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uncledon — Science I - Carl Sagan
#science #carl_sagan #scientists
Published: 2018-01-27 05:11:17 +0000 UTC; Views: 854; Favourites: 92; Downloads: 1
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A man of such insight and eloquence that once led us on a journey of discovery that brought enlightenment to millions including myself as a young boy with books of great vision and lectures of pure poetry has been missed but his ideas and words will live on. On the other hand the pitiful 'grunts' of Ham-bones of the type Dr. Sagan referred to will be forgotten as dismal attempts to turn back the clock to the Dark Ages after he ceases to be.Related content
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I wish that Carl Sagan and Richard Feynman were still alive. They were good scientists that could really connect with people.
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I agree and understand fully but while their words and ideas remain and are influencing people far after they dies is in itself a real form of immortality. Socrates and Plato along with all the other great ancient minds passed from life millennia ago yet they live on and continue to affect our world.
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There are multiple conjectures in this comparison;
Firstly, that science wasn't created to understand the universe but understand the creations of God.
Secondly, that science through the lenses of atheists is narrow minded as it excludes the miraculous and phenomenal.
Thirdly, the assertion that this "Book" is in fact based entirely upon faith alone and has no historical, geological and physical evidence to support it, which incidentally, it does, in enormous quantities.
When evidence stands against the conjecture of theory and many hypothesis, then we can safely assume that in faith, there is truth and fact.
Everything else is pure denial and science has nothing to do with blindness by subjective denial.
C.
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Judging from your multi-paragraph response to comments that doesn’t praise your statement, I say the book that calls out people’s ego, (and a bunch of other problems.
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“Firstly, that science wasn't created to understand the universe but understand the creations of God.”
This is your third positive assertion that said ‘god’ is a reality so allow me to point out that unless and until you in fact objectively and verifiable demonstration that this is the case you are in effect asking that your personal opinions, nay delusions regarding some mythological concepts be swallowed wholesale without substantiation. Sadly you appear not to comprehend what science really is instead trying to distort it to conform you’re your religious obsessions. Science cast off the restrictions of dogmatic religious ideas nearly four centuries ago and in the brief span of a little more than 350 years has advanced the human condition more than your christian ideology did in 2,000, any other mythology did in the 6,000 years of recorded history or possibly the 35,000 years of human culture. Or ever will for that matter due to the undeniable fact that christianity and all other such mythologies maker the unjustified assertion that they hold all the answers thus making any real questions heretical.
“Secondly, that science through the lenses of atheists is narrow minded as it excludes the miraculous and phenomenal.”
Such claims are ignored for the very good reason that no such claimed event has ever been objectively, rationally or verifiable demonstrated to exist. This is little more than the creationist whine of ‘science can’t be right because it doesn’t accept my claims that magic is real’. Well show that it is and stop crying.
“Thirdly, the assertion that this "Book" is in fact based entirely upon faith alone and has no historical, geological and physical evidence to support it, which incidentally, it does, in enormous quantities. “
Ah yes the vague and meaningless creationist assertion that ‘there’s tons of evidence supporting my magic book’ yet none is ever forthcoming made very clear by you not even presenting one shred of the evidence your allege exists. In case in your detailed cruise through my pages you failed to notice I happen to hold advanced degrees in a number of scientific fields including geology so I would be extremely interested to hear you document this alleged evidence not only in that science but in all of them.
For example I would love to hear what you think is evidence that support the myth of a global flood as no matter how many times I listen to a creationist try to sell that nonsense it never gets old and is always almost as funny as a Marx Brother comedy.
“When evidence stands against the conjecture of theory and many hypothesis, then we can safely assume that in faith, there is truth and fact.”
Faith is the excuse people offer when they know that they have no means or evidence to support what they wish to believe often for no other reason than they find psychological comfort in it. Faith in an idea has no validity outside the person in question but can be used to support any and all ideas which if utilized to the full spectrum would lead to holding a multitude of contradictory and conflicting ideas.
