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windfalcon β Mary Sue - How to Tell
Published: 2004-02-25 08:27:37 +0000 UTC; Views: 431552; Favourites: 7001; Downloads: 44656
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EDIT 3: 11/22/09 You guys are kidding me XD For goodness sakes, reaaaaad the liink here: [link] Every time I get a comment that reads "the one on the left is a Mary Sue because she has green hair and a power," I realize that they're not reading the description which contains this link: [link]tl;dr: If 'special' traits fit in with the universe, it doesn't automatically make the character a Mary Sue. What if everyone else in Ami Machida's universe has green/blue/purple hair? What if everyone else has a cat power? Does that make her a Mary Sue? Not necessarily.
Please, spare me the time from having to point you BACK to the silly description and just take a minute to read the link. You know, the one I linked to a bunch of times up above. And the link here: [link]
EDIT 2: 10/11/09 I suppose this is long overdue, but for those of you with confusion, here is an explanation on why I perceive the one on the left as not a Mary Sue: [link] For the love of god stop whining about it D:
EDIT: 6/21/09 Okay, everyone, please chill with all the 'hay is my character a mary-sue!?11" questions. I get about 3 a day now and one thing you need to understand - I AM NOT AN AUTHORITY ON MARY SUES. This picture is a parody. Just for fun. The one on the right is obviously an extreme exaggeration of a stereotype and not the definitive definition for a Mary Sue. D:
Please full view. You won't be able to read the text if you don't.
For those of you who don't know, a Mary Sue, in a nutshell, is a fanmade character that is usually extremely beautiful, powerful, smart, talented, and in plain words, perfect in every way.
These characters tend to be quite a bother in fanfiction and role playing, since they simply can't be beat, and thus become boring.
Have any of you ever been rping, and come across a character who is like, " oh, well, that planet in the way isn't a problem *blows it up*"
Or, is like, "well, Vegeta and Goten and Trunks and Goku ALL have a crush on my character"
Yep. That's a Mary Sue.
So, for people who still don't understand, I made this little picture/diagram. Usually, Mary Sues have TONS of talents and TONS of powers, and no weaknesses.
Enjoy ^_^
-Done in Copic Markers, with the background and text done on computer -
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Comments: 4629
I did and /i wasΒ like WOWΒ
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I am so sorry it seems a lot of people today get really upset about this drawing.
When I was young, I learned what a Mary Sue was by merely reading through this, and I had a lot of fun in roleplaying as a child. Which I gave up on once I grew older.
Thing is for everyone who doesn't entirelly understand, first of all, this is Windfalcons drawing and their opinion. You don't have to agree with it. And you don't neccesarily have to understand it either. Just move on if you don't have anything nice to say.
And secondly, if you're going to join a huge forum roleplay about characters with epic powers and abilities, I would assume going in with "Jasmyne" wouldn't be so bad. However, if its a big roleplay with just as close to life as possible- school life, bringing in a huge epic firebreathing dragon that can't die as a character wouldn't work.
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Heh. Never expected 2004-era DA to make a comeback on my feed again.
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To be honest, I've had a person call my character Kiawe a "Gary-Stu".
I get that he's smart and talented and has a couple of powers, but he has his flaws.
(image of reference if you would like to see:
)Β
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I don't see how he's a Gary-Stu. Seems like a decent character. Congrats on having a character with a somewhat sad/tragic background and not portraying him as a walking depression so he could gather sympathy.
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Well, thanks.
I don't see how he could be a Gary-Stu either...
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That's what I thought. Each to their own ^^
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How to tell if you've created a straw man.Β
Congrats.Β
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RIP Superman
They said he's boring.
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yeah kids shouldnt be allowed to have fun
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this was made from 2004
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From what I have studied here on DA, the definition of a Mary Sue's seems to be "A character I don't like"
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LoL.Β Seems to be the whole world's definition for anything nowadays.
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If I have to see this dumbass post one more time, I'm going to scream so I'm just going to block you OP.
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TL;DR (because like the uploader has pointed out, apparently some people don't):
The Mary Sue is a stand-in for the writer with, basically, impenetrable character shields and near-omnipotence.
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The right one is more of a parody of a mary sue.Β
The common fanfiction mary sue is just a character that shares the same traits and hobbies as the writer, a sort of self insert, usually with a couple of interesting and flowery bits added on.(Funny hair or eye colour, etc.)Β Β Β Β Β Β Β
The main thing that makes them a sue from there is how they affect the story, they are either made overly important, the center of attention, or in most cases on Deviantart. attract the attention of a main character as a love interest, despite them being well below that character's league.Β Β Β
Not all mary sues are ridiculous, take rey from StarWars, or the self insert sue I described, which is way more common.
