HOME | DD
AtheosEmanon — Israel does not equal Judaism
by-nc-nd
Published: 2010-10-21 19:29:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 2093; Favourites: 33; Downloads: 21
Redirect to original
Description
I am just bored so made a quick stamp.Here it goes, ISRAEL does not equal Jewish people.
I am tired of whenever I question the actions of the Israeli government, and flat out disagree with their policies [which I do quite often] of being accused hating Jews.
Here it is simply, as an atheist I hold no “favor” over most religions, yet simply because someone is questioning Israel does not mean that they have a hatred of Jews or the Jewish people.
Since I debate daily, usually religion and politics, if the debate happens to be over Israel and their constant abuse of their political powers and use of their allies to take over vast amounts of land in the middle east and oppressing the people.
While Israel may be vastly majority Jewish people, you must learn to separate the government from the religion.
When I dare question the great Israel Government [sarcasm] I usually get called anti-Semitic.
Wonder why when I question middle eastern countries I do not get called anti-Islam, or America anti-Christianity.
But yea, I do not know exactly what to write here, I am sure other people get this because even when watching some debates on pictures on this site, about 80% of the time I have seen, when people question Israel [the government] it always turns around to the other side attempting to show that the person who may not like the government, somehow is anti-Semitic. To which most times makes me laugh because when they debate the person usually makes it quite clear they are simply speaking of the government’s actions, and their military, not their religious beliefs.
If you cannot learn to separate criticism for a government versus the denigrating of your beliefs then we have far more things to discuss...
Okay that is all.
Good day comrades.
Related content
Comments: 99
👍: 3 ⏩: 0
I know a chick from Israel and she's an athiest. Nice stamp~
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Thansk for the fave of this piece and that other stamp
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Heh, I know how that feels.
Also, you're welcome. I love a lot of your views.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
yeah, just between my parents I had 28 aunts and uncles.. their parents had 30 kids altogether.. so I have around 150 first cousins and well over 200 second cousins..
Thanks, and I see you faved another, the peace one. Very much appreciated
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
True. It's not run by any Jewish laws and it's not 100% Jew so you can't necessarily be anti-Jew 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Very few people that dislike Israel dislike it simply because it is majority Jewish - yes you have Nazi groups, and such that do but these people are a numerical minority of those that may disagree with Israel on Policy matters.
I am part Jewish so to hate Jewish for disagreeing with a policy of a country which has nothing to do with it being Jewish would be most interesting a claim.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Oh I'm not saying that. If you read my comment I am agreeing with you since Israel is not truly a 100% Jewish. What I was saying the only time anti-Semite would apply for hating Israel is if the one in question doing the hating hated them because of their Jewish character
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I wasn't saying you were saying it, I was saying those that accuse me, someone who is part Jewish of hating Jews because I disagree with a country on a policy matter which has nothing to do with the ethnoreligionist make up of the people would be most interesting a claim.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
You should also make a stamp that says "Israeli government =/= Israel."
I'm getting pretty tired of people talking about "supporting" Israel or Palestine, like they're just soccer teams, instead of actual cultures made up of human beings.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
yeah on my stamp here, I wrote that people should learn to differentiate between the actions of a government entity from the people or country as a whole..
I may add to that stamp in the future though.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Lol I was just being a smart-ass, you don't really have to make that stamp. Though if you do, I'll fave it. 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
the stamp has already been made and was already posted on August 9, 2014
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
*you posted two comments so will address them both here"
Well I do not think zionism or those who consider themselves zionists which include many Jews and non Jews is a default enemy of Judaism.
I admit I grow quite skeptical of an argument when compared to Nazi Germany, but I will say that the way the government of Israel runs, my major issue with it is the border pushing polices more than anything, and America's constant vetoing allowing full statehood to the Palestinian country.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Zionism is Jewish nationalism
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
But still, one is just a step away from the other.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Isreal itself is one step away from being Judaism itself.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Israel is a country, while the majority of its people are Jewish, I do not see how it is one step away from being Judaism .. or a religion. But everyone is entitled to their own view.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It exists for a reason. The Holocaust made the Jews desperate and desired a state of their own.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
llol, maybe if the jews stopped fucking with people it would have never happened. Prove the 6 million bodies, btw.
you CANT.
jews ran the slave trade and profited like hell. 10 million africans died from the middle passage alone. Where is their state?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I did not say it does not exist for a reason, I said I do not consider it synonymous with Judaism or if you question Israel then you are questioning Judaism.. or if you have an issue with Israel then you have an issue with Judaism... or my favorite, whenever one has an issue with Israel, of being accused of hating Jews.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I do in fact support Isreal.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I do not really see what that has to do with the stamp.. or the artist comments. No one said that someone should or should not support Israel - it says that when someone criticizes Israel - accusing them of hating Jews as a first step is idiotic.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Yep. I have met a lot of Jewish people who do not support Isreal.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
I have met many Americans who do not support America.
Did you mean to say you've met Jews who don't agree with what the Israeli government is doing? It's odd, how people keep talking about "supporting" Israel and Palestine, like they're soccer teams.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
As have I, I wish people would stop using them interchangeably.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Much obliged for the fave, glad you enjoyed it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Exactly. But as we Jews have been hated vicariously for the better part of two thousand years, can you blame us if we get a little defensive?