People religiously obsessed endlessly assert this pitiful idea of ‘faith is the path to truth’ when there is nothing that cannot be asserted to be ‘true’ based on faith. Again your own narrow focus blinds you to the simple fact that you ignore and dismiss every other non-christian ideology despite the fact that billions of people apply the exact same type of ‘faith = truth’ idea you are trying to sell here thus making it an utterly flawed concept.
I suggest that rather that posting further irrelevant ideas you read the attached statement regarding comments. You have not indicated how what has been offered is wrong but apparently are intent on preaching which I have little to no patience for. If that is all you wish to do then you have and I suggest that you move on.
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1. I assert that God is real because God is real.
It seems you have a very limited understanding of both science and history; ironic considering your claims to reason and rationale.
Interesting. You reject historical recounts and proofs that support my position as they do not appeal to you; I wonder where that ends.
I fear you understand neither Christianity nor science.
Putting that aside.
2. No need to be upset, this is an objective discussion after all.
Actually, you're incorrect, these claims support my position, and not only because there is no evidence to disprove the existence of God, but because the evidence does the opposite and supports the existence of God.
The common atheist view is: "Anything that can be claimed to be the works of God can also be claimed to be the works of aliens". Strawmen for centuries.
3. No historical or geographical evidence? I am quite certain that Israel, Jerusalem, Lebanon, Egypt and Greece exist, to name a few.
My friend, there are "tonnes", literally, of evidence to support the evidence in regards to the authority, preservation and integrity of my "book". Incidentally, that evidence does not diminish over time but continue grow. I would like you to please provide evidence that atheism is in fact has integrity over historical and geographical evidence, unfortunately, that would require denial.
Indeed, the truth in regards to the Great Flood is comical to those willing to reject the evidence that supports it. Not surprising, but moving forward.
4. Claiming faith to be an "excuse" is terribly narrow minded. Faith is not restricted to religion. Have you no faith in your spouse? That they will not dishonor or disrespect you? You cannot tell me or anyone that they will do no such thing, for no one can make such a claim can they, for no one knows, but has faith, that they will not. Rejecting faith is foolish. As a man who apparently served for his country, do you not have faith in the men whom serve with you, or that your cause was just? Faith is not an excuse, faith is as reasonable as certainty, rejecting faith is foolish.
5. You seem to enjoy overstating on the ideals and practices of "religious people", when it seems from my stand point that you obsess over how you view religion as foolish and unfounded, unscientific and unreasonable. A pot calling the kettle black, so it is.
6. Additional rebuttal: I do not dismiss other non-Chistian ideologies, in fact, I utilize the certainty that goes into the beliefs of other ideologies to fuel the certainty in the authority of my own religion, which do not affect my own faith. In short, Islam supports the authority, the integrity and preservation of the Christians Gospels and the Torah, which have a 700 year difference in time of revelation.
With the enthusiasm you have towards mocking Christianity, you should do some studies into Islam; you will have a field day, I promise.
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“I assert that God is real because God is real.”
That is perhaps the single most irrational, childish and ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard a christian fanatic utter. Not only do you appear to actually think that just asserting this type of nonsense makes a valid argument but that it makes the concept a reality without stopping to consider for a second that the same type of ignorance can be and is used to defend every other nonsensical idea from Bigfoot to universe farting pixies to Islam to whatever ridiculous idea someone holds true.
I have seen five year olds roll their eyes and snicker at someone saying that type of ignorance.
“It seems you have a very limited understanding of both science and history; ironic considering your claims to reason and rationale.”
Actually if you had reviewed even the minimal data I posted you would see that I hold multiple degrees in various scientific discipline while you state that you are a ‘professional artist’ and an avid video gamer indicating to me when combined with your religious obsessions that you in fact lack much in the way of scientific education and are merely spewing another empty assertion desperate to make your claims appear to be based in reality without explanation.
“Interesting. You reject historical recounts and proofs that support my position as they do not appeal to you; I wonder where that ends.”