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Good work. Ami Machida and I are alike in many ways.
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Ami Machida is like me. I am bad at math.Β I like listening to music, I like gardening, etc.
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People actually say the one on the left is a mary sue? How? she doesn't have any aspects that would make her one. She isn't good at everything she does, she does brood over being perfect and constantly having the world in her hands. There's nothing in her background to suggest that she's constantly admired by every main character in her storyline.
The one on the right has all of those. Left is just anime cat girl.
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Yep, that just about covers the concept. I'd count "turning into a cat when she hears the Meow Mix song" as a weakness, though. It's the kind of thing they tack onto superheroes to keep them out of the action so the minor characters have a chance to shine.
But then again, who needs superpowers? Most powers are pretty worthless in situations other than fighting giant monsters, and if they DO have a more mundane use, people generally frown at using them that way. It makes a character seem lazy if they use their ability to hover to get things off the top shelf, or their super-hearing to attend rock concerts from outside the concert hall.
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The debate of a MARY SUE and it's EXISTENCE... haha....
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*sighs* So I'm probably speaking a massively unpopular opinion here, and I can already feel the hate comments rushing towards me (since this has happened the last 5 times i had the audacity to have an opinion regarding things like this...)
But this is an absolutely arbitrary, if not harmful, way to judge original characters.
You see, the concept of "Mary Sues", as we know them, don't actually exist. At least, not anymore. I, myself, have yet to see a true "mary sue" anywhere, that wasn't a troll of some sort, we see it everywhere, mary sue parodies, fics where people "defeat" mary sues, and so on.
But I've yet to see anything that truly "qualified" as a sue that wasn't one of these parodies.Β
And these parodies I speak of, I wouldn't really call "subtle" in their satire, thus making it obvious that they're faking it, they're trolling, they're just making an over done joke. They're beating the glue from which the dead horse was made into.
Now, if you're wondering why this is harmful, it's because well, the whole "avoiding mary sues" thing turned into witch hunts. On this site, on fanfiction sites, on tumblr, on any fancontent website you can think of. And I would know, because I've been targeted for them.
I try HARD to make my characters well rounded, have realistic personalities, flaws, etc, but someone looks at my character, doesn't read the bio (a fatal mistake), and assumes because they're *gasp* conventionally attractive and female that automatically means "ERMAGERD ERTS A SUE!" which isn't the case.Β
And then, I try, as civilly as I can, despite this having happened a whole bunch of times to me already, to defend my OC from these false, rude, baseless claims. Which gets me more harassment than any person who isn't some kinda of awful person (yknow what i mean by awful, rapists, pedos, and the like) deserves.
I mean, hell, I had someone review one of my old ass ocs (without my permission) call it "cancer" and even encouraged people to send me DEATH THREATS. DEATH THREATS. OVER A FUCKING FICTIONAL CHARACTER THAT ISN'T CANON JUST BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT.Β
That's unreasonable, completely so.
And it's not just me. I'm not the only person to ever be harassed for such an asinine reason.Β
For crying out loud, cringe culture is a HUGE example of this. Calling random OCs made by young kids "cringy" and "cancer", and calling them "triggered" when they're rightfully upset about being harassed.
And before you say "well its a public forum so people can be as shitty as they want!"Β
Yes, the internet is anonymous, but how bereft of morals do you have to be, to have to perform all kinds of mental gymnastics, to justify your harassment of CHILDREN. Do you have any idea how you sound?
And if it's so "okay" like you claim it is, do you constantly talk about this offline, with the people you know? OR do you keep it secret because deep down you know harassing children is wrong, and you know you'll be rightfully judged and deemed an asshole?
In conclusion, the concept of Mary Sues is a bad one, that is ultimately harmful to younger people who unwittingly create one, or to just content creators in general, as most people are willing to go on witch hunts to harass content creators over their OCs without knowing a damn thing about them.
Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk *drops mic*
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When I was young and when this image was posted (2004) forum roleplay was very popular and I was a part of it. In most forums I played on, there was always a kid (or an asshat, depending on their age, haha) that had an unkillable, OP character that could kill anyone by just looking at them. No weaknesses, no personality. All they wanted to do was be the most powerful one in the RP, kinda like being a final unkillable boss.
In this time, it was very common for people to do this. Mary sue didn't mean overly attractive alone, btw, it just meant a roleplaying character or character in other media (literature, movies, games) that couldn't be killed or faught without dying to it. Today these things might have changed, ofcourse, but this image is also literally 14 years old, and other things applied then. Some of todays current roleplayers were born the same year as this image was uploaded, even! haha.
