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AtheosEmanon — Adoption will NOT solve the abortion problem
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Published: 2012-08-15 05:35:47 +0000 UTC; Views: 11028; Favourites: 154; Downloads: 11
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Numbers are accurate as of August 15, 2012 when this was postedA common Anti-choice aka Pro-life Argument is that every person who has an abortion is selfish and just should give them up for adoption because we can adopt out all of the fetuses that are aborted...
Let us look at the numbers, shall we?
Average numbers of abortions per year in America: 1 million plus
www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_ind…
www.abort73.com/abortion_facts…
-abortion 73 is an anti-Abortion site, I figured if this has similar numbers to the other site no one would claim that it is biased towards pro-choicers …
Average number of adoptions per year in America: 122,000
According to the Administration for Children & Families
www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/st…
This of course is on top of the 400,540 that are currently in foster care system according to the Administration for Children and Families
www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/st…
As well as the 150K kids that enter the system every year permanently [the system gets 450-600k+ kids enter the foster care system every year, the bulk of these children do eventually return home after a short period of time in the system; yet 150K of them are never returned home and stay in the system:
Administration for Children & Families: www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/st…
Children Rights website: www.childrensrights.org/issues…
^^Looking at just this, NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THE 400k PLUS CURRENTLY IN THE SYSTEM, if you just look at the 150K + kids who go into the system permanently EACH YEAR, vs the number of kids who are adopted out EACH year [122K], that is still a net positive number of over 28,000 kids that will go into the system and stay each year even after you deduct the number of adoptions.
While not all, many “pro life” people love to demonize people who believe a woman should have the choice as pro-abortion, which could not be further from the truth. I do not know anyone who is pro abortion in a serious way of KILL ALL FETUSES, NO MATTER WHAT. On the contrary, I believe that something should be done to decrease the numbers of unwanted pregnancies, not just abortions.
For me, I believe education is the key to all things on this.
What is it that we know? Schools that have an in depth sex education course in their curriculum, after a few years of the program being implemented had a decrease in teen pregnancy, as well as a rise on the average age that the kids have sex, [meaning both males and females wait just a bit longer before having sex]
www.plannedparenthood.org/file…
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/…
www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Tee…
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/…
I am not just speaking of sex education because what else do we know, in America? In general the more intelligent a person is, the more likely they are to family plan, as well as the more intelligent a person is in general the least amount of kids they will likely have.
www.asanet.org/press/20100223/…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilit…
Everyone knows that as many of my written pieces in my gallery, suggest that education is the all to end all to address pretty much everything from decreasing number of unwanted pregnancies, to of course strengthening the education system, to decrease the number of people on welfare, as well as prison… it is a core part but is not the only part with respect to welfare and prison reform of which I may do a piece later on that.
I am not saying I am anti-adoption, in fact I believe we should try to make it easier to adopt people, by …hiring more case agents, which would lessen the case load of each agent allowing for them to do more home checks, background checks on potential parents etc
So, the point of this stamp was to somewhat comment on the other stamps that I see on here saying, ADOPT NOT ABORT!!!, where they premise their argument as if adoption will solve our abortion problem which it will not.
Let us look at facts, as previously stated we have 150K+ kids who go into the foster care permanently each year, meaning they will never return home.
We adopt out 122K kids on average..
That alone is a Net Positive of 28,000
Now, using the number above that America average 1,000,000 abortions per year.
Let us say 25% of these women chose to give their babies up for adoption [I am being modest here since I believe if abortion were illegal the real number would be around 50% ..or 500K]
Okay so that is an addition 250,000 kids that will be placed into the foster system every year so a net positive of 278,000 kids that will be in the foster care system
As well as, for many pro life people, not all, but many I see tend to be very conservative and believe we should strip the welfare program, these people are lazy but if you outlaw abortion, that will be an addition 750K kids, mostly to poor and low income people who will in turn, more than likely go on welfare… so I fail to see how this solves the problem.
