaction should be considered for certain things. comic books for example, I'm pretty sure nobody would've wanted cry for justice to have been made canon, but it was. if DC had decided that the negative fan reaction was too great, they could've have called it a null and vopid story and had the universe move on like it didnt happen

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

PhotoshopIsMyKung-Fu [2012-04-13 19:50:05 +0000 UTC]

Such a good read.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

woodsmrobert [2012-04-13 19:37:32 +0000 UTC]

mind....blown....

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

ZJSimon [2012-04-13 19:09:46 +0000 UTC]

This is one of the best written AND presented pieces of art journalism I've ever read.

I say this, for better or worse, as someone who consumed a lot of art and things about art as a way to make me a better artist...but also to hide from how scary it was to actually make art.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

Harpiya [2012-04-13 18:30:03 +0000 UTC]

Might be only me, but i prefer fresh ideas and endings if it's game or book/movie. I don't care as a consumer if the ending is right or it's something I expected, it must be good or make my mind say 'Woa'.
As an artist i love feedback and I listen to all ideas i get from others, yet I try twick them with my own brain, to surprise others. [when it comes to requests]

I was never a huge fan of redoing comics into movies. Words,2d art or 3d are different and I feel them in different way.

But as i mentioned might be only me :3 I love little 'pearls' amount the mass-made boring stuff.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Mindcrime121 [2012-04-13 16:41:51 +0000 UTC]

I don't think it's is "owed" to the fans in the technical sense of the word, but it is not bright to piss off the people who have been buying your franchise for the past decade or longer, if you hope to continue receiving their money. How do you think it would sell if the last book in the Harry Potter series came out and they decided his parents hadn't died after all... Not like a "Hey, look! They're ALIVE!" kind of plot twist, but rather a complete change to the entire story-line wherein you, the viewer, now have to re-envision the entire previous story-line without him having ever been orphaned... Kinda lame, and a major load to dump on long time fans that I think would cause most not to bother going and seeing the movie. I guess no one recalls the crash of the Highlander movies when they decided to make THEM "aliens". It came across as stupid and turned off a LOT of fans, and what was once "cool" among a particular sci-fi crowd became little more than a sad joke. So the bottom line it, it does pay to listen to your fans, and from what I've seen in the past, if you ignore them everyone loses.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

566789 [2012-04-13 15:40:35 +0000 UTC]

The problem with using these Mass Effect 3 as an example is that players of Mass Effect 3 forget ONE major thing. It is a video game with a designed plot line. They need to remember on thing, it isn't the destination it is the journey. Every Mass Effect game, no matter your morality or any other actions will end the same way, it is how you get to the ending though.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is another thing. It is an already created IP (Bioware had freedom to do with the Mass Effect Trilogy as they pleased), which means every fan of the various series and comics out there expect them to be mutants. Making them aliens does two things. Makes it NOT be TMNT, and then removes the moral and sociological messages from TMNT.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

yyjvmb [2012-04-13 15:27:54 +0000 UTC]

As a visual artist, have you ever experienced being pressured to alter an artwork, either by a dealer to make it more “salable,” or by your watchers, critics, or friends?
Sometimes, yes. Mostly by people I know personally (friends or family), the others being watchers. I normally take it as 'constructive criticism' if I know I messed up in a certain part, but if they're not giving me helpful feedback, then I normally don't listen to it.

As a writer, have you ever experienced being pressured to change an important part of a story, either at a prospective publisher’s or editor’s insistence, or simply because of a reader’s impassioned entreaties?
I have been pressured to change important parts, once again from people I know personally, but later I find that if I do change it, it distorts my story completely.

As a reader or viewer (of movies, TV shows, videogames, art, etc.) do you feel a sense of entitlement giving you the right to not only criticize but actually demand changes be made to a disappointing work?
Hm...I feel the right to criticize, but not demand changes. I give constructive criticism on how they can improve for next time, but not to change the current work.

Do you feel this entitlement is based in your great investment of both money and time in the work? Or do you feel this entitlement is based in your great investment of your head and heart in a particularly resonant storyline?
I think it's based on my head and heart in the storyline.

As a writer or visual artist, is the connection between you and your audience important enough for you to want to make a change pleasing to them?
I don't think so, no. My audience is extremely important (because I do want to know what they think), but I wouldn't change anything for them. I would, however, use their suggestions in my next piece.

As an online reader of Knite, Romantically Apocalyptic, or Off-White, is there an increased value or special connection you experience in being able to connect with the authors of your favorite works-in-progress and contribute your feedback?
I don't read any of these, sorry. But I do like connecting with my favorite authors as they create an amazing work. I do contribute my feedback, but I don't tell them to change anything (unless it's a grammatical mistake or something similar).