Also avoiding making a mary sue character has never been harmful. It just makes people think a little more while making a character, which makes that character so much more fun! You can still make mary sue characters and just not use it to heck up an already established RP game. I currently have a character that is literally bigger than planets, imagine if I used him in a school/student oriented RP? All he is for, is for me to have fun drawing something huuuge! and sparkly <: You can even make a horrendously mary sue character, and make their story super deep and interesting! (for example Superman, even though he has weaknesses, which makes him not truly mary sue since he is defeatable).
If people are harrassing you, then they're probably just too young to understand, or a little bit too high horsed. They might not have been brought up to be nice people, as they should've. But heres the thing, since its the internet, everyone can turn into bullies if they chose to. Some do it just to get a reaction from you, others get angry for nothing. What I would suggest in this situation, is to try and just deal with the harrasment. As long as its just internet messages, I mean. Trust me, it gets way way worse (and, strangly, mostly from women, too! Its very strange. One would assume bullies would be "tough guys", oh well) Try not to respond to them as well, unless your fine with them continuing the harrasment, cus they will (unless you can turn them to your side with funny witty jokes! Sometimes that has worked for me, atleast with the guys...)
(Sorry for any spelling mistakes, english is my second language and I have bad eyesight, need new glasses xwx)
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Might also add I've never had anyone attack my characters ever. The character in my avatar here is more or less perfect except for normal mortality I guess you could say. No one attacked her, most people usually rather give compliments.
I'm sorry you've had these experiences, but maybe it'd be best to try and get into better groups of people that appreciate good things, and actually rather just have a calm sitdown talk with you if something is seriously wrong?
I've made it my own personal mission to try and surround myself with these kinds of people, who give praise when deserved and constructive critique, instead of just being little dickheads
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I remember i stopped drawing what I wanted for two whole fucking years and only drawing human/humanoids because people told me all of my characters were shitty and that i couldn't draw anthros at all. I was so discouraged when I was younger, that i completely stopped doing what I loved because I just wanted to show things I was passionate about; things that made me happy. And people didn't like that.
Were they bad characters? Absolutely! They were marysues, and I acknowledge that. But telling people that when they're just having fun, and enjoying themselves will literally make them not want to improve at all.
Good message, dude. Thanks you, a lot of people seem to have this elitist viewpoint, which i find absolutely disgusting.
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I'll read the main comment in a bit, but I thought I'd reply to your comment, Fern.
When I was young (also known as when this image was posted haha) I did a lot of forum roleplaying, where people had to fill out a post talking about their characters and add pictures of them. You would be instantly kicked out for having a character that is mary sue (unkillable, or over powered). Reason being that people wanted to roleplay for long and have fun, without one killjoy hopping in killing everybody or being an incredibly boring character to interact with in games like this. This was my experience with these mary sue kinds of characters, and I thought that was pretty shitty of them. Mary sue characters in literature can also be extremely boring.
However, I did make a character outside of RP that I never used for anything other than drawing it. She was pretty mary sue, but the only reason why was so that I could draw an anthro cat, with wings doing multiple different cool things for learning and fun. This is okay, cus no one gets hecked up in roleplaying right? Most of my characters today are never used in roleplay though, so I feel like I can do anything with them if I feel like it.
Basically my point is, no character is interesting in any form of literature if they are mary sue, unless they have some fun twist to them (superman, one punch man, etc). But if you make a character that is inherently mary sue, but you're not using it to "troll" other players in roleplaying, then it should be fine
Thats what I learned from this image and my childhood on here, haha.
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dude... roleplaying isn't that deep either. it's for fun. if someone makes a shitty character, who cares?? just politely decline.Β
Β I don't really care if you just don't want to RP with that person; my entire point is that I was harassed to the point of losing all passion in something I'd loved for two years? how is there... any sort of justification or excuse for that?Β
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What I meant with roleplay is that back in the days (I have no idea how it is now) it was usually a big forum post with a certain theme, and you kind of had to make a character that fit in there for the roleplay. If lets say the theme was "brawling orcs" and you made an all powerful orc mage that kills anything it touches and is indesctructable, then whats the point? Ofcourse the end result of this big RP is that he wins. And everyone else dies. RP done. Everyone else who spent time and effort making their characters and having fun just got wrecked by an asshole, haha.
However today I've seen multiple one on one RPs over chats... but idk how it is.
Now there is no justification for someone being an asshole to you. You should draw exactly what you want to, unless ofcourse you're doing commissions and you've accepted a mission which isn't your fortΓ©. If you want to draw anthros, then do that. When I was younger people pushed me to draw humans instead, which I politely said "fuck no I wanna draw doggies >:c" and so I did haha. If my family, friends or complete strangers would push me to draw anything i didn't want to draw when I was a child, I would just tell them to literally sit on a tricycle and cycle straight into hell <: (I was very bad mouthed, haha).