The solution is not JUST how can we make the adopting process easier, it is also how do we decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies, which would include … better access to birth control for men AND women, so the pill, condoms, etc etc, and an in depth sex education class
Do you not find it a bit odd that the state, Texas, which has stripped an in depth sex education course from its Junior High School and High School curriculum has one of the fastest rising teen pregnancy rates? …. Oops. And Texas also accounts for nearly 9% of all abortions in America … double oops.
www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/t…
of 579,700 women who got pregnant in that last study only a few years ago, 15% got abortions, meaning 86,955 abortions in Texas alone… so nearly 9% of all abortions for that year and if you look at these links:
www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/t…
www.dshs.state.tx.us/chs/vstat…
So, the question remains, will we, the people, ensure that there are in depth sex education classes in schools or will we say this does not work even though we know that it does decrease pregnancy rates, and by extension abortion rates.
… though even for the teens or parents who are against abortion, decreasing pregnancy rates, which also by extension decrease the number of teens who have babies and go on welfare… so while adoption will not solve the problem with abortion… the only way to solve the issue of abortion is doing what we know decreases abortion rates.
For me the issue at hand which is more important, is pro-quality of-life. What I generally hear from many pro-lifers is OH JUST LET THE FETUS BE BROUGHT TO TERM!!! ADOPTION.. while they look at underfunded foster care system, with under paid case agents that are trying their hardest… or when the woman does have the baby and keep it, and may need some assistance they demonize her saying, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE BABY IF YOU COULD NOT TAKE CARE OF IT!!!!! .. or wish to cut programs to help such people, yes, welfare is what I am speaking of. Many of the new cases, are low income, women with newborn babies.
For the record, I am not anti, women on welfare, those who I speak with often know that I have some things I believe should be reformed in the welfare system to better the woman, get her more work ready etc but am not against the program in a general sense.
Here are my views on abortion in a generalized sense
Abortion pieces:
[main piece] Abortion: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Stamps have same writing but two different stamps
Abortion stamp 1: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Abortion stamp 2: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Let knowledge be that truth, which portrays humanity, condemns malevolence; that respects the differences in others while abandoning the hatred and misconceptions of the past.
-Emanon
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Comments: 412
.. You see our government, highest uninsured rate in the Western industrial nation.. we went from being in the top 5 in reading, math and science to now in the upper 20s to lower 30s .. We need to get our own house in order before thinking we can build the empire.
The youth are the future.. as they often are.
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you have family in israel? so are you jewish?
AIPAC lobbies like hell, almost every senator in there is bribed by AIPAC
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I have family in Israel, family in Palestine...
Am I Jewish? religious? No. Ethnically partial.
My Grandfather on my mother's side had a German Jewish mother, and a father with Russian-Irish ancestry so that made my grandfather [who was a practicing Jew] had Russian, German, Irish and Jewish ancestry .. he then met my grandmother who was Native American and Black..
To which had my mother of course of which my ethnic background is Russian, German, Jewish, Irish, Native American [Cherokee] and Black..
... well I fault not AIPAC but the Senators.. if you are a lobbyist your goal is to try and get money to and from anyone who will listen to you .. that is the job of a lobbyist, so I cannot fault them for doing their job.. but faults congress and the President for not holding Israel accountable when they do wrong
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well i was just curious of your nationality. Im of black ,irish, and native american ancestry. But you seem to be a mixed pie, arent ya?
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Oh, my apologies. My nationality, I am an American.
Now, the [Jewish, Irish, Russian, German, Cherokee and Black] are what I know about. But as you know... centuries of slavery who knows if Massa got into the bloodline anytime during that time in which perhaps I would have English blood as well.
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hell dude this is america, most of us are mixed one way or another
and i didnt mean nationality, my bad. I know you are american, it says it on your profile lol
I should have said ethnicity
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Very true.
ah, then yeah on the ethnic front I am very mixed as you can see lmao
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Pro-life makes NO sense to me!!! Why protect someone elses fetus (collection of cells, which is not alive)? Either the baby is born and has a bad life and mom has trouble too or they both die. It makes much more sense to be pro-choice. The fetus won't notice when it's gone and the mom can continue her life as normal.
