TheArtrix In reply to Kydoon [2013-11-08 12:17:44 +0000 UTC]

It's always amusing how I'm an artist to one person and "the tech guy" to the other. I did quite some scripting in my time, but never past the truly professional level. In the end, I find scripting to be highly frustrating and art's more my thing.

Also, $t is supposed to be the "percentage of coolness". In effect, anything lower than 20 yields the statement that it needs to be 20% cooler. It's not very fancy, but you get the idea.

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TheArtrix In reply to NyteShay [2013-11-03 22:43:17 +0000 UTC]

Yes, it's the web server with the highest market share .

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NyteShay In reply to TheArtrix [2013-11-04 02:00:52 +0000 UTC]

Oh, I see. I didn't know that. I was thinking some sort of native american server or something.

Silly me!

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TheArtrix In reply to theoldhorse2 [2013-11-01 12:26:09 +0000 UTC]

Well, you see... never mind.

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theoldhorse2 In reply to TheArtrix [2013-11-02 13:31:17 +0000 UTC]

mhm

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TheArtrix In reply to Mike-RaWare [2013-10-31 22:53:08 +0000 UTC]

Well played, sir.

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TheArtrix In reply to vidgamer123 [2013-10-31 22:53:48 +0000 UTC]

Now, combine the PHP with the HTML to make it look pretty!

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TheArtrix In reply to Geffenleffens [2013-10-31 23:02:49 +0000 UTC]

Cobalt sounds familiar to me, as well as Pearl, but I really have no way to visualize it as I never really worked with those languages. I tried coding PHP and web design professionally, but it's just extremely frustrating and I'm just not that good at it.

I really love drawing and I'm really good at it, so I hear ya. Do what you do best, and love doing it.

In my case it does result in being an artist with basic PHP knowledge :]

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CheshireTwilight In reply to garciarael [2013-10-31 13:25:54 +0000 UTC]

It is mostly because of security concerns. Because web servers are constantly exposed to the web, you need a language that, at the most basic level, doesn't allow for security concerns. Java is too flexible and allows for a programmer to easily expose parts of the code to hackers accidentilly, you need to be a Java master to be able to make a Java web server but even so long as you statically type PHP, it will always be secure. C is too simple and while there are several open source C web servers available, it still requires a lot of development work to get the same amount of usability as that which is provided by the PHP community. Also, C isn't supported on all server platforms.

That being said, PHP is only good for web servers (typically as a backend for JavaScript, CSS, and HTTP style websites) and shouldn't be used anywhere else because it is too hard to get efficient code from. It is certainly better than mySQL *bleh*

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garciarael In reply to CheshireTwilight [2013-11-03 04:41:54 +0000 UTC]

Okay.

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SambaNeko In reply to CheshireTwilight [2013-11-01 03:58:39 +0000 UTC]

"doesn't allow for security concerns."

...and you're saying that's PHP?  Goodness, no!  PHP isn't inherently secure at all; it can be written securely if you know what you're doing, but a lot of beginners' code is dangerously exploitable.

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CheshireTwilight In reply to SambaNeko [2013-11-01 13:19:56 +0000 UTC]

Well I wasn't saying for beginners. Any code is exploitable if you don't think about it but I've had to think a lot less about PHP online security then I have using Java, C or C++.

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SambaNeko In reply to CheshireTwilight [2013-11-01 14:45:44 +0000 UTC]

In general I'd say the security of any language just depends on who's writing it.

The PHP.net site itself was recently compromised (arstechnica.com/security/2013/… ), though the attack vector is not yet known.

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LexyEevee In reply to CheshireTwilight [2013-11-01 03:50:29 +0000 UTC]

"even so long as you statically type PHP, it will always be secure"

This is...  very untrue.  There have been a great many security incidents involving PHP.

"It is certainly better than mySQL"

SQL isn't really a programming language.

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CheshireTwilight In reply to LexyEevee [2013-11-01 13:34:01 +0000 UTC]

Well maybe "always" is a bit strong of a word but it would be far more secure then trying to program your server is, say, Java (using .jsp). You could probably find .asp or C to have different, but equivalent, levels of security, but you won't have the benefit of the Open-Source community and unless you're a pro in those languages, your progamming is bound to open more holes (and waste more of your time).

Also, I hate this "X isn't a programming language because of Y" debates. Just because it's scripted, or is functional or communicates with some underlying interface doesn't make it any less of a progamming language. If code is saved and re-used by a computer without further human assistance, then it is a program, which by definition, was written in a progamming language. That being said, SQL is certainly easier then Java or C (but you aren't going to be a pro overnight).

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LexyEevee In reply to CheshireTwilight [2013-11-08 03:37:57 +0000 UTC]

Why is Java inherently more secure than PHP?  Why do you think there's no open-source community around C?  (You do know that, for example, Linux is written entirely in C?)

SQL is very very domain-specific, at the very least.  It's not comparable to C or Java or PHP or any other general-purpose language because they do radically different things.  You can't just learn SQL instead of one of those and call it a day.

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CheshireTwilight In reply to LexyEevee [2013-11-08 12:29:37 +0000 UTC]

Huh? I said PHP is typically more secure then Java, not the other way around, unless you are agreeing with me? Anyway, let's forget about the security argument. Unless you can find specific statistical data comparing hundreds of similar code samples between .jsp and .php in various web environments on their security, the argument is indefensible.

Here is a further list of arguments for PHP: 

• It is the most used Web development platform out there
• The barrier to entry is low
• All you need is a Web server (typically Apache) and an editor
• Immediate feedback and greater productivity (you can save files in your editor and click reload on your browser)
• There is lots of information out there on PHP
• PHP hosting is extraordinarily cheap.

I made my argument as a proposed reason why people use PHP over C or Java for server-side web development (I didn't mean to say C had no open source community, but rather it is very small compared to PHP is this area). If you, personally, think it is better for some reason or another then use C for web development all you want (I'm not arguing that the other languages are worse, at least not directly). But unless you think these proposed arguments are wrong in answering the first guy's question, then we are going off topic. Personally, my area of expertise is embedded micro-controllers.

What? I said programming language not "general-purpose language". Of course they are radically different. I understand that you could never build an OS with SQL etc. but you also can't execute machine code with C or program an FPGA with Java. Different programming languages are used for different things, otherwise they wouldn't exist at all, but they are all programming languages (why make things unnecessarily confusing?).

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LexyEevee In reply to CheshireTwilight [2013-11-08 22:05:05 +0000 UTC]

The barrier to entry for anything is pretty low these days; you don't even need a Web server to write Python or Ruby or Perl; anything that doesn't give you immediate feedback is crap; the Internet has resources on everything; and Heroku will host your low-traffic Python or Ruby thing for free.  Meanwhile, here are my arguments against .

Your proposed argument is wrong.  You said "you need a language that, at the most basic level, doesn't allow for security concerns".  C might be dangerous because of the potential for memory errors, which don't exist in PHP...  but they don't exist in Java, either.  And most big webservers are written in C!  (And I have no idea what static typing has to do with it.)  The real security concerns in web apps are various types of forgery and injection, and PHP nothing to prevent those—arguably, it makes it easier to create those problems in the first place.  I would expect the average Java web app to be more secure than the average PHP web app by a long shot.

People tend to use "programming language" to mean a general-purpose one.  SQL is really a query language, hence the name.  But it's also Turing-complete.  But then, so is CSS.  Terminology is hard.

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gandpTrixie In reply to JZStudios [2013-10-31 12:46:19 +0000 UTC]

I'll take C++ over php any day.

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