HOME | DD

#caranthir #feanor #tolkien #haleth #beleriand #silmarillion #haladin
Published: 2015-01-03 09:59:13 +0000 UTC; Views: 29711; Favourites: 273; Downloads: 161
Redirect to original
Description
The history of relations between Men and the Eldar was possibly the subject within his own writing closest to Tolkien's heart, and often enough, especially in the most famous cases, it is the relationship between genders. Invariably, in every man/elf pairing, the man is, well, a manThese two were a lot of fun to paint, as both are long-time favorites of mine from the 'Silm.' I'm quite proud of Caranthir's "korinthian spangenhelm," I imagine this is one of the "tall helms with plumes or red" wrought by Feanor. His overall silhouette I wanted to feel like a cross between ancient nordic styles with a classical greek elegance of form. Haleth's swirling blue warpaint (or possibly tattoos) was of course inspired by the ancient celts, but the high "eyebrows" they culminate in was actually inspired by those sported by the fearsome Lady Kaede in Kurosawa's "Ran," and the way they wrap around her wrists came from how Athena is often represented holding snakes in both hands (I imagine they might end in little serpent heads). She's a warrior by nature, one of these inherently mighty specimens humanity produced a lot of in its earliest generations, I wanted to depict her topless not so much to sexualize her (although as I mention above sexual tension is an important part of the piece) but on the thought that, like the real life ancient celts, the haladin warriors might, by custom, fight stripped to the waist (or possibly even completely nude) and as their new leader Haleth opts to go bare-chested into battle as well. I loved the image it provided, not only for the tension between her and the elven lord, but providing this vision of her as this timeless, archetypal heroine-savior figure, like Delacroix's "Liberty leading the people", Joan of Arc, Boudicca, Elizabeth Tudor or the goddess Athena (or more recently Jennifer Lawrence
Related content
Comments: 83
JeantineHobbit In reply to ??? [2015-01-04 00:30:56 +0000 UTC]
Dang! Well then thanks for the pictures! They're certainly gonna help!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Mc-Kid In reply to ??? [2015-01-03 14:45:51 +0000 UTC]
Your artwork and Tolkien interpretations are always interesting, relevant.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
TurnerMohan In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-03 15:48:25 +0000 UTC]
thank you my friend, i think of all the women in the silmarillion haleth is definitely the most modern feminist-friendly character, it's not that the others arent strong characters who go for what they want and on their own terms (like idril, galadriel, luthien, nienor and, well, aredhel seems like the most independent of the bunch but then she kind of gets snared) but the fact that in haleth's case it's never about a man; that she remains a queen and a badass first and foremost, gives her a slight edge above the others, and honestly tolkien's criticisms of haleth's rule cant help but seem just slightly chauvinistic, like "she would have served her people better if she hadn't been so damn proud and strong-willed." it's criticism of a variety that real-life female leaders have always had to endure from historians (which in it's own way almost adds to her sense of reality as a character)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mc-Kid In reply to TurnerMohan [2015-01-07 15:21:25 +0000 UTC]
I agree about Haleth and all of your reasoning, the last part it's especially clever and sensible.
I always liked the battle in which the people of Haleth are saved by the intervention of Caranthir's troops and the following meeting, and I remember that your first deviation I ever faved is a portrait of the Edain matriarch herself.
Speaking of Galadriel, she's my favourite Tolkien woman character (maybe more because of how I was moved by the Lothlorien chapter of TLotR than for an actual superior complexity or charm, doing an objective evaluation now wouldn't be easy ), so I can't help but ask where is the man connection to her actions: is related to Celeborn, to a part in which is explained how she knew and hooked up with him?
I remeber how thrilled I was in reading that she is something like the second "mightiest" Noldor of all times after Feanor (also my favourite character), by the way. Somewhere in the Unfinished Tales, if I'm not mistaken.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
ElrondPeredhel In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-23 17:47:59 +0000 UTC]
It is, indeed, in the Unfinished Tales. And not only is she said to be second to Fëanor only but she is said to be "The mightiest of the Noldor, except may be for Fëanor, though she was wiser than him, and grew wiser along the years". So she is equal to none except "may be" to Fëanor (and still the wisest of the two).