Everyone can criticise the Israeli government, but it's only when you slide towards demonization it becomes anti-Semitic. Also, since Israel's government is entirely run by Jews, and Jewish law (however unfortunately) dominates the Israeli code of justice, it's easy to confuse the two.
In short, I agree with you, and, like most Jews, have no problem with letigimate criticism of the Israeli government.
Shalom.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Dude shut the fuck up with the victim card. You fakers views blacks and arabs as subhuman. Want to go? We can do this all day. I'll get the lubricant.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
"us as in Jews"
I am part Jewish [sort of like Einstein, ethnically yet not religiously] but I do not get offended when people question Israel's government if they limit their judgments to the scope of governmental powers such as continuous spreading of lands outside designated Israeli territory and so on... I have yet to have any issue with people limit the scope to their issues to actual problems without mentioning of the religion..or even Judaism at all. They generally limit the scope to the Israeli government.
Though, generally those who accuse me of being anti-semitic for questioning Israel are not generally Jews, but Christians.
Well I would disagree also with "When you slide towards demonization it becomes anti-Semitic"
If you are demonizing them because you believe they overstep the boundaries of their powers. Or flat out abuse their powers when spreading into new territory, as long as the focal point of this disagreement is not their faith or race... then I do not see it as anti-semitic. If you are hating them because they are Jewish and all else falls secondary to that then I would count it as anti-semitic. If the point of your dislike or disagreement with Israel has nothing to do with them being Jewish then I do not see it as anti-semitic… which goes hand in hand with what the artist comment says of separating the government from the religion of the majority. I dislike lots of America’s foreign policies yet I do not believe this to be “anti Christian” because the religious makeup of the people is not what someone is demonizing.
You can believe the actions of a government is evil, or wrong….without the religion of those involved playing a factor in your views.
Good day to you… um Sir? Madam? Unsure since I have not checked out your page and “Mila Eighteen” sounds like a female’s name..
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You certainly can, and, like most governments the Israeli government deserves to be criticised, especially as it becomes more right-wing-ified. Abuses of power have almost certainly taken place, as we struggle to defend ourselves. Very often we overestimate the amount of force that needs to be used, or even use force when the situation does not call for it. What can I say? We're backed into a corner.
Israel seems to shuttle between two extremes: Left (pre 21st century) and Right (now). They say "two Jews, three opinions", so no wonder we can't find a balance. Personally, I think it was Rabin's assassination that did it for us, as we seemed to be making good progress up to that point.
But, when you start comparing Israel to Nazi Germany-- that's when I get mad, especially when there is little or no evidence to back it up. But we're trying desperately. That's what counts, I hope. Someday, I assure you, we will have peace.
As for the gender question, 18 Mila Street was the headquarters of the ZOB (Jewish Fighting Organization) during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. I'm a guy, in other words.
Good day to you as well and shalom once more.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Which is why I say criticizing the government itself is needed. For me personally, just as when Israel was formed and they agreed to those previous “Israel Borders” I believe they should have went back to the UN and tried to get more land or better yet, I am sure during that time [since much of the land was uninhabited] they could have simply offered to purchase the territory that they wanted then I do not believe that Israel would be having the issues it has now.
Yet when you bypass the UN, do not even offer the country to pay for more land… and just with force spread the land then, Jewish or non-Jewish, atheist nation or not… I do believe anyone could have seen this would cause problems with surrounding territories.
I just looked at your profile and see you were born here, it would be like one state, rather than buying the land from another state … simply extending their borders and then when the other state try and push back you [first state] say they are terrorist. While in my travels I do know that there are groups who dislike Israel and Jews. According to a poll the majority of even Israeli and Palestinian citizens wish for a two state solution… yet where the “problem” comes from is… Palestine wants to negotiate on a two state solution based on the previously agreed upon borders and Israel says that is nonnegotiable since it would leave them defenseless and they would rather negotiate on settlements based on the 1967 borders of which Palestine says that is nonnegotiable because they believe it grants Israel too much land…
While I personally favor a two state solution, I believe they should start from the 1947 UN partition plan which pretty much gave each side an equal amount of land…. But I am sure Palestine would disagree with this notion as .. the 1946 borders, given Israel’s population at the time gave Israel just about 5-10% of the landmass. And Palestine the rest.
So a two state solution is not really opposed by both sides, merely which borders do they start with…while this of course does not have much to do with anti Semitism, it has been used to rally people on both sides to fight.. each believing they are right.
“As for the gender question”
Ah, okay. Mila I know to be a female name yet the writing style seemed that of a male. So I was unsure of the gender of you at the time of your post. Men are generally more hm try to address each point in general while women generally write in paragraph form to address the comment as a whole.
…but I guess, or rather I hope as the “Arab Springs” get more and more powerful and the youth start taking control they will not be so stuck in that train of thought and perhaps something will get done but .. only time will tell
Good day to you, sir.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Only time will tell." Indeed. So far it's been impossible to draw up borders that are acceptable to both sides. And, of course there's the argument "How would you like to share a border with a state whose mandate is to destroy you?", which is valid. Then there's "But Israel should give the land it occupied" which is also valid. And then there's "Who cares about all this as they're sure to kill each other off soon anyway." which is valid too.
