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ToAtoneArt — 'Third' Caos Reference Collab
Published: 2011-12-31 23:57:30 +0000 UTC; Views: 601; Favourites: 23; Downloads: 3
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Description
Anatomy etc. is based off of the original, semi original, etc. races, shown here:
DO NOT USE FOR ANY OTHER REASON, OTHER THAN IT'S INTENDED!!!
Collab between myself (lines, blur effect, and character) and the talented (shading and color).
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Comments: 23
Wow, where to begin.
Firstly, it isn't badly done at all. I just have a few issues with it.
1. Yes, it does look a lot like Utena. This takes a lot of points from originality. I know it's probably much too late to change that about this book character, but it is a bit of a problem. She might not look so much like Utena if she were wearing a full military uniform, rather than the shorts.
2. If someone didn't know anything about the varem race, her anatomy seems pretty off. But then again, for a half varem, her anatomy is almost perfect, so I guess this might be a moot point.
3.For the character of Caos, as you've described her, I think she should look angrier. She looks more agitated.
4. Her bangs are drawn oddly. Hair doesn't fall like that.
5. The dragon head on the sword is fairly cartoony compared to the anime feel of the rest of the image.
I hope this helped you in some way, and didn't come across uneducated about the series, or arrogant. Over all, she seems like a decent character, from a good plot set up book. I'm just glad her personality sounds nothing like Utena.
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Well, I appreciate the fact that you at least know something about the series, and the alien races before writing this. It makes it much less bias then the last one, which inspired you.
1. Yes. I know. You're completely right. And there's a version of her that has short hair and a full uniform... I'll put up a version of her like that eventually... *sigh*
2. Yes, and yes. lol
3. ...Damnit, you're right. >: (
4. Yeah, I know... I've gotten a lot better at drawing since then. This was one of my first.
5. I don't think so...but I can see where you're coming from. I think it's pretty much the best I can do atm.
It was fine. I wish I had scored higher marks, but I think this was fair. And no, she really isn't much like Utena at all, thankfully. More thankfully, she only looks like this for half a book. lmao
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Since you already had the cover art, with her on it, I know it's impossible to fix, but still @ Utena.
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A lot of these facial expressions look like they were copied straight from one of those "How to Draw" manga books. I have looked at the other references you have put up and it makes me believe even more that theses are highly referenced from these books because there is no consistency in the style from one character (sometimes facial expression) to the next. I always encourage people to use reference but keep in mind their own style when drawing. You don't want your style to get lost in someone else's art.
The story behind it seems interesting enough but that seems to be out-shadowed by how small the information is on the sheet. The characters also don't seem that creative in their appearance, I think a few of them have purple/pink long hair? And facial expressions seem to be wasted since, with a anime-esque style, most faces have the same expression anyway. My suggestion is to maybe add a little more information about the person, maybe extra clothing or carry-on items and make a new document with just expressions (i know different characters have different ways of looking angry/happy/sad).
Anatomy is a bit off, I would suggest elongating her torso and shortening her legs a bit (her legs are a little too long in the calf area, if you took off her boot, you could see it better).
Overall it didn't impress me but it wasn't too bad. I think you have a grasp on what you want to do but you need to refine it and make it yours. Hope this helps.
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I know the book series a little myself. Some of your points were dead on, but considering she's only been doing art for a few years, I think it's better than you gave it credit for.
Also, the anatomy issue isn't an issue at all, when you know what her race is, which is stated on her sheet. She looks humanoid, but is a varem, and her proportions match up with the reference image she linked you to. That same racial reference sheet shows she has a grasp on human anatomy as well, in anime terms.
The comment about the expressions was a waste of time on your part. Considering she draws anime style, how many expressions do you think there are in anime? I think she already covered that pretty well.
I should probably write one of these myself... As I know anime, as well as the book series, and like both so far, I might be able to be less bias.
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When doing a critique, it is not about "giving credit" to someone for improving. It is about trying to improve on what is there in front of me. I do not personally know the artist and have no idea how she has improve, I can only give my insight on what I see, here and now.
The anatomy, I still stand by. My previous statement about elongating the torso I take back and have suggested to the artist that she should either adjust the ratio between the calf and the thigh or give the calf a little more shape.
Expressions vary depending on the anime you are talking about, so it was not a complete waste of time. I have seen plenty of expression memes that deal in one style or another pertaining to anime and all boxes are filled. There are more expressions than just happy/sad/normal. My point I was trying to make is that the expressions do not change among the faces of different people, not that there are not many expressions.
