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undefinedreference In reply to retransmission [2019-11-25 14:08:11 +0000 UTC]

Btw, I think those corpses hanging from the trees may be an "artistic interpretation" of this:

yakutiamedia.ru/news/433616/
www.neveroyatno.info/news/zakh…

Interesting stuff!

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retransmission In reply to undefinedreference [2019-11-30 07:46:09 +0000 UTC]

Yes, I know about such burials, it looks very special and reminds me of funeral traditions of some Native Americans tribes, who probably have common roots with some Indigenous  peoples of the North Russia, at least dna research proves this. I remember in the old movie "Угрюм-река" there was an episode with a similar burial of a shaman woman, a long black braid hanging from her coffin and it really scared me when I was a child, even in a book illustration

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undefinedreference In reply to retransmission [2019-11-30 09:44:13 +0000 UTC]

On a different page I read that in some cases the body of a shaman was tied to the tree trunk. I'm not sure how to imagine that, but it's still something different than being hung from a branch. And those shaman graves do strike great fear into the people of their tribe, there's a lot been written about that subject in particular.

I do get the impression that if you want to understand what Native American religions are/were all about, Yakutia is a good place to start (Buryatia also, although Buryatian shamanism is already more formalized). Yakutian shamanism may not be be exactly the same, but it seems to be built on very similar foundations. And while much of NA religion was either destroyed or is kept deeply hidden in order to protect it from the movie/tourism industries, which tend to spoil everything (to the point where many Native Americans themselves probably no longer know exactly what is "tourist" and what is "real"), these things never played a significant role with regard to the Yakuts. Apart from that, much of what is to be discovered on the internet was written by Yakuts and for Yakuts, like that link I posted, which was written by a relative and true believer, rather than by some anthropologist or "ecstatic new age hippie" Here's another link:  www.shamanstvo.ru/people/peopl… . And the fact that I personally perhaps may not agree with anything they write doesn't matter at all, it's the fact that on these pages shamanism is described by people who believe in shamanism that matters. Which provides an entirely different, and in my eyes more interesting view. And what I also find interesting is that these thing apply not only to for example Native Americans, but literally to all of us, because all of our ancestors were animists at some point. And even if most of them have since "moved on", and we have developed quite different views on reality, I'm not sure that the deeper-lying sentiments have been erased to a similar extent. Those are much more tenacious I do believe that all great artists are essentially shamans and animists who can bring to life that which is dead (paint, canvas, stone, ..), but at the same time Nazi Germany was largely built on tribal sentiments at a shamanic level. So these same forces can be used both for the good and the bad, but that's what makes them interesting

So far I've come across all sorts of surprising and interesting stuff, like this for example, from that link above:

"Наиболее значимые родовые онгоны (духи предков), бывшие в средневековье сильными шаманами, остаются такими и ныне. Они являются к избранному шаману или шаманке в момент первого транса и диктуют условия временного сотрудничества. При этом онгоны никогда не требуют от потомков возврата к прежним традициям, хотя многие из них стали буддистами. Принятие современности духами предков можно объяснить только их специфическим видением из потустороннего мира самой сути современных бытовых проблем, в принципе не отличающихся от тех, которые возникали у людей сто, двести, триста ... лет назад." Here, even the spirits seem to keep up with the times At a more serious level it's extremely interesting, because it is anti-regressive, unlike all the "neo" stuff that's going on these days..

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retransmission In reply to undefinedreference [2019-12-07 08:44:00 +0000 UTC]

Of course, ancient spirits keep up with the times, they understand what progress and evolution are and change their old foundations in striving for new trends. There is some truth in this joke, because things are changing in the world, and higher beings understand this. I remembered Allan Cardek’s books about spiritualism, he believed that the spirit world is similar to ours, it’s just like another country, but somewhere outside of our borders.

You are right about animism, it was close to almost all peoples, perhaps even to everyone in the distant past. I have always been interested in those primitive beliefs, because they were always more profound and came from the heart, but in the Middle Ages these words were already dangerous as a real heresy

In fact, the Middle Ages witches also appealed to the forces of nature, But opponents (church,inquisition) have always interpreted this in their favor , as eternaty  struggle of the devil against the  God and chased them. Although most of them (real of course) used other forces in their magical practices.  Everything that was written in the interrogation reports was a real fiction but the church in that era always followed its style and "connected" it all on the ideas of Christianity.

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undefinedreference In reply to retransmission [2019-07-10 14:26:51 +0000 UTC]

Like Christianity, Islam destroyed many of the old practices. I have no opinion about this myself. I do know that from the perspective of the worldly powers, monotheism was extremely useful for nation building. The main difference between those old pagan times and later, seems to be that at first neighboring villages were at war with each other all the time (an issue the neo-paganists don't highlight very much), and later it were neighboring nations. What's the difference, essentially? I'm personally very much in favor of taking the next step and abolishing nations as well, even if to Christians that would sound very creepy, because they can only imagine such a thing in the form of a global government, led by the Antichrist. But perhaps there are alternatives

I've been thinking a lot about this двоеверые, which traditionally encompasses Orthodoxy and paganism. I've been growing quite convinced that there's a third element that plays an important role, which are the scattered remnants of Bogomilism (which would make it a троеверие!). On the western flank of the Eurasian subcontinent, Bogomilistic beliefs sparked Protestantism according to some. That would mean that it has left a huge imprint on the world. Which makes sense, because Bogomilism's arch enemy was religion that has hooked up with the worldly powers, and exists to serve those powers at the expense of justice and of the poor. That's a pretty universal theme

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