But like many people I am a bit confused about these last writings since Galadriel loose a lot of her charisma in the way when she is not anymore a rebellous princess, leading her people along with Fingon and Fingolfin through the ice, but a nice student of the Valar with just a tendancy for exploration. I believe it is related to Tolkien associating her with Saint Mary... I'm not so found of that last "bigottery-power" part of Tolkien's life.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
TurnerMohan In reply to ElrondPeredhel [2015-01-23 22:05:10 +0000 UTC]
i think toward the end of tolkien's life he became really occupied with consolidating and in a way evangelizing his own subcreation (as he came to call it) what started in the 1910's and 20's as basically his own loving riff on old norse pagan sagas evolved to have increasingly christian undercurrents, and the continued consolidation of good and evil (and say, the idea that a character like galadriel is wholly good, and basically never on the wrong side of anything) is kind of overbearing and undermines the moral complexity of his world and characters as they existed at the time he was writing the lord of the rings, in which he seems to juggle his many inspirations (pagan myths, christian undercurrents, modern applicability) with a more even hand. i consider it fortunate that the silmarillion - the most complete single volume of his posthumous corpus and certainly the most well known - seems to have come mostly from where he was at in his lord of the rings phase; christopher tolkien has pointed his many probable mistakes in compiling the silm, but from everything i've heard the result is probably better, in terms of striking that pleasing balance, than a "corrected" silm more in keeping with tolkien's last thoughts on the subject would have been.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
ElrondPeredhel In reply to TurnerMohan [2015-01-23 23:14:42 +0000 UTC]
Indeed. I am reading a "Tolkien dictionnary", a French book written by Tolkien fans and scholars and published by the CNRS (it's a real consecration for Tolkien who was underestimated for many years in France), and there are very intersiting parts about the personnal mix that Tolkien did between pagan sagas and religion.
Apparently Tolkien was really impressed by what he calls "the spirit of Ragnarök" in his youth : heroism without hope, basically "better dying on my foot than living on my knees, an association of nihilism, stubbornness, and faith in an afterlord kept only to those worthy. The best example of it being Théoden : I never remarked it before but when he says "I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset" it's a very ambiguous sentence. Does he means that he won't have been "to his fathers" if he wasn't worthy ? Does he means he would meet only those worthy ? It is (on purpose I believe) unclear since I think that Tolkien wanted to imply both that Théoden believed in some sort of Valhalla and in the christian heaven or something in between these two conceptions.
There is good and bad in the late Silmarillion. The bad is the part about Galadriel and about animals of Arda having no souls (despite countless evidence in his own published work). The good is about the solar system existing since the begging and the re-writing of Eves knowledge by ignorant men that led them to believe the Earth could go from flat to round... even if I like the ancient version I like even more the co-habitation of the two as two different traditions. Same goes for the Orcs being of mannish origin.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Mc-Kid In reply to ElrondPeredhel [2015-01-23 18:51:06 +0000 UTC]
No doubts about the wiser part! Even cooler that she appears to be the basis for comparison more than Feanor himself.
I understand what you think about Tolkien's "bigottery" (I didn't even knew this english word existed), but I don't necessarily dislike the idea of Galadriel having gone beyond her rebellious phase and acquired a more balanced personality. I surely like how in TLotR she's able to control a lust for power that's part of her.
Her strong character is still undeniable and appreciable but her general passiveness after the arrival in Middle Earth is pretty disappointing, I agree, as is for most of Tolkien's girls, which tend to have a secondary role and to be easily associable with the "holy picture" stereotype zone.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
ElrondPeredhel In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-23 23:03:32 +0000 UTC]
I didn't know "bigottery" either before I began to read Turner's writings !
I don't dislike the idea of having "gone beyond her rebellious phase and acquired a more balanced personality" as you put it : what I dislike is the idea that she was that way since the beggining. Tolkien's work is so complex that you can take whatever you want : I take the late writings about Galadriel being a wiser feminine counterpart of Fëanor (which is cool and striking) but I don't take the "she was so gentle that she defended the Teleri" part (that came after). Though I like the idea of her brandishing a sword, the part with the One Ring is a lot less interisting if Galadriel didn't have that attraction for power that Tolkien described.