What historical accounts? If you are playing the tired and useless card of Tacitus or Pliny the Younger that most creationists like you try to use as ‘proof that jesus was real’ don’t because neither of them or any other of the extremely few external reports are first person contemporary account recanting only what later believers said and did.
“I fear you understand neither Christianity nor science.”
Well you can assert whatever you like but in fact I do understand both which is why I dismiss christianity as an unsubstantiated, primitive, barbaric mythology and rely on the science I have in fact studied intensively.
“No need to be upset, this is an objective discussion after all.”
Not in the least as you burst in asserting all manner of totally subjective claims replete with numerous logical fallacies such as shifting the burden of proof regarding a claim that had not been made in a useless attempt to preach that you are right because you say that you are since you believe in supernatural magic. At the same time whining that you are ‘offended’ [christian persecution syndrome] because someone dares to point out the inherent flaws in your preferred mythology and laugh in your face.
“Actually, you're incorrect, these claims support my position, and not only because there is no evidence to disprove the existence of God, but because the evidence does the opposite and supports the existence of God.”
Still trying to shift the burden of proof I see as well as just pretending that by making a claim that there is evidence supporting your myths that there actually is any such thing Sorry but you must in fact do more than just assert that your delusions are real you have to show that they are which you likely understand that you cannot do ergo these pathetic ploys.
“The common atheist view is: "Anything that can be claimed to be the works of God can also be claimed to be the works of aliens". Strawmen for centuries.”
Actually that is not a ‘strawman fallacy’ which apparently you do not understand at all as well as being a valid contention as neither you nor the alien promoters can present any objective or verifiable evidence supporting you claims.
Here is some free education as you apparently as in desperate need of it. A strawman fallacy is caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack and is committed when a person simply ignores another person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. A description of the fallacy is substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument. The logical form is: Person 1 makes claim Y. Person 2 restates person 1’s claim (in a distorted way). Person 2 attacks the distorted version of the claim. Therefore, claim Y is false.
As I have not done this your continued attempts to assert this false reply demonstrates your real lack of knowledge likely due to spending far too many hours playing video games.
“No historical or geographical evidence? I am quite certain that Israel, Jerusalem, Lebanon, Egypt and Greece exist, to name a few.”
Sadly you are still frantically trying to assert that because a few geographical locations then known to the human authors of that book are real that the magical components are also real and that is nonsense.
“My friend,”
Again I am NOT your friend and likely never will be.
“there are "tonnes", literally, of evidence to support the evidence in regards to the authority, preservation and integrity of my "book".”
So what, as the age and number of copies of a book does not in any manner count as evidence to the veracity of its contents and by this same argument you must then accept every other religious ideology on the planet as they too have a great many copies and some such as the Hindu Vedas predate your magic book by nearly a thousand years. The simplicity and ignorance of your ideas indicates that you have very little knowledge of either the state of the world with respect to religion or logical argumentation but are merely swinging wildly in an expression of your religious zeal.
“Incidentally, that evidence does not diminish over time but continue grow.”
Really then why do you just continue to make these vague and nebulous claims instead of documenting what this so-called evidence is? Because you most likely know that there is none but merely more and more rhetorical argumentation such as yours that boils down to ‘I’m right because I say I am’.
What is this alleged evidence and why haven’t you or any other christian zealot held a news conference to show it to the world and end centuries of debate and violence by showing objectively and conclusively that you are right? Simple answer is not the patently asinine claim the ‘everyone’s against us’ made completely idiotic by the fact that your mythology is the largest, though shrinking, faith in the world but that you in fact don’t have such wealth of evidence or any at all infact.
“I would like you to please provide evidence that atheism is in fact has integrity over historical and geographical evidence, unfortunately, that would require denial.”
Denial of what or are you just spewing forth these remarks to vent your hostility at seeing your religious beliefs taken to task? Where have I stated my beliefs? I have shown exactly how ridiculous yours are, stated the remarks of others who also see them as such but have not stated my own so this is another case of you trying to assert what does not exist in order to make a false demand.
“Indeed, the truth in regards to the Great Flood is comical to those willing to reject the evidence that supports it.”
