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Twilight-Deviant — Phantom of the Opera--Chibis
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Published: 2007-04-11 23:22:16 +0000 UTC; Views: 11588; Favourites: 396; Downloads: 549
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Aww...
I would have drawn a Christine to complete the set, but I don't like her for one. For two, just looking at her hair and her big puffy dresses...It's not worth the trouble.
I actually printed Erik (Phantom) on one side and Raoul on the other and ta-da...new bookmark.
So, yeah I am like sooooo obsessed with The Phantom of the Opera right now. Such a good story.
I love Erik and Raoul is just sho cute. 
I don't rant often (I don't think) but here comes a rant about Raoul.
The Raoul Rant:
I just don't understand why so many people hate him. I can't go anywhere without seeing people take part in 'Raoul-bashing.' It doesn't make any sense. Usually when characters get bashed they're stupid or annoyingly evil.
Raoul has done nothing wrong!! He is an all around good, awesome character. Why don't people like him?
Is it because he ruined the ending for the book/movie? Okay, let's examine this closely. Raoul went to save Christine from the antagonist (correct me if I'm wrong, but in most plots this is a good thing) and got captured. Christine made the choice between which one she wanted!! If you want to blame someone for the Phantom not having a happy ending blame her. Better yet, isn't Erik to blame for his own unhappy ending? He let them go!!
There is nothing wrong with Raoul. He is an awesome, lovable character. And Patrick Wilson, who plays him in the 2004 movie, is nothing short of adorable!! And he has the most addictive sweet smile.
And the whole 'Fop' thing isn't funny anymore. You want to keep calling Raoul a Fop? Fine!! I can't stop you. But, let's look closely at the word.
fop - a man who is excessively vain and concerned about his dress, appearance, and manners.
(As provided by Dictionary.com.)
Now, if you want to call Raoul a Fop under this definition it wouldn't be too very far from the truth. (Giving the aristocrat that he is.) But, think about it...doesn't that mean that Erik is also a Fop? I mean look at him. Is he not obsessed with his appearance? Does he not always dress to his finest? Are his manners not extravagant? I rest my case.
Okay...now I stop.
EDIT: 07/19/2009 I'm sorry, but I'm disabling comments. I'm simply tired of people continuously trying to argue that Raoul is not a good person. Or that he is some prissy princess who "stole" Chrstine. Even though if you took one second to read what I typed above, pure logic would beat that claim down. Think, people. Saying anything akin to the opposite is the sinking ship of a defense. (fyi: I write off anyone who says as much an idiot on the spot. It lets me know you probably just watched The Phantom of the Opera through a couple of times and think you know it sooo well.) I no longer want to have the same discussions over and over and over. I keep giving the same facts again and again and winning little debates with common sense and a nice insight into the plot.
Yes, I have read the book, seen the 1925 movie, and the 2004 musical. I have also written two separate papers (one of which was more than twelve pages long and involved many weeks of research) on all of these and more Phantom of the Opera versions. Don't try and challenge me because you've read the book and think you have something over me. You cannot tell me anything I do not know. Erik is pitiful. I love him as much as I love Raoul. But!! He is still the antagonist. That isn't going to change. Raoul is the hero. And if you feel like fighting me on this simply to be difficult, I'm going to give you some un-debatable definitions straight from dictionary.com as they are relevant. Okay?
Protagonist: the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work. (In the book, which started it all, Raoul is portrayed as the main character as the book is told from his perspective. This and the fact that we simply know the protagonist as the hero must make us claim Raoul as it because he tries-- to the point he brushes death-- to save Christine and put an end to the Phantom which haunts them all.)
Antagonist: a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent. The adversary of the hero or protagonist of a drama or other literary work. (This simple definition should be enough, but no. Laying it right out there for you too blind to see: Erik terrorized the Opera House from the shadows. He kidnapped Christine and sent the whole plot spiraling downward into a dark mess that would have otherwise been a happy story of love between two childhood friends.)
I'd say debate the highlighted truths, but I typed them for the sheer fact that I'm sick of that.
Erik is the antagonist. Raoul is the protagonist. And Christine is a bland character who WILLINGLY chose the Vicomte over the Phantom. STOP blaming things on Raoul. Bashing him is a practice whose stupidity is on par with jumping out of a plane without a parachute.
