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thiro In reply to superpower-pnut [2008-10-02 04:42:40 +0000 UTC]

Hahaha yes well at least they're not entirely in conflict Thanks for the comment dude

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superpower-pnut In reply to thiro [2008-10-02 16:21:53 +0000 UTC]

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thiro In reply to Bakura-N-Me [2006-06-23 11:28:34 +0000 UTC]

Awww you're so nice ^^ Thankyou!!!

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thiro In reply to dragonlupine [2006-01-17 08:41:30 +0000 UTC]

XD XD That's exactly right That is hilarious, I never thought of that Thanks for the laugh ^___________^

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chelsea666akasha In reply to chelsea666akasha [2005-12-17 00:49:10 +0000 UTC]

glad you like the sig . I'm very insane . so that's what I typed . beside's , sane people are so boring .

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thiro In reply to chelsea666akasha [2005-12-16 23:20:16 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I was going for one common thing -- after all, they are in the same body XD Thanks, glad ya like!

And by the way, I just have to say that I like that your sig is awesome ~ the sentence so applies to me: "sanity is over rated . being insane is way more fun". XD

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thiro In reply to hiro-san [2005-01-28 11:16:19 +0000 UTC]

No, no probs with your English XD

Hey thanks man, I really appreciate it!

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thiro In reply to TheRiverWolf [2005-01-24 07:49:29 +0000 UTC]

True, I didn't say I wanted no critique at all, but I didn't expect this level of bashing. Read what I said to ~splitsecond up there and you'll get the idea of what I'm talking about.

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TheRiverWolf In reply to thiro [2005-01-24 20:56:23 +0000 UTC]

I don't really _think_ it was bashing. More like constructive criticsm. Furthermore, saying that the proportions are off on the arms could really be helpful in the long run, for improvement tips, y'know? The real arguement was not over the picture itself, nor was it directed at the artist. It was about a comment made by someone else.

The REAL person getting the bashing was the idiot who felt it their obligation to attack the person giving the critique for saying their proportions needed work.

It's not like saying that is bashing. The arguement was not directed at the artist really.

And furthermore, to the person who said this: calling someone a "dickwad" only proves that you are immature, and have a thing with the word "dick." It really annoys me when people use that word.

Anyway, the point of it all is this: If you have an issue accepting small critiques like this, then set a level of criticism you want. Eventually, someone is bound to not agree completely with what you do.

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otherwise In reply to TheRiverWolf [2005-01-25 00:49:28 +0000 UTC]

Actually, I've been against this whole "level of critique" thing from the start. It makes my skin crawl--it's just ASKING people who can't take critisism to go banning left and right, going and whining to the admins. People should be ready for ANY LEVEL OF CRITIQUE. If the statement is blatantly false, you should be able to ignore it and move on, but if it holds even the slighest bit of truth you should take it into account.

Profanity isn't really a good idea, but you have to admit she has a point. Acting like you're on some higher level of being is really, really obnoxious, and deserves a banning more than any other conduct I've seen here.

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superpower-pnut In reply to otherwise [2008-09-22 04:07:56 +0000 UTC]

Lol I still remember my first real and honest critique. Had to lick my wounds for a week, but after that, I totally saw where they were coming from.

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TheRiverWolf In reply to otherwise [2005-01-25 02:00:12 +0000 UTC]

Mhm.. I'm not a big fan of profanity either.

As for the lengthiness of the rant, once I get on a tangent... well...

See, the thing is though, I didn't honestly think anyone was acting that way... but maybe I've missed something.

*shrug*

Ah well... it ain't a big deal.

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splitsecond In reply to splitsecond [2005-01-24 02:37:16 +0000 UTC]

I apologize! I misread. It was another person, not the artist of this piece, who responded to the other criticism. Though that still was immature...

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thiro In reply to splitsecond [2005-01-24 11:56:38 +0000 UTC]

I responded to no criticism before you wrote this critique, just to clear things up, though I am grateful to my mates here at DA that are supporting me ~

Thanks guys!

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thiro In reply to splitsecond [2005-01-24 07:47:43 +0000 UTC]

Interesting point of view. Now it's my turn.

1.) I don't ink with a mouse --- it's scanned in and the lineart is used. Don't believe me? Look closer and you'll see places where some pencil lines have been left. I like a little bit of a sketchy feel.
2.) "Square, lumpy" asses may be occuring because they're sitting. It's a little hard to have a curvaceous backside while you're sitting.
3.) 'Clumsy and awkward' lineart? What does that mean?
4.) The light source is coming from both ways, imitating the 'Yugi/Yami Yugi' shadows in the opening of the show. The area behind them has not been shaded as well because I felt that it would take away from the light, colourful and enlightened background. I do think about the pics I draw, y'know
5.) ' Swollen hands' and other "deformations" are quite typical of many animes. Perhaps not of manga, but definitely anime ~~ I suggest watching 'Digimon', 'Yu-Gi-Oh!', 'Pokémon' etc. to see more of these 'deformations'.

