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XaliberDeathlock — Communism Conception
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Published: 2008-10-28 12:01:10 +0000 UTC; Views: 15799; Favourites: 30; Downloads: 7677
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Beforehand, I would like to tell that I am no communist myself, I'm just studying political ideologies.
"God and religion inside communists' sickle? Are you insane?!"No, I am not. Communism teaching does not reject god, though I do not deny some its followers do reject him. Darwinism-evolution-atheism are also not related with communism, unlike that-notorious-so-scientific-pseudoscientist said.
My point here is to clarify that misperception, thus this art appear.
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Done in Photoshop CS 3.
Full-screen view please.
Ah yes, my first on text-art.
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Comments: 78
When you think about it the Protestant church would work quite well with communism.
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I'm pretty sure the Soviet Union had State Atheism as it's official religion
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When religion is allongside government, both shall fail in their true purpose.
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"Communism teaching does not reject god"
Lol wut?
"Religion is the opiate of the people" -Karl Marx
Communism and religion cann't coexist together. In a communist state the dictator(Stalin, Mao, ect.) is hostile to the worship of God because he himself wants his people to worship him as a God. Instead of the Bible its now the Communist Manifesto and so on. Communism is an atheistic religion.
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Whoops, typo, I'm sorry.
`as Russell stated, they those inhumanity not in the name of atheism`
should be
`as Russel stated, those inhumanity are not in the name of atheism`
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This thing was made quite long time ago, so I acknowledge there must be some kind of misinterpretation of Communism by myself.
First, we have to differentiate between the thought of Marx & Engels (as the conceiver of the original thought) with the Communist dictators (as the later interpreter).
Marx did say "religion is the opiate of the people", but we should not take this as a posit that he is against God. He is against religion (because he thought religion is a tool used by bourgeois to oppress the working class by giving them an illusion of eternal happiness a.k.a. heaven), but there is no indication that he is against God or wanted to be God. If he wanted people to worship him as a God, then it would be contradictory; as Marx demands no hierarchy (God - servant relationship would be just like bourgeois - proletariat relationship where one serves another).
While the later interpreters (Lenin, Stalin, Mao and others) used Marx's statement to justify their deeds to the believers. They themselves are indeed atheists, but, as Russell stated, they those inhumanity not in the name of atheism, but in the name of "dogmatic Communism". And by "dogmatic", that means their "literal interpretation" of Marx's statement. By the idea of seeing religion as an opiate, they thought they have to abolish not only religion, but also the God (I mean, by the promotion of atheism) and even the believers. But all those are meant only to preserve their political power.
So, should I say, the original Marxism--that is, the one thought by Marx--says nothing about murdering believers or even wanting people to worship Marx as God. While the later interpreters, especially the Russian version (Stalin & Lenin), are more hostile to believers to preserve political power.
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While you are right that anti-religious doesn't mean anti-theism, communist goverments were not just anti-religious they were atheistic.(state atheism)
Marx was atheist everyone knows that. He was ethicly Jewish and raised Christian but turned atheist the Origin of Species.
But isn't dogmatic Communism just a political atheistic religion?
Marx-Prophet
Dictator(Stalin, Mao, ect.)-God
Communist Manifesto-Holy Book(Bible, Quran, ect.)
Communist party-Religious organization
They even persured Lenin's, Stalin's, and Mao's bodys were they are worshiped like secular saints.
Yes but if Marx had never lived Stalin and Lenin wouldn't have been atheists. It was the Communist Manifesto that turned them atheist. Marx's veiws helped turn them into to the dictators that they were.
If there is one thing we can agree on is that communism doesn't work. In capitalist soceity atheist and believers can worship freely.
P.S. Do you believe in God?
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Yes, I do not doubt that several communist governments promote state atheism. But, the government is not ideology. I'm not talking about how the ideology applies in political sphere, but how the ideology applies in itself; in abstract realm. That is, "does the ideology promote atheism?"
I would like to say, "not really." As far as I know, as an ideology Communism--and by this I mean Marxism, the original one--does not promote atheism.
We can't blame Marx on how Lenin, Stalin, or Mao interpret his writing. It's like blaming certain religion because some radical interpreted it in certain way. Yes, Marxism did inspire Lenin to cast Bolshevik Revolution, but, like any other set of ideas, it is open to interpretation. So if we were to blame, it is those later interpreters (Lenin and friends) who is to be blamed.
A hundred percent communist state (not communism) may not work. But the idea of which still worth examining. We have to remember that socialism--which roots in Marxism--does help promote the idea of Liberation Theology in Latin America; and they succeed. And while we're on this, I don't think it needs "a capitalist society" to let believers and atheists worship freely--as long as there is religious freedom, it is possible to do so, because democratic or capitalist state does not guarantee that kind of human rights.
P.S. Yes, I believe in God, and I'm no communist either.
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Your right. Marx didn't promote atheism but his communist successors(Lenin, Stalin, Mao, ect.) did. But they didn't become atheist till reading Marx's Communist Manifesto.
"But the idea of which still worth examining."
How many more people need to die though?
Communism already killed like 200 million people. How many people need to die before we perfected it?
Well I believe in helping out the poor and that stuff because I'm influenced by my Judeo Christian beliefs because I'm a humanist. Socialism leads to state controling everything. I support limited government control over the econemy and the state.
What capitalist countries are you talking about? 
You and me both.
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Where did you read that they become atheist when they read the Communist Manifesto? I'm not sure about Lenin and Mao, but Stalin only adopted Lenin's thoughts.