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Comments: 125
Aww, these are so cute! *gives them both hugs*
Yeah, I don't get the Raoul bashing thing. Personally, I've always loved him, and having him and Christine together. Not to say I don't like Erik, I just like Raoul too.
And the fop thing annoys me. If that's the definition, then Erik must be the fop in the story. Who is the one who's always worried and sad about his face? 
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Lovely pic!! I'd with more than pleasure choose Erik!! He's so decent and the good guy
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I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you, I promise. It's just that I have to ask. Are you acquainted with the story of The Phantom of the Opera? Like, at all?
I myself think with a mindset that there is no villain in the story as we are supposed to see both sides and hate neither Raoul nor Erik. However, there is also no denying that the Phantom is the antagonist of the plot. Decent and good he is not. If anything, he is the exact opposite of those adjectives.
Thank you for the comment.
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Hi there! Just jumping in on an argument that's not mine, and certainly not meaning to be offensive either, but Erik is not the antagonist in the original novel by Gaston Leroux, from 1909 (1911 in English). I admit Webber made him a bit of an antagonist, and I also admit that Erik did heinous things, but he's still the protagonist if you consider what a protagonist really is in literature. The protagonist is the character who changes or grows the most in a piece of literature. At the beginning of the novel, Erik is a bit of a monster. He's committed murders in the past, and he's not above dropping a chandelier on the innocent opera-going public. He may have killed Joseph Buquet. Even if the didn't outright kill him, he's certainly at least partially responsible. He lies to Christine, abducts her, (even binds in, in the original, and threatens to kill her and Raoul and everyone else in the Opera if she doesn't marry him!). By the end, however, he is able to let her go--even sends her off to marry Raoul with his blessing ("Go and marry the boy whenever you please. I know you love him..." He dies of grief from his love for Christine, and that's just the point: He gives up his own life so she can be happy, something he NEVER could have done at the beginning. Christine also changes a lot, so literary analysts make the case for the novel having dual protagonists. Christine grows from a naive child to the woman who was able to look past the hideousness of Erik's face to acknowledge his humanity, and by kissing him and showing him true compassion (real love, if you will, even if it's not romantic love, it is love nonetheless, that even his mother could not show him) she helps him realize his humanity.
Of course, I agree with you that he's not "innocent and good" but then, is any human being innocent and good? No... we all merely manage to subdue our evil impulses more often than not. Erik has done abominable things because he believed he was not human. Once he realized he was, he did the same as any of us--he curbed his natural desire and did what was best for everyone else.
Of course, Raoul is not a 'bad' guy either. He loves Christine. But as literary figures go, he loves Christine in the beginning, middle and ending. He's always in love and he's always a bit childish in that love, but nevertheless he's courageous enough to risk his life for the woman he loves and he's always willing to forgive her no matter what. He's a great example of a lover, but all in all, he's a flat character. No growth, no depth, no change, because it would not have served the author's purpose.
A reason why lots of fans easily fall for Erik is because we get to see the depth of his personality. Raoul, while wonderful, isn't as fully developed as a character, so it's harder to get to know him, and therefore a bit harder to love him, though there is no question but that he is not in any way "bad."
Sorry for the long post... just had to get that all out.
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Don't worry, I'm not offended. I know that there is both good 'n evil side, but I find the Phantom very nice. I don't hate the others, I just find the Phantom so special, he really makes the musical awesome 
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Well, yes, he's a very good character, but I don't see how he himself could ever be seen as nice. Ever. The only one he ever really shows kindness to (unless you have read the book and may include the Persian) is Christine, but even to her he has his moments. He's nothing more than an outcast of human society who doesn't know how to properly treat people. Whereas it is not his own fault to be cruel, it still his way of life. Niceness and goodness are not in him.
I simply had to offer no offense beforehand. Wanted to make sure you didn't take it the wrong way.
