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Twarda8 — Zygarde
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Published: 2013-11-09 00:38:53 +0000 UTC; Views: 26103; Favourites: 1438; Downloads: 0
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Just a "warm up after 2-months long art block" painting. Watch the process here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4lHBG… First sketch: twarda.tumblr.com/post/6592559…
I dunno why people dislike this pokemon. I like it. As I mentioned here and there - some sort of legendary version of Dunsparce, lololol.
Also, as I'm already talking about it - did you notice how 6th generation legendaries have the colors of 1st generation games?
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Comments: 72
All legendaries follow that similar pattern ;> It's either Red, Blue, Green or Red, Blue, Yellow haha. I like to think Giratina's golden things counted since they glowed in Platinum's start-up menu, and Kyurem's glow and eyes were yellow
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my knowledge on the 6th gen sucks a lot xD. i'll check this guy stats tomorrow. good job
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Not the best stats, I must admitt it. The typing is another Garchomp. Also almost useless ability.
I belive in the third version of the game it will get some 'boost', like mega evolution or form. Aside its look, there isn't much to say about it, in a matter of competetive battling.
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I looked at his stat, and i couldn't have said better. It seems, like Kyurem, he's the great "villain" ^^
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Or he could be like Rayquaza.
He IS the ORDER Pokemon, remember? He's probably the leader of the Nordic trio (Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde).
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having not played yet to X & Y, i don't know if he's the order or not ^^"
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His ability, Aura Break, REVERSES the effect of Dark Aura and Fairy Aura. It makes them weaker.
By that understanding, I think Zygarde is meant to be the order of the trio.
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Its stats are pretty underwhelming. Easily the weakest new legendary of Gen 6. It's cool looking and has a nice theme, but it's not all that good. Its attack and speed are underwhelming for a legendary, with base 100 and base 95 respectively. Its only real use is as a Dragon Dancer due to above average defense and HP, but it faces stiff competition from Dragonite in that role due to Multiscale and a higher attack stat.
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> says Zygarde is the weakest legendary
> Zygarde having the highest defense of all dragon types
Seriously, I had my Zygarde fighting against a Mega Lucario, withstood a Dragon Pulse from it, and OHKO'd it with Land's Wrath (Zygarde's signature move).
I hadn't even put it through Super Training yet at the time.
Now, his Sp.Def is 200. Nearly as high as his Def, which is 215. and he's only lv 77.
And I up'd his speed, it's 185 now. About as high as his Atk, 188.
I didn't touch his Sp.Atk, 174, because of his Rash nature and Mischievous characteristic.
If I keep leveling him up while he's holding a Power Band, he'll been a straight up force by lv 100. A speedy wall with power.
Camouflage actually helps in making Zygarde a threat. In wifi battles, Camouflage change the user's type to Normal and Zygarde learns Extremespeed by lv 88.
A STAB'd Extremespeed on a pokemon with high Atk isn't something to laugh at.
Don't even think about underestimating me!
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Statistically speaking, he is the weakest legendary of Gen 6. His base stat total is 600, while the other legendaries, Xerneas and Yveltal, both have a base stat total of 680.
In addition, Zygarde's attack isn't all that high. Base 100 is extremely underwhelming for a Dragon type, being only as strong as Flygon. Base 95 speed, while not bad by any means, is far from speedy, and leaves him outsped by the numerous base 100+ Pokemon roaming the tier. His defenses are his redeeming quality, as he does have great physical bulk, in addition to above average special bulk. No one's disputing his defense, but his offenses are where his problems lie.
Also, Camouflage is horrible on him. Dragon Dance or Coil grant more damage to ALL attacks he uses, while simultaneously increasing Speed or Defense, respectively. Using Camouflage also means you give up STAB on Earthquake, which is not really a wise decision.