What evidence is that other than some nonsense that you have possibly plucked from some creationist website? As a geologist I can state categorically that there is none even as a creationist like you makes this type of idiotic claim but never actually states what it is. What you simply cannot comprehend i\s that even if such an event took place that does not in any way validate you ‘god’ claim as you must demonstrate that is real directly not through these fake pretenses.
“Claiming faith to be an "excuse" is terribly narrow minded.”
Yes it is an excuse that people like you use when they cannot present clear, detailed, objective, verifiable reason to support what they believe just as you continuously do. What is really narrow minded is refusing to even consider rational, objective reality in favor of a baseless and unsupported Bronze Age mythology based on the idea that magic is real because that is what your wish were true.
“Faith is not restricted to religion.”
No people do have faith in other ideas and things but that does not change the fact that their stating that they believe through faith is not a valid reason.
“Have you no faith in your spouse? That they will not dishonor or disrespect you? You cannot tell me or anyone that they will do no such thing, for no one can make such a claim can they, for no one knows, but has faith, that they will not.”
Not married now so next point and who made such a claim here anyway?
“Rejecting faith is foolish.”
No it is a rational position as faith is neither a pathway to what is true as in supported by objective reality and can be used to support any and even contradictory positions at the same time.
“As a man who apparently served for his country, do you not have faith in the men whom serve with you, or that your cause was just?”
Since you are unlikely to have ever served in the military especially in combat as I have your remark is exceedingly pretentious and useless as you have no basis of understanding on the issue and are just grasping at straws desperate to create the illusion that your ‘faith’ idea has merit. I did not have ‘faith’ in my comrades, subordinates and superiors but trust based on their actions and conduct which is objective evidence that they can be trusted. You like all creationists are desperate to ignore supported trust and verified confidence through past experience in order to validate the empty and unsubstantiated claim that it is equal to blind faith that has no such prior demonstration.
That is absurd and little more than a rhetorical ploy.
I have watched religious zealots like you cower in fear in the bottom of a hole screaming prayers for their god to save them yet doing precisely nothing to help themselves because of their FAITH in their invisible friend only to be ‘saved’ by people willing to trust in themselves and others in reality to act on their own. Don’t presume to question me about trust in a combat situation your lazy little video game addict and christian fanatic as you have no idea what the hell you are talking about and are just trying to spew some religious ignorance desperately trying to shield your delusions from reality.
“Faith is not an excuse, faith is as reasonable as certainty, rejecting faith is foolish.”
No it is an excuse and what is foolish is accepting anything on faith when there exists no valid reason to do so otherwise you become a willing target for every con artist and huckster on the planet which explains why so many christian evangelists are filthy rich having scammed people like you out of their cash.
“Additional rebuttal: I do not dismiss other non-Chistian ideologies,”
Well good for you but apparently only when you can manufacture the irrational claim that they validate your mythology which is a ridiculously absurd notion.
“In short, Islam supports the authority, the integrity and preservation of the Christians Gospels and the Torah, which have a 700 year difference in time of revelation.”
Then you have no real knowledge of the doctrines and tenets of Islam as it was derived from aspects of the Torah but there as several distinct differences such as in Islamic tradition it was not Isaac but Ismael that Ibrahim [Abraham] took to sacrifice. Furthermore the single most fundamental doctrine of your christian ideology is that Yeshua [jesus] is in fact divine and the only path to ‘salvation’ which Islam rejects entirely seeing that character solely as a prophet but neither divine or the means to gain paradise. Therefore trying to assert through sheer ignorance that “Islam supports the authority, the integrity and preservation of the Christians Gospels” is so utterly preposterous, so completely ignorance and so totally asinine as to almost make the term ‘stupidity’ pale by comparison.
“With the enthusiasm you have towards mocking Christianity, you should do some studies into Islam; you will have a field day, I promise.”
Actually from your apparent lack of understanding of even the most basic doctrines of Islam and your flawed attempt to create the illusion that its very existence supports your mythology I’d say that I have already done so and to a far greater extent than you. Just to set the record straight I mock and deride all religious nonsense though I do pay particular attention to the christian form of ignorance as it has a far greater impact on my country.