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No prob at all, it's fine to question if you think something seems wrong. I know it is the Phantom who is the evil one, but he sings very well, and doesn't reaaly use violence, unless he must. He is nice in his own way, but yeah, he is not pure. I really never said he was pure. It's always good to ask, in case u think it's taken the wrong way
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Well, now, in the musical he uses violence when it's not so necessary. The way he killed Joseph Buquet was awfully violent, and Madam Giry says they've seen him kill. (Of course, I'm only playing devil's advocate. In the book Buquets death MIGHT have been accidental and his other murders were in the long past.)
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Yes I agree that his way of being mean is violent, but otherwise I think he's kinda nice
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To borrow a phrase from Into the Woods: "nice is different than good."
He doesn't do good things, but I do think he's a nice person underneath it all. He's certainly well-mannered when he tries to be.
I don't disagree with you. Hardcore fan here. If I'd been Christine, Raoul wouldn't have stood a chance because I'd have married Erik long before Raoul had a chance to hear me sing on stage that night. But then, I live in modern day where deformities are understood. But my point is, yes, I agree that Erik is ultimately a wonderful person underneath it all. But I can also see why others don't see him as nice.
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You express yourself very clearly and well^^ You have very good points
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Thanks!! See you around on the posts.
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I like Raoul, but I don't like him at the same time. I like him because there is nothing wrong with him, but I don't like him because he stole Christine away.
I think the reason that people don't like Raoul is because he is very... girly too. He is a fop. Actually , the definition of a 'fop' is "A person of male sex who takes particular care in their looks in a feminine manner." So that is why Phantom is not a fop. Phantom is manly and very masculant. Raoul is too, but to a certain extent.
Plus, since annoying fan girls are taking over Phanom Of The Opera, they take the hot guy. I think that they are both somewhat attractive, but I like POTO for the story line, not the people.
So, to conclude, people don't like Raoul becuase he is feminine in a way, he stole Christine away from Phantom who was desperate for her, and because fan girls are obsessive over the manly, 'cute' one.
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But Erik DOES try to take particular care of his looks. He can't help that he doesn't have a nice face to start with.
Ultimately, neither is really a fop. Both characters are romantic men of the 1800s who are out to impress a lady. They use what means they can. Of course, in the book Raoul is described as being rather feminine, but not all feminine men are automatically fops. It's the fastidiousness that does it.
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I know hwe does. The reason he dresses so niceis because that is proper opera attneding attire. To have it make since, he dresses as such. At least that is what I think.
What is fastidiousness? I haven't been up on my vocab in a while...
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Well, yes and no. It's proper "opera attire" for attending an actual performance. He's there all the time, even when there's not a performance. I'm not sure one needs to be dressed in such a way. And in that era, being overdressed was about as much of a faux pas as being under-dressed. Going out in evening attire in the daytime, for example, would be utterly unacceptable. The argument that Erik does not go out at all, if you consider the book, doesn't apply, because he does.
A person who is fastidious is very meticulous in some fashion--maybe about appearance but it could also be something else. Meticulous... as in, they pay extreme care... more than is considered "normal" for their culture or society. As to "having your hair look like that" if you're talking about the 2004 movie, that whole movie was one big foppish nightmare. Raoul's specific hairstyle is not mentioned in the book. I think it was really just a movie disaster.
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ah. Well, I thought that was the reason why he looked so coolio. I don't really consider the book because I haven't read it in a while. I go by the 2004 movie most of the time also becasue that is where most of the debate is.
HA! Foppish nightamre!!! It wasn't as bad as 'Twit'light, ah? Did u see that crappy movie?!
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Ah. I see. Well, I suppose there's more debate about the movie, but that's because there are so many errors in it, even if one ignores the book and considers only ALW's stage version of the musical as a basis. But I'm one of those who goes only by the book--a true Leroux-purist because... well... I taught literature for years and the book came first and all that.
I didn't see Twilight. That one, I didn't even bother to read the book of it, and you have to do something really heinous to discourage a literature teacher from reading a book. Maybe someday I'll pick it up and take a look... but I heard that the movie was so diverged from the book as to be unreal. I can't imagine WHAT they were thinking. Absurd.
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you were a lit teacher? Wow! Like, at school or as a private thing?
Twilight the book isn't too great. VERY unrealistic. Scientifically and emotionally. The ovie was so bad, I almost ran out of the theater screaming 'EWWWW!'. oh well, what are we going to do?