While Xerneas and Yyveltal have already been banished to the Uber Tier, Zygarde falls well short, and is OU at best. He is not a wall, as he lacks the resistances to wall any significant threats (whereas things like Skarmory wall Scizor, Ferrothorn walls most water types, etc.), and lacks reliable recovery outside of Leftovers and Rest. Zygarde functions as a bulky sweeper, as his physical bulk can allow him to set up either Dragon Dance or Coil with relative ease, much like Dragonite does with Multiscale. However, Coil is what differentiates him from Dragonite, as while it doesn't affect its speed, the boost to defense in addition to attack makes it harder to revenge kill by common things such as Mamoswine, Scizor, or Talonflame, whose powerful priority can usually stop sweepers cold even after a boost.
I can tell you're not really the type to have any serious interest in competitive battling, so let me just say; Zygarde falls well short of its previous gen counterparts, such as Rayquaza, Giratina (both forms), Kyurem-Black, and Kyurem-White (though maybe a little better than normal Kyurem). It's not bad but as far as the "third" member of a legendary trio goes, he is statistically the weakest, and will probably thrive in OU whereas its counterparts thrive in Uber.
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I said "Zygarde learns EXTREMESPEED at lv 88." That kinda helps for Zygarde's low speed.
Priority overrules Speed, even when Paralyzed.
Also, since you forgot about this, Zygarde is a Dragon/Ground type. That leaves him with a 4x weakness to Ice type attacks. Camouflage is a quick way to not only cover for that weakness but it'll also switch his STAB effect to another move he'll have; Extremespeed.
A STAB'd Extremespeed deals 120 damage to most types except for Rock, Steel, and Ghost but Land's Wrath and Dragon Pulse can deal with them.
If Zygarde is given a Silk Scarf, his Extremespeed will raise to 144 in damage.
Like it or not, that's some hard damage when it's unresisted.
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Extreme Speed is not enough to sweep. Ghost and Steel types are on every single team. I am not even exaggerating. In addition, even considering STAB, and Silk Scarf (which, by the way, is a horrible item to use on him as it only boosts damage for one attack), Extreme Speed off a base 100 attack is not as powerful as you make it out to be. It's only enough to 3KO a standard 4 / 252 / 252 Blissey, dealing 39.72 - 46.93%. Blissey, by the way, has a defense that is laughably low at base 10. While Blissey doesn't exactly threaten Zygarde, it's just meant to be an example, emphasizing how much damage it actually does.
By the way, a +1 Extreme Speed (which is the equivalent attack boost of either a single Coil or Dragon Dance), even without an item boosting its attack, deals 44.17 - 51.99% in the same scenario. Coil or Dragon Dance outdamages Extreme Speed in every single situation, in addition to boosting its other attacks, and its defense or speed respectively.
While Camouflage does spare Zygarde from its current weaknesses and give it an immunity to Ghost, it also strips Zygarde of his immunity to electric, and resistances to fire, rock, and poison, in addition to adding a weakness to fighting, and fighting type moves in general are extremely common. Most Ghost types (which are immune to your precious Extreme Speed) carry Fighting type moves due to the fact that Ghost/Fighting have perfect neutral coverage together.
In addition, there is no reason to use Land's Wrath in Singles. At all. Earthquake is better in every single conceivable way. Same PP. Same accuracy. More power. I'm sorry, but if you're using Land's Wrath then you're clearly doing something wrong.
In addition, Zygarde's special attack is low at base 81, so Dragon Pulse is terribly weak on him.
Using Extreme Speed on Zygarde is the only logical thing you've said. Every other move you've suggested is gimmicky (Camouflage), weak (Dragon Pulse), or outclassed (Land's Wrath).
Not to mention that Zygarde's ability is literally useless. Due to the fact that Xerneas and Yveltal, the only two Pokemon who Zygarde's ability affects, are banned from standard play, Zygarde effectively has no ability.
You can argue it all you want. Zygarde is decisively average by legendary standards. He may not be bottom of the barrel like the Regi's, or Articuno, but it still falls well short of Uber. Again, it's by no means bad, but it faces stiff competition from Dragonite as a bulky sweeper due to the latter's superior ability and higher attack stat.
