HOME | DD
windfalcon β Mary Sue - How to Tell
Published: 2004-02-25 08:27:37 +0000 UTC; Views: 430643; Favourites: 7006; Downloads: 44654
Redirect to original
Description
EDIT 3: 11/22/09 You guys are kidding me XD For goodness sakes, reaaaaad the liink here: [link] Every time I get a comment that reads "the one on the left is a Mary Sue because she has green hair and a power," I realize that they're not reading the description which contains this link: [link]tl;dr: If 'special' traits fit in with the universe, it doesn't automatically make the character a Mary Sue. What if everyone else in Ami Machida's universe has green/blue/purple hair? What if everyone else has a cat power? Does that make her a Mary Sue? Not necessarily.
Please, spare me the time from having to point you BACK to the silly description and just take a minute to read the link. You know, the one I linked to a bunch of times up above. And the link here: [link]
EDIT 2: 10/11/09 I suppose this is long overdue, but for those of you with confusion, here is an explanation on why I perceive the one on the left as not a Mary Sue: [link] For the love of god stop whining about it D:
EDIT: 6/21/09 Okay, everyone, please chill with all the 'hay is my character a mary-sue!?11" questions. I get about 3 a day now and one thing you need to understand - I AM NOT AN AUTHORITY ON MARY SUES. This picture is a parody. Just for fun. The one on the right is obviously an extreme exaggeration of a stereotype and not the definitive definition for a Mary Sue. D:
Please full view. You won't be able to read the text if you don't.
For those of you who don't know, a Mary Sue, in a nutshell, is a fanmade character that is usually extremely beautiful, powerful, smart, talented, and in plain words, perfect in every way.
These characters tend to be quite a bother in fanfiction and role playing, since they simply can't be beat, and thus become boring.
Have any of you ever been rping, and come across a character who is like, " oh, well, that planet in the way isn't a problem *blows it up*"
Or, is like, "well, Vegeta and Goten and Trunks and Goku ALL have a crush on my character"
Yep. That's a Mary Sue.
So, for people who still don't understand, I made this little picture/diagram. Usually, Mary Sues have TONS of talents and TONS of powers, and no weaknesses.
Enjoy ^_^
-Done in Copic Markers, with the background and text done on computer -
Related content
Comments: 4629
This is the perfect representation between an average OC vs a Mary Sue XDD Iβm so favoriting this XDDD
π: 0 β©: 0
Gosh, I'm so sorry for artists who are now in a completely different place with their work, but because of some broken algorithm they receive a bunch of comments for a piece they've made in 2004. Probably they can't relate to that piece anymore. I would encourage you to go to the artist main page and actually see the beautiful pieces she makes now.
π: 0 β©: 1
Thanks! I don't care about this piece at all, don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other (people are demanding I tell them whether I still support what I said in the piece or not, and literally my opinion is...I don't care). But people seem to enjoy it (and enjoy raging over it?) so I've kept it up.
π: 0 β©: 1
That's great then! All the best 
π: 0 β©: 0
while i can see the message that you were aiming for, i honestly believe that the character on the right is far more interesting design-wise than the one on the left. while the actual writing and character development behind them does push them into 'mary-sue' territory, their actual design in regards to their physical appearance and outfit is a lot better than the one on the left. the character on the right ( if we ignore the over abundance of animals ) has a nice color pallet and the outfit is unique.Β it is said beneath that she is "too beautiful" when in reality, that could be one of her flaws. she may struggle with harassment, or she may actually be antisocial and be pushed out and forced to socialize due to her royal background. it all depends on how you chose to write them. the character on the left is your average deviantart oc- green hair, odd colored eyes, wearing an outfit that many of us probably own, and is the typical clumsy nerd that is seen practically everywhere and has been majorly overdone.
even if you consider her to be a mary sue, i would much rather consume media surrounding the more interesting character on the right than the character on the left that you have created as an example of steering away from "plain jane" ocs, when in reality you have created a "plain jane" oc yourself. besides, if someone has created a 'mary sue' and it makes them happy, then what is the point in trying to convince them otherwise ? sure, some improvements can be made if you are looking to create something like a game or webcomic, but if i want to create some sort of love child abomination between all of my favorite characters just for the sake of doing it, then i dont exactly see how that is so wrong.
π: 0 β©: 0
Wow this got so high up on the front page again!Β People are leaving you so many in-depth comments too.Β What a blast from the past. XDΒ
π: 0 β©: 1
Oh man I feel bad because I'm sure they spent lots of time carefully crafting out a well-thought out argument and I'm not even reading them, at all. I don't have time to spend on a piece that's 14 years old, I have too much actual art to make!