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Yes. In a school. For about ten years. After about eight I decided it was not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life, so I went into counseling instead, but it took a couple of years to complete that degree. I taught from 1998 to 2008, grades varying from 8-12.
I heard the book was good, then I heard it was bad. Mostly I hear it's good from people who are moms with daughters between 8 and 12. I think much older than 12 and it seems unrealistic. And the moms of those girls like it because they like anything that pleases their daughters without being a corrupting influence. I just avoid movies as much as possible. Can't be helped. Standards keep getting lowered.
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oh wow! I am in sixth grade, and lit is really my fav subject. It probably seems so easy to your 12th graders... but I still like the fact that u were a teacher! I want to be an author or psychologist. But... the psycologist thing may not come out because it is a lot of work and money. Oh well, I will KEEP WORKING!
AH! LOL! I totally see what you mean! If only they knew what was in Breaking Dawn... they have... eh.... and have a kid. Big, drama filled, ugly so-called novel. Talk about corrupt.
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LOL. YES!
Well, that's GREAT to be in 6th grade and love literature! That's really fantastic. I think I knew in 7th grade or so I wanted to teach English, but then, after doing it 10 years, I changed my mind.
Well, 12th grade lit is pretty hard for 12th graders because they give them tougher stuff to get them ready for college.
Keep both the writer and the psychologist options open and don't let it being work or expensive stop you. I thought that as a teacher I would have a lot of free time to write, but I didn't, so I never really got to become a writer (though I write a lot of fan fiction now, and I am going to try to publish something for real as well...) and even if I had, it's tough to make a living at it. Psychology pays very well, especially if you go all the way for your PhD. Even if you don't, I've got friends who make a lot with a masters in counseling. And you write in your spare time and can still publish. You'll do it, if you really want to.
And yes... I heard about the baby in the later book. A little upsetting for all those folks who thought it was a good thing to read with the kiddos.
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I want to publish something. I am still young and have a lot to learn, but I still enjoy to write little stories. I have a fanfiction account too! What do you write about? I write of Phantom Of The Opera. I have a series going on. What is your account name? I want to go check it out. Maybe since you have some experience and know more about writing that I do, something may rub off on me.
Smiley1Face23
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My account there is the same here, except over there it has the vowels in it.
[link]
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0.0
I r-reviewed ur story "the real don juan triumphant"
I think my reviw explains why I can't write much! Too... busy... reading!
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LOL! Thanks very much for reviewing. And thanks also for the fave. This is my only truly funny piece. The rest are all very serious, angsty stuff, though you do run across an occasional happy ending. But I think the Real Don Juan Triumphant is my best work to date. Of course, it's not finished, so you don't need to rush through it. If you do, you'll just be waiting for my once a week updates like everyone else. (But then, sometimes I update 2-3 times a week... like this week)
Anyway... thanks!
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oh ok! LOL... my stories are like '
I don't think I will update soon... I am right in the middle of a 'SEVERE TORNADO WARNING' and I am typing from my basement... la de frikin da...
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Ah yes... like my "novel-length" fic that became never ending. Now THAT was a soap opera and a half. I honestly considered not ending it... you know... just going on forever the way a soap does... but some folks told me they needed some closure, so I picked a point and cut it off.
Severe Tornado Warning? Gosh... I hadn't even HEARD about that.
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^^ lol! Have u ever watched a Spanish soap! Those are the neverending ones that get you saying, OH C'MON!
Oh? Where do u live?
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A Spanish one? The ones we have, from Mexico, are the ones that actually DO end. It's the American ones, in English, like The Young and the Restless, that never end. My grandmother and mother have been watching that since before I was born, and I'm over 30.
In Texas.
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ooohhh! LOL! The spanish ones in america NEVA end! It is so long... called 'Te amo puesta del sol'. it means, 'I love you sunset'.
I din't know Y.A.T.R was that long!
Oh... do you guys not get that many tornados *feels stupid*
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I don't know what you mean about the Spanish ones in America. They do end. They all have ends. I mean, they might run a couple of years, but they end. I mean, inasmuch as Texas is part of America, which it really isn't, but you know... the government likes to think it is.