The "I do awesome things as a virgin and then settle with a man and have children" is, indeed, pretty annoying with Tolkien. Though, like Melian, Galadriel is not the worst in that aspect since she still is the main character of her couple which really makes her stand out. And I think that is not unlike Saint Mary and Joseph : who cares about Joseph anyway ?
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Mc-Kid In reply to ElrondPeredhel [2015-01-23 23:21:50 +0000 UTC]
I'm thoroughly with you.
Except for a single, but not so little detail.
To be honest I don't remember to have ever considered that Galadriel could have taken part to the first kinslaying in Alqualonde. The memory I had these days from the Silmarillion readings of my teenage saw just the Feanorians taking part on it.
And as far as I prefer a more realistic ambiguity to absolute righteousness and I agree about the One Ring part (that attraction to power is indeed an important aspect of the character and makes even more interesting and admirable) I admit that knowing that Galadriel could have been among them is quite unsettling and, petty me, I'm not sure I'm completely for it... it seems kind of too much, from one extreme to another. One thing is rebellious and craving for independence, another murderous without a strong (albeit clearly preposterous) enough motivation like the Silmaril quest.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
TurnerMohan In reply to ElrondPeredhel [2015-01-23 23:13:24 +0000 UTC]
god sure as hell didn't, he just invited himself right into that marriage
oh and just FWI (and because i feel responsible for the mistake) it's spelled "bigotry," I'm probably not the best person to learn new words in english from
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
ElrondPeredhel In reply to TurnerMohan [2015-01-23 23:18:11 +0000 UTC]
FWI ? French West Indies ?
So you spell "God" as "god" and "I" as "I" : you sure have some guts and no fear of the divine wrath ! Thanks for correcting me, it's just a french thing to double letters so don't worry, even in french it is written "bigoterie" (but we don't use it much in everyday life).
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
TurnerMohan In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-07 16:33:17 +0000 UTC]
galadriel comes to middle-earth because, like the rest of her people, she's strong willed and hungry for adventure (although the circumstances of her departure from valinor change from telling to telling, in tolkien's latest versions of the story celeborn was a prince among the teleri of alqualonde named teleporno - great name tolkien - and they actually fought against the feanoreans at the kinslaying, and then took a telerin ship to middle-earth themselves rather than having to cross the grinding ice) but once she gets to beleriand, great as sheis always remarked to be, she just hangs out in doriath (which is where she meets celeborn according to most sources) and learns alot from melian, which is kind of how i suppose she comes to occupy this "melian II" position among the eldar in the second and third ages (not that there werent plenty of wise and powerful maiar spirits she would have had the opportunity to learn from in valinor
) she doesnt really take part in the great deeds of the age like her male cousins, luthien, or even her kinswoman idril, who is said to have fought with a sword at the seige of gondolin (though in fairness to galadriel, aredhel doesnt do much either except go on an adventure and get herself kidnapped)
I guess that's what i mean in setting haleth apart; galadriel's a strong female character, they're all strong female characters, but at the end of the day their life choices are all pretty heteronormative; they marry a man and from then on, especially in the "good marriages," basically let him take the lead, and they have children. they all, despite whatever independence of spirit they're always remarked to have, continually fulfill the traditional "woman's role" and in this respect haleth stands apart; she never marries some man of the haladin who becomes the real de-facto commander of their people in war or otherwise, and she never has sons who take over the rule of her people for her, the leadership of the haladin simply reverting to her nephew after she dies. she commands the haladin in peace and war by herself, and keeps a guard of trained female warriors. One almost senses that haleth doesnt especially like men, or atleast, like a modern feminist, is not going to obligate herself to play by their rules; maybe she had lovers among the haladin but no husband. I think in some ways the fact that her single-status is never "cured" is something tolkien holds against her in subtle ways; "she was proud" is something that is said of her more than once, and I always sensed that part of what she was too "proud" for was finding a husband to share the rulership of the haladin with (this was a criticism ceaslessly lobbed at the also husband-less elizabeth tudor during her reign, especially by english catholics) even eowyn, who seems to take many pages from haleth's book, settles down after her great deed (with alarming speed no less) to become a wife and mother.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mc-Kid In reply to TurnerMohan [2015-01-07 16:57:53 +0000 UTC]
I agree just as before. I just wanted to know if there is something specific about Celeborn being the reason of her inaction and I was otherwise of your opinion... but thanks anyway for the Galadriel elucidation, I'm appreciating these Tolkien revisions.