And, finally, as I've said to others who have bashed me also, remember that I don't do art because I want it to be perfect, flawless and completely amazing. I do them because they're fun, my friend -- it's a place where I draw exactly what I want. In my past year at DA, people have embraced this enjoyment I have in drawing ~ I'll often write in the comments,"This was so fun to do!!" and other will say that they can see that I've enjoyed doing it.

Also, I'd like to clear up one last thing. I have no problem with criticism at all. Criticism helps people to improve and develop their skills. But - and this is not just for you, this is for all other bashers reading this - while your intentions of criticism may be good (may be, may be not), you must learn to criticise more tactfully. This means weighing up the bad with the good. In your critical piece, you've listed at least twenty failures in my picture, while providing a grand total of two strong points. Weighing both out will make the artist satsified that they received good, helpful critisicm. With your comment, quite frankly, I feel bashed.

You have brought forward excellent ideas, splitsecond, and they would be helpful to me if they were weighed out. Try it out, and I guarantee you'll get a much warmer response.

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otherwise In reply to thiro [2005-01-25 01:17:41 +0000 UTC]

1) But it DOES look like it's inked with a mouse.
2) No, it's not because they're sitting . . . it's another anatomy problem, and that's something you should be most attentive of in critisism from anyone, even if they're not good artists themselves. Why? Because people know what people look like, whether or not they're sitting down. Second opinions on anatomy should always be welcomed, not brushed off like that.
3) The inking is just.....bad. It's hard to find a proper word to describe it. It's arbitrary, it looks messy, the consistency is off. And could you perhaps watch the smilies? You might come off as condescending.
4) Arrrrrgh, smudgy shading and light sources on inked work drives me MAD. If the lineart is bold and clearly defined, so should the shading. As it is the lighting only makes it look more flat.
5) Just because they're typical doesn't mean they're good. And it doesn't give that "anime" impression, it really just looks like they're badly drawn. The difference is that cute chibi hands give the impression that, despite the simplicity, if you wanted to you COULD draw the complex formations under the skin, and I don't get that from this piece.

I'd also like to point out that the animation in YGO! or Pokemon is far from perfect. At the rate they have to turn out shows, they don't have the time or money to check every single frame to see that it's done well. Hands get messed up a LOT.

You say you take critisism, but this response doesn't really show that. If I were splitsecond, I'd be pretty put-off the way you shrug off her comments. She took a long time to say all that, but you respond as though you clearly know better. And for someone who insists upon pinpointing exactly what's wrong in every little detail, it's odd that you use such general words as "more tactfully" and "bashers."

If I had more to write about the good points of this picture, I would. But I have a feeling you already know them, and I doubt there's anything left out by all the other commenters, so why repeat them? The definition of bashing doesn't mean the absense of compliments.

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Bonasi In reply to thiro [2005-01-24 21:16:22 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, Thiro, but you will only get equal amounts of criticism and praise if your piece merits equal parts. In all honesty, I can't find as many things right with the picture as I can find wrong. As for my own criticism, Otherwise and Splitsecond already said what I feel.

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ancient-secrets In reply to ancient-secrets [2005-01-25 04:53:04 +0000 UTC]

I like you're pic !! ... the comment refers to Bakura and Theif thinking very differently. That's all I meant any way.

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thiro In reply to ancient-secrets [2005-01-24 07:51:30 +0000 UTC]

.... is that a response the bashing of this pic or a response to Bakura and Yami Bakura? XD

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thiro In reply to otherwise [2005-01-24 08:11:41 +0000 UTC]

First of all to "otherwise": don't worry, I realise you're bashing my art because it is in the Bakura X Ryou contest that you are also in.

This is a rule from the club :
"One of the most important rules is NO BAGGING OUT OR FLAMING OTHER PEOPLE! If I find out that someone has they will be banned from the club. I hope this never happens. "

It is a small-scale club, and I'm sure you will not worry if you're banned from the club. But a reminder to you. Work on your criticism skills, otherwise. See my comment to splitsecond for some tips.

And try not to act so tough, otherwise. We all know that bullies bash people because they are insecure themselves. Ask any teacher or principal.

Have a nice day!

Next to shimofuro: Let's try to settle this without the swearing. Constructive means using clean language, my friends.

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otherwise In reply to thiro [2005-01-25 00:59:40 +0000 UTC]

I love how you manage to make a huge assumption about my motives AND discredit my comments in one sentence. It's truly astounding.

Actually, what really throws me back is that you're--and I really don't know how to put this in a kindly fasion--using such cliched reasoning. "We all know that bullies bash people because they are insecure themselves."? Maybe in second grade that's what Mommy tells her kid when he comes home crying.

I won't deny that I wouldn't have found your art if it hadn't been for the contest, and I won't deny it's because you have so many votes. But what really prompted me to post is that you have so many positive comments that I honestly don't think you deserve.

And bother my lack of articulation, but I have difficulties critisising bad humor in a nice way. I can't stand to see old jokes that weren't funny originally and aren't funny now inflate a person's ego. I mean . . . I suppose I could be interpreting it wrong, and you're going to pull an Anne Rice on me (if you don't like it, it's YOUR FAULT! You're interpreting it WRONG!), but I doubt it. And since the humor was so bluntly . . . not funny, I found it only appropriate to respond in a similar fashion.