Point being, whatever someone else said, when it comes to drawing and painting as a hobby, and not as a professional work- type thing, then you should do it to unwind, to have fun. If someone doesn't like that, ignore them. If they don't leave you alone, block them. In my personal experience when someone said "why dont you draw -insert thing I didn't like drawing here-", then I would either be angry, or reply politely and said "because I like drawing wolves more", and then they usually said "oh ok, thats fine".
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I'm part of an RP group where an admin will turn on MS mode just to ensure things end the way she wants them to. (IE: An arc where the "city's heavily damaged, everyone's shocked but not dead" turned into "City was destroyed, but thanks to [Insert Lore Charcter here] everything's basically repaired."
The worst kind of Mary Sues are ones that show up at contrived moments.
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I wish this wasn't such a common trope in role-playing. Looking for partners... eugh.
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I've gotten to the point where Mary Sues tick me off. I find even deity characters should have flaws.
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ah man.
i really hope swiftal doesnt fall into the marysue catagory. (she has a few powers, and i dont think that's so normal.. then again, she's a stick.. cat thing who lives in a literal limbo, but still.)
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except your example of a not Mary Sue is still not a good character. She is boring and has no interesting traits or flaws about her. A Mary Sue doesn't need to be some OP character. It is just a character who has everything go right for them in a story and never has to true to get their way. They also have to be the main character. Your character can have zero powers and not be related to Vegeta, but if every time they run into a problem it gets solved for them without a struggle, then they are a Mary Sue.
What makes a Mary Sue is not the "TONS of talents and TONS of powers" it is the "NO weaknesses" part.
You can have a perfect character who is OP as all hell, but if they are faced with challenges and that actually challenge them or reveal flaws then they are not a Mary Sue - Saitama from One Punch Man for example.
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That is what I was thinking
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To be honest, I think the one on the right is more interesting in a bizarre parody sense.
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This is why I try to give my characters physical, emotional, or mental problems.
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That can also be risky sometimes. You have to figure out how to portray them in a likable way yet still make it clear they struggle. A lot of people create mentally and emotionally damaged characters that are solely based around that and use it as a way to excuse their behavior or to get sympathy. A sympathetic mary sue.
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I try to avoid using the issues as a crutch. Nura gets self-conscious about her robo-arm, Chevvn will on occasion drink herself unconscious, Clirla gets so focused on her work that she forgets to eat and sleep.
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The thing about "Mary Sue" is that it's really long become an over-used term to the point that it just means "character I don't like" instead of having any sort of meaningful definition.
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Hello, this piece is pretty old, but it's on the front page so congrats on that. I just wanted to leave my two-cents here if that's alright.
The hair on the right is better in my opinion, not because green isn't natural but because the right is better described. What shade of green? No one knows. But you know the exact shades of gold and orange in the right one, even if the description is flowery as heck. Description isn't a writing flaw.
I like this kind of picture but at the same time hate it. I think Mary-sues are alright, it's fun making a perfect character and drawing them however you want. It doesn't hurt anything and shouldn't be something worthy of bashing on or hate. But a lot of people in the art community have turned it into some kind of witch hunt. You don't have to like someone's oc, but it's their character to do with as the want. And maybe someday, they'll figure out how fun it is to make an actually balanced character.
The only real issue is with playing with other people's characters. For rp characters you need to think on the impact it has on other people's characters as well as the character you want to play, after all they can't all be perfect main characters and no one likes to be upstaged. Tone down the sparkles a little and share the spotlight.
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I just love the little things: Like how the unicorn could care less about Jasmyne, the fact that Queen Serenity and Prince Vegeta could be a couple long enough to even have a child, and that Ami turns into a cat by listening to the Meow Mix song. Overall I think it's a great picture and after doing my own research on Mary Sues I agree with this completely.
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Replace Ami's profile with Luke Skywalker's and Jasmyne's with Rey's, then show it to someone who says that "Rey's a good character"
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Is it sad that I think the Mary Sue is more interesting?
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"Mary Sue" doesn't automatically mean "bad."Β It depends on a lot of different things in the story.
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Wow the wolf is a pervΒ ( Ν‘Β° ΝΚ ( Ν‘Β° ΝΚ ( Ν‘Β° ΝΚ ( Ν‘Β° ΝΚ Ν‘Β°) ΝΚ Ν‘Β°)Κ Ν‘Β°)Κ Ν‘Β°)
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You still gotta manage not to make a character too basic either.
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Oh my god I remember seeing this like 8 years ago when I first joined dA
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