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MK46ASROC In reply to Winter-Waltz [2018-01-06 07:14:29 +0000 UTC]

lol johnlock all the way.

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Wistful-Butterfly In reply to kokoro13 [2013-09-26 21:46:23 +0000 UTC]

For boring women to relate to? I absolutely cannot agree. Both Irene and Molly are exceptionally strong characters, and yees, Molly does have her jumpers and cats, but she has to deal with Sherlock Holmes, has the patience of a saint, has a position as a pathologist in a highly competitive area - I would love to be as accomplished as Molly Hooper.

And this is an absolutely gorgeous painting.

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kokoro13 In reply to Wistful-Butterfly [2013-09-26 23:07:44 +0000 UTC]

I didn't say anything about the quality of the artistry, obvious she's a great artist. But you're making leaps and bounds about her character based on nothing. 

She doesn't 'have to deal' with Sherlock; she's almost completely unnecessary in the scenes she contrives to be a part of. She allows him to exploit her position as a pathology LAB ASSISTANT (not a pathologist); that is not being patient. That's letting someone use you. He would barely acknowledge her if she didn't continuously ask him stupid questions and try to get his attention. That's not "having to deal" with someone, that's actively scrabbling for their notice and making them deal with you.

She's also not remotely as strong a character as Irene; for one thing, she's not part of the books and was only intended to be in the pilot. She's in the show because unfortunately, there are literally millions of weak, delusional women out there so convinced of their own sweetness and likability that they can't see how obvious they're being about their misplaced crushes. 

What I can't stand is how she accuses Sherlock of being cruel, when that's very obvious about him and she signs up for it by chasing after him, even though he's clearly not interested and they having nothing in common. She's a simpering, whiny girl who dates one guy to get another guys attention and then bitches when he gets impatient with her clumsy transparency. Women who do this crap embarrass me; they make us all look like self-absorbed victims. There is a kind of self-absorbtion that masquerades as affection; these people SAY they care, but don't actually pay attention to the object of their supposed affection's feelings, and only really care about their own feelings for the person, continuing to pursue despite being a manipulative nuisance. It's not just women; tons of guys do this too. Molly Hooper is a perfect example of this kind of self-absorption. 

Irene, on the other hand, is never a victim. She's smart, confident, and can recognize attraction even in an inscrutable like Sherlock. She's also not obvious about her own feelings. He literally had to check her pulse to confirm she felt something for him. You could see Molly Hooper's cogs turning from space. If offends me that people consider her an everywoman; I never have and never will be represented by such a weak, transparent character. (To be clear, I have no problem with the actress, or even the way she's written. Only how women who do the same self-pitying manipulative crap glorify her as some kind of heroine, which is what women like that do for themselves even while being a complete pain in the ass)

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Wistful-Butterfly In reply to kokoro13 [2013-09-27 00:52:05 +0000 UTC]

Oh, sorry, no - I didn't mean anything in terms of you said something about the artistry. I honestly just meant that the painting was lovely (and it really is)  on a side note.

Molly is actually a pathologist. It is never directly said so in the episodes, but if you research, considering the resources Molly has available to her and what she actually does post-mortems on the show, she couldn't just be a lab assistant legally in the UK - she has to be a pathologist. If you google it, it does say so. And to expand on that, like I said before, the medical area of things is extremely competitive, and she could not have gotten her position without fighting for it. Not literally fighting, but she would have to excellent in her studies and demonstrated a trustworthy character. She would have had to studies for years and worked her way up to this position, and you can't do that without really trying. And even after that, she's always under pressure as a single mistake could have the evidence be considered unusable in court. You've got to be good at what you do or you're gone.

It is true that she allows Sherlock to use her, and that really wasn't the best thing ever for her to do. She allows him to flatter her and manipulate her into doing these things, and she really shouldn't have. I do agree with you on that, but I still think even letting someone use you like that takes patience.

She isn't really chasing him. Not actively. We only see two attempts from her - coffee at the very beginning and Christmas party at Baker Street. And she isn't exactly accusing Sherlock of being cruel. He is cruel. He's brilliant and amazing and I absolutely adore him, but he is cruel. He manipulates people, and he is quite aware of Molly's affections. He insults her repeatedly, but he does respect her professionally, just not as a friend. He can barely tolerate working with Sergeant Donovan and Anderson - both of which could not have progressed up Scotland Yard's ranks without considerable effort and being good at what they did - but he frequently works with Molly, and he knows she is good at what she does. She isn't whiny at all, and I think in a situation like Christmas, I could understand. Really, from the audience's point of view, that was really the only time she stood up to him. Letting him use her was inexcusable, but there is blame on both sides for that.

Molly does make mistakes. A lot of mistakes. Moriarty was a prime example. Yes, she certainly should not have tried to use him to get to Sherlock. Yes, she shouldn't have tolerated Sherlock's antics. But all in all, I think she is a strong character. I don't like the weak, female stereotype of hopeless-in-love, but Molly Hooper is not in love. She fancies a handosme detective who can do the impossible, and she can't get away from that because he is in her everyday life. She isn't hopelessly in love at all. Like Irene, Molly is smart and confident at her work. Whether she counts or not, only Sherlock can say, but she is certainly strong and professional and she has values.

Irene is really one of my favorite characters as well. I love her character and how absolutely brilliant she was, but I dislike how the episode gave the impression that she was only a pawn in Moiarty's plans even though I'm disinclined to believe that. I just think that they're both equally strong. Irene might be a dominatrix with the government on one hand, but Molly is a good doctor and, from what I've seen, a good person. I definitely agree that the whole glorifying, self-pity, whining is ridiculous, but I don't think Molly applies to this at all.

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imke14 In reply to Exerionz [2013-07-27 16:34:10 +0000 UTC]

if you'd read you would've seen that IS sherlock

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