Well, not where I live so much. I'm sure other parts of Texas does. We get all sorts of weather. Snow in the North... 104 degree heat in the south. Desert in the west, tropic like beaches in the east... etc.
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Texas isn't in America? I thought it was one of the fiftes...
Ohhh... I hate HOT! I can stand warm weathr but not sweltering. I would be living in the snow-ish part!
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LOL. Well, on paper we are. Texas joined the U.S. (or... we allowed the U.S. to join us...) back in the 1840s, but Texas was an independent Republic at the time, and a lot of us really think it should go back to that again. But if you came here, you would probably notice (unless you were coming from as nearby as Oklahoma perhaps) that the culture here is completely different from he majority of the US. Even in our big cities, we don't operate the way New York and Los Angeles and such do.
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oh I see. why don't you operate as well as the huge cities? Is there some sort of economic thing?
I hate to ask this... but to you have a texan accent? I just gotta know...
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There are so many regions in Texas that there are a number of different accents. I'm in an area where you probably wouldn't notice an accent, unless you have a very distinct accent where you live.
And no... it's not necessarily economic... well... maybe it is... It's hard to say what the motivation is for things; they are just very very different here.
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oh i see. No, I really don't have an accent. At least, I don't think so. Then again, if an English person came along and heard me, they would probably say that I have one.
Oh. Okay...
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Firstly, Raoul did not steal Christine. I thought I'd made this quite clear. She chose him. And not simply because she saw him as a better option. Christine may pity the Phantom, but she does not love him. She is afraid of him, and she hates him. These are emotions that many people seem to overlook a great deal of the time. Love is not an emotion she can ever give him. So even without Raoul in the picture, Christine would not have chosen Erik. And in no alternate universe will she ever, save if he is threatening Raoul's life or those of all within the opera house by threatening to blow it up.
I did not say that Raoul was not a fop. I said that calling him one is getting old. Of course he is one. Such is the life of a rich Parisian gentleman in the 19th century. However, hating him on those grounds, or because he is feminine, is faulty reasoning and vaguely unfair to the character. That was simply the time he lived in.
I also don't know where you obtained your definition of "fop", but the sources (several) that I have visited only define it as a man obsessed with his dress and manners. Being feminine is one characteristic that is not even a requirement. Many are not. In fact, the wikipedia page: [link] even asserts that Bruce Wayne from Batman is a fop given his rich dress, perfect manners, and sporty lifestyle. And Bruce Wayne is certainly not effeminate.
Even so, I think you interpreted your definition of a fop wrong. It is not saying that the man himself is feminine, but that he cares about his looks with a woman's attention. Similar to today's metrosexuals. So that, even in that respect, Erik would be a fop. Never a hair out of place or so much as a wrinkle in his suit.
Also, fangirls aren't really obsessed over Raoul either. The whole point of that rant of mine was because they all hate him. Hate him. I'm one of few, very, very few, who actually prefers Raoul. Others (about 98%) take Erik in a heartbeat.
Fangirls have also been a part of the Phantom of the Opera fandom since the 2004 movie was released. They're not a new thing to it. (Well...maybe new in respect to just how old the story is.) Before that time people might have thought Erik as described in the book or perhaps as he was portrayed in the 1925 silent film by Lon Chaney, maybe even several remakes since then. And none of those representations are what one would call attractive. Despite that, I still love Erik deeply, whereas most of his fans right now would probably drop him. So yes, they are drawn to the looks of the character, but it is not Raoul they like. It is Erik because they find Gerard Butler to be attractive.
It is not really Raoul's looks that make me prefer him over Erik either, but that he is such an innocent contrast to the hardened Phantom. And though I love Erik very much, to see such a lighthearted and gay character in the midst of such a depressing story is refreshing. I've also grown to love him much more over the years as I've taken up my unofficial role as his defender.
To sum up, I will always think that those who hate Raoul are twittering teenage fangirls who have not given a second thought to the plot and assume that he is the villain. If you've taken about 300+ looks into The Phantom of the Opera as I have, Raoul is seen as but an innocent bystander, taking things in stride as they come to him. And he is certainly not to be seen as a criminal who stole Christine away when it is she who refused to love Erik, and the Phantom himself who released her upon realizing this fact.
Thank you. It's been a pleasure debating.
