HOME | DD
twilite-sparkleplz — [Draft] Begins
#mylittlepony #equestriagirls #sunsetshimmer #blueprint
Published: 2015-02-22 22:45:45 +0000 UTC; Views: 23059; Favourites: 689; Downloads: 306
Redirect to original
Description
Origins..----
So you see, it's not "Sunset": it's Sundown.. and rise, up!
puffh.. hahaha..! What am I talking about..?
anyway.. new season is coming up..
why am I not as excited as I was two years ago..?
Related content
Comments: 263
Is this like the relationship between pony-visiting-Canterlot High Twilight versus human, scientist Twilight? Sunset Shimmer from Equestria and Sunset Shimmer from 'Earth'? Or is it just a hypothetical meeting between past and present Sunsets? I'm so curious how (and if) this ties into your head-canon! I must know!
Either way, pretty cool!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Heheh.. well, I've seen a lot of drawing about "unexpected meeting" about two persons from the two worlds..
but in this case, both Sunset Shimmer and Sunny S. Shimmer know each other..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
ugh... reveal to me to your mysterious headcanon @_@ I want to know it.
it can't be future and past sunset can it? because the crusaders are still kids and fluttershy looks more or less 'KuroSunny'(black wearing sunset shimmer) size/age. wait, is kurosunny sunset shimmers human counterpart?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Eheheh.. I can't..
I mean, I could.. but it wouldn't be as interesting if I just flooded you with words about what it is in my head, would it?
Anyway, KuroSunny.. heheh.. that's interesting..
yeah, about her.. well, I cannot tell you anything yet..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That wouldn't bother me, my curiousity is too strong! I'd read all of it! xD
your sunny, flutters, crusaders are so mysterious but cool. really want to know what the deal is with them lol. yay KuroSunny xD or SunKuro lol
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hum.. well, I do have plan to create something like "Sunny S. Shimmer: Revelations".. in which I'll explain everything I have in mind..
but.. uhn.. maybe later~..!
With Flutters, I think I didn't give her much changes..
And about The Trio.. well, Scoot is the boke, Sweetie is the tsukkomi.. and Bloom, she's a silent warrior who gets things done without saying much, like her brother..!
And yes, KuroSunny..! SunKuro doesn't sound as good.. I think, heheh..
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
aww that's awesome! ^^ I'd love to see that story, feel like I've been waiting for it forever! xD
wow that's an interesting dynamic between those three. that's a neat idea though, applebloom becoming a taciturn buttkicker of the group. 
hehehe yea you're right... sunkuro sounds like a middle age man name
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Heheh.. when I really do reveal it, try not to turn your curiosity into regret..! Because I can assure you it's boring..!
I mean, I could send a note to you if you really curious about it.. but again, it's very boring..!
Anyway, yes.. three children are neither enough nor too much: they're perfect..!
And I think I actually messed it up by making Fluttershy a vampire..! eheh.. hehe.. he.....
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
ooo that'd be awesome, I'd love to hear it. hehe I really want to hear your story ^^
oh man... the crusaders kinda sound like the crystal gems from steven universe lol. bloom as the quiet strong one, sweetie as the strait one and scoots as the goofy one lol.
NO WAY! your human vampire fluttershy is the best! xD
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Very well then, but you've been warned: Try not to turn your curiosity into regret because this going to be very boring..! Mwahaha..!
Anyway, I hope I didn't ruin anything by my "changes"..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
hehe aww that's no way to think. wasted time having fun isn't time wasted ^^
oh come on! xD changes are half the fun, if people wanted to see these characters unchanged that's what the show is for! xD
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hahahaha.. oh where have I heard that before..? But yes! A time you enjoy wasting is not a wasted time..!
And changes.. well.. yeah.. I hope so..!
Anyway, I have sent you the revelation, one small but important part..
but again, I hope it won't turn your curiosity into regret..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Totally no regrets!
Worth it!
yahoo! xD
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
So that blueprint we see here wasn't from the human analogs of the Cutie Mark Crusaders, but was from Equestria's Sunset Shimmer?
Very intriguing! Now I'm even more curious where your drafts will lead us.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well, it has not been explained so far.. but, yes, Sunset Shimmer is the one giving it to her..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
What the doge??
Come on.. there is an obvious reason why that dimension called "Mirror World"..! Ahahaha..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah I know just me being a silly billy. X3
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
As usual, huh..?
I miss tripping up subject.. but you didn't give me a chance to..!
puffhh no, no.. iJoke..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Uh.....I don't get it, is the one with the glasses an older Sunset or something? I'm a little lost
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That's the Human Sunset I presume (the one originally from the human world of EQG)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If that's the case why is she so much taller? Shouldn't they be the same height.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
"nightmaremaster000 Feb 22, 2015
If that's the case why is she so much taller? Shouldn't they be the same height. "
Sunset was deaged when she went through the mirror, she's actually quite a lot older.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I cannot tell you about that yet, but I can tell you this much:
Sunset Shimmer became Celestia's personal student as a full-grown mare.. keep this in mind, it's very important..
while Twilight Sparkle became one when she was a filly, and then lived in the castle until she grew up before then sent to Ponyville.. yet she never heard anything about Sunset Shimmer and the "incident", before finally told about it by Celestia after she became a princess.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well less 'full-grown mare' and more like 15 (since that or 16 was roughly how young Sunset was at her first fall formal), but your pretty much on the nose with everything else. She left Celestia when she was 15 and she knew Celestia for quite some time.