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It doesn't matter what the human species believes. The earth is a speck of cosmic dust. Orbiting a dying star..Anound and around and around..etc,etc,etc...I think you get the idea..
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Considder the golden middle path - Everything the scientific community is saying, is correct - as far as current knowledge goes. Also everything the scriptures say, is true - in that the Creator, by any name you wish, did create everything - using our understanding of science, but could not explain it in those terms to the scripture writers - as they, as ancient humans, would not and could not understand - so they received a very redacted version.
Even my personally beloved evolution can be correlated biblically - if you take into account that the original hebrew word, erronously translated to "day", actually means "era". Hence there are six 'eras" of creation - eons-long periods of slow and difficult change. Change instigated by a "higher Power"
I agree with you that the bible-pushing tunnel-visioned masses are idiots, (I DO NOT abide dogma!), but also I feel that the outright disbelief in something greater than ourselves is a tad on the vain side - considdering how ENORMOUS the cosmos is!
Even aliens can be explained in this way - why would an allmighty creator create life on only one small speck in the whole of the universe (or universes!)? That is contradictory to the religious way of thinking!!
Anyway - I agree that these themes need to be discussed, and openly, without too strong words - as humans do tend to overstate things and then begin wars becuase of a simple idea..... Dangerous ground, but we have to tread on it!! Please keep posting!
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“Considder the golden middle path - Everything the scientific community is saying, is correct - as far as current knowledge goes. Also everything the scriptures say, is true - in that the Creator, by any name you wish, did create everything.”
Sorry but that is something I will never do since what you are asking for is that such unsubstantiated claims of unsupportable mythology and magic be given unwarranted equal status with ideas that can be demonstrated to exist in reality. That is absurd, a request for special privilege and in simple terms a pathetic attempt to dodge the requirement to provide such a demonstration that these claims are real as those making them understand full well they cannot do so.
More to the point to what ‘scriptures’ are you making vague references to as if that was not rather obvious even though you make the ‘by any name you wish’ remark to apparently mask that fact? This is a common ploy by the religiously motivated attempting to mask their actual position appearing to be ‘open minded’ while at the same time making statements that leave little doubt that they are promoting one single ideology. As a scientist I general begin to doubt the veracity and validity of any presentation or paper where the author uses even such mild subterfuge instead of directly stating their position.
I am not making an accusation but stating how this could be viewed.
“Even my personally beloved evolution can be correlated biblically”
Not by any stretch of the imagination for various reasons and this idea has been tried many times in the past and every time it fails miserably despite the myriad of personal interpretations used.
First and foremost is that all creation myths rely solely and completely on undemonstrated claims that supernatural magic is the cause. Next all such myths including the biblical one contain gross errors, irreconcilable internal contradictions [see Genesis 1 and 2] and major flaws with regard to known scientific evidence. The idea that these can be ‘excused’ based on the primitive state of understanding of the alleged authors is meaningless due to said magical thinking and positive assertions that it is valid without any supporting material. If the latter were to be accepted then all other creation myths must then be taken seriously as well and that is absurd.