Does the ability to offer comments, suggestions, criticisms, and encouragement bond you creatively to a property in a way eclipsing passive fandom?
Yes it does. It makes me feel important in the creation of the story in general.

Does Fan art and Fan Fiction created around an online story with author/reader interactivity become more of an integral part of the property than traditional offline fan art tributes?
I don't think I understand your question.

If you played ME3, how did you feel about the ending? TMNT or TANT?
Never played, sorry.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

ShiroKusakabe [2012-04-13 14:53:32 +0000 UTC]

I personally think that the authors have always the last word when it comes to it, but they simply can't ignore their audience, and how much you should take in account your audience depends on what kind of work you are doing. Some works may be actually fitted to be an author exclusive creation, with no interference of the audience, like a story thats just supposed to be told and thats it. But with works like mass effect, were the audience is supposed to not only watch the events, but to be part of them, saying that ignoring their pleas is a mistake, would be a understatement, after all, in this kind of work, the public expect to "make" the story to certain degree. the expected of something like mass effect 3 would be to be able to get several, wildly diferent endings, from those were you get a pretty happy ending, to some were you fail horribly your mission and pay the price for it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Darthvoorhees13 [2012-04-13 13:15:08 +0000 UTC]

1: I'm not that good at writing stories or making art. I don't really try to either (no interest), my reason on being here is more to appreciate good art. And I can very well appreciate good art.

2: Yes. This line of questioning is given a Mathematician's answer, because ALL the questions given are correct in some form or another.

3: If I was a good writer/artist (I don't try.), only if I half-assed my work, fans knew it, and I knew it.

4: Never heard of those stories. But yes, do think it's neat to actually give good ideas and see them adapted.

5: Thought the ending for Mass Effect 3 was extremely lacking. Plotholes, recursive logic ("Built machines to kill off organics to stop them from making machines that kill off organics"), and just lazy. Undid everything you worked for. And the last game arc of Commander Shepard. For Shepard to die was just cheesy writing.

Why not like Metal Gear Solid IV? It was the last game of Solid Snake, but Snake doesn't die at the end of the story. He was still alive at the end, but it was stated he was going to die a while after. That's the "Last mission/game" thing done in a very original way. Was expecting Bioware, for all their good writing, to be at least that clever.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

djkpat [2012-04-13 12:50:42 +0000 UTC]

As a visual artist, I believe that feedback is necessary. I do and have altered works based on user and client feedback, and it has only served to benefit me. As a viewer or art, and a current student of it, I do find myself criticizing and judging more so than before, but never without some merit.

In the case of ME3 or TMNT/TANT, the ending didn't upset me, but how the pretty much recycled all three endings was a slight bit of a cop out. I mean for being how big the game was supposed to be and all. Then again a ton of other blockbuster titles have had some pretty short and shotty endings, ME3, BF3, DA2 etc, and they were all excellent games. So I can look past that. With TMNT however. Now I like many grew up on the late 80's, early 90's cartoon, toys and comics. So for me it holds some serious nostalgia to my past, and change is always alarming to anyone who holds onto something as such. I had my concerns with a number of movies, and how they were to represented, and there have been a lot of good re-imaginings of older super heroes and cartoon characters. So I'm going to give this new TANT a chance, but just the acronym for their title sounds a little too close to what critics and fans will ultimately think of it.

I think that working with fans is a hit or miss scenario, it's good to listen to feedback, but taking it with caution. Ultimately there are going to be a lot of conflicting ideas and as such often clutters some games when the developers try to ask for what fans want (Lost Planet 2). As for movies, it's really hard to take criticism from fans before the movies launch, but taking suggestions from them also wouldn't be a bad stretch, and especially reaching out to this community, who are full of artists, writers, poets, musicians etc. A smorgasbord of creative intellect. In that sense of the creative directors of movies such as the new TMNT/TANT would be wise to listen to some top notch individuals on here (not me of course, I'm still small fry haha) and possibly change their creative approach if they needed too. I mean who's not going to comment if a studio came on here and asked: what would make for a good Venom movie, or how can we incorporate carnage into the next spider man movie to make it awesome?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

greekdude1991 [2012-04-13 12:45:27 +0000 UTC]

great article in both content and looks. i had heard rumors of the new ending it is good to see they are true. i was not a fan of ME3's ending.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Khayoh [2012-04-13 12:37:40 +0000 UTC]

I seriously agree with the concept of Game Creators teaming up with their fans.
Over the last decade a mass variety of games; story lines, graphic design have been produced by people gaining quailifications so choosing to move into the game industry.

With many parts of the UK (for exsample)
Are struggling in poorer parts, but there are people that 'consume' entertainment consoles, games, graphic novels ect, out there that want to be a part of it. They have their own designs that they are willing to put forward if given the chance.
With a society that is seperated through different genres of music we have games that bring people from all different walks of life together.

