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Winged-Stone In reply to TheFungiCat [2019-08-13 05:16:55 +0000 UTC]

He doesn't allow wrinkles or hat variety and is thus banned from such lessons.

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Ozkumeti In reply to cat-frog [2019-10-22 04:26:14 +0000 UTC]

If someone's so sensitive that they can't handle another artist poking fun at common mistakes--in a tutorial they're voluntarily reading in what I assume is a genuine attempt to improve--then they really don't have what it takes to be an artist. An artist should be constantly working and improving and never let themselves be content. They should WANT to know their errors to perfect their craft. People take criticism way too hard. It's criticizing technique, not your moral fiber, for goodness' sake.

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-10-22 22:59:41 +0000 UTC]

how did you even find this comment lol

the goal of an artists doesn't have to be improvement, and saying that it SHOULD be the goal of all artists is ludicrous. art should be fun, it's a tool and a hobby. the only people who NEED to focus on technical improvement are the people who want to take it somewhere professionally, and even then it's a case by case basis. growing up i was surrounded by friends who poked fun at my style and constantly urged me to practice and improve. i felt like skill was the only thing that mattered. it's a horrible headspace to get into and it ruined the entire craft for me. i felt like my artwork wasn't worth posting, heck.. wasn't worth MAKING unless it was always an improvement or practice.

giving critique when it isn't asked for is just rude. and i think mocking any art flaw commonly done by children/newbies is immature, and does nothing more than make people feel foolish. I prefer seeing tutorials that simply give instruction without feeling the need to tear down anybody. I'm not saying people CAN'T, I'm just saying I think it's stupid. I don't like it personally. Just makes me roll my eyes and want to find better tutorials.

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Ozkumeti In reply to cat-frog [2019-10-24 15:24:20 +0000 UTC]

ill show you the steps:
1. have nostalgia for an artist you followed years ago
2. check to see if they were still around
3. huzzah, they made a new tutorial
4. scroll down through comments to see if anyone has anything noteworthy to say
5. ???
6. PROFIT!!!

and now you know. it was very complicated, truly.

we definitely have different points of views. i find any craft or hobby without aim for constant improvement to be an absolute WASTE and i don't understand the mindset behind it. if you enjoy it and are going to fill your time with it, you should want to be the absolute best you can be... in my opinion. i don't understand complacence or accepting stagnating skills. i don't draw anymore, but i do home remodeling and DIY projects and if a pro noticed my skimcoating on drywalling and teased me a bit about how it looked sloppy, here's how to do it better, of COURSE i would be grateful, because why would i settle with less when i can improve my skills and make my drywall that much better in the future? if they stopped at just making fun of it, it would be rude. but if they were making fun of it in a way that i understand WHY it looked bad, and then showing me how to correct that, you damn right i'd sit up and listen. but we clearly have different ideas of what is proper.

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-10-24 22:35:14 +0000 UTC]

I figured they would have gotten so many comments mine would just be totally buried :y

remodeling a home is pretty different from something like drawing. doing it /correctly/ would be more important, whereas something like drawing is all based on opinion. People do hobbies differently but when it comes to something like drawing, writing, scrapbooking, etc; it isn't done just to become a professional, or to have the most sellable style. It's done as a form of expression, as a way to have FUN or to explore new skillsets. Thousands of people create art, and they do it all for different reasons. It's so silly to assume they all NEED to, or want to get professional level skills. Especially when it comes to beginners and children, offering unwarranted or rude criticism is completely out of line. 

I meet SO MANY PEOPLE (kids, teens, and adults) every day who hate their own skills, bash their style, and give up artistic hobbies because they feel like they're failing. they feel like because they can't draw professionally or with technical accuracy, that it just isn't worth trying. so it irritates me when I see people going around and acting like practice and technical skill outways all other aspects of the creative process. hobbies are there as a positive coping mechanism, they're supposed to make you happy. Some people have the most fun improving, but others dont. Others are happy just doing fanart, or just drawing their emotions, or just coloring lineart. and that's fine! they're allowed to do it their own way, just because their work doesn't fit into professional standards doesnt mean it's worth any less, or that it should be poked and prodded into changing.