“if you take into account that the original hebrew word, erronously translated to "day", actually means "era"”
I am sorry but that is the actual error as the Hebrew scripture does in fact translate to ‘day’ which can be verified at www.chabad.org/library/bible_c… for example, where it states; “Bereishit [Genesis] Chapter 1, verses 5-8:
And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night, and it was evening and it was morning, one day. הוַיִּקְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים | לָאוֹר֙ י֔וֹם וְלַח֖שֶׁךְ קָ֣רָא לָ֑יְלָה וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר י֥וֹם אֶחָֽד:
And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, and let it be a separation between water and water." ווַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים יְהִ֥י רָקִ֖יעַ בְּת֣וֹךְ הַמָּ֑יִם וִיהִ֣י מַבְדִּ֔יל בֵּ֥ין מַ֖יִם לָמָֽיִם:
And God made the expanse and it separated between the water that was below the expanse and the water that was above the expanse, and it was so. זוַיַּ֣עַשׂ אֱלֹהִים֘ אֶת־הָֽרָקִיעַ֒ וַיַּבְדֵּ֗ל בֵּ֤ין הַמַּ֨יִם֙ אֲשֶׁר֙ מִתַּ֣חַת לָֽרָקִ֔יעַ וּבֵ֣ין הַמַּ֔יִם אֲשֶׁ֖ר מֵעַ֣ל לָֽרָקִ֑יעַ וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן:
And God called the expanse Heaven, and it was evening, and it was morning, a second day. חוַיִּקְרָ֧א אֱלֹהִ֛ים לָֽרָקִ֖יעַ שָׁמָ֑יִם וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר י֥וֹם שֵׁנִֽי:
Do you possess a degree in Hebrew or Judaic studies? If not then without a verifiable citation as to where you acquired this interpretation I am afraid that I must dismiss it and rely on sources that do have the backing of such experts. Other examples which confirm the translation to ‘day’ include www.ishwar.com/judaism/holy_to… and www.sefaria.org/Genesis.1?lang… and these can be validated by offline sources if you wish.
“Hence there are six 'eras" of creation - eons-long periods of slow and difficult change.”
I am in fact a Ph.D. in geology, as well as a second in paleontology, and have heard this vague assertion attempting to link the biblical ‘days of creation’ to the actual development of the universe and life on this planet. This is sorry to say a ridiculous construct as the entire model is so vague as to be without merit, out of sequence with regard to the order of cosmic and biological evolution, makes gross errors regarding biology that cannot be excused as simply misunderstanding and so on and states that certain impossible events occurred such as floods. A first grade child shown a bat and a bird would not think that they are related yet biblical authors say they are of the same ‘kind’ since both fly.
“Change instigated by a "higher Power”
Sadly that is a positive assertion of knowledge you neither possess in reality nor can you demonstrate with objective, verifiable evidence making it an assertion of religious belief, i.e., baseless subjective opinion.
“but also I feel that the outright disbelief in something greater than ourselves is a tad on the vain side”
You are free to believe whatever you like however I consider such to be an unsupportable, subjective opinion mired in ancient mythological ideologies that hinge on a personal need to believe that outside ‘forces’ are supporting you as well as an irrational need to think that some unsubstantiated part of you will ‘live forever’ because of said belief. It is no way ‘vain’ but rational to dismiss any idea that cannot support itself with actual evidence but relies on blind faith particularly as this in direct contradiction to how we live in reality for the most part. Yes I have ‘faith’ in the honesty and reliability of my brother for example but that is due to years of experience which I would not extend to a stranger because there exists no evidence that they are trustworthy.
If you function is any other manner than I wish to discuss various investment opportunities with you.
“considdering how ENORMOUS the cosmos is”
Precisely what does the size or complexity of the universe have to do with your contention? That is simply an attempt to offer an analogy fallacy asserting ‘well it’s really, really big so it must be created’. That is religious nonsense.
“Even aliens can be explained in this way - why would an allmighty creator create life on only one small speck in the whole of the universe (or universes!)?”
No, in fact that is yet another assertion without justification merely once more claiming that some undefined and undemonstrated supernatural creature is responsible for the presence of extraterrestrial life you also cannot show actually exists. Sadly that is nothing more than a baseless assertion stacked atop a supposition couched in a fallacy. Yes the potential for life on other worlds is almost a certainty due to the vastness of the universe but to just assert that some deity that you have not demonstrated is real was the cause is to be blunt utterly ridiculous.
“That is contradictory to the religious way of thinking!”
Of course it is but until any believer in any such mythology presents the aforementioned demonstration that it is based in fact and not merely their personal beliefs such ‘thinking’ is rather useless particularly due to the contradictory nature of the nearly 3,000 documented ‘deities’ that have been invented over the course of recorded history.
