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Xiao-Fury β Debunking Faith Alone-Comic One
Published: 2013-07-02 01:34:56 +0000 UTC; Views: 1174; Favourites: 5; Downloads: 1
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I know, I know. WHAT ABOUT ROMANS 4?!4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. The 'works' that Paul makes mention of in these particular passages pertain to works of the LAW. An example is seen in Romans 4:9-14. If you are doing works of the LAW or works not of faith, then the works are man-glory. Yes, Abraham believed the Lord by having faith---which is step one, but James 2:21-24 clearly explains how faith operates and James explains Abraham's deed:
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The bible even says that faith only does not work, yet people somehow decided that God's word was wrong to say that.
Faith alone derived from the reformed theologies. I believe that Lutheranism caters to this belief among others, but 'faith alone' has crept into non-denominational churches as well. More debunking coming your way soon! Stay tuned!
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Comments: 30
While I believe faith on its own is sufficient enough to save someone (that gives people a chance even at their deathbeds), I do agree that faith without works is sort of dead indeed, especially when one is capable of doing works. Faith brings about a love for God and so brings about the desire to obey Him. Works do not save us, but works inspired by faith please Him.
Basically, we are not saved because we do works, but we do works because we are saved.
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I do not understand this comic. Could you explain?
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this comment below explains it well comments.deviantart.com/1/3822β¦
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So...basically I trust God and he gives hats? OKAY!
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What?! Oh who I'm I kidding. People can outsmart me.
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Well, it's being deleted.
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No, it means I don't put up with people derailing my comment section with their hissy fit religious rants. Be gone.
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Sadly, I cant support that story.
I just cant worship a god that demands such a sacrifice.
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Read it all. All of Genesis 22, and it'll make sense.
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I have. I still see no justification. I still see it as sickening that Abraham wouldve done it to his own child just to prove his loyalty had an angel of the Lord not stopped him.
And why was it an angel of God that stopped him and not God himself, the one who gave Abraham such a test in the first place? I'm thinking there might be more to the story, because I see no justified moral.
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The Lord had the angel to stop him.
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
The meaning of the sacrifice was symbolic to how God would sacrifice His son (Jesus) so that we may obtain life ever lasting, upon being born again. Sure it was the ultimate test of faith, but the Lord tried Abraham on purpose. He knew Abraham's faith and how great it was. I'm sure Abraham was probably perplexed, but God is not the author of confusion. There is more to the story; all I know is that Abraham was blessed greatly and so was Isaac.
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That doesnt answer my question. And I told you I already read the scripture, you dont need to repeat it to me. Why would God need to send Zadkiel in his place to stop Abraham from murdering his son when he himself gave the order?
And like I said, I see no justification to murder your own flesh and blood as a test to prove your own loyalty. If anything, I see it as an antithesis to a moral. Think about it. If you yourself gave someone the order to kill their own child to prove their loyalty to you, would you be proud or ashamed that this person would actually do it?
I hope there's more to the story, cuz I cant brush this scripture off.
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some people think God was also trolling.
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I'm sure you do, but I like to quote scripture for clarification. Abraham was obedient to God's command. The angel didn't act on his own when he stopped Abraham. The angel came once Abraham proved his faith.
It was tough request, but no one was murdered though. I can't say how I would feel or what I would do if God told me to do that. It was a test of faith, and symbolic to Christ's sacrifice. I can get more information on it, but in the mean time...there's a internet you can research on.
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Real faith begets actions of faith. Otherwise, it is a shallow belief in nothing. I have to ask which translation you're using. Because that is not what the book of James actually says.
Here's the same passage from a different translation:
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, βGo in peace; keep warm and well fed,β but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, βYou have faith; I have deeds.β
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatβand shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, βAbraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,β and he was called Godβs friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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Also, you're confusing the Means of Grace and the Measures of Sincerity.
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I used KJV, but it basically says the same thing.
A person can have all the faith, yet do nothing with it. It is dead faith when you do no works with it. This is what the comic illutrates and this is what James 2:21-24 says.
Let's make it clear: NOT WORKS OF THE LAW.
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I was about to say...Ephesians 2:8-9 would be the counterpoint, were it not for your clarification. Faith alone saves you, but faith, if it's real, begets works. If you don't act on your faith, do you really have it?
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Yes. Many people have faith, but lack obedience. Faith alone in a nutshell is a lack of obedience to do the works of faith.
The Word says be a doer and not just a hearer of the Word. With faith alone, any command is hard for them to do.