it's something that takes a long time to improve at, and not everyone has FUN working so hard to improve it. if the only feedback you get is criticism then of course you wanna jump ship. giving out criticism in a nice way is apparently impossible for some people? not sure why. just something i dislike. Plus, it's pretty easy to help people improve without being an ass. I see lots of really kind and informative tuts that dont poke fun at anything. Lots of tutorials that only show ways to improve, rather than focusing on what people do wrong. So I love those way more. Just my preference I guess

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Ozkumeti In reply to cat-frog [2019-11-09 17:52:24 +0000 UTC]

woah sorry been busy with school forgot about dA

nah nah, you misunderstood my example. skimcoating drywall has nothing to do with structural integrity and everything to do with making it look nice. there are tons and tons of examples in remodelling i could give you that have to do with looks rather than necessity. like butt or miter joints in wood. both will work just fine, but miter joints look better. and the same with drywall finishing. a quick finish that leaves joints a bit visible will still get the job done, but it won't look very nice--you can leave it as it is in a garage or something where people won't see it often, or hide the imperfections with a texture. if i saw that sort of work, i'd figure that A. whoever did it was inexperienced or B. they're lazy and don't care. and the same with paint drips. they don't hurt anything. but they don't /look/ nice. and they're a sign that whoever did it was inexperienced or sloppy. so nah--doing things correctly isn't always about importance. as soon as we're outside of the walls, it quickly becomes a matter of looks more than anything. i apologize for the tangent, but this is a giant peeve of mine.

i mean the thing is, i don't disagree with you. maybe granny just wants to draw birds as a hobby in her retirement. cool. she won't be getting any prestige for her skills, but as long as she's happy, whatever. i agree with your points for the most part--but if i'm going to be honest, it's still just something that grinds my gears. not because there are bad artists out there, but because i'm someone who feels that anything worth doing is worth doing to the best of your ability, and so seeing people who don't mind having skills that go stagnant is just something that makes me scowl a little internally. and please do not mistake my urge for people to improve with my urge for people to achieve technical perfection. there are few people that can draw a stick figure and say "i've done it. i've reached the absolute epitome of my craft. i have no desire to improve from here on out." i mean simply improving your skills to what you individually feel is an improvement. OFTEN this includes technical skills, but just as often it includes more of a stylistic change to something that fits your expression better. i do not consider rumiko takahashi's style to be the height of technical perfection, but it can certainly be someone's end goal and hey, all the more power to them. hell, even the order of the stick, a stick figure comic, improved its art while never straying from the stick figure format. so no, it's not that i think that everyone has to aim to michelangelo, but just that i absolutely do not understand anyone who doesn't want to improve their art in some way. at that point, they're not an artist to me, but someone who doodles. i feel like artist gets thrown around loosely when it should be a term that applies to people who really do consider art their craft and aim to learn more about it and improve. there are 8 year olds who are more of artists than some 40 year olds by that definition, so i'm not defining this by age.

i absolutely disagree with you that "if the only feedback you get is criticism then of course you wanna jump ship". that has nothing to do with art and everything to do with temperament. i mean, all of the above i just mentioned, i could completely overlook--if someone never wants to improve, fine, let em be. but it's this "artist means lily livered" environment that i. cannot. stand. people should never be encouraged to be sensitive. if you can't handle people not treating your hobby with kid gloves, then you just don't have any place in the real world. it's that sort of mentality that makes me barely able to restrain myself from landing a good cuff. take the feedback or not, but don't be such a damn weakling about it, and have the balls to say when you're happy with your own art. people can poke fun and you can not get offended. it's possible. (using a general you here, not a specific you)


it's definitely a preference thing tho. i strongly suspect my own pov has been colored by having friends who wanted to go to school for art and become arteests for a living and then went home and rolled around and cried because waaah a professor said a mean thing about their art and they didn't think it was perfect. whereas i was drawing for fun and i was trying to soak up as much criticism and skill as possible. it was a hobby for me and a future livelihood for them but how we treated our art was reversed. it's just that sort of entitled, wishy-washy personality that has made me much harder. because i used to believe the exact same as you--your whole post could just as easily have been something that i wrote a handful of years ago. but now i'm jaded and just want these damn kids to grow a brain and some guts and settle down. i.e. yeah maybe this tutorial wasn't said in the lightest softest fluffiest way of "teehee this is how i draw clothes but you can do it any way you want everyone is an artist everybody is special <3 <3" but it wasn't anywhere near harsh enough to warrant a reaction imo. if you're getting your feelings hurt by a tutorial that isn't even criticizing you specifically, i feel like you need to reevaluate your own ability to stand on your own two feet in life, *for your own benefit* if nothing else...