And, I beg to differ, Communism did not kill million people. As I have already said, you can't blame the ideology; if you examine it carefully, Communism does not state anything about murdering believers. It is Lenin, Stalin, and Mao who are to be blamed. It is their thoughts, not the Communism.
You have to know, Communism--in this case, Marxism--is not a mere political ideology which manifestation can only be seen through state and government actions. It is a framework; a set of ideas which, we have to accept, help build the foundation of political analysis and theories. The idea of "class struggle" helps in determining what sort of conflict is happening in analyzing countries on comparative politics.
I disagree with Lenin and friends' state atheism, but I'm not against Communism. Again, because it is their (Lenin and friends) interpretation that went wrong.
As for the capitalist country, for example there is Malaysia. It is capitalist (as scaled by its economic system), but its religious freedom is doubtable. The same also applies for Colombia and Indonesia--while constitutionally the state does allow religious freedom, discrimination from the majority cannot be hindered, especially for the atheists.
Because "capitalist country" is an indicator of economic system, I guess it cannot be measured for social and/or religious freedom.
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Stalin would have been Georgian Orthodox priest, Lenin would haven been Russian Orthodox, and Mao a Budduist. All claim to have turned atheist after reading the Communist Manifesto and being influenced by atheistic communists such as Marx and Engles.
"you can't blame the ideology"
So I guess I can't blame the National Socialist ideology for killing Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, gypsies, ect? I guess Hitler wasn't a true National Socialist and that one day there will be a true National Socialist country. Thats your argument.
Marx wrote about assimilating Germany's eastern neighbors. He wrote that before National Socalism was even thought of. Marxism ideology isn't free of mass murder.
One of my main beefs with communism is that it is you have to follow Marx and adopot it to your country. Why can't people come up with there own form of communism outside Marx?
In a developed capitailist country (such as the USA) there is relilious freedom. Malaysia, Colombia, and Indonesia are countires that hold some characteristics of a developed country but are not fully developed in terms of econemy and freedom. Eventually they will reach out statue. The more developed a countrie becomes the more free it gets.
This is a really intresting disscution.
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very good work! i am a marxist and i bielieve in god but eveyone that knows it says im a hypicrite, but noone listens when i explain!
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Can you really blame them? Communism hasn't really shown too much love toward God.State atheism
I think that any communist who believes in God is even crazier then a atheist communist.
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While it is true that prominent communist dictators we know promote such agenda (state atheism), there are several other communists, whose names might we are not familiar of, who don't really hate religion (or God in this case) that much.
To mention some, Thomas Haggerty and Haji Misbach.
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But you have to agree that the vast majority of communist were atheist and that it was in the ideology. Just becuase there are a couple of people who don't hate religion/God doesn't mean it represents the whole movement.
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Well... I can't say "the vast majority of communist were atheist", because I don't have the data to say so. Moreover, many Marxists on my country came from religious background--and they are also religious. So I can't say that communists are exactly atheists.
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Over 50% of Russian Communists were atheists. I don't know about the other <50%.
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But Communists are not limited in Russia.
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Lol yes communism is an international thing it has been show that the majority of communists are atheists and promote state atheism. All communist countires were hostiale towards religion. So if there were religious communists why didn't they speak out againist this in there country? I rest my case.
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I'm a Communist and I beleave, in my own way.
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I understand. Perhaps people are still in traumatic period after what Lenin and Stalin have done in Soviet... quite a misfortune for the Leftist here. :/
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It's been said before, but actually true Marxism does reject all forms of religion only because it has been used to manipulate the public by their government. (e.g, Salem Witch Trials, Shurreal Law, etc.)
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Yes, Marx himself despised religion for its nature, but did Marx personal views was really the factor which bases Marxism to reject religions?
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Actual, communism stresses loyalty to the state of families and God.
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I think it depends.
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Okay, every single communist state ever set up has done that. I suppose its not required...
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Thank you comrade.
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halo comrade..
komunis itu religius kok..
banyak hal2 yg diajarin komunis sesuai dgn kitab suci..
hmm..cuma 1 pertanyaan gw :
"apakah komunis itu paling berdosa di indonesia?"
bagaimana dgn dosa2 orde baru, seperti pembantaian di p. buru dll
serta dosa2 aksi terorisme oleh kaum radikal religius?
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Wah, kok komen ini nggak ada di message. 
Yep, komunisme sendiri nggak mesti bertentangan dengan agama. Justru dulu sempat populer kyai-sosialis kan.
Mungkin komunisme bisa dapat dosa sedemikian beratnya di Indonesia karena mereka sempat membantai umat relijius... yang mana kejadian tersebut dieksploitasi melalui film G 30 S PKI. :/
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yoi..
Komunis memberontak (which is much complicated than what us all seen on movie/historical books)..
tapii.. setelahnya.. jutaan orang yg "dituduh komunis" justru dibantai oleh kaum religius..
nah lho..
mana yg lbh dosa!?
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Yah... akibat generalisasi itu. :/ Akibatnya ideologi komunisme jadi terkesan sebegitu buruknya.
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Lha ane juga belum belajar.
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rangkaian tulisannya....sepertinya melambangkan sebuah simbol
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seperti sabit...hmmm... simbol komunis?
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Yup.
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Yang tulisan "RELIGION", jarak antar hurufnya agak kejauhan. Jadi gambar aritnya kurang jelas...
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Hidup.
Pinjam bukunya dong. Saya belum sempat ke Gramed nih.
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