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^^
I know. Christine would never pick Erik in a million years. She stayed with him out of pity, and that is it. She wouldn't love him just necause she was so scare dof him.
My def came from my giant Websters Dictionary. If ur def is correct, which i think it is, then Erik is a Fop. So is Batman, and other very kept up men. I agree that the use of 'Fop' for Raoul is overused. Get another word. Better yet, don't use any word and see HIS POV!
Yes... most fan girls are on Erik's side. in 2004 movie, Gerry was in it. 'SO HAWT!' no... i don't think so. Yes, he is handsome... but c'mon! see beyond the looks and see how bad he is. POTO is cool, but if he was ugly, like the original book's version, then who would you pick? The normal one, yes! So girls don't care about the story line at all. At least, i do. I like the movies and the book for the story line. The passion and hate and batrayal... ah well. Can't stop it.
I like Raoul also because he is so helpless. He was swept up into all of this. It wasn't his fault that a sociopathic phantom fell in love with his woman.
I know. I hate fan girls. The Twilight ones too. THE MOVIE SUKED! ROBERT IS NOT HOT! Ah well... I have looked into it many times, not 300+... but i am only in sixth grade.
This is my opinoin on the whole phantom is evil thing: Phantom isn't! He was scared. Think of it. When did u first ask some1 out? That you rly love? I fell flat on my face... and so did Erik. He was so scared that some1 would take his first love, that he was willing to kill to keep her in his grasp.
I think that Phantom letting her go was good. She would never love him as much as she would love Raoul. Oh well. Poor Phantom is what i ahve to say. Basically sums that up. Poor Raoul too. Most of all, for all the drama, poor Christine!
Oh ur welcome! I don't know how to insert a smiley... so ...
:Insert handshake:
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No, Christine didn't want to stay with him out of pity. Living forever in the darkness with him is a great fear of hers, and she would never accept it unless under dire circumstances. She agreed to be with him only to save Raoul's life. Because people want her with Erik so badly, many often overlook the fact that she and Raoul truly are in love. She would do anything to save him, and vice versa.
Sadly, no, even when Erik carries his true disfiguration, Raoul is still not a preferred choice from the audience. Even in the previous versions, he is still not a fan favorite, regardless of him, yes, being the more attractive at the time. Yes, people flock to the Phantom because he is attractive when played by Gerard Butler, but the reverse is not true simply because Raoul, too, is good looking. His appearance holds no sway over people. And disliking Raoul because he is handsome, and you believe for some reason that people would line up to be with him, is simply wrong. When it comes down to it, people actually do look for more in a character than simply their looks. I still know many, many people who love Erik even in his original portrayal, who love him for who he is and not what he looks like. Give credit to the human race where due.
And it's not right to accuse people of having no depth, that they don't care about the plot, simply because they would pick Erik over Raoul based on how he looks in the 2004 movie, because they think that Gerard is attractive. It's unfair to think of them as just mindless people going around looking for a movie with a hot guy. I'm sure that they watched and fell in love with the story just as you did, just as I did. Don't assume on and insult a person's character without thinking of them as a person.
Sure the storyline of Phantom of the Opera is good, but you can't overlook the characters. Without them, there would be no plot. It's important to acknowledge them as much as the events within the story. And respecting all versions of them is a part of that. Yes, they picked a handsome actor to play the Phantom, but only so that people would think more on his character, attempt to see his side of it.
Also, Raoul is innocent, sweet, and charming, but not helpless. He possesses a keen mind and useful skills. In the 2004 movie, he even bested Erik in a sword fight.
No, Erik is not evil. I... never said that he was, actually. Trust me, I have looked into his perspective many times. I have seen and watched and read the things that he endured throughout his life. I'm fully aware of his feelings for Christine: the reluctance, the wanting, the utter depression and rage of seeing her with another. Yes, I don't really need this explained to me. I know he is not evil, simply determined in his goal. The Phantom of the Opera has no true villain. That is one of many things that makes it so unique.
Actually, I will never pity Christine. In fact, I despise her. Though she is the required catalyst for the story, her character couldn't be more bland. No matter what version of the story, she never has much depth, and it is a let down in such a riveting storyline.
