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AtheosEmanon — Israel does not equal Judaism
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Published: 2010-10-21 19:29:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 2093; Favourites: 33; Downloads: 21
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I am just bored so made a quick stamp.Here it goes, ISRAEL does not equal Jewish people.
I am tired of whenever I question the actions of the Israeli government, and flat out disagree with their policies [which I do quite often] of being accused hating Jews.
Here it is simply, as an atheist I hold no “favor” over most religions, yet simply because someone is questioning Israel does not mean that they have a hatred of Jews or the Jewish people.
Since I debate daily, usually religion and politics, if the debate happens to be over Israel and their constant abuse of their political powers and use of their allies to take over vast amounts of land in the middle east and oppressing the people.
While Israel may be vastly majority Jewish people, you must learn to separate the government from the religion.
When I dare question the great Israel Government [sarcasm] I usually get called anti-Semitic.
Wonder why when I question middle eastern countries I do not get called anti-Islam, or America anti-Christianity.
But yea, I do not know exactly what to write here, I am sure other people get this because even when watching some debates on pictures on this site, about 80% of the time I have seen, when people question Israel [the government] it always turns around to the other side attempting to show that the person who may not like the government, somehow is anti-Semitic. To which most times makes me laugh because when they debate the person usually makes it quite clear they are simply speaking of the government’s actions, and their military, not their religious beliefs.
If you cannot learn to separate criticism for a government versus the denigrating of your beliefs then we have far more things to discuss...
Okay that is all.
Good day comrades.
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Comments: 99
Thanks man, and also thanks for the fave of the SROE stamp. Much appreciated
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I am an American Jew who is moving to Israel and joining the IDF. I love America and Israel. Yes, criticizing Israel does not automatically equate antisemitism, but they tend to go hand in hand. The surrounding countries hate Israel because they the Jewish nation. I've had to face a lot of ignorance and antisemitism and hearing comments about how "Israel should be to rid of the world of Jews" shows a mutual hatred of both. You try dealing with people who hate you because you a practice a different religion, and then decide if your against a safe state for said religion to exist. I'm not trying to be, just sharing my experience. I don't know why people think the fact that I celebrate Shabbat, keep Kosher and read the Torah means I'm part of a worldwide banking conspiracy. I have to deal with so much ignorance here in the States (though I do love the US very much) that I can't wait to live in Israel where being Jewish is a good, celebrated thing. I only love Israel because I'm Jewish and because its my biblical homeland, so for me Israel and Judaism go hand in hand. Judaism comes first though, always.
Sorry the comment was so long, I'm a very detailed speaker 
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I disagree with your premise of "they tend to go hand in hand" Many people in this country question the policies of Israel because they either disagree with Israel, disagree with America's involvement in foreign matters, disagree with it for a number of reasons that their religious make-up has nothing to do with it.
When you hear isolationists, and non-interventionist in that particular affair it is not because they are Jewish.
"Israel should be to rid the world of Jews" Unsure exactly what you are trying to say it, it doesn't make much sense.
I have been to the middle east, several times, and am not saying that the people there may or may not like them because they are Jewish, because they see them as an occupying force, etc... yet I grow tired when "I" disagree with something Israel has done, or one of their politicians had said and people using the overused, "anti-semitic" against me for idiotic reasons... people must learn to separate the state from the faith.
If ever speaking against the policies of a government equates to religious intolerance because of the majority make-up then the point becomes lost in the trivial uselessness of name calling rather than perhaps addressing the issue spoken of.
I do not deal in conspiracies, yet I grow tired, as stated, that the stupidity of using anti-semite swipes at people when they happen to question Israel or middle eastern politics.
You “only” love Israel because you are Jewish? That is the only thing making you move because you are Jewish?
Going hand in hand implies similar connection, no one denied that yet they are not the same. Someone questions Israel does not mean they are taking swipes at Judaism and when someone questions Judaism [as an atheist I question all faiths quite regularly] does not mean they are taking a swipe against Israel.
If people cannot learn to separate the two than any civil, real debate on the middle eastern politics becomes toiled in rhetoric and slander.
I shall assume since this is the only comment posted as a new comment and not in reply to something below that it was meant for me since Deviant art does not show when you reply to another even if it is on my photo. If this was meant as an add-on to something said below then okay;
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I'm sorry you get accused of being antisemitic simply for disagreeing with Israeli politics, thats not fair and I don't support that. For me, Israel is the Jewish homeland and I fully support it being there, but I don't want to argue or offend anyone. Agreeing to disagree here.
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I never said Israel should not be there... I just do not agree with some of their policies regarding the land, and definitely do not agree how America always submits to their will regarding middle eastern politics.
But okay, good day.
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I've got nothing against Jews in general. But I think that Israel is a mistake.
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you're telling me that the one democracy in the MIddle East is a mistake? do explain.
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Well its only a European settler state that invaded the land and discriminates against non Jews. Don't know how to be clearer
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HOw is it a EUropeaon settler state?
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Fuck, a bunch of European Jews moved in to start a new Zion. Am I moving too fast for you?
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And there have been Palestinian families living there for thousands of years. And families in Scotland who've lived there just as long. What point are you trying to make?
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my points is that I'm not sure how you got this idea of "eauropean jews moving in to start a new ZIon". Many of the immigrants went tehre to avoicd ANti-Semitism.
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That's what it is.
Zionism existed for a long time before the founding of Israel. it began life as the British Mandate of Palestine; during which time Jewish settlers from Europe began to settle in the land.
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Israel is not a mistake, after years of persecution the Jewish people need one place where they are safe. No one questions the existence of purely Muslim states. No one questions the existence of the Vatican, a Roman Catholic state. Only the Israel's right to exist is questioned.