(In fact instead of just being a close, super supportive teacher to Twilight, a little too supportive at times ex. Crystal Empire, Celestia's relationship with Sunset was closer to mother and daughter because Celestia fully admitted she got closer to Sunset then anyone else since Luna, and that never again would she allow herself to get emotionally attached.)
If Sunset has an alternate, she would be about 25, cause Sunset is legally 25 in Equestria even though she's only 18 or so.
Its all very Narnia-esque, where a year on one side could mean 100 year on the other. In this case, Sunset was in the human world for 2.5 years and, on the other side, for Twilight 10 years had passed. Dimensions, especially magical dimensions, often have different temporal alignment.
As for height, that's a little tricky. If Sunset became a Seraph Alicorn like Celestia or Luna instead of becoming a demon, which was her intent(she had no intention of becoming a demon or a lesser alicorn like Twilight or Cadence) her default height would be around (points up) this human Sunset's height. If Sunset's destiny is to eventually succeed Celestia(hence her cutie mark), and Sunset and Human Sunset still have a shared destiny of sorts, then Human Sunset would grow up to be really tall.
Did I get everything correct? Please tell me if I missed something.
...
Also, This is all on the supposition on the headcanon that there IS a human Sunset. Its not a bad headcanon, but a lot of evidence seems to lead to the possibility that she doesn't because she has become BOTH world's Sunset's.
For example, her cutie mark represents balance.
The fact her magic was used to forge the two worlds together.
The fact she identifies as both unicorn and human.
In some cases, Sunset would be known as a 'fulcrum' or an 'avatar' of the two worlds. Sunset just 'happened' to become the 7th element at the same age as the others, even though normally that would be impossible, fate said otherwise, despite being a teenager when Twilight was just a child. Unlike Sunset, we just found out there is another relevant Twilight Sparkle, Human Scientist Twilight, who could potentially become the element of magic just as Twilight did when she and the others got hit with RD's Sonic Rainboom. Sunset is the only one without an alternate, and I doubt they'd be the same age since they lived in the same world for 2.5 years.
...
I personally like either Scenario...whether Sunset has an older, wise alternate on this side, or Sunset is basically 'The One'...(starring Jet Lee XD)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah, I said I can't say about it because I still have few questions myself..
I do think that maybe they have what you said a different temporal alignment. But it just raises more questions..!
I mean, Starswirl sent (read: banished) the Sirens there, according to AJ, "ages ago", long before Sunset Shimmer "forge two worlds together", so I wonder how was the Mirror World back then..?
Was Canterlot High already there? Were the Principal and the Vice also there? Were Scientist Twilight there? Do the Sirens also have human counterparts? Or is the Mirror just mirrors everything whenever it activates, which is every 30 moons? This can't be..
So I guess I'll just use my provisional estimates or "headcanon", and wait until they (MLP:FiM team, that is) reveals more..
Anyway, I don't know if Sunset's cutiemark represent balance, or just a symbol of the shimmering sun setting..
That's why from there I use "Come Sunset it won't matter.. well, not Sunset: Sun-Down and rise; Up..! Sunrise sets flash of green when the up is down..!"
Fwhahahaha..! Get it? Because the green flash signals when a soul comes back to this world from another dimension..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"I mean, Starswirl sent (read: banished) the Sirens there, according to AJ, "ages ago", long before Sunset Shimmer "forge two worlds together", so I wonder how was the Mirror World back then..? Was Canterlot High already there? Were the Principal and the Vice also there? Were Scientist Twilight there? Do the Sirens also have human counterparts? Or is the Mirror just mirrors everything whenever it activates, which is every 30 moons?"
Whoa, that's a whole lot of questions at once. Let me try to see if I can't shed some light on it with my interpretations.
"I mean, Starswirl sent (read: banished) the Sirens there, according to AJ, "ages ago", long before Sunset Shimmer "forge two worlds together", so I wonder how was the Mirror World back then..? Was Canterlot High already there?"
Well, Starswirled must of banished them to the human world when the portal was still open only every 30 moons(2.5 years). However, what state the world was in is a good question. What if it wasn't always 4 years = 1 years? What if it fluctuates? After all, the time difference slowed down by the time Sunset became good.
We know they are most certainly not teenagers in terms of age, but its really hard to imagine them being 1000 years old isn't it? For all we know, Adagio and the others could of entered the human world in the 70s when they were banished 1000 years ago. (looks at Adagio's clothes) Its not improbable.
As for Canterlot High, it we were to assume Canterlot High was created at the same synchronized age as Canterlot, which was almost 1000 years ago by the Unicorns, then maybe the Sirens really haven't been in the other world for that long. Of course, Starswirled banished them with a spell, not just sent them through the mirror, so they probably have no way of getting back, or at least don't know how.
"Were Scientist Twilight there?"
If we remove the time desynchronization, then Scientist Twilight's life would be no different then the other Human 5. Like the others, she's in her late teens. No twist for her. Most likely a genius who skipped several grades and is now a grad student.
"Were the Principal and the Vice also there? Do the Sirens also have human counterparts? Or is the Mirror just mirrors everything whenever it activates, which is every 30 moons?"