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1) MY Zygarde has a Rash Nature AND a Mischievous Characteristic. His Sp.Atk is quite high for a Zygarde.
2) I said I Super Trained my Zygarde's Sp.Def so he can be a full wall. I'm still leveling him up with a Power Band on him.
And 3) Dragonite is slower and has lower HP and Defense than Zygarde and shares the same type weaknesses as Zygarde as well as also being weak to Rock type attacks.
In terms of using other Dragon types if I couldn't use Zygarde, I'd rather use my Noivern or my Moxie Salamence than a Dragonite.
At least both of them are fast enough to get in a hit.
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Well, despite the fact that you've failed to refute most of my points from the previous post, I'll continue to discuss this.
1) Rash is terrible nature for Zygarde. You compromise his Special Defense by 10% in order to give him a 10% boost to his low special attack. This is completely counter-productive for Zygarde as a bulky sweeper, as it makes it harder for him to survive special attacks. He is far better off with an Adamant or Jolly nature, which lowers his special attack, which he shouldn't be using anyway as he is outclassed as a mixed sweeper by both Salamence and Hydreigon. If Zygarde is to be taking an offensive role, he needs to commit to his attack, which as I mentioned, he can boost in one of two ways; this is how he maximizes his offensive presence. When choosing a nature, the lowest stat is usually the stat that is chosen to minimize in terms of your nature. There are exceptions to this rule, but Zygarde is not one of those exceptions. This also allows you to make the most of your EVs; by focusing on one attacking stat, you can put more EVs into that one stat, which makes it more effective.
2) Super Training is pointless due to the fact that it's wildly inefficient; Horde Battles are infinitely better for EV training, as with Pokerus and Power Items, and using attacks that hit all targets, you can get 50 EVs minimum per Horde Battle and end each Horde battle in one attack. Sweet Scent guarantees you get a Horde Battle as well, so a Pokemon can have a stat fully EV trained in 5 battles. Much faster than Super Training. Not only that, but Zygarde is still not a wall even if you EV train it as such, because as I mentioned before, it lacks the resistances to completely wall any relevant threats, and has no reliable recovery outside of Rest (which puts it to sleep and thus places it at the mercy of the foe), and Leftovers (which is gradual). Most walls function as such due to a combination of reliable recovery and appropriate resistances. Jellicent, Skarmory, Blissey, etc... All of them have reliable ways to keep themselves healthy, such as Recover, Roost, and Softboiled. Plus, EV training its special defense when you're already lowering it with a Rash nature is just pointless.
3) Dragonite has access to Multiscale, which halves all damage he takes when he's at full health. This ensures that he's able to survive most hits, which almost guarantees that he is able to set up a Dragon Dance. This is what made him the premiere bulky sweeper of Gen 5. While Dragonite is indeed weak to Rock, it's also immune to Ground, both forms of spikes, and resists fighting, bug, water, fire, and grass. Not only that, but Dragonite also has an amazing movepool; unlike Salamence and Noivern, it has access to priority in the form of Extreme Speed, and unlike Zygarde, has reliable recovery in the form of Roost. MoxieMence and Noivern are both late-game cleaners, and outclass Dragonite in that role. But they are very prone to revenge killing due to their lack of bulk; most things Dragonite survives outright KO both Noivern and Salamence. It's a flawed comparison to compare Dragonite to Salamence or Noivern just because their typing is the same, because their niches are very different. It's just like you wouldn't compare Zygarde to Flygon or Garchomp due to the shared typing; Flygon makes a better scout, Garchomp makes a better wallbreaker, and Zygarde makes a better bulky sweeper.
Did you know? Dragonite was the most used Dragon type in Gen 5 competitive battling for a reason. He was consistently in the top 5 in overall usage, sitting at #4 behind Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Politoed, but ahead of Tyranitar. And there is a reason for that; his combination of bulk, power, recovery, priority, wide attacking options, and ability to reliably boost his stats make him a top-tier threat that can rampage through any team that isn't prepared for him.