Oy. Would that Mashiach would come already and we wouldn't have to worry about any this.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well the original border was agreed upon by the then Palestinian officials and the Jewish settlers because then it was a very small piece of land and there were not many Jews going to this place… as their population grew rather than going back to the UN to redraw up lines to fit the new population the Israelis [not saying they were right or wrong] at that time thought since the surrounding land was uninhabited that it would be no worry to simply spread it… while uninhabited the land was still Palestine’s and … that is why they have had so many battled the big “War” being the where the 1967 borders were drawn by Israel and … well of course hostility ever since.
“"How would you like to share a border with a state whose mandate is to destroy you… . which is valid”
Not exactly, Palestine’s main issue has always been Israel breaking the previously agreed upon land treaty and spreading out pass land that was never intended for Israel nor did Israel get Palestine’s permission before spreading out.
If they could agree upon a land deal, given Israel Population is 7.6M and Palestine’s population is 4.2M I believe the UN 1947 Partition with mutually agreed upon swaps where Palestine will either take the North and Israel the south will make for a mutual agreement YET if you look at this [link] I believe it is clear that Palestine do have some cause for anger if you look at the 1946 agreed upon land deal …and how much Land Israel and Palestine “control” today I do not believe one can look at it and say it is … a fair swap of land.. yes some will offer the argument that ..well they fought over it, Israel and its allies won so they keep it… but that of course is predicated on the wrong notion of all being fair in war… if the first step was wrong [spreading land outside of agreed upon territory] then every step since then cannot be considered “right”.
Yet, if we cannot first get one side to compromise on whether we start from the 1946 land deal, which is not enough land given Israel’s current population or the 1967 land deal… which Palestine believes starting from a position after they have lost a majority of their land… but as stated perhaps the youth will be okay with the UN 1947 deal.. which if you look was just one year after the agreed upon land deal and I believe it to be quite fair to both territories…
But one issue… religious issue, .. Israel will never Agree to Palestine control of Jerusalem and Palestine will never agree with Israel control of it…
“Who cares about all this as they're sure to kill each other off soon anyway”
I do not believe this, as I am sure you know, especially with Muslims in the middle east honor is a big deal… “stealing” [their view] land that is not your is a swipe on their honor. They are like any people and would like some say on what goes on their nation and so if they have a major say in how the land will look… I believe it will be easy to settle ALL of the land with the exception of Jerusalem.
Well I am an atheist so I am not waiting for any messiahs… I am waiting for people who are willing to negotiate .. but no matter what Jerusalem will be the hardest “sell” on who will control it.
Good day to you, sir.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well, several days ago I was reading Mr. Clancy's "The Sum Of All Fears" in which he outlines a possible paece plan for the Middle East. His vision involves Vatican control of Jerusalem, which would be ruled by representatives of all three major religions. How therest of Israel is divided up is not even touched on, but such a plan, involving multi-national control of Jerusalem, might prove a stopgap until a better mthod can be discerned.
Good day, sir.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That would NEVER be agreed upon by Israel giving the Pope's previous views ... you remember about a century ago when the then Pope ordered all Jews must leave Rome. Jews will not now say it is okay for the Vatican to control a piece of land they believe to be holy, and given the pope's views on Islam they will also NEVER agree to such a domination to have control of Israel.
.... I do not see that happening, each group, especially Muslims have deep feelings of their views that the "holy land" must be protected and they should be the ones to do it and the Jews the same. I believe it would be great for them to co-own it yet I believe introducing a group, the Vatican who has had negative things to say about both groups in the past is just adding fuel to a fire that has been going on for over 1000 years.
Good day.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Correct, though it seems to me the Vatican wouldn't actually have much control over the whole arrangement. However, I do endorse a multi-national Jerusalem.
If the UN ever becomes effective, maybe it could undertake something like that.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I am for a multi-national control of Jerusalem as long as those nations as Israel and Palestine. ... If it is anything Palestine NOR Israel needs is more foreign interference in their affairs, that includes the Vatican and ESPECIALLY America.
The UN is quite effective, Americans do not generally think so because they forget that the UN is not there to vote with America they are there to vote for international interests. I believe the UN Security council would have to first recognize Palestine!
If you remember a few months ago the US vetoed Palestine when it wanted to be a full member of the UN just like Israel is, it is hard to say they are equal when you will not allow one country full UN powers as you do another country...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Perhaps. It is conceivable, though, that given time and the mellowing of all parties, we could see a "one-state" solution combining Israel and Palestine, with multi-national control of Jerusalem. 'Course, we're a long way off.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Both Israel and Palestine says that is not acceptable... a two state solution is all one could hope for.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Thanks man. It happened again just yesterday. While debating Israel and their politics the person said I hate Jews... yeah, because not agreeing with Israel = hating Jews.
I guess I will have to call up my Jewish lineage and tell them I hate them all because... I disagreed with Israel hm...
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
| Next =>