Now THAT'S a loaded question. Let's recall that the movie went out of its way to demonstrate how different Human Celestia was personality-wise compared to Pony Celestia. Luna too, and Spike obviously. What do they have in common? They are all immortals or long-lived; if Spike embraced greed he'd probably grow so big he'd live for over 1000 years. But in the other side, he's a dog.
I don't think that the mirror creates or affects the human world directly, its simply a gateway. However, dimensions DO have a tendency to 'reflect' each other, especially in terms of powerful figures in the magical world. While the Human 6 share the same powerful souls the Mane 6 have, the Principles do not. They were easily influenced by the Sirens. Those two, and Spike, and what you would call 'symbolic counterparts'.
As for the Sirens, that's trickier. My guess is that they have no counterparts at all due to the fact they might have not been born in Equestria, but Ancient Greece. Afterall, they weren't just part of a species called sirens, they were THE Sirens. They weren't born human or the equivalent, and they weren't born in any relative era. I sincerely doubt they have counterparts.
Like Human Twilight is starting to suspect, the School and the city and area around it are pretty much ground zero to the magical realm of Equestria.
"Anyway, I don't know if Sunset's cutiemark represent balance, or just a symbol of the shimmering sun setting
That's why from there I use "Come Sunset it won't matter.. well, not Sunset: Sun-Down and rise; Up..! Sunrise sets flash of green when the up is down..!"
Fwhahahaha..! Get it? Because the green flash signals when a soul comes back to this world from another dimension..!"
Ah, that's from Pirates of the Caribbean isn't it? XD
Your interpretation is understandable, especially when we didn't know Sunset's fate as a redeemed hero when you created your headcanon. In fact, I never thought much of her cutie mark until Rainbow Rocks revealed some of her significance.
But if you reinterpret it with what we know now, take a look her cutie mark more closely, its pretty obvious why they chose Sunset's cutie mark design to be that way. If her cutie mark was actually supposed to represent a sunset, it would have a part-circle with red and the rest yellow. Instead they chose this design...
www.reikiheidi.co.uk/attachmen…
fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/201…
Pony and human, good and evil, Equestria and the human world.... her very existence is an allegory for the balance between two opposites. That's why Sunset has Celestia's cutie mark but with a yin-yang symbol. Celestia represents flawless purity, while Sunset represents the understanding and experience of good and evil.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Haha.. I intentionally put all those questions together, but yes! It's all about the time difference between Equestria and Mirror World which is still a mystery, and thus my questions are yet to be aswered..
To put it simple, it's about the period of time, from the point of where the Sirens get to the Mirror World, to the point of where Princess Twilight finally gets there.
The clues are when Princess Twilight arrived to the Mirror World, everything seems totally similar to Equestria: the Canterlot High, the people.. and this includes the Principal and the Vice, the Humane 5, even herself that is the Scientist Twilight.
In Equestria, Starswirl's era, obviously Twilight Sparkle and the Mane 5 and even Spike haven't been born yet, but both Princess Celestia and Princess Luna were there.. and there is a long period of time between Starswirl The Bearded and Princess Twilight Sparkle.
So yes, my main questions are: By the time the Sirens arrived to the Mirror World, how was the world back then..? Was Canterlot High already there, along with the Principal and the Vice? If the Principal and the Vice were there, were Scientist Twilight and the other Humane 5 also there?
If the Principal and the Vice are immortals and Scientist Twilight and the Humane 5 haven't been born yet, then this leads to the ultimate question: how long have the Sirens been in the Mirror World until Princess Twilight finally arrive?
And, you said the Sirens aren't mirrored because they're from the Ancient Greece and weren't born in Equestria. Then what of Celestia and Luna? Alicorns, Unicorns, Pegasi, and even Gryphon are also from Ancient Greece.
But if we were to put them in the Myth Animals section and exclude them from not being mirrored, then Sunset Shimmer -and even Starswirl himself- were too born in Equestria, therefore must have been mirrored and thus have Mirror World counterparts.
So much unanswered questions, so I'll leave it to the MLP team and wait for canon explanations. Otherwise -borrowing Cinema Sins' term- it's all just "Deus Ex-Machina"; something that makes no sense but is added so that the story can go.. hahahaha..!
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Starswirl did have a counterpart in the human world, Merlin was his name.
As for the Sirens now.
If they had counterparts those counterparts would be long dead from old age due to not being immortal like they are you know.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
So, how about Celestia and Luna, then?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
"And, you said the Sirens aren't mirrored because they're from the Ancient Greece and weren't born in Equestria. Alicorns, Unicorns, Pegasi, and even Gryphon are also from Ancient Greece."
I think your missing the point. I already answered that question. Reread what I said before.
Cronomatt: "Afterall, they weren't just part of a species called sirens, they were THE Sirens. They weren't born human or the equivalent"
See? I already answered that. All of them are ancestors and species. But Twilight catagorized them as THE sirens. 'The'. As in, unlike every human-equivalent mortal in Equestria, they are the ACTUAL creatures of myth, not just descendents of the creatures.
Think of it, the world of Equestria is a haven for all the ancestors of magical creatures who now have human souls. Human souls that exist on both sides.
"-and even Starswirl himself-"
Of course he had an alternate, his name was Merlin....That was kind of obvious.