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I don't think it would be ethical to remove Israel this late in the game. All I'm saying is that the way the creation of Israel was handled was horrible. Any forced migration is bound to create bad blood.
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...but they took Jewish land first. We were forced against our will to migrate, why was it acceptable when it happened to us?
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I believe it was the Romans who scattered Jewish civilization in the first place.
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Yes, so why is okay that the Jewish people were forced to leave the homeland promised to them by God but no okay for the Palestinians to leave? Jews have a biblical claim and Muslims do not. Israel is mentioned hundreds of time in the Torah, not once in Koran. There are several Islamic states where the Palestinians could live, so why do they want to take Israel? Why are all the surrounding Islamic countries so enraged at the existence of one single Jewish state? Its unfair.
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Who says that God promised that land to the Jews? The land belongs in practice to whoever can enforce their claim. Ideally, Jews and Palestinians would live in peace and tolerance.
The Palestinians don't want to live in Saudi-Arabia, the Emirates or any number of Muslim countries. They want to live in Palestine. I live in Canada, but I'd still be pretty miffed if I was forced to give up everything I know and move to the United States, no matter how nice the US may be.
And just for the record I'm not advocating the removal of the Jews from Israel. That would only exacerbate the problem and be unethical. My point being that the Jews have no special claim to that land.
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you do realise that Palestine doesn't exist anymore, right? it's Israel. Palestine was the name the ROmans gave it because they were trying to seperate the JEws from their land.
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Palestinian doesn't exist anymore? They've been calling it Palestinian since Roman times and it had non Jews living there. What more do you want?
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Palestine is what Israel was once called. it si the same land. Palestinians, are the Arab refugees who need a better name.
there's a difference, bro.
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So shouldn't Israel really be called Palestinian? Since you're obviously attempting to return to a past age. Should the Scottish boot out the Irish because that's where their distant ancestors came from
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no, I'm not. if I waas trying to return to a past age I would call it Judea. by this argument I would be calling the Czech REpublic Czechoslovakia, even though they changed their name.
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and right now it's called Palestine. IT's called Palestine, today, now, except by people who insist that Palestine doesn't exist anymore.
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The Torah says God promised the land to the Jews in a covenant with them, naming them the people of Israel. I would tolerate the Palestinians if they wouldn't have elected terrorist government (Hamas), stopped sending rockets over the Gaza border and stopped calling for Israel to be destroyed. Israel wants peace, but they're negotiations are always rejected by the Islamic countries.
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I'm sorry but I don't accept the authority of the Torah. It's a document thousands of years old really shouldn't be used to determine policy.
The Palestinians turn to terrorism because they feel they have no other way. Palestinian towns are being bulldozed to make way for Israeli settlers and frankly that scares the shit out of them.
As to whether Israel wants peace, I'll say that some factions want peace.
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Ok, so lets agree to disagree. My whole religion is founded on the divine authority of the Torah. And its ok for the Palestinians to murder Jewish children, bomb Jewish schools and tactically destroy heavily populated civilian areas in Israel because they have no other way?
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Well I have nothing personally against your religion. I'm atheist myself so I don't really regard your faith as more special than any other faith.
I do not endorse terrorism against any people, Jewish or otherwise. But in the war between Israel and Palestine, blood has been spilled on both sides, by both sides. No one is innocent.
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I can respect that. I appreciate your objective view and approach to a debate. Its rare to be able to disagree with someone without someone being offensive/offended. Its refreshing
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Well the internet is traditionally a place where people act like they have no restraints.
Peace be with you.
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Thanks man, that is exactly what I am saying. People need to learn to separate the two. When I speak against Israel, they take it as me criticizing all jews
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Since FairyKingAub blocked me... this is to em...
what they said
"No, it isn't, but I already checked out your page and saw what a fucking idiot you are so it doesn't matter.""
My answer:
Everything matters.
\
Why am I a fucking idiot?
Because I happen to find it funny when rapist and pedophiles get raped as my stamp says here
[link]
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Then why do they want to make citizens take some sort of Jewish Oath?
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Because they want a Jewish state, yet It does not equal the Jewish religion.
When you say you do not like like Israel for their actions, you [or rather I] am not saying I dislike Jewish people.
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o_O How doesn't it equal the Jewish religion?
I don't agree with Israel's actions either, but no one will believe I say I don't like Jews because of my art and friends, so for me they'll think it anyway so...
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I just said how it doesn't equal Judaism.
Simply because Israel wishes for a Jewish state, that does not mean when criticizing Israel as a state, that you are criticizing all Jewish people.
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I'm asking how a Jewish State doesn't equal Judaism.
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The same as when criticizing the politics of n Islam country, or even islamic extremist is not criticizing all people who practice that faith.
I am pretty sure it was explained in the artist comment
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No, it isn't, but I already checked out your page and saw what a fucking idiot you are so it doesn't matter.
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Hmm well to poit out people who ake anti Isreal have made anti eh commets. While I agree, there is a ruge reason why people think this.
It also doesn't help that Iseal is surrowned by coutries that hate Jews and want to distroy them for being a Jewih tate.
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I will assume by eh comments you mean antisemitic comments.
I am sure that many over there do not like them for being Jewish and here. But I am speaking that not everyone who does not agree with Israel has a hatred for Jews.
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And if you understood that I said I agreed with you and pointing out why people do think anti Isreal policy comments are tied in with people hatred towards Jews.
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Yes, I am aware of that. Particularly in America. When I speak with people in other countries about disliking Israeli politics, they usually do not go YOU HATE JEWS... blah blah blah
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