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I agree, that they need to worry more about the value of lives of those already which is not in the best of shape in our foster care systems rather than just worrying about fetuses and once born do not seem to take as much of an interest in it.
.. this was posted in in Mid 2012 using full year numbers from 2011.. Perhaps I will try to look up 2014 numbers for all of the numbers cited to see if anything has changed.
thanks for all of the faves
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lots of pro lifers love abortion which makes me fucking mad
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That's because they want to have a little bit of control over everyone elses bodies but they don't want to suffer themselves...
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I have seen a few on tv who admit to having had several abortions and yet ... are pro life so eh ..
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question are you pro-life
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Is that a question or are you saying they question if you are pro-life?
It was very unclear.
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I wanna know if you are pro life
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I am pro quality of life - I have always found prolife and pro choice to be misnomers ..one can be "pro life" and yet support the death penalty hm ..and one can be "pro choice" which says very little in a general claim without context.
one is either against abortion legalization,or think it should be legalized. In which case I am in the camp that think it should remain legalized.
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Well Guess I started a new one Anti-ProLife Basically against the Pro-Life out look on life I feel Pro Lifers and not compatible with happiness at all
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I find it a bit funny that many of the "prolife" people I debate are very much in favor of the death penalty hm which makes no sense.
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I know Pro-Life to me is Pro-Death
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Pro life are usually just against abortion.. If they are truly pro life, and say they are against the abortion, the death penalty and unless in the most extreme circumstances aka a last resort war then I would consider them pro life.. many are simply against abortion.
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All the ones I met are the opposite of what saying them to be so I guess they ain't pro-life
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Yup, they tend to be, as stated, just against abortion - - most of those I have debated are absolutist in they are against it always .. then you have those that make exceptions for rape and incest - - I guess those fetuses are worth less in their eyes,.
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They say Fetuses are not alive and they are basically assholes all the ones I met
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lmao, well the anus is the first thing to form on a fetus and we all start off female
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lmao, what face is that?
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So I agree with you that we should try to lower the number of unplanned pregnancies. I think if we shut down certain clubs and ban certain magazines, there will be far fewer unplanned pregnancies.
However, a childhood in the foster care system is better than no childhood at all. Aborted children never get a childhood.
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I agree with respect to having contraception and such easily available. I admit I would more than likely oppose closing down clubs or shutting down magazines since I honestly do not think that would much slow down the number of unwanted pregnancy and doubt those have much impact on those who are getting abortions.
I suppose if one takes the view of an idealistic sense of the children in foster care and all are taken care of and such that would be great. But if we look at the statistics.. 25% of them in foster care are there because they were abused, an even higher percent is due to parents with substance issues thus they are neglected.
So I would have to disagree that we should ban abortion under the.. a life in foster care is better than no life at all.. eh .. but you are entitled to that view of course. Everyone has their own opinion on the matter.
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"I admit I would more than likely oppose closing down clubs or shutting down magazines since I honestly do not think that would much slow down the number of unwanted pregnancy and doubt those have much impact on those who are getting abortions."
How old are you? It may be impossible for you to imagine a world without pervasive images of scantily clad women, but people who are old enough to collect Social Security don't have to, because they lived in that era, and I guarantee you that they would disagree with you.
You need to read this article. If after reading this article, you remain unconvinced of the damage and harm that our culture's legitimization of extramarital sex has done, I don't know what will.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure at minimum. Sometimes that ounce of prevention may be worth a trillion tons of cure.
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Some I am sure would disagree with me, would all of them? Doubtful. Just as some in my age group of nearly 30 would also agree with you, will all of them? Doubtful.
I take not the view of oh noes, a few racy magazines and certain “clubs” are what are the mass pushers of the issue with abortion since.. Abortion rates have been decreasing several years, even as access to such material in these same years have greatly increased.