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If you have faith as small as a mustard seed...but it's got to be real faith, and faith in the One the Father has sent. That is the work of God, "to believe in the One He has sent." If you've got that, works just come naturally. 
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No...we don't.
We're not robots. We have a will to act on our own. We can be disobedient or obedient to Christ. Works DO NOT just come naturally.
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...I wasn't implying that. But if your faith doesn't produce works, you're either not using it right, or it's not really there.
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Works of faith do not come naturally. There is an obedience factor. I will admit that I've missed plenty of opportunities to be obedient to God. I had the faith, but lacked the will to DO (or work).
I want to make sure that we are on the same page here. Do you believe in faith alone or faith wrought with works?
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I believe that I am saved by faith alone. I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised Him from the dead. I have faith in His finished work that paid the price for my sins. In that is my hope of salvation. That is the work of God, "to believe in the One He has sent," as Jesus said. I have been saved "through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
That said, Jesus had stern warnings for those whose so-called faith did not produce fruit. The servant with the single talent did nothing with what he had and was certainly not rewarded for it. And every branch that does not produce fruit is cut off. So if you claim you have faith in Jesus but don't do anything with it, do you really have faith? Isn't that almost like denying Christ before men?
You're right to say that faith does not produce works without obedience, but faith enables obedience. In your comic above, where Abraham hears the word of God, if he has faith in God, why does he not do what his God asks of him, trusting that whatever it is God is right? It was this faith for which Abraham was commended in Hebrews 11, after all. So the comic almost doesn't make sense to me, because it seems more like God's words went in one of Abraham's ears and out the other. Was he too timid to rise and do what God asked of him? Where was his faith?
So what is faith? Faith is "is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Faith is what you must have to do any of the works which God prepared in advance for you to do. Faith requires an act of will, for it really doesn't come naturally (except through practice, as most things).
And when you have faith, it is much easier to obey...which is good, for God desires obedience, not sacrifice.
So I still believe we're on the same page here. Faith without works is dead/no faith at all, and works without faith in the One who has the real power behind them are powerless. I'd be the last one ever to argue for an "idle" Christianity, one that sits around hopeful all day, because that's not really a faith-filled life, nor is it obedient to Jesus' last commandment to his disciples.
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We're almost on the same page.
When you admit to faith alone, here is where the confusion begins. The comic illustrates exactly what you asked: Abraham HAD THE FAITH to listen to God, but he failed to DO the faith. People argue that it was Abraham's faith ALONE, but the book of James clearly EXPLAINS how faith operates and that it was not faith along, but faith wrought with works...NOT works of the law!
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
In this case, Abraham is only a hearer of the Word, and not a doer, "22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves" (James 1:22). Some people DO have faith, but they will not do any work on the grounds that they believe that the works are of the law or just for good deed doing. This is a misunderstanding and sheer disobedience to God's commandments.
Those who don't have faith AT ALL have either never heard the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing the Word (Romans 10:17), but what this comic illustrates is one who has faith, yet refuses to operate on it. Yes, it happens because we are not robots and even while we are full of faith, we can still act out in disobedience. We're talking about saints of God, not unbelievers.
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Agreed. I've actually never even heard of any believers who flat-out refuse to do good works on those grounds, though I think if I met any I'd say pretty much exactly what you say there. Refusing to do what Jesus himself commanded us to do ("Feed My lambs") is pretty much straight-up disobedience. []
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The confusion is linked to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church do good deeds and work to earn salvation, but their perspective is wrong. (Acts 2:38, John 3:3). The catholic church started infant baptism as a fast way to save souls, but we know that an infant is too young to know what sin is, or to even confess for that matter. Second, the catholic church LITERALLY believes that by doing a bunch of good deeds (like feeding the poor), they will go to Heaven. This is not what I am talking about when I say 'maintain salvation'. The only work that we must do to earn our salvation is by faith wrought with work(see the scriptures); after we are saved, we must maintain our salvation. Check out the scriptures below.
Hebrews 3:12-13, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
Here is when Romans 10:9 comes in handy. Repenting is an act of faith wrought with work...all that we Christians do should be faith with works. Sadly, a lot of people think that water baptism isn't a requirement with salvation solely on the grounds of what the Catholic church believes---or that what it appears to be. Protestants were suppose to be folks who broke off from the Catholic Church, but it seems like the Catholic church still have them in their grasp with this belief.
This is why I am hammering faith alone because it is not true.
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