Furthermore, my comment was harsh, but it was NOT a flame. It had solid groundings. It wasn't aimed directly at you for no reason. Ask me to elaborate on it, I can, but somehow I doubt you'd like to hear it.

Besides, glancing at the rest of your gallery, I can see you can do a lot better than this picture. In comparison it looks like you finished it in a matter of minutes, in which case it hardly deserves credit as a piece of art--it's just not fair.

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thiro In reply to otherwise [2005-01-26 05:29:37 +0000 UTC]

First of all towards the pic. It’s not mouse inked. I never said I was a “good” artist. And I like the smilies.

As for the ~splitsecond comment, that person left a long comment full of negative points about the picture. They were not using blunt, rude language to point it out, and that I respect. I also respect that they obviously took their time to write it. However, I too took my time to explain why the comment failed to enlighten me; as I wearily state over and over, criticism is not about shoving all the mistakes the artist did wrong down their throats, unless, of course, the artist specifically asked for that kind of criticism. Critiques are done to help the artist along, not to make them feel like worthless wannabes. Which is why others must be careful to weigh out the good with the bad whilst critiquing. In hindsight, splitseconds’ comments could have been helpful if re-phrased. Instead of “The proportions are all wrong”, a sentence such as “Try keeping the fingers shorter than their forehead” would not make the artist feel like they’re being completely ridiculed and bashed.

Also, sarcasm is not recommended in critiques. However, as I see by your other comments, that is your method of writing, which is fine.

I do not take back that your first comment was flame. It was the tone of your comment that made it a bashing. The sarcasm “As if that’s original” and the “In other news…” quirk is what did it. But, as with splitsecond, a rephrasing, a bit of tact and an ix-nay on the sarcasm would have made it a solid, good and sincerely appreciated critique.

What I do take it back that you are a bully. Y’know, I don’t like that word. ‘Harasser’ is better. Your last comment was still harsh, but you did end on a high note, which I appreciate. Harassers bash till the end. And trust me, *otherwise, bullies are insecure. It’s been proven time and time again. Ask anybody. And no, ‘Mommy’ did not tell that to me. Any pamphlets issued by the Board of Studies committee can explain this.

Judging by your last comment and some journals of yours I’ve flicked through, you seem like a descent person. We severely hit it off on the wrong foot, but perhaps once we’ve cooled it, we can try it again.

Until then, keep it down ~

--> Thiro

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otherwise In reply to thiro [2005-01-26 06:08:35 +0000 UTC]

I'm not sure, it strikes me that a lot of critisism that I see for books and movies (which are often better written than the actual book or movie, which never fails to amuse me, for idiotic reasons), is to prevent the artist or writer from dishing out that sort of art anymore. Critisism is meant to be discouraging to a certain degree, whether or not they put it right out there. Even the nicest, most well-meaning critisism is going to burn at least a little simply because they found fault in it (and some, like myself, would generally find subtle critisism more hateful than something put out there--it seems to suggest that you're so naive and fragile that you can't handle the full truth). Also, I've found a lot of "constructive" critisism incorperates what could easily be interpreted as haughtiness--"Here, I don't really like what you did, so how about I come down from Mount Olympus to bestow upon you my humble opinion for improvement?"

Or God forbid the, "Hey, keep practicing, and maybe some day you'll be good, like me!" which I've actually gotten a good few times, and I think is thoroughly embarrassing on everyone's side.

And to be really, really honest, it wasn't really sarcasm intended to be mean. I mean.... I don't think the "in other news" part was....really sarcasm..... Uhm. But I still hold by my definition of a flame--only if it has NO FACTUAL BASE and directly attacks the artist.

Yes, I know the thing about bullies is true. It's blatantly true. Which was why it looked really awkward that you felt the need to reiterate it. Actually, in doing so, it made you look like the insecure one, not to actually suggest that. It's like saying, "Well, she's just spreading lies that aren't true!" As opposed to lies that ARE true?

By my rules of Internet manners, a reviewer should always be able to back up their claims and be nice with critiques if the artist isn't very popular (you don't really apply to that, though). And as an artist, it's too much to assume that a reviewer cares about your feelings or your well-being, but it's being self-riteous to assume that they wrote bad things purely to "get you." The most you can ever guess at is that they're trying to give you a wake-up call: Hello, you're not as good as you think you are. Improve. Get with the program. It's better to get that then just be in the dark.

Splitsecond's critiques were very generous--it's really quite a lot to be asking for her to be any more helpful than she already has been.

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White-Wolfen In reply to otherwise [2005-01-23 19:01:55 +0000 UTC]

If you're going to leave a comment, hon, at least be constructive. You do know what constructive means, right?

Constructive: Serving to improve or advance; helpful: constructive criticism.

I don't think your comment served to improve or advance this artist. Think before you type next time, mmmkay, sweetie?

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shimofuri In reply to White-Wolfen [2005-01-24 02:09:50 +0000 UTC]

being a condiscending dickhead isn't constructive either.

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