Well I did read the article, and it did not change my mind. So on that I guess you and I will have to simply agree to disagree. Since, with respect to this piece, I do not think simply saying remain a virgin until marriage is a realistic approach, nor do I believe “slut shaming” is the right approach to the matter. So… it did not change my mind so onto your next point.
Then we should start with proper sex ed which when properly taught has been shown to decrease pregnancy rates as well as increase, though usually just by a few years, the age at which the girls are engaging in sex… but that also means a realistic approach and not just abstinence only classes.
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Yeah it sure won't...I can only imagine the future getting worse if we banned abortion everywhere. There's enough overpopulation as it stands, as you mentioned not tons of kids get adopted so the adoption houses would be absolutely overflowing. Plus you can never tell how good a parent an individual will be...having a child could be dangerous for someone who is mentally unstable or someone who had a horrific childhood may play it out on the kids they were forced to raise because they couldn't get an abortion...I can only imagine abuse cases going up severely if this happens too.
Fertility and intelligence are linked? That's interesting. I never thought it really benefits the children in say the Duggar Family (have you watched 19 kids and counting?) to have so many siblings to fight for attention with. They seem happy on camera but I don't know about having outlandish amounts of children. It's not good for the environment or your pocket OR your sanity lol, and I think the pronounced generation gaps are harmful for the kids even. The older kids I can see growing up to resent their mother and father and want nothing to do with the young ones anymore (they have so much children that the older ones are pressured to be second Mums and Dads and pick up after the little ones, it takes a big chunk out of their personal alone time when they need their space the most) and the younger kids I just see becoming lazy and highly dependant.
Pro-quality-of-life I am also Pro-quality-of-life
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I agree, part of the issue with the low adoption rates is because we do not have enough case agents to run the background checks, run the random home inspections, investigate and ask neighbors etc to make sure a child will be safe - so the process can take years and sometimes the people just give up.
With respect to medical needs, that is why they do a background check on them to make sure there is nothing in their medical charts that may stick out to show they would be a risk to the child or children they may be adopted - - so their mental health and such are often checked…and rechecked
Not really fertility and intelligence but more so family planning and intelligence… you can be highly intelligent and yet highly fertile.. but family planning and thinking 5..10 years down the road to where you want to be, when do you want to ideally have kids, just in general planning vs… just having sex and getting pregnant and..well there ya go.
I have heard of the sow, but have ever seen the show “19 kids and counting”.
I do not think it is a health thing as much as family structure thing.. I come from a family of 9 kids.. my father’s mother had 16 kids, my mother’s mother had 14 kids.. I have several hundred first cousins alone.. so I come from a family of large families.
I o course cannot speak to the pocket or sanity part since that is dependent on the person and as far as to the environment .. that would also depend on their lifestyle.
I have never seen the show, so cannot speak to what the older kids may or may not have to do. Or did you mean in general, then yes I may agree but I will say it depends on the family structure…
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Yeah ok so family planning and intelligence...well that does make sense those would be correlated.
I've seen the show, and I couldn't watch past a few episodes...it seemed all too surreal to me...plus I had problems with the way the family was run on screen. It just irked me so much.
Just like I said the eldests had the world on their shoulders and were spread way too thin. The youngests had about seven to eight shared caretakers at a time meaning they were spoiled. The eldests that I saw on the show barely had time for a life, and the mother even "persuaded" (I think that's careful wording for manipulated 
In general and the show I guess...
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Yeah, the more intelligent a couple usually is – they generally have less kids the “American dream” house, car.. 2-3 kids etc
I have only seen the commercials for it, never was interested enough to watch.
Ah, well I do not think that is much of an issue, as I said with respect to my family - yes at times the older kids would have to watch the younger kids while the parents worked and such - - that was especially true with my father’s family and the 16 kids.. my mother’s family, her mother, father and 14 kids lived on a farm so the kids did help on the farm and such - - so I cannot speak to a general detriment to the older kids unless I see how the family structure is.
So on the show I will just have to take your word for it since I have never seen it but I cannot speak to that aspect to large families in general.