π: 0 β©: 1
At the very least, it always gets people thinking and that's something to be proud of. It's amazing how far and wide this old silly pic has gone!
π: 0 β©: 0
Oh no, does this mean Barbie is a Mary-Sue?
π: 0 β©: 1
Yes, it does, i geussπ
π: 0 β©: 0
Anyone notice the wolfΒ
(γ€ Ν‘Β° ΝΚ Ν‘Β°)γ€
π: 0 β©: 1
Based on some things I've watched and read recently, I realized that this isn't accurate. Simply put, a Mary Sue isn't made by character design, it's in the writing.
A Mary Sue isn't a badly designed character, it's the main character of a badly written story. I've been trying to boil it down to a few bullet points. IMO, these are the traits of a Mary Sue. The more a character matches any of these descriptions, the more of a Mary Sue it is.
1. No character development/growth. The Mary Sue is always powerful, smart, or skilled enough to meet any challenge. They were always right all along, and in general never need to grow in any way. Little note: a training montage isn't enough to exclude a character from the above. That just results in the same character with more cool powers.
2. The universe bends over backwards to make them special and important. The protagonist in any story is going to be special in some way, but it should just be enough to justify the character's role and set things in motion. Obviously you can go overboard giving a character reasons to be special. Like making thier existence a perfect storm of tools and abilities and genetic heritage. (A bit of overlap with point 1 there.) Alternatively, the character may not be special in any apparent way, but yet the universe seems to revolve around them. In either case, it feels like the character in question has been singled out to an absurd degree.
3. Other characters have no depth or purpose of their own in the story. Friends that tag along and seem to have no interests besides cheering on the protagonist. Enemies without a fleshed out motive aside from stopping the hero, and the rest who are just there to fail and make the Mary Sue look more impressive by outdoing them. A Mary Sue has a flat supporting cast that don't have thier own story arcs and could be removed without changing the story much. The less other characters matter outside of interaction or comparisons to the main character, the more that central character is a Mary Sue.
π: 0 β©: 0
Lol, I love this. ^^
Although, I doubt that it's always this .O.T.T. obvious. ^^
^^ I like to try for a 1:2 ratio - that is, for every one awesome thing in a category, I try to go for two not-so-great things to balance it out. Overall, I just try to fit them in with the story without taking the limelight away from the main characters - they can share it, if need be. 
NAME: Emma
AGE: 27 (often mistaken for younger due to her height and appearance, but, has βmature eyesβ < this shouldnβt be considered Mary-Sue - I got told this, once!)
HAIR: Dark red, flipped-out bob (think similar to the USUM one for girls)
EYES: Hazel and mature
SPECIES: Reincarnation of a Demon Goddess named Ruin (this fits in with the story since we have Hylia and her Chosen Hero, a Demise < she was the partner of Demise...in this way, she can be used in a variety of Zelda titles where she struggles to help Link whilst fighting her instinct to help Ganon.
OTHER:
. Has scars on her left arm from various forms of self-harm due to her frustration of not being able to understand what she should do (silly girl, that solves nothing).
. Has the thickest eyebrows of them all!
. Often seen with most of her hair covered with a bright blue headscarf; she only takes the headscarf off when she feels comfortable with somebody.
. Needs glasses (these often come in the form of goggles) because her long-distance vision pretty much sucks...her hearing seems to compensate for it, thoughβ¦
. Has three holes pierced into each ear (so...a high pain tolerance?)
LIKES:
. Music
. Exploring
. Animals
. Twilight and night
. Treasure
. Her loved ones being happy
DISLIKES:
. Extreme temperatures
. BEES!
. Heights
. Being below ground
. Social situations (especially where she has to dress up)
. Cooking
POWERS: (Hereβs THAT part)
. Uses a magical staff to control the four elements - no staff-y, no magic-y.
. The staff converts to a bracelet when not in use, and was quite possibly made by the Sheikah.
. Excels at close-range and mid-range combat, but not long-range.
. Good at stealth and agility, but not physical offense or defense, or stamina.
. With the exception of a select few, everyone - even allies - need to be careful of some of her more reckless close-range attacks (including her).
COMPANION: A Remlit named Mia (yes, THAT Mia)
AND:
- Incredibly secretive - whilst sheβs good at hiding things, this can lead her to appear reserved and even cold towards others.
- Passive-aggressive - sheβll either shrink back from arguments or completely take it to the extreme; sheβs also very emotional.
- Self-doubting and even self-hating at times.
- Even if told not to do something, if she thinks that itβs for the best, then, sheβll just do it, even if she knows that itβs going to hurt her.