"then Sunset Shimmer"
She's the one person who doesn't need an alternate. She's a fulcrum. If she had an alternate, there is no reason why her magic would connect the worlds. Why would her magic connect the worlds if she had an alternate?
Rainbow Rocks is actually making things simpler to understand, but your not letting it.
"Then what of Celestia and Luna?"
Oh them? Well they're what you'd call a horse of a different color....www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppA…
Joking XD...(a very ironic joke at that.)
But seriously, unlike they others, they only exist NOW because Celestia and Luna were supposed to exist "at the time when the two dimensions align". As in now.
Unlike the Mane 6, they definitely don't share the same souls of Celestia and Luna. They only have alternates because Celestia and Luna made such a big impact on the Equestrian universe.
Besides, according to Sunset's discovery, as revealed by her plot....Princess Celestia and Princess Luna aren't even Equestrians! They weren't born horses!
Sunset was trying to recreate a method to make herself a godly alicorn. Emphasis on 'recreate'. Sunset read the alicorn method out of a forbidden history textbook. What is the reverse of what Sunset was doing? Sunset traveled to human world, stayed their for 30 months doing bad deeds, and came into contact with an element of harmony and accidentally a demon. What exactly do you think would happen, or did happen, when 2 young girls traveled to Equestria, did heroic deeds for 30 months, then came into contact with the elements of harmony? Hell ask Tirek, I bet he knows. I'm pretty sure he was beaten by them.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I told you I put those questions in order, but you keep tearing them apart. I am aware that they are neither Equestrian nor they were born horses, that is why I asked "Then what of Celestia and Luna?" question, and your answer is:
"They only exist NOW because Celestia and Luna were supposed to exist "at the time when the two dimensions align". As in now.
Unlike the Mane 6, they definitely don't share the same souls of Celestia and Luna. They only have alternates because Celestia and Luna made such a big impact on the Equestrian universe."
According to that, this means back then when the Sirens arrived the Principal and the Vice didn't exist yet, and that also means they are not immortals since they do not share the same soul. And let's just say the same case cannot also be applied to the Sirens. And that also means the two worlds hasn't aligned yet. The question left is the time difference.
**
And about the Mirror portal, in EG Princess Luna said "This is no ordinary mirror: it is a gateway to another world, a gateway that open once every 30 moons."
This is from MLP wikia: "The mirror acts as a gateway to the human world that, according to Princess Luna, opens once every thirty moons. Once situated in Canterlot, it was relocated to the Crystal Empire when Princess Cadance took over. When the gateway opens, it remains open for a span of three days; on the third day, when the moon reaches its peak in the night sky, the gateway closes, not to open again for another thirty moons."
So my interpretation is that the two worlds have always been connected by the Mirror, even long before Sunset used it to go to the other world.
And In EG:RR, it's shown Sunset has this journal book that connects to the other book, and it is also shown that the magic book has some way to reach the other book in Equestria even from the Human World, then Twilight used the other book to power the portal. This means there could be a way to force-open the portal, but the portal itself always connecting the two worlds.
So I guess everything really is Deus Ex-Machina; Twilight arrived exactly "at the time when the two dimensions align" is too much of a coincidence. So I'd still rather wait for MLP team to make official explanations.
Once I had a question about Celestia banishing Luna, and Ms. Faust (fyre-flye ) made a clear answer.
So unless you have canon source of your interpretation (use the clips from the show or ask the MLP team if you have to), it'll just be a headcanon, like mine.
Oh, and I never use IDW as reference, because as stated by Jim Miller, that the comics and the show will remain separate.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I was referring to the actual princesses, not the principles. Read Sunset's backstory comic, which are all approved by Meghan the head writer, not Jim Miller or the other writers. She has always stated that the IDW comics, and no other material, are semi-canon to the narrative of Equestria, even if the stories in the comics don't directly effect the show.
Afterall, Jim Miller was incorrect. While the show is separate from the comics, the comics are NOT separate from the show, the events in the show often effect the comics. Jim Miller, ironically, has absolutely zero inside knowledge or involvement in the canon of the show relative to the comics and vice-versa, that's the head writer's job, Meghan.
Only Meghan and partially Faust know the true intentions of the full canon, show and comic.(Since Faust knows all the early concepts never written into S1, even though she had no involvement in later seasons) Heck, even HASBRO are stating that the new series of IDW comics, Fiendship, is going to be semi-canon to the show. At that practically never happens, mostly because they know most of the stuff they touch without DHX is never canon.
"According to that, this means back then when the Sirens arrived the Principal and the Vice didn't exist yet"
Not necessarily. Time dilation is screwy combined with fate is screwy. Even if the Sirens were banished to Earth before Celestia and Luna, they might have been sent to a time on Earth when Principals Celestia and Luna were already born on Earth.
The only evidence we have of when they were sent to is Adagio's clothes, which are hardly Dark Ages, but not exactly modern either. If the 4 years=1 years was set in stone before EG1, they were likely sent back to 1750. :/
"and that also means they are not immortals since they do not share the same soul."
Correct. The movies actively made sure we knew that human Celestia and Luna were VERY different, susceptible to mind control, and not same-soul alternates, but just reflections of Equestia. They are of no importance..whatsoever. Write off their existence of merely the school and area being so close to the portal. It IS Canterlot high afterall.