Well is it a religious thing? Some religions tell you to procreate as often as you can so . as far as reason, if religious, I may not agree but such is life.
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I wanted to watch it out of morbid curiousity...to see how the kids fared. I didn't like what I saw, that's all I will say.
Ok then.
Huh. Well maybe...but we really don't need to repopulate the Earth again. I mean...if every woman in the world had one baby...gah I don't even want to think about it. The numbers would staggering. I very much disagree that people NEED to have families of their own to be whole. But of course I don't want to force anyone to not follow what they want to out of free will.
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Okay.
The bible has three verses with this
Genesis 1:28
"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
Genesis 9:7
"As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
Genesis 1:22
God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth."
And telling people to multiply made a lot of sense 2,000 years ago where your average lifespan was 30s-40s … and very few people on earth but… with over 7 billion people on earth, it is about time we slow down on the procreating… especially giving that the way in which we use our energy resources that makes it far worse… the earth of course could support more people but if we continue to utilize our energy and land the way we do then it makes the planet unhealthy as a whole since we are overusing resources that we have alternatives for .. oil being one example.
Well under that premise of course, assuming you mea that a man and a woman would only have one child ad that is it… overall trend that would decrease the population if for every 2 people.. they only have 1 offspring…
Example 8 males, 8 female… will only produce 4 kids… assuming 2 boys and 2 girls.. and between those two boys and two girls.. only 2 kids will be produced.. and between those two kids. That would only produce 1 child.. so in the long run every woman having 1 kid would be a good thing but … some women have none..and some women .. have 19 and counting to reference the show you were speaking of..
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I agree. Telling people to multiply in the present is not the wisest thing.
Oh really...hmm like China's one child policy. But I don't think many people would actually go for that. If that law were to be put into place there'd be a lot of protesting because some people really want their clan of a dozen kids.
I guess what I was meaning to say is that the world population somehow...I dunno multiplies at alarming rate like something crazy like...increasing tenfold every few years...that would put a lot of strain on resources...and just everything.
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"I agree. Telling people to multiply in the present is not the wisest thing. "
I suppose it depends on the group being told but, and the resources and the lifestyle they live.
"Oh really...hmm like China's one child policy. But I don't think many people would actually go for that. If that law were to be put into place there'd be a lot of protesting because some people really want their clan of a dozen kids."
China is expected to reach its population height in 2050 and start decreasing, though China is a large land and could actually support many more people if they had a more capitalistic structure, and the government did not own pretty much all of the large businesses - - which would allow for the poverty level to decrease and competition to take place.. but they must make it conducive to allow people to buy their own plots of land, especially in the outskirts where the most impoverished people live, due to not being close to the major cities.. allow them to buy their plot of land, grow their own food, and grow things to sell and I think you will see the robust economy and system change drastically - -like intelligence often is linked to less kids - - poverty - -which is part systemic, part systematic paired with not enough investing in education and the like is often linked to more kids..
"I guess what I was meaning to say is that the world population somehow...I dunno multiplies at alarming rate like something crazy like...increasing tenfold every few years...that would put a lot of strain on resources...and just everything."
That would be impossible for the earth to increase "ten fold" every few years.. unless every woman start having 10 kids a pop.. but over centuries it is possible but that is in part to science of course.
yes and no, while it is unrealistic that the earth population will every increase tenfold every "few" years the resources can adjust with societal growth if done correctly..
Though since time is relative when you say "few" you could have meant over thousands of years which could be true.. in 1950 there were 2.5 billion people on earth .. now.. 60 years later that number is at 7.2.. so it took 60 years to even triple.. so "ten fold" would be rather difficult in a "few" years.
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Murdering the poor child in the womb is hardly a decent idea.
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No one says to end all abortions, but the idea that if we just ban abortion that will suddenly solve the problem is also hardly a good idea.
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Keeping it is an even worse one.
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I assume you mean keeping it legal then that is of course a matter of opinion.
--your comment could have also meant keeping a child you do not want is a worse one [idea] - -if that is what was meant then I would agree.
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From your point of view, I suppose.
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