Why not evolve it further, let the game creators find apprentices for collaboration, take them on for training.
With The music industry finding the talent we hear on the radio through Youtube or TV Talent Shows.
I think it's something that we should consider, to ease the recession and help our communities.

Sometimes it takes more than one creator to create something worthwhile in this world.
Something to remember, something we dedicate our lives too, why just Play, Read, and Watch when we have the technology and natural talent to Program, Write, and Imagine?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Iyasha [2012-04-13 10:21:40 +0000 UTC]

4. Yes, of course it does. Being able to communicate with the authors and state our opinion is a great aspect in the stories and it makes me want to read more. The collaboration of both author and fans almost always make a great story.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Budmaloney [2012-04-13 09:34:54 +0000 UTC]

What I dislike about the internet, is that people are outraged by the fan outrage. Every one saying, why don't you just not buy it, or "stupid fans". They're denying people's freedom to complain even. It all boils down to accountability.
With ME3, if it was a linear game, I wouldn't care if they changed the ending. But with such an investment, they messed up bad, they went against their core mechanic. Mass Effect was about the decisions and never the characters. What you did. Ignoring that was a big mistake. And the fans reaction was expected and should always be there. If fans are submissive, then the quality will drop. Fans must always voice their opinions, so should artists making the stuff.
With Turtles it's a different story. Because of limited licensing, things end up being bottle necked by one person or company. If Turtles was a free license that any one can make comics and make money off of. No one will care if Bay makes a movie or not. It's that Bay screwed up Transformers so much for the fans. I'm not discussing art direction, or concept. The movies were bad. Take rotten tomatoe reviews as a reference. I'm not going to go into that deeply. The same fans liked TMNT, and they grew up with both TF , TMNT, and other shows. When they see the same guy, that ruined the other loved franchise, they will freak out. And they did, and they should, and never give up. I think Bay will F up TMNT, no doubt, because it's Bay we don't like. Maybe if someone else had made TMNT aliens or toilet seat covers, no one would care as much. But it's message to Bay, to back off. Same with Indiana Jones. These publishers don't realize what they are doing to beloved characters. They just want to make new fans and more money. But these new fans will one day riot the same way as old ones, when things change even more in the future. Ninja Transforming Megan Fox Turtles will be an outrage. I personally commend Bay on having high production values and great effects, but I trusted him to take care of a Transformers, and in my opinion he did not. He butchered it. Optimus is a murderer, no Decepticon was left alive. And no one on his team had the guts to tell him it's shit. I mean come on, SOUNDWAVE was useless. All he cared about was flashing the US militarty in people's faces. And it's his right, don't get me wrong, he got the license. I went and paid for the movies, I adapted and decided I will not complain too much. But this TMNT thing came up, and it's like, when will it end?

Fans care because at the end of the day, fans are human, they feel, they are your peeps, your homeboys, your gang. I'm not afraid of the new direction of making content, I embrace it as many people have done. If any publisher reads this, stay true to your self and the fans. Don't be shut off by them. They're not scary.
Think of it as Politics, look at what Bush did to the world. There were people that complained, and articles saying, stop complaining about Bush. But they complain because they see something, they see the direction, they're not stupid. They have to complain, and Bush has to be accountable, he put himself in a position where he has to be accountable. It's life.

It's horrible for a publisher in today's world to not expect a response from their artwork.

thnx for reading my opinion on the matter.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

gulabjamuns [2012-04-13 08:57:51 +0000 UTC]

I prefer everything to be as the original creator intended it. To me, there is 4 things that can happen with a creation after it's original unveiling - usings films as an example:

1. cuts - not intended by the creator, forced due to social, political, moral, or other pressures
2. director's cuts - the way the director originally inteded it to be
3. nothing - for better of for worse it stays the same, either as the director intended it or not as the director inteded it, wither anyone likes it or not
4. george lucas (unsatisfied with what he made, whither it was good or not, and keeps editing it with mixed results and opinions, but no matter what it doesnt remain the same)

I can accept director's cuts, perhapse the original vision was compromised for some reason and the creator has a chance to go back and make what was originally intended, for the betterment of pretty much everyone. But I can't stand it when someone messes with a work already thought to be complete, and on top of that is accepted as good by a significant amount of people. If something was a complete failure and garnered no fans, support, or acclaim of any kind, then sure maybe the creator can take it back to the drawing board, but otherwise it's practically blasphemy no matter who's hand is behind the changes.

Take for example what's happening with Power Girl right now. What the hell?! She had so many fans, and now pretty much the majority are upset about multiple changes done to her that seem to have no purpose other than to make her fans not care for her anymore and have her old haters try to give her another chance at liking her, which totally makes no sense. She's like a completely new character that has no resemblance to her predecesor beyond the name, and the blame seems to boil down to one word - "cleavage".