" And let's just say the same case cannot also be applied to the Sirens. And that also means the two worlds hasn't aligned yet. The question left is the time difference."
"So my interpretation is that the two worlds have always been connected by the Mirror, even long before Sunset used it to go to the other world."
Of course the two worlds have always been connected by the mirror, that goes without stating. The question is if the Sirens were born when Equestria didn't exist yet, when magical creatures still lived on earth. If that is the case, and the movie hinted that the Earth sirens are the same as the MLP sirens, then they would have no alternate because they pre-date the separation. Celestia and Luna, on the other hand, lived
You misunderstood what I meant. The worlds can still "reflect" each other without their time aligning. After all, Human Celestia and Human Luna were still born in a time where 4 years in Equestria = 1 year on earth.
"Twilight arrived exactly "at the time when the two dimensions align" is too much of a coincidence."
I agree. But during that time, Sunset got blasted with the Harmony Blaster. I doubt her magic could have merged the dimensions if used before. I believe in the most logical conclusion...that the girl who connected the dimensions was also responsible for the time becoming parallel when she 'had her eyes opened'.
Besides, she just happens to now be as old as the other elements now when she herself became an element, even though she was born ~8 years earlier. Magical fate often trumps coincidence. Thankfully, if we're talking about the one responsible for connecting the dimensions, then her awakening makes perfect sense for overly complicated Narnian time dilation to stop.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And so was I.
So, there is no canon explanation of when the Sirens actually arrived to the "Earth".
And from our discussion it has been concluded that the Sirens could have been sent to any of Earth's time.
Maybe long before Sunset finally got there, or a bit earlier, or about the same time. The only clue is when Sunset gets blasted by the Humane 6 with "Friendship Beam"
they witness it from a cafe nearby, wearing modern clothings. We can't use Sirens' case as a point of time, so I'll just leave it to the staff.
Anyway, I know that the show affects the comic, but rarely, if not at all otherwise. It's always the show first, then the comic later, thus I only refer to the show.
But I have read The Fall of Sunset Shimmer comic. It was obviously only about Sunset's back story,
and yet it didn't show anything about Sunset affecting the connection between two worlds like you said, let alone forged them.
There is no evidence of how the "Earth" before Sunset, and neither EG nor EG:RR show anything about it too.
If there actually is a canon information that explains about the timeline and the "Earth" before Sunset, then by all means inform me..!
But until then, I'm just going to use my headcanon, or my "Fate" Ex-Machina (since we have replaced word "coincidence" with "fate").
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"And so was I."
So you are one of the few fans that the implications of doing the reverse of what evil Sunset was trying to implied to Celestia and Luna? Wow, those are rare. (mostly because we were told EGs was non-canon at first, then told otherwise months later)
"they witness it from a cafe nearby, wearing modern clothings."
They were wearing hoodies so they could steal energy without drawing attention.
I agree that Adagio's 70s clothers not much to work with when determining how long they were in the human world, they obviously aren't teenagers anymore then Princess Celestia is in her 30s.
They struck me as an evil Charlie's Angels vibe with the 70s clothes and trio of girls.
"yet it didn't show anything about Sunset affecting the connection between two worlds like you said"
I never said it did. That was established in Rainbow Rocks, when Twilight used her magic to form a more permanent bridge between worlds.
"It's always the show first, then the comic later, thus I only refer to the show."
That's not a very good reason at all. At least when discussing canon backstory material, one should always go to all the stuff approved by the main writer. Heck, sometimes even the episodes themselves have less effect on the later episodes, like the retcon of Starswirl not understanding friendship as stated in MMC, which was retconned in the comics first....THEN the show in Twilight's Kingdom.
"There is no evidence of how the "Earth" before Sunset, and neither EG nor EG:RR show anything about it too."
Wait, are you trying to say that their Earth without exist without Equestria's mirror? :/
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
This is why I told you not to tear down my sentences because they are all part of a paragraph, but you keep doing it.
I'm going to make it very very very simple:
First paragraph, yes, we can't use the Sirens' clothing to determine how long they have been on Earth.
Second paragraph, what I'm saying is neither the comic nor the movie show how was Earth before Sunset arrived there.
Because earlier you said Sunset's magic affected the two worlds, like the time becoming aligned. Thus I said no evidence for any of that.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I don't recall ever saying that Sunset's world affected the dimensions. I never said that. What I DID say that it was possible Sunset's magic effected the CONNECTION between the two worlds.
You once pointed out that unlike the last 2.5 years for Sunset, (after Sunset got hit by the elements of harmony, as I added), the time flow between the two worlds was the same.
It most definitely is a big coincidence from an initial perspective, but if Sunset was supposed to become a 7th element roughly the exact same age as the other elements, then Sunset would have to age at the same rate for both ponies and humans.
Sunset was resistant to the Sirens even before she awakened as an element while singing, which means that after she was reformed, she had the potential to become a wielder of the element of harmony. Besides, if time was not sycronized before Twilight used Sunset's magic to merge the dimensions, the time lag between dimensions would get really weird for casual travel.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah I also meant the connection, but yes, I'm using the idea that there is no time difference between two worlds, so Sunset is older even though she doesn't look like it. Sunset presumably used her magic, but only to force-open the portal, so nothing's changed.