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-11-09 20:09:59 +0000 UTC]

oh come on, seriously? just because someone doesnt want to improve their skills that suddenly makes them a 'doodler' instead of an artist? i'd hope it means something more than THAT. you define it in your own way, sure. good for you. But it's ridiculous to hold everybody to YOUR little standard of skill. who cares if people want to get better or not! the fact you're so personally irritated by someone ELSE'S art journey is strange. someone can 100% be an artist whether they practice or not. I honestly think being an artist is about expression and fun, way more than it is about technical skill.

good lord you sound like some 4channer griping about PC culture right now :'b
criticism is a good thing, and it can be done soo well. I'm not against it as a concept. I just don't think there's ever a need to be rude or to make fun of someone.
from kids to newbies, there are lots of fresh, impressionable artists around. I for one would hate to drill into their minds that the BIGGEST MOST IMPORTANT thing they can do is practicing. the best thing any artist can do is literally just have fun. 

Usually once someone has fun doing something, the technical aspects and areas of improvement really shine through. people insulting me or nagging me to improve? people shoving unwarranted criticism at me? made me unhappy, made me want to draw less. made me feel like art wasn't worth doing unless I was ALWAYS practicing. Finding the things i wanted to express in my work, and the subjects i enjoyed drawing, no matter what skill level i was at? that saved the hobby for me. way more than any improvements or criticisms did.

sure, everyone should learn how to handle criticism. but calling them sensitive or lily-livered isn't going to help. it's just going to piss people off. there are plenty of constructive ways to offer art advice and to help new artists learn fundamentals. 

namecalling and nit picking will usually just push people away. young artists already get made fun of for every little thing they do. cringe culture is insane, kids cant do ANYTHING without getting torn apart. it's brutal and its way too normalized. you can teach people skills and help them grow without being a jerk. 

and when i say this stuff im not just talking about THIS tut and it's specific form of advice, but I'm speaking generally. it's not like i saw this tut and collapsed into a ball of tears lol
i thought you could tell i was speaking overall? idk

most of all this tut just irritates me. it irritates me personally, because it reminds me of all that other stuff i already talked about. I didn't even say much, my initial comment was a small gripe. you're the one writing an essay about it. which is fine, but.. just looks silly when you're acting like I'M the one over reacting ;y

At the end of the day this is all your problem anyway. You admitted more than once that it's a person pet peeve ie 'it's still just something that grinds my gears'. Great, improvement means a lot to /you/. Also, what you seem to be missing is there is a difference between criticism and mockery. Idk or care about your friends specific experience but 1) a professor saying 'the hands are too big and it throws off the drawing. try this to fix it by doing this' vs a professor saying "this is ridiculous. those are hulk hands? it looks laughable' one way may be hard to take for some people, which is their own personal thing to deal with, and the other is just mean. And pointblackperiod you shouldn't really mock stuff unless you wanna look an asshole. Even though this comic gives advice on how to improve, the opening just seems immature and self serving. Especially because it's beginners who draw like that, which is, debatably, a step in the process of learning anyway. Some people may want to practice a hobby for purely fun/personal reasons and not worry about improvement. I'm sorry that person's decision personally offends you and like you said, /you're/ jaded. it's your issue. I'm pointing out why I take issue with the comic, why I think it's counterproductive, rude, etc. 

so that's that, i know we wont be able to agree on anything here, but I feel confident I've made my opinions on the matter clear.