You're entitled to your preferences. But it doesn't change facts. In addition, you're not actually refuting any of my points. I'm getting a little tired of this, but if you want to debate further, then by all means.
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Can you say that again without sounding pretentious?
Also, you lost all of your creditability from me when you made that dumb face at the end of your sentence.
I was taking you seriously until that point.
Btw, have you ever used Super Training to max EV your pokemon even once?
I use it any and every chance I get and I've had other people directly tell me that my Super Trained pokemon have some impressive and/or insane stats.
For example, these are the actual current stats of my Zygarde:
HP: 293
Attack: 197
Defense: 226
Sp.Atk: 183
Sp.Def: 211
Speed: 194
And he's only lv. 81. I can still improve these stats before he hit lv. 100.
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And you lost all credibility when you resulted to the fallacy of ad hominem.
I have used Super Training. And it is not efficient, at all. Super Training is an alternative means of EV training; it has the same end result as the traditional means of EV training. However, it is FAR slower than the traditional means due to the introduction of Horde Battles. I already explained this. Factoring in Pokerus and a Power Item, with 5 Horde battles, all of which can be auto-induced with Sweet Scent (since Sweet Scent guarantees that you'll get a Horde battle, as long as it's not raining on that route), you can gain 250 EVs in a single stat in under 5 minutes. It doesn't matter what "other people tell you"; why spend several times as long EV training when it can be done in a heartbeat?
By the way, listing stats is useless information. The relevant information to indicate how statistically strong your Pokemon is would be Nature, IVs, and the exact EVs you've given him. With that information, how his stats compare to the average is easily calculable. Without that information, the stats are just a jumbled mess that doesn't really tell anyone anything, due to the fact that IVs will cause variations, and EVs can add up to 127 points total to your stats (63 in any one stat). Generally, even the "minimum" stats that people look at are considered to have 31 IVs in that stat, 0 EVs, and a neutral nature. But I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that's not the case here. In addition, stats are usually measured at level 5, 50, and 100, due to the fact that these are the levels used for competitive play (with 5 being for Little Cup, if level 5 seems to be one of these things that's not like the other). This is because no one really has the patience to measure the minimum/maximum stats for every Pokemon at every level 1-100. That would take a few lifetimes. Though unless you kept track of the exact EVs that you gave him, you wouldn't be able to calculate his IVs, as all IV calculators require you to know the exact EVs you've given them (hence why most people calculate IVs before EV training). You can get general estimates from the IV checker in Kiloude City, but the exact IVs require calculating.
And you've still ignored like half my points.
Again, I have never said Zygarde was bad overall. I said that he is the worst of the three legendaries introduced in Gen 6. And statistically speaking, he is. Nothing you can say is ever going to change this fact. He is 80 base stat points lower than both Xerneas and Yveltal, and while his ability is meant to counter Xerneas and Yveltal's abilities, the fact is that since they're so much better than Zygarde, they tend to be banned from competitive matches while Zygarde is not. Ergo, in competitive battling, Zygarde's ability is effectively useless. In addition, I have argued that Zygarde faces competition from Dragonite in the role of a bulky attacker. I have not said one is outright better than the other, but by that same merit, it means that one isn't an automatically better choice, so they have to compete for the same team slot. And that is a fact, as both function similarly, but with different advantages; Zygarde has better hp, speed, and defense, while Dragonite has a better movepool, ability, and attack.
That said, I merely stated that the way of using Zygarde that you are suggesting is not efficient, and generally inferior to Zygarde's actual potential. But hey, more power to you. If it works for you, that's your choice, but against stronger opponents in the competitive scene, efficiently maximizing your Pokemon's stats becomes mandatory to even survive, let alone win.
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I expected something like that after having seen his stats. thanks for the infos anyway
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captures his intimidating presence nicely the somber colors really add to this
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