So yes, my headcanon is there is no time difference, and the mirror's already reflected Sunset, but somehow Human Sunset is nowhere near Canterlot High (like Human Twilight who has no relations to the Humane 5 even when they're younger).
There is already a discussion about pony age and appearance before, but still unclear. So again, I'd rather wait from the officials about it. Until then, I'm using my headcanon.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I understand your using your headcanon, and I don't have a problem with that, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.
Two of your statements you'll have to clarify, because they don't make any sense headcanon or otherwise to me.
"but only to force-open the portal, so nothing's changed."
Sunset's magic naturally breached the dimensions when she wrote in the book. It was Twilight who used Sunset's magic to force a permanent dimension with Sunset's magic.
("like Human Twilight who has no relations to the Humane 5 even when they're younger"
What would be the point of Human Twilight being older? I understand your statement, but in terms of story narrative, there is no reason for Human Twilight to be a different age at all. Human Twilight has no connection to the other 5 because more then a year ago, the same held true for Pony Twilight.
...the only reason I could see for Human Twilight being older was if she was the villain in the next film. Otherwise it would be rather nonsensical, since there would be no way to explain it)
"and the mirror's already reflected Sunset"
You've COMPLETELY lost me on this statement. The mirror is no different then the wardrobe in the Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, the only difference being its a semi-reliable portal. The mirror cannot make another exist on the other side. If that was true, then in the past 1000 years, there's been a constant stream of Celestia's and Luna's since 1000 years ago. Whenever one Celestia and Luna die, another take its place.
And even if it could do just that(like for Human Luna, Human Celestia, and Dog Spike) it wouldn't effect an anomaly like Sunset, who was fated to become just as old as the 8 year old Twilight Sparkle and the ~8-9 year old RD, AJ, Fluttershy, Rarity and Pinkie Pie when she was roughly 15 in Equestia, effectively making her belong to both worlds.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Naah, from what I see you actually do have problem with my headcanon, which is Sunset has human counterpart. This is what you've been denying with your theory and interpretations, like by saying that Sunset is chosen by Fate.
----
"but only to force-open the portal, so nothing's changed."
I was talking about the very first time Sunset use the Mirror; if the Mirror portal wasn't actually open and she used her magic to force-open it; in the TFoSS comic, not EG:RR.
----
Never have I said Human Twilight is older.
What I was saying is that Human Twilight doesn't have any relations to the Humane 5. So my thought is that Human Sunset does too have no relations to anyone in Canterlot High and is nowhere near.
----
So what if there's been a constant stream of Celestia's and Luna's since 1000 years ago? (Huh.. actually I like that concept, like The Sage in Assassin's Creed universe.. yeah, I think I'm going to use it)
Heck, even if I'm making up my own universe, then so what?
But like I said: I'm going to wait from the staff. You can apply the Narnia concept to the Mirror on your own and your concept of "Sunset's Fate" -your own theory and interpretations- and expect (if not force) everyone to follow it,
but I still prefer to wait from the staff, or if somehow you become one of the writers who write everypony's fate.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Jeez, don't be so defensive. I'm just simply trying to understand it. If you have sufficient reason to believe Sunset has a human alternate, you could at least explain your reasoning. The only issue I have with your headcanon is that you aren't giving me your reasoning behind the whole 'mirror reflecting' thing. Even if its different from mine, I would be satisfied, but I would like your overall explanation. Like...did the human world not exist before the mirror existed? Did the mirror always exist? Give me some context for me to grasp your headcanon, that's all I ask.
" like by saying that Sunset is chosen by Fate."
Well, the Mane 6 on both sides being chosen by the elements of harmony is hardly NOT fate. I can't say everything that's happened to them has been fate, fate completely unaltered by anyone, but them being elements on both sides is hardly a coincidence.
The fact that Sunset was resisting the Siren's spell even before she grew pony ears while singing suggests something. (shrug)
"I was talking about the very first time Sunset use the Mirror; if the Mirror portal wasn't actually open and she used her magic to force-open it"
In both the movies and the DHX approved comics, they have always stated that Sunset used the portal normally during its 30 moon cycle, and had no method otherwise. If she had another method of opening it, they would of mentioned it. When Sunset wrote in her diary and it actually worked, it was a new discovery...
Wow, I hope nopony accidentally stepped through the mirror 2.5 years ago, 5 years ago, or 7.5 years ago. The writers probably suggested the time-dilation to 'allow' Celestia's former student to be the same age as the others now, and the 30 moon cycle was created to explain Sunset coming back to steal the crown when 30 moons passed for HER....but if you think about it, any poor pony who stepped through the mirror during the 30 month mark of 2.5 years, 5, or 7.5 years ago would of been trapped in the Human World for a while since 30 months haven't passed on their side yet. That's not a problem now but jeeez.
"Never have I said Human Twilight is older."
Sorry about that, my mistake. When you said 'even when they're younger', I thought you meant that the Humane 5 were younger then Human Twilight. Cause the alternative didn't make sense....OUR Twilight didn't know any of the 5 until 1 year ago, so why should Human Twilight's life be any different. The only reason Human Twilight doesn't know the Human 5 yet is because the human world doesn't have an immortal Celestia guiding Twilight to them. "Go to Ponyville, make some friends." That never happened for Human Twilight, due to the difference in Celestia's.
"I'm going to wait from the staff."