“I agree that these themes need to be discussed, and openly, without too strong words”
Here I disagree as those proposing that such religious mythologies are irrational and harmful have throughout history and continue to be the focus of far more than ‘strong words’ but in many places outright violence and even murdered. They need to be opposed in the strongest possible manner to force them to come to grips with the fact that they are not going to rule over others. While I forcefully present these ideas at times in extremely strong terms I do so reasonable and backed by more than the zealotry and aggression common to most believers, i.e., evidence.
When one offers criticism or argument in the same tone as you have done I reply in the same manner which I do even when another descends to the level of a grammar school thug ‘shouting’ threats and profanity because I maintain the high ground so that my ideas are not tainted but such ignorance.
“Dangerous ground, but we have to tread on it!! Please keep posting!”
Thank you very much and I will. I also thank you for your reasonable remarks and apparent enjoyment of my work. I would entertain more such discourse when you wish as far too often we encounter fanatics and zealots as I have recently with two who view Graham Hancock's neo-Atlantean pseudoscience as 'fact' showing that it is a quasi-religion to those devoted to it.
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I stand corrected and in absolute awe!
This was the first time that anyone actually gave me scientific, factual and referenced replies on questions that have been haunting my mind!
As to my education - I am not at all educated! Grade 12 only! So I do so appreciate the (now very quotable) references to studies by my betters.
This reply has opened up a new path of thinking for me, and I am greatful to you for being honest and direct - even though I now feel completely stupid!
Great work - and I will certainly follow you to learn as much as I can!
Thanks again!
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“I stand corrected and in absolute awe!”
The corrected part is good but the ‘awe’ is a bit over-much I think.
“This was the first time that anyone actually gave me scientific, factual and referenced replies on questions that have been haunting my mind!”
Then those other people should be ashamed for not having taken the time.
“As to my education - I am not at all educated! Grade 12 only!”
There I totally disagree. You do possess education and have shown yourself to be open minded and willing to evaluate information on its merits not based on subjective demands. My dear father only had a 12th grade education earned while working in a factory as they had accepted him as a machinists apprenticeship program. At his 90th birthday he overheard me tell his friend that he was the smartest man I’d ever met which he remarked ‘but Don you’ve got all those degrees’. I laughed and explained that was just facts and figures whereas he had experienced the Great Depression, a World War, Cold War…
Schooling does not make you intelligent, a willingness to learn, to question, to grow is what makes one intelligent and I think you have that.
Do not accept what I say as fact because I said it check on what I said if there is any doubt. Verification is how science and real knowledge works.
“So I do so appreciate the (now very quotable) references to studies by my betters.”
You are welcome ONLY if you never refer to such people as ‘my betters’ again. I have met Noble Prize awardees, worked with pillars in my field and people whose work I greatly respect. They might be my scientific superiors, possibly of greater renown but the are NOT my netters and none would lay claims to such. But a few have been a little smug and pompous but yeah we’re all just monkeys in lab coats.
“This reply has opened up a new path of thinking for me, and I am greatful to you for being honest and direct - even though I now feel completely stupid!”
“I’m going to come over there and give you a whack on the backside’ as grandma used to say if you don’t stop belittling yourself. Never say such things about yourself as they can become how you see yourself. Don’t say ‘I’m no good at that’ say instead ‘that gives me some trouble so I’m working hard at understanding it’.
“Great work - and I will certainly follow you to learn as much as I can!”
Thank you for the kindness but if you think I’m such a sage then I can offer a list of references who will gladly list my flaws.
The world of knowledge is at your fingertips today with the net while when I was young I walked to the library and read whatever interested me. Now you can write an email to Tyson or Dawkins or any of a hundred other great minds and possibly get an answer though a lesser known professor at a nearby university might have more time to spare.
“Thanks again!”
You are most welcome. And thank you for the watch. I hope you get a few laughs and some ideas.
Might I suggest you read ‘The Demon Haunted World’ by Sagan available online at www.metaphysicspirit.com/books… as he was a marvelous author as well as a great scientific mind. His absence has been felt all over the world.
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