She's going to take some time to get used to being around others, since she's so used to spending time on her own...
π: 0 β©: 0
wow...
I thought that my characters don't sue,however, there are those that require URGENT CHANGES... thank you very much for a good example! I will closely follow my characters..Β Β
π: 0 β©: 0
Better example...Rey on current Star Wars movies. Doesnt get more Mary Sue than that.Β
π: 0 β©: 2
I have examples to defend her.
1. Rey was left to survive on a hostile planet, she'd have to self teach herself martial arts.....or teras kasi.....whatever Martial Arts is in Star Wars.
2. She spent most of her life taking parts away from scrapped starships so she would know some engineering.
3. Even though she is mastering The Force quickly she still had trouble resisting Kylo in Force Awakens and struggled to control the Bond Stormtrooper.
(Examples came from Cinemawins.)
π: 0 β©: 1
1. Perhaps, though she had no possible chance against a well trained Jedi ...namely Kylo. Kylo was very well trained in the arts. She had no experience at all. So I say ...No on first. She also managed to outfight others who, may I add had training as well. You watch too many martial arts movies, a true self trained Martial Artist, irl, dies quickly against a well trained one. Trust me on that. may i add it took Bruce Lee years to learn how to fight like he did. Longer than Rey was alive. I may add. Anbd by your logic and the movies plot, she was as good as Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris...Ummmm...No.
2. True, but she never flew a ship like the Falcon that was modified. So modified that only two perhaps three could even fly her correctly. So no again, she had no training in flying.Β And before you say Adakin, remember he did have training in racing and had done so many times. Even at his young age. So unlike Rey, he didnt simply get in a pd racers and race for the first time. Oh and he built it.Β
3. Right, Kylo should have destroyed her. And yet she managed to survive it. Let's be fair Kylo helped destroy Luke training centre. Where other Jedi were So no.
π: 0 β©: 0
That's totally true tho
π: 0 β©: 0
The meme that started it all
π: 0 β©: 0
Let's face it both characters are bad ^_^
π: 0 β©: 2
That is the worst critique that I've ever heard.
π: 0 β©: 2
you seem to not understand what that word is here let me help you.
I found your comment needlessly rude and aggressive it was subpar judging by it's length with little effort put into it.
I rate it a 2/10.Β
π: 0 β©: 1
dOn'T cUt yOuRsElF wItH tHaT eDgE, mR. sAlTy
π: 0 β©: 0
if the character on the left is bad then that CONFIRMS that all my oc's are disgusting lmao
π: 0 β©: 1
but I see what you mean, though
π: 0 β©: 0
Left is a boring obvious self-insert. Right is a mesh of everything that edges on ridiculousness, seems more fun.
π: 0 β©: 0
So busted out laughing at the parents.
Queen serenity was looking for younger man. XD
π: 0 β©: 0
Oh my God. I remember seeing this photo when I was way younger.. It's like nostalgic to me LOLΒ
π: 0 β©: 1
Me too!π
π: 0 β©: 0
Hehe, I really like your comparison of a typical Mary Sue with a normal character. Though I'm not a fan of Neko-jins in most stories and often find them in bad stories, at least the character is still more realistic.
π: 0 β©: 0
FATHER: Prince Vegeta
killed me with that one
π: 0 β©: 0
90% comments "Lawl faggets commenting on 2004 pics LAWL IDIETS"
10% Legit thoughts on the picture. "Mary sue is an easily interchangeable concept for 'I hate this character' so I don't agree with this picture-" "FUCK U! DIS IS OLD!"
When DA proves it's likeliness towards criticism. Constantly shooting it down and pretending that you won by copping out comments with shit excuses.Β
π: 0 β©: 1
Heh, I understand the intent, here, but I think you accidentally just made the right hand character way more hilariously interesting than the left hand character. There's a reason we all remember My Immortal.Β
π: 0 β©: 0
14 years later and this post is still correct down to the finest detail to this day
π: 0 β©: 0
(before i get hit with 'THIS IS FROM 2004 WHY ARE YOU CRITIQUING IT', i'm aware. i'm sure the artist has VASTLY improved in the last 14 fucking years. this is for the benefit of anyone looking to this as a guide on mary sues)
the left one is just as bad a character as the right, and not because of the hair or the powers. none of the weaknesses listed are...actually weaknesses or detrimental to the character in any way (with the possible exception of 'cries too much', but that is REALLY vague). they're purely cosmetic and ultimately make ami just as lacking in flaws as jasmyne is.
furthermore, ami doesn't have anything TO her character. sure, she likes drawing and going out with her friends and so on. what sets her apart from every other generic anime girl on the planet? why should i care about her in particular? if the only reason is that she has cat ears, she is not interesting or dynamic as a character.