The Teleri-Celeborn version (the Teleporno thing disemboweled me up, fortunately the name wasn't made definitive ) is particularly interesting, the way it would have made her rebellious to the Feanorian to the point of joining their opponents is incredibly cool and admirable, even if not as heroic as it would be without the involvement of a recent love interest.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
TurnerMohan In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-23 21:55:37 +0000 UTC]
I'm actually currently at work on a picture of young galadriel in valinor (back when she was known as the "man-maiden" - a little sexist-ly of the elves i think, all of the "mannish" traits attributed to her seem to be all about her physical and mental greatness) which i hope you'll get a kick out of. it's high time i took her on, i think
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mc-Kid In reply to TurnerMohan [2015-01-23 22:13:24 +0000 UTC]
Bring it on, mate! Eagerly waiting for it. And I agree, it's about time to see your take on her! Especially on her far less featured youth.
Didn't knew anything about that nickname! Or maybe I just forgot it. Is it mentioned in some volume of the History (of which I have some of the most notables from a trip to London a decade ago, but I never read anything of 'em because my Tolkien obsession started kinda fading right after and I stopped reading everything related) or in one of the Tales?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
TurnerMohan In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-23 22:33:13 +0000 UTC]
tell you the truth i forget exactly where "nerwen, the man-maiden" comes from (though i remember the elvish name itself, and that she was remarked to be a contender among both the athletes and great thinkers of valinor, go figure) it's high time for an attempt at tolkien's most remarked upon awesome-lady, basically the jennifer lawrence of her time
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Mc-Kid In reply to TurnerMohan [2015-01-23 22:41:51 +0000 UTC]
Yeeep.
But, without denying how lovely she looks, please don't base her on Jennifer Lawrence!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
TurnerMohan In reply to Mc-Kid [2015-01-23 22:46:08 +0000 UTC]
nah, typically i try to stay away from celebrity likenesses (except for fili and kili, who are always short richard bransons in my mind for some reason )
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
JeantineHobbit In reply to ??? [2015-01-03 11:52:42 +0000 UTC]
Nice tats... Yeah I spelled that right. Haleth looks very 'Amazonian'. Although as much as I would prefer not to picture stuff like this until after I'm married, I must admit there's something particularly badass about a woman covered in tattoos literally roaring like a velociraptor, leading an army and skillfully cutting down enemies on the battlefield, so much so that Two Ages later there are boys and men named after HER! Are you suggesting that she might have a thing for Caranthir but didn't give in because of her pride and just refused him instead? You reading this Tauriel?!
Caranthir: Nice paint job milady. Did it tickle? *smirk*
Haleth: No, it f*ckin' hurt like hell.
Tattoo artist: I don't recall you makin' any complaints while you were gettin' them ma'am.
Haleth: *smirk*
Caranthir: 0-0 ...
Just finished 'Of Aulë and Yavanna". I love Aulë's comeback! "And that night Aulë was forced to forge himself a couch to sleep on!"
I friggin' love the dwarves more now too! Too bad the Hobbit movies messed that up. But I have figured out a way In which to accept them: they're just like the Marvel movies. Only they had the honor of being inspired by Tolkien's works!