If you know the artist, I find it hard to believe you could be less bias and give a proper critique. I have no relationship with the artist and therefore have no qualms about telling her how to improve. She asked for a critique and I gave her one. Not all critiques are to be nice and I have had plenty that sting a bit but once I actually look at my art again, they are glaringly obvious. I invite you to critique my own art. I would like an unbiased opinion and a real critique from someone I don't know. Thank you.
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Point taken.
Eh, I guess.
She used a more variety of expressions than Utena, one of her inspiration, so I guess it can's be too too bad. And most actual reference sheets, made by actual anime artists, only have 2-4 expressions. It's an example. A reference for the most basic of expression. Not a showing of every possible expression there is. It's a book. Use imagination. And different characters have different expressions.
Examples, staying with the 'upset' expression. [link] <--Calling out in agitation [link] <--Irritated [link] <--Holy hell pissed [link] <--Cutsy but super mad gritting teeth [link] <--Almost depressed and crying.
Yes, some are similar. Many are different, though, showing her range, as well as the fact that some people might respond similarly, and others might be completely different when upset.
I know her. I also don't like her, and would be more prone to give a negative feedback. I would sooner be an ass to her than nice, but I wanted to give more informed feedback, as I know more about the subject.
Someone who didn't know anything about Star Trek might say it's stupid, fanboy crap about a futuristic world that never did, or will, happen. Someone who knew it better might point out how several of the machines and gadgets we have today were inspired by the ones on the show, proving that the future showcased there is just slower in coming than people once thought.
I would, too. But I'd also like them not to just look at it for face value, and be informed about the subject. You can't judge a book by it's cover. You don't have to be nice, and I understand you didn't know about the rest of the story, but it says right on the reference she's part or wholly symbiot. Didn't you even wonder what that meant? There's a question mark next to the word human, obviously meaning she isn't that, but perhaps appears to be thusly. Me myself, I would have refrained from anatomy comments, at least, without even knowing the anatomy of the creature/person in question. Thank you.
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I have discussed with the artist that there was a lack of links to information discussing her subject matter. I have given many critiques from written work to different forms of art. The critique was simply what I thought of the reference sheet and the artist did agree that the calf did look a little thin for the girl's frame. These are suggestions for aesthetics at this point since human anatomy cannot be referenced for this particular character.
The critique was also about the reference sheet, so the Star Trek reference doesn't make any sense to me. The critique is about the character design/anatomy/reference sheet, something you really don't necessarily need to know the entire story for. Avatar has giant aliens but you don't need to watch the movie to make a judgement on the character design.
I am standing by my critique that was meant for the artist. I do not see why you are getting so defensive if you "don't like her." Artist strive to be better than what they currently are, myself included. I know what it's like to get a harsh critique, I am not ignorant to that. I understand there is more to a character than the reference sheet but there was no link to a bio or one in the description, making it hard for me to find exactly what I would have needed to read. Even if I had known they had long legs, I still stand by beefing up the calf so it had a little more muscle structure to in instead of looking thin and frail (the artist commented on them being runners or good at running, with further proves my point).
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I got defensive because I like the story, and I honestly didn't agree with some of your issues. Like Stephanie Meyer or whatever and her book series. Twilight sucks and was horribly written, but as far as I know, the woman is alright. I find Autumn to be a sugar coating bitch with too much of an opinion, but that doesn't stop her from being a great writer, and a decent character creator.
I see your point. Here, let's just let bygones be bygones? Again, I'm not fond of her, so I hate sitting here and 'fighting her battles'.
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I'm all for letting bygones be bygones, I just didn't want you to think I was "bashing" her. I really do a lot of critiques for people and let them in on what others see when looking at their art. Sometimes it's hard to get a decent critique from someone because they just want to praise you. You said you were writing her a critique, would you mind writing me some? XD I would enjoy your honesty. And Twilight does suck <3
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Yea, I can at least give her that; she's opinionated, but takes constructive crit decently. More than I can say for most of DA.
Sure. I can do one tonight.
Gods yes it does.
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A lot of your critique was insightful, and some of it was slightly helpful. But a lot of it was misinformed. I don't think you did enough research on the books series these arts are from, of which enough of it is available in my gallery.