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Ozkumeti In reply to cat-frog [2019-11-10 01:23:40 +0000 UTC]

oh i see what you were getting fussed about
"but it wasn't anywhere near harsh enough to warrant a reaction imo. if you're getting your feelings hurt by a tutorial that isn't even criticizing you specifically, i feel like you need to reevaluate your own ability to stand on your own two feet in life, *for your own benefit* if nothing else..."
nah i wasnt calling you out for overreacting, i just meant in general. if you* cant handle a little teasing from a tutorial you sought out, like... good luck in life lol. so that's why /i/ felt that this tutorial wasnt exactly going to CRUSH THE SPIRITS of all aspiring artists. there's a difference between ruthlessly dragging someone's art to their face and making fun of generic mistakes imo. and the last one is the one people need to grow balls for.

*general you

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-11-10 09:33:24 +0000 UTC]

I feel like you aren't understanding me. of course this tutorial wont 'crush the spirits' of a new artist, but to me it's needlessly rude. I dislike that style of teaching, I don't like tutorials like this because it reminds me of all the harsh criticisms people dish out. Not saying this tut is even that bad. 

it's just irritating and unfunny to me. I don't like it. I never said it was A HEINOUS AND BRUTAL SLAYING OF YOUNG ARTISTS or whatever you think I'm implying. It's just annoying.

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Ozkumeti In reply to cat-frog [2019-11-10 01:18:54 +0000 UTC]

hehe. yup. different viewpoints here. neither one of us or can be objectively right. you're clearly biased and have your own issues yourself. and i'm not sure what nerve i hit on you? i never acted like you were the one overreacting? citation plz. you made a comment. i disagreed and responded. you responded again. i responded to that and repeated multiple times that we clearly have different standards. and you responded yet /again/ so i responded in a way i figured would make my stance crystal clear... and also emphasized that yes, these are personal beliefs and standards as a show of good will.
and, uh. if you think i'm the one writing essays in response, might wanna pop open a word counter and check your replies. they aint exactly been succinct pal.
no i knew you were speaking generally. as was i. i already said i was using a general you, not a specific you.
yes. i hold people to my own standards. as you do too. we have different standards. this is groundbreaking, i know. there is literally nothing else to say to you.
still gonna calls em like i sees em if people are lily-livered.

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-11-10 10:08:19 +0000 UTC]

condescending and apathetic. of course.

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Ozkumeti In reply to cat-frog [2019-11-10 20:23:48 +0000 UTC]

no not really. more like trying to end a pointless conversation with a modicum of respect and politeness and clarify what seemed to be some triggers for ya. but since you don't want to go that route, let me just reply in kind.
whiny and bitchy. of course.

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-11-10 21:36:11 +0000 UTC]

here ill do the honors 

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cat-frog In reply to Ozkumeti [2019-11-10 21:35:00 +0000 UTC]

"we have different standards. this is groundbreaking, i know."
condescending af
i cant find a hint of respect in any of the things you've said

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ChatLunatique In reply to cat-frog [2019-08-13 14:01:41 +0000 UTC]

Or pointing out common errors with lighthearted humor... I'm 60 years old and I often make these mistakes.

Edited...(I can't spell properly either it seems... sorry about  that)

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cat-frog In reply to ChatLunatique [2019-08-13 15:46:18 +0000 UTC]

I guess we just see it differently :3
I've seen them do tutorials before, and I've never been a fan of the jabs.

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JitteringFeeling In reply to ??? [2019-08-13 00:54:33 +0000 UTC]

New watcher. Also thanks for the advice here, its pretty usefull :,)

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lynx318 In reply to ReiAndHana [2019-08-13 00:28:31 +0000 UTC]

I...I...like my "Trash sack nonsense lumps"   (actually commented laughingly) 

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ReiAndHana In reply to lynx318 [2019-08-13 12:11:35 +0000 UTC]

R: xDDD Leave my lumps alone~~! 

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lynx318 In reply to ReiAndHana [2019-08-13 12:40:05 +0000 UTC]

Did mean my own. One line in the whole strip that hit the laugh meter into the red for me.

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KOTR13 In reply to AlexandraAlex [2019-08-13 12:22:03 +0000 UTC]

The skinny cat is Zib, the eyebrow cat is Rocky.  They're characters from Tracy's webcomic, Lackadaisy.

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AlexandraAlex In reply to KOTR13 [2019-08-13 23:52:35 +0000 UTC]

zib and rocky..ok got it!    

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