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She has more depth in the original novel than in the ALW version. Also, the things she does that are "bold" do not look like much to today's women because we are so much more liberated than the Victorians were. Christine invites Raoul to Perros. That's unheard of for a virtuous girl to do. She remains with Erik for two weeks and does NOT spend it all crying in fear. She treats him like he's normal, even if to convince him to let her go. Once freed, does she leave the Opera forever? No! She returns to Erik repeatedly like a friend. She believes she can handle the situation. He gets obsessed. It gets out of the control. But it was bold of her to try. When he first captures her, she is prepared to kill herself if he "stops behaving like a gentleman." She'll DIE to remain virtuous. She agrees to marry Erik and remain his forever as a living bride if he will free Raoul--the ultimate act of love: self sacrifice. Honestly, she's quite a character, if you consider the book and the time period.
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I think that this is turning into a debate that neither of us will win. This will go on forever if I keep it going. So... I will keep this response short and squish it all together.
It all depends on what you think is handsome. Many think that chiseled and manly is handsome, while many think that a little more normal is better. Look at Twilight. Edward and Jacob, hence the teams.
I am in 6th grade. The people that I am with go around and see noting but looks. I probably shouldn't have said that no one does, because there are decent people at my school, but a majority of them don't. Their world is gossip and boys. So, they natuarally take Erik's side because he is more attractive.
Ah, helpless was just a 'cant-think-of-a-word' word. I probably should have used something like 'misunderstood'. But, I agree with you that he is in fact strong.
I don't know how much you know. I don't know hoe experienced you are, so I merely explained in case you needed refrence. Sorry... I like POTO the movie because it is simply so unique. There ISN'T a villian... there ISN'T some stupid plot. The plot is wonderful, mysterious and completely riviting.
Ohhhhh... I don't like her either. I don't like her because she is, like you said, bland. There needs to be something wrong with her inside. She was too... 2 dimensional. I don't know, but there could have been some better options with her.
So, as I always end my debates unless the other debaters continue (which u can, I'll respond and enjoy it), I may disagree with some of your points, but I do not feel as if I should debate the matter.
P.S- I have never debated before, so if some things are wrong, then that is my lack in inexperience typing.
P.S.S- This debating thing is REALLY fun! I like expressing my ideas and comparing them to yours... ^^ yay debates!
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Actually, I probably started winning when I continued to use facts but you used personal experiences and opinions. Things that should always be kept out of a debate.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's a popular saying for a reason. However, you cannot condemn people because their opinions and way of thinking is different than yours. Not to mention that unless they're your friend or in direct contact with you, their opinion shouldn't matter anyway.
I'd also rather not think on Twilight as it does not deserve my time. Awful plot and awful characters.
Also, try not to sound like you're using age as a crutch, and try to remember that there is a world outside of your school.
Basically, I tire of this. I respect that you have your own opinions. You have yours and I have mine to believe in and facts to reflect on.
Good day.
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I agree fully. Like I said, I have never done this before. I don't know what does into a debate, or what does not.
I know. Did I condem you for your opinoins? I didn't mean to if I did... *sad face*. You have a point with the materialiaztion thing. I respect you, but I won't say that your opinoin is good or bad. Merely because there are different minds. I really don't like Twilight either.
Oh... okay. I know there is a world outside of school. I just haven't seen it yet. ^^
As do I. Can I ask you one question if it does not bother you? How old are you? You sound more experienced than me. Just wondering.
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I am twenty. However, I've had the same opinions on life and The Phantom of the Opera for quite a few years.
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Ah. So that explains that.
Hm. A Phantom Phan for a while, eh? I only discovered it recently.
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I love it, and I totally agree with you in case of Raoul. Personally I would choose Eric, I suppose, but I'm that type of darkness-loving girl, and I think Christine, with her need of sunny mornings and happy, cheerful place on earth, just didn't fit Eric too much. And he was just, like, obsessed with her, and, well, he only wanted a big, passionate hug. 
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OMG!! Sooooooooooooo cute!!! I absolutely love POTO and I was so happy last week I actually got to see it on stage in london *faints* It was amazing. These are just so adorable, I love the chibi Phantom XD I'm trying to get a phantom and Christine picture done just now but Christine is being so stubborn ><
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