In games recently there's Soul Calibur 5, it makes no sense why the hell they did what they did with the story and characters for that series. They forwarded the story by 17 years for basically no reason and as a result removed and/or replaced even more fan-favorite characters, and now the story is the most rotten it's ever been despite all the changes and sacrifices which were supposed to make things better. Also, especially when something has run for as long as this, you have to realize how every aspect of it has gained it's own amount of fans, there's staples in the series, and once you get into a 10th sequel, you've really got to be more careful and smart about changes.

If it's completely broken I can understand fixing it, but if it isn't then just fix/change the parts that pretty much everyone agrees is broken, nothing else.

The consumers have a say, but not in every case. It needs to be an overwhelming majority and the creator has to feel completely ok with making changes (say a favorite character gets killed, was it really a bad idea? is it ok for the character's fans to be upset because there was good reason behind it in the story?). Even then, if something is that bad, it's probably to forget it, leave it alone, learn from it, and make something completely new... stop trying to change it over and over until it's entire history is a mess of evolutions and devolutions and mixed feelings. Sometimes it's best for a story to quit while it's at the top, dont oversaturate it with sequels and changes and spinoffs, at least not so frequently.

That's why I can't get into endless, ongoing stories (many popular comics, anime, and manga out there are like this). I like it best when a story's creator has the idea down beginning to end, clearly, comprehensively, and concisely, and leaves it alone once it's done. That's why I still feel the best stories are in books and movies (mostly based on books, lol, or classic ones), and that most video games, cartoons, tv shows, anime, comics, etc.. while I love them and enjoy them, they just can't reach those masterpiece qualities, I go to them for other reasons than that. I used to think some super nintendo games had the greatest stories I ever knew, until I grew older and started to read more classic books and watched more quality movies.

Ultimately, feedback can't be stopped, it'll happen regardless. The question is, should it be taken and how should it be taken? It's a double-edged sword. Say one fan tells the creator he doesnt like something, but what if that fan is in the minority? I think the creator should make sure it's the vast majority that desires a change before changing mind, make sure it's not a vocal minority either. If opinion is down the middle, then maybe a compromise can be made, but you really have to be careful with these things.

As for TMNT, they're remaking things AGAIN? I thought the CG film already did that well? Why cant they just make a sequel to that? As a fan of the old cartoon and someone who's also read some of the comics, I was satisfied with that movie, it was the best TMNT movie even though I liked the old movies too.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

dilgesyart [2012-04-13 08:23:43 +0000 UTC]

very very niceeee ^,^

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Snowshark700 [2012-04-13 07:16:40 +0000 UTC]

5: Frankly, what I see with the ME3 ending is the fact that I completely believe that the indoctrination theory is the truth to the ending. People are ignoring three very important bits of proof that pretty much guarantee that the actual ending is the indoctrination ending.

a) Sheppard wakes up after doing the Destroy ending on earth.
b) Sheppard has the bullet-wound that Anderson took when he dies.
c) When you take the Blue and Green endings, your eyes become the same as the Illusive Man's indoctrinated eyes right at the end, whilst when you take the red ending, not only do your eyes not change, but your limp disappears.

To me, I see two possibilities as to why these exist.

i) Bioware placed in the best final boss of all time by making it a psychological fight, rather than a technical fight and doing it so well that most people did not even notice the truth about it and they will eventually release free DLC for the rest of the ending.
ii) EA forced them to make drastic changes to their planned ending so that they could find ways to make the franchise translatable to different stories easier and leave it more open-ended. Perhaps EA wanted an answer to Halo. However, irked by this, Bioware deliberately went and created an ending that would irk fans to no end so that there would be an uproar and possibly even some dire repercussions to EA whilst still leaving in the hints to the indoctrination ending.

That way they would be able to salvage the game after the flack is thrown and inquiries are made and still come out with some dignity, showing that they were fighting back against an oppressive regime that was trying to castrate their game.

- - - - -

I do not imagine for one second that what we see was Bioware's intended ending. They showed through the whole series and their past games that they are a pinnacle of excellence when it comes to writing and ME has, to my knowledge, always been a set story planned for 3 games. EA has been feeding us crap for a while and I think Bioware just won't swallow EA's shit.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

conquerorsaint [2012-04-13 06:40:31 +0000 UTC]

1C. Yes very much.

2. The latter

4. Yes

5. TMNT is TMNT for a reason. Not Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles. GTFO Michael Bay, you've already tainted transformers with your crappy and bland vision and just retire already. Same goes for George Lucas.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Griff496 [2012-04-13 04:07:02 +0000 UTC]

Simple, they CANNOT be successful without catering to the audience and their tastes.
One does not simply make a game without having a target audience.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1