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
JeantineHobbit In reply to JeantineHobbit [2015-01-05 00:37:58 +0000 UTC]
I still haven't watched a Princess Bride but I really want to! Also I think Thranduil probably would have used Orcrist in the textual battle. And my headcanon is the reason that Bilbo joins him and Gandalf is not only for safety but also to complete the Gondolin blade set in case they die.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Zeonista In reply to JeantineHobbit [2015-01-03 23:34:08 +0000 UTC]
Best text-supported takedown of Tauriel as a conventional heroine yet! I do like Tauriel, but I must conced your point that compared to Haleth (or some of Tolkien's other heroines) she is pretty weak stuff.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
JeantineHobbit In reply to Zeonista [2015-01-04 00:14:56 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, I like her too, my mental image of Tauron is actually this huge male Vala version of Tauriel. But still I was a bit disappointed with her in Battle of the Five Armies. I mean, seriously Eowyn, a heart-broken human with less years of training and battle experience took on the friggin' Witch-King! (Yeah, she had help from merry but still...) On the other hand Tauriel an elf with years and years of training took on Bolg and just got beat up. I was really just expecting her to show that fire she had in Desolation of Smaug (no pun intended). Would have been better if she just participated in the actual battlefield only to find Kili's dead body afterwards, and knowing that she never even got a chance to try and save him! That would have been heart-breaking! ):
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Zeonista In reply to JeantineHobbit [2015-01-04 23:03:09 +0000 UTC]
I consider Tauriel's poor showing against Bolg a moment of honesty in Hollywood swordplay. Even if it is meant to set up a Dwarf hero for a heroic death. The match makes sense, since Tauriel's woodland patrol equipment is OK for dealing with animal-derived creatures and Orc hunters & scouts. But against a big armored hulk like Bolg, a pair of tanto-like daggers is (literally) not going to cut it. You can kill a guy like Bolg with a dagger or knife as a coup de grace thrust in the eye or throat after you smash the paen of a pollaxe into the back of his knee, then bash him in the face with the axe-head when he falls down. If you bring the fight to a big bruiser like that, you have to be ready to put him down hard and fast, or he'll do the same to you. One senses that even in a bad spot Haleth would never underestimate a foe to that extent. Or at least she would have used a weapon with a little more heft than a dagger.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
JeantineHobbit In reply to Zeonista [2015-01-04 23:39:04 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, that is an effective way to take out Bolg... but nothing beats a good ol' Bear-crushin' (yeah, I'm still a bit upset about Bolg's fate in the movies... Way too much Legolas fan-service *slowly shakes head*) Also I think he was a bad influence on Tauriel: jumping on huge monsters isn't really her thing.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Zeonista In reply to JeantineHobbit [2015-01-05 00:20:06 +0000 UTC]
Grappling a foe who outweighs you by 25 kilos or more in terms of muscle will generally end badly. I guess Legolas and Tauriel never watched A Princess Bride.
For the absence of Beorn, I firmly blame the Hollywood studio heads for proving (again) they don't know what the fans want, and insisting on conventional Hollywood drama instead of just letting PJ do his usual thing. Despite all the triangle and the Legolamb service, it still didn't help in the end; it took gravity to make sure Bolg was out of hp! What saved the Legolas inclusion for me was him deciding to toss Orcrist to Thorin for the final showdown. One wonders if Thorin might have lived to be an older and wiser king if he was actually able to swing the sword in the textual battle, instead of it being in some storeroom in the Elven-King's palace?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
JeantineHobbit In reply to Zeonista [2015-01-05 00:41:11 +0000 UTC]
I still haven't watched A Princess Bride but I really want to. Also I think Thranduil was using Orcrist in the textual battle and in my headcanon the reason Bilbo joins him and Gandalf us not only out of respect or safety reasons but also to complete the Gondolin blade set in case they die.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Zeonista In reply to JeantineHobbit [2015-01-05 04:09:29 +0000 UTC]
Alas, he was not using it in the textual battle. The sword was taken from Thorin when he was imprisoned, and Bilbo didn't find it before he broke the Dwarves out of prison.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
JeantineHobbit In reply to Zeonista [2015-01-05 05:21:02 +0000 UTC]
Dang. I guess I need to read the book again!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Zeonista In reply to JeantineHobbit [2015-01-05 08:04:13 +0000 UTC]
S'okay, I know not everybody has read and re-read The Professor's stories as much as I have. I have found something new or different, or confirmed a detail of interest, nearly every time I went back for another trip to Middle-Earth, so I encourage everybody else to do the same.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
JeantineHobbit In reply to Zeonista [2015-01-05 08:38:05 +0000 UTC]
Consider me encouraged! Still I would really like seeing that 'Completing the set' scene in another adaptation of The Hobbit sometime if ever. Preferably one where Turner Mohan is a leading concept artist!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
<= Prev |