I agree. My opinion isn't fact, but since most people noticed it fits, the wardrobe comparison with the mirror is the general consensus, so that's what I used to compare. If you have a different theory, I'm all ears, but you haven't explained it yet. Can you explain? You say the mirror 'reflected the other world and thus, there would be a human Sunset.' So...the mirror itself creates the human world? What about when Star-Swirled banished the Sirens into the human world? That could be before all that.
If the two worlds have a power of reflecting each other, it can't simply 'reset' the world every 30 moons, it would have to take in a certain amount of predestination fate to make sure each side has the same people at the right time...like the Mane 6. From Sunset's weird-time perspective, Human Twilight was actually born first, Twilight was ~8 when Human Twilight was ~15, even if she isn't aware of that yet.
But back to your theory, wouldn't your theory work on the opposite side as well? If there was not a trace, barely a trace of a Pony Sunset in Equestria for 2.5 years...wouldn't that mean in the Human World, after Sunset lived there for that long, there would be no human Sunset, or at least no similar Human Sunset, because the mirror reflects everything in Equestria BUT Suset? Their Sunset is gone afterall, in the human world of all places.
--------
....In fact, that part of your theory is starting to make a lot of sense! (although I personally think the mirror isn't the source of the two universes reflecting each other, but built into the concept of parallel universes)
I mean think about it, the two worlds seem to work odd for immortals or potential long lived creatures like large dragons. Even if Princess Celestia and Luna didn't come from the human world, they might have had alternates with the same soul but they would of eventually died...but due to the mirror, once a normal life span passed, the power you describe creates a legacy of Celestia's and Luna's, and although they don't have the same souls as the originals, their identities in both worlds are intact.
The two worlds remain reflected.
----------
Now let's think on this together....no more arguing, just brainstorming. Sunset and the Sirens show no evidence of human alternates, despite the fact pony Sunset was raised in Canterlot. At the very least, Human Sunset can't be living in the same city like Human Twilight if our Sunset has been living there for 30 months, Pinkie Pie recognized Twilight from her inner-city alternate in less then a day. Human Sunset could exist, but I don't think she's connected to the Elements directly. Sunset's in a unique position cause her magic did open the portal somehow in Rainbow Rocks....that much we know, we just don't know why or for what reason. If she does have powers, her powers would likely be like the Roxas to Sunset's Sora, sort of like the umbra to her powers.
Like, imagine a slightly older Human Sunset Shimmer where the rules of pony strength and magic not existing in the human world don't apply to her. Maybe not an element of harmony, but still uniquely powerful. If Pony Sunset is the bridge between the two worlds, Human Sunset is like a guardian with power to deal with out of control Equestrian magic that seeps into the human world, like curses or monsters.
At least stuff not more powerful then the elements of harmony. The fact that the Sirens had a modicum of magic on Earth even without the elements, suggests that maybe there is at least one being with magic capable of challenging them before pony Sunset brought the crown to Earth. Like if the Sirens didn't keep a low profile and decided to feed on a large population...would the world not provide someone to challenge them?
If I was to guess, I think living on the other side for 30 moons breaks the cycle, negating the need for an exact replica in terms of life and soul. Cause if the mirror works both ways for non-natives, and if the Sirens have been living in the human world for ages...wouldn't there be new alternates of the Sirens in Equestria? I think due to the fact they were magically banished, a one way ticket to the human world with no knowledge of how to get back for at LEAST 30 moons, they were thrown out of the reflection cycle completely. But Sunset, and perhaps Celestia and Luna, were never banished. Ergo, they may or may not have alternates, but if they do have alternates, they aren't same soul/life counterparts. (Following that logic, I don't think the crown would have done anything to the sirens, despite them being from Equestria. Sunset wanted to gain power by staying in the human world for 30 moons using the mirror willingly. I don't think the Sirens have the same qualifications.)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If I've been so defensive, obviously it's because you're the one who's been attacking me. You are not trying to understand, you are trying to sock your own theory to me. You've been holding on to your theory, like the Narnia-like concept of the mirror and Sunset is The One that bridges between two worlds in all your comments here. You never did directly ask me about my headcanon, you just used your own to explain about what you think has actually happened. Not until now.
Typical of someone who thinks they are the one with the knowledge, with the "truth", and everyone should follow them. This is what has always started a war in our world.
My headcanon is very, very, very simple:
Both worlds are parallel, no time difference, and Sunset Shimmer is nothing but another being in both worlds. But I like to think Equestria as the "reference" world. So the moment Equestria was created, so was the "Earth" world, and both worlds have always been connected. And the moment pony Sunset was born in Equestria, the Human Sunset was also born in "Earth" world, just like everypony else. (Keep in mind that I keep writing "Earth" because in my headcanon, that world is not our Earth.)
Every 30 moons something triggers the connection and opens a portal that bridges the two worlds. In my headcanon, before Crystal Mirror was invented, when the portal opened, it opened at a random place, causing a bit of an accident. So somepony smart and powerful then created the Crystal Mirror as a medium to make a fixed spot for the portal to open, and the mirror has been kept away from the public to prevent any unwanted accident.
We already know that Sunset used the mirror portal fair and square in the comic.
So what I think is, in EG:RR Sunset did not use her magic at all, she used her journal book that has connection of its own to the other journal book to contact Twilight. Then using the other journal book, Twilight triggered the connection between two worlds and thus opened the portal.