in fact, i think this image is a pretty good example of the two extremes to avoid at all costs. don't layer ability after ability and strength after strength onto your character until they're just god in a miniskirt, but also don't strip them down to the point where they're boring and indistinguishable from 90% of other ocs.
find what makes your character unique and embrace it, but don't forget to balance it out with flaws
π: 0 β©: 2
This comparison thing was meant to be a joke making fun of Mary Sues, so there's no way that the character on the left can be as bad as the character on the right because the character on the right is meant to be so MARY SUE that it's FUNNY.Β
However, I do agree that the character on the left is not a great example of a well-developed character. Although the artist did mention some flaws (such as bad grades), but those alone did not make me care about what happens to her, because she's just an ordinary Anti-Sue OC.
It doesn't matter wether this is from 2004 or not, it's supposed to be a joke.
π: 0 β©: 1
death of the author states that the original intent of the creator should not matter when analyzing work. while obviously taking it to its logical extreme can ignore crucial context surrounding a piece, i think the fact that a massive chunk of the comments are treating this as though it's a serious guide to avoiding mary sues justifies my explanation for why it's a shit fucking guide to avoiding mary sues
and in my opinion, a flawless character with no personality outside their external traits is a mary sue regardless of how many external traits they have. that character on the right could be an incredibly engaging character that does not count as a mary sue if she had character flaws that balanced out all those external traits (and SHIT would she have to be a fucking doozy to balance out all those traits). so yes, they're both equally bad.
π: 0 β©: 2
I agree with you here. Fundamentally as a writer, all of my professors for any composition course I've taken all said the same thing:
Believable characters are often projections of what the author knows about themself and their surroundings.
There are THOUSANDS of characters who would rank high as being a Mary Sue, but are freaking AMAZEBALLS.Β
The realm of believability can't be stretched too far, that's true and just as terrible, but you also can't just make a generic character and expect it to be fabulous (I'M LOOKING AT YOU BELLA! You flat character with no development what-so-ever!)
Honestly, I find both the characters on this "guide" even if it's a joke, to fall short. Better examples could have been used.Β
π: 0 β©: 0
What I meant was that the one on the left is an Anti-Sue, not a Mary Sue. The one on the left has flaws, and as long as a character is not flawless, then it can't be considered as a Mary Sue. I believe that Anti-Sue fits her better, because she does not have any defining features or abilities (except for her ears and her ability to turn into a cat) that makes someone care about her as a character. An Anti-Sue can be EQUALLY as bad as a Mary Sue, and I agree that they're both equally bad - just in different ways.
π: 0 β©: 1
again, those really aren't flaws. for a trait to be a flaw, it has to actually pose an obstruction to your character's journey. being bad at math or being clumsy will not provide your character with enough conflict to avoid sueness.
now, you can definitely make real flaws that LEAD to those cosmetic flaws! maybe they're clumsy and bad at math because they're absent-minded and don't really take in their surroundings, and conflict arises when they don't notice something like, say, them harming another person. or maybe they're clumsy and bad at math and cry easy because they're horribly insecure and constantly doubt themselves and their abilities. the list goes on as far as your imagination does
but they're not real flaws in of themselves
π: 0 β©: 1
Exactly, characters who are chucked full of flaws that aren't real (such as crying too much and being bad at math, as you mentioned) but do not have any positive traits are considered as Anti-Sues, NOT Mary Sues. If a character cries too much and gets below average grades but doesn't have any solid feature that makes them stand out from dull and boring characters are Anti-Sues.
And again, Anti-Sues can be just as bad as Mary Sues.
π: 0 β©: 1
...are you just arguing semantics here? anti-sues are a SUBtype of mary sues (and really, anti-sue is more usually defined as the villainous equivalent to a mary sue rather than a blank generic character but i digress).
π: 0 β©: 1
I suppose I am, and there's nothing wrong with arguing semantics.
I agree with you, the character on the left IS just as bad as the character on the right.
Here's the definition of an Anti-SueοΌ
The exact opposite of a Mary-Sue or a Gary-Stu. This is a character in a book or fanfiction that is stricken by unfathomable misfortune and horrible characteristics, so much so that the entire story becomes depressing and/or unrealistic.
The character on the left is not the BEST example of an Anti-Sue, but she certainly have some qualities of one.
π: 0 β©: 0
Oh dude. Prepare for bombardment of peeps who can't draw telling you, your criticism is wrong because this picture is old.
But I agree absolutely if that means anything.
π: 0 β©: 1
<= Prev | | Next =>