I actually do have my own art style. It purposefully takes from many different art styles that I grew up with. Even my pieces that aren't referenced at all reflect that fact, so that's fairly inaccurate. And I rarely ever use art books. I find them useless, and prefer to look at actual images that may remind me of one of my characters if they were to make that expression, make it full screen on my computer, grab my sketch pad, and go. My style has been referred to as being 'A happy medium between Utena, Sailor Moon, Naruto, and something else'.
The story is vague and small, again, on purpose. I have a book series (more of a writer than an artist) that's going to be published soon, and I thought having a few reference static sheets would be nice to slip into the book. I don't want to give too much out about her character here, and would prefer people to buy the book if they're interested in learning more than such a small over view. I'm not going to write a lot of info about characters from a book series I want people to buy. You get less info from the back of a book on a specific character.
Chaotica and Caos are, essentially, the same person, which is why they both have similar colored hair. Carnigio and Karnyge are, again, technically the same person. Again why similar colored hair. And since they are the only two with purple/pink hair aside from Christie, whom is technically one of their granddaughters...
I show expressions, because one character might sooner cry, another might sooner get angry, another might grit their teeth, or squint with a vein bulging on their forehead, etc. Knowing anime, even as static as it might be, different characters have slightly different looks, depending on character and personality. That's more so a complaint about anime style in general than my art, to be honest.
I did these very much like professional anime character reference sheets, which also only have one set of most typically worn clothing, two or three expressions, and the most characteristic, important accessory (weapon, etc. Some of my characters have three or so of them I drew out, such as Ivy, or Martain, others of these reference sheets, found here. [link] [link] )
The anatomy could probably be better explained if you look at the races image I have for each of our original races. She's half Varem, and they do have very long legs, fingers, and arms. Hence the long legs. The races reference is in my gallery, if you'd like to look at it. [link] I'm sad you didn't get the chance to before judging the anatomy on a character that is an alien race, as stated on her reference sheet here. (The Symbiot host child thing). But I'm not shy about the fact that I'm still learning anatomy, though I've made long strides, leaps and bounds over the past year.
It did help in some areas, and I really appreciate you for writing this! The areas that weren't accurate, or correct to this made me feel it was 'Unfair', though. I think you would have to know more about the subject in particular to be able to give a more fair assessment. You graded it against other anime art, not against 'Well, this is an alien race with long legs, and for a non-established book, etc.' But again, I really appreciated your input.
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I wrote this critique with just the knowledge given on the page and what was in front of me. There was no real link to the book series or any other reference on the page itself, so I was not trying to be unfair, I was working with the source I was given at the time. I wouldn't expect anyone to fully understand my own characters so I was taking this reference sheet at face-value.
I still stand by the legs looking a little bit off. I understand they have really long legs but maybe it is the ratio between the calf and the thigh instead of the ratio between the entire leg and body. Or perhaps the calf wasn't beefed up enough. I'm thinking clearly for aesthetics at this point where something may not be 100% anatomically correct but looks pleasing anyway. I'm really not trying to push this to make you mad, anatomy is a big deal for me and I struggle with it myself sometimes. And I did not grade it against anyone's art. I look at is as how it is and how it could be (in the sense, if you tweaked this a little, it would look better) from the anatomy standpoint.
I'm sure you've grown as an artist, I look back at things I have done and feel proud of myself too. Just know I'm only giving this critique to help. I always extend an offer for someone to critique my own art, because it is only fair. A good majority of the newer pieces in my gallery are open for critiques, I would love for you to visit me if you have the time. Thank you.
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Understandable. I should put a link on the page. That's a good idea I totally hadn't thought of!
Again, that's just sort of how I have them built. I'm sorry you're not fond of it. 
I might, if I find time. And if you're able to, after looking at my race references, maybe you might be able to give some more critiques? I'm not mad. Maybe just frustrated at the lack of you knowing things about the series that are posted--but now that you've pointed out my lack of spreading it around, I'm more frustrated with myself, and I plan on fixing it. And your critique provoked someone who knows the series a bit better to write one as well. And though the stars were about the same, the perspective was a little different, and felt more fair. So, again, I have to thank you. I've been trying to get crits for months! lol
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No problem! I have the same problems with getting critiques. :/ I'll read a little more about your story before I give future critiques now that I know it is available. I do not have much in the sense of back story on my pieces so don't worry about judging my stuff at face-value (if you have the time it is! XD). I'll get back to you with future critiques!
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Much obliged, much obliged.
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wow~!this is very nice!
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Thanks. ^^ I've been second guessing it a lot, because of her similarities to Utena, though. -.-
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