And about the School's Principals case, yeah like I said, I'm going to apply same case as reincarnation of Sage to them. So both Human Celestia and Luna are typically born with personalities and memories of their own, but they also possess the memories of previous Human Celestia and Luna, which manifest themselves as visions throughout all Human Celestia and Luna's earlier lives. And this wave will stop only if Princess Celestia and Luna die.
Same case of reincarnation applies to the counterpart of Sirens and other immortals in Equestria. Only without earlier lives' memories, yet they always end up with each other. And I think there is Human Discord too.
So yeah, all of the above is my headcanon, and it's very simple as that.
But again, I have strong suspicion that you will not accept this, because you have your own theory. And the crucial part is that you want me to follow it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Despite your violent attitude and your denial of all the times I've asked you to explain the meaning of your words...
...I think its an excellent headcanon, and I accept it.
Just because I have questions regarding your headcanon's practicality and validity doesn't mean I consider your headcanon any less important then my own. That's rubbish. Neither of us has any higher ground then the other. I simply wanted to understand your reasoning, cause my reasoning will never be perfect and I want to learn from others.
I DO admit that a few of my sentences during the overall discussion were too hasty in the assurance of my opinion. I'm really sorry for that. I should have chosen my words more carefully.
That being said, I don't think I deserved this bout of hate from you when my last comment was anything BUT close-minded.
"If I've been so defensive, obviously it's because you're the one who's been attacking me."
That is factually not true. While it IS often true, sometimes the defensive person is either 1) paranoid or 2) extremely protective of their opinion. I know that sounds overly harsh, but you are screaming at me with bold and underlined sentences while my last comment contained phrases like "Sorry about that, my mistake." and "Now let's think on this together....no more arguing, just brainstorming." I was being completely honest; I WAS being apologetic and I wanted to collaborate, especially since our conversation led us to the interesting idea of human Celestia's and human Luna's being born like a legacy until the.
"You are not trying to understand, you are trying to sock your own theory to me."
All we are having is a discussion. My idea of a discussion is when we bounce our own ideas and opinions off each other, which sometimes leads to shared epiphanies or new ideas on either side, like the 'reborn human Celestia' concept. Take me for example. At the beginning of the conversation, I didn't consider the idea of a human Sunset being possible. But after bouncing ideas off you, my opinion is different! I learned from you! My headcanon concerning Sunset isn't exactly the same as your own, as shown in my last comment, but that shouldn't matter to you right?
This is simply a discussion. I am doing absolutely nothing to prevent you from listening to what I have to say, taking it with a grain of salt, and then just agreeing to disagree with my views. I'd rather have a mature, calm discussion on the merits of each of our opinions, but right now you are FAR too angry. Please calm down.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Haven't I told you multiple times not to tear down my sentences?
We never were discussing. You were, or still are, trying to lead me to your headcanon. You kept on referring to your own theory instead of asking me what my headcanon was. You never were asking about my headcanon, you were dragging me to yours.
Because if you were, then you would let me talk instead of using your own theory. To which you never did, until the very last minute.
So yes, you were, or still are, being close-minded. You were, or still are, holding on to your thoughts. You were, or still are, the one being overprotective of your own opinion, because you keep referring to it.
Oh, forgot to add. If you actually were trying to understand my headcanon, you would ask about it from the very beginning of our conversation. Now have a look at your very first comment; stating facts that are clearly just your theory.
And now you said you accept my headcanon? Deep down in your heart you don't. Why? Because you want people to use yours, and it is shown by you always using your own theory. You never ask first; you always hit first. And if the victim didn't fall, only then you start asking.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You are paranoid, angry and snapping every olive branch in sight. When in the history of anything has that been a good combination?
I will wait for you to calm down.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Maybe I am, and that is only after you attacked me.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And two or three wrongs make a right?
You attacked me several times in a highly aggressive and paranoid manor, one before AND one after I asked if we could stop arguing and just discuss things, and a THIRD time after I sincerely apologized for words being too hasty and rudely-absolute.
What you are doing right now is this: Just because I foolishly was rude and too forceful with my opinions earlier in the discussion, that gives you the right to intentionally be a defensive asshole to me several times even when all I'm doing now is apologizing and trying to make peace....
.....how do you justify that? Its immoral and hypocritical...how are you NOT the bad guy in this scenario?! The real world equivalent would be if I accidentally elbowed you in the face because I was being careless and stupid, and in response you threw me to the ground and punched me in the face three times, even after I started apologizing.
I am responsible for you getting angry at me. I really am sorry. But I am NOT responsible for you being paranoid and petty.
In other words: You are acting like a far bigger asshole then I ever was right now. Stating that you are the victim is an unbelievably petty was of justifying all of that.
Do you still want to fight? I certainly don't. I'd rather have a good discussion from this point on. Is that really such an unreasonable request for you?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I too would rather stop, but you see:
At the very beginning, you attacked me by being rude towards me, so I fought back. Then you apologized for being rude but still attacking me by telling me to calm down and stop being angry, as if you didn't know you were the one causing it, so I kept fighting back. And only just now you apologized for making me angry but still saying that I'm the bad guy here.
Should I keep fighting back? Can you apologize without attacking me? Or is that an unreasonable request for you?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
<= Prev | | Next =>