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TheMachine
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Published: 2007-09-12 15:12:20 +0000 UTC; Views: 52486; Favourites: 1902; Downloads: 1233
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I hate when people (or bodies of people IE governments etc) do things in Gods (or Allah or whatever you want to call him/her/it/them) name! Most of us have sort of forgotten whats going on over there in Iraq. That doesn't mean its not happening anymore. We've just started to get used to the thought. Whether we like it or not.Anyway, back to the topic:
I get frustrated when people (or governments) say they follow god and then do something like.... Invade a country?? This piece is dedicated to using God as an excuse for evil.
Just sick of people going out and doing things in Gods name....
And now i'm very sleepy!
*goes to sleep*
DD! WOW! THANKYOU SO MUCH!
Go check these peeps out!
THANKYOU!
I will try and reply to all your comments and such but it might take a little while...
P.S. It seems that some people are wondering how religion comes into play here. One of my main points in this argument is the official US motto. 'In God We Trust'. ( See here: [link] )
I do not believe that you can say such a thing, such a bold statement, without at least IMPLYING that everything you do is of god.
Once you begin to portray your allegiance (If you will) In such a way, you can no longer really separate the two anymore (State and religion).
But thats my belief anyway...
EDIT: Uploaded separate print version because I had to screw with the image to get it a little larger for print. See:
Related content
Comments: 1212
And just to add: You didn't get a DD for quality, skill, or technique, only the message.
Your models are crude, ultra simplistic (and that's even coming from me who makes low poly stuff for games), your lighting is can do better, and you can at least try to make some effort into texturing. And I guarantee that if you put anything but a cross on that building you wouldnt have gotten a DD.
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Our beliefs make us who we are and inspire us to do the things we do. Your piece (to me) is beautiful in its simplicity and sends a message. Thank you for sharing it hun.
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And thankyou for taking the time to appreciate it!
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The image is stunning and quite effective in conveying a strong message. It really reminds me of old world war propaganda.
My concern is that the message conveyed by the picture doesn't seem to match the description. Instead of denouncing all governments and institutional bodies that use a religious excuse to further a violent personal agenda, it looks like you are perpetuating fear and hostility towards Christianity.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of "yeast of the Pharisees" or hypocrisy running around, which tarnishes what would otherwise be a welcome name.
I am reminded of Matthew 23:15: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."
That said, there are genuine Christians out there who model Christ, and it's painful to watch any negative imagery pinned on them.
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ha amazing i love the tanks they look awesome
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youre so right man!
thats one of the reasons i dont believe in god and think that religions are bad!
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It's been happening since the dawn of time. Yes they're wrong for using His name, but that won't stop them. They did it in the Middle Ages, they do it now. From the Crusades, to today. Nothing will ever change when we let our humanity take control. This is not what God wants, he's given us everything he does want in the Bible, but we do not follow it to the letter. OR we make strange extrapolations and use 'certain words' to our advantage. It's why I live by the firm belief that People... Suck!
Anyhoo, great piece,
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Thankyou!
And I agree, People suck! lol.
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I understand what's being said here and I think it's a good message for all to think about but I think the aim is a bit off if you know what I mean. Who are the ones using god as an excuse by and large in this world? It's radical forces who have destroyed the Muslim religion from inside, we know the Muslim religion is by and large full of good peaceful people but these radical forces have taken their religion away form them and used it for evil. As far as I know there are no radical terrorist groups going around in an army of tanks blowing things up and killing people in the name of Allah, they don't have western tanks or any tanks at all but instead they drive up their normal everyday looking car and blow the top off in a crowded market. As far as I know there are no Christians going around and invading countries in the name of God, only in some people's minds who like to distort facts, there is no Crusade going on. This piece clearly shows people going into a Christian Church and coming out as tanks meant to kill in the name of God, the aim is misplaced both at the people and the religion but I guess it's not as fun when you point out the enemy's problems. Now don't anyone distort that and say I'm anti-Muslim because I've tried my hardest not to do just that, the Muslim faith is good and peaceful but the people who have hijacked it aren't and they can picked out and pointed at without insulting the whole faith. Also what's going on in Iraq now is much different from what was going on in Iraq, although I realize that when this was uploaded things were still in the process of changing. For instance I believe in one of these recent past months that the death toll for US soldiers was around 4 which is substantially lower to the 100 or more that were being killed in the months when the fighting was the worst.
Also someone mentioned "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"........ I can't begin to figure out why that'd be blacklisted in England, we read it here in school and watched the movie. I don't see what the big deal is and why it would be blacklisted, it's also nothing like the topic here at all.
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That you single out Islam as the only faith with extremists who use God to justify killing really angers me. The Jewish nation of Israel has just as high a percentage if not higher of radicals who do their fighting in the name of God. And as for Christianity, the Third Balkan War was rife with Christian extremists who carried out genocide against the Muslims of Bosnia-Herzogovina in the name of God. Also your statement that Islam has been "hijacked" shows you lack of understanding when it comes to Islam. Islam has no real hierarchy like Catholicsm which has bishops and cardinals. There is a great deal of informality when it comes to Islam, and the interpretations of clerics often differ. As such Islam cannot really be hijacked, it would be like saying the creation of the Mormon religion "hijacked" Christianity, its just ludicrous. And don't distort what I'm saying in thinking I'm calling you "anti-Muslim." I'm not, I simply think you're ignorant when it comes to Islam and the Middle East.
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I didn't say it was the only one, stating one that is most prominent in today's world doesn't mean there aren't others, stating one means that's one among others. I'm aware of Jewish terrorists and I believe I hinted at that in one of my replies but the church in the image shows a cross, not a star of David. As for your assertion that there were Christian extremists in the Third Balkan War, I'm not familiar with it given the timing of my time in school and age, I was to young to understand what was going on in the world but to old to have been taught it in school.
Also I'm aware the Muslim faith doesn't a hierarchy like Catholicism does but I'd still assert that that a religion can still be hijacked despite this. When a minority group of people takes that faith and use it to justify killings and violence then I'd say that the majority of the people from that religion have had their religion hijacked. I don't mean there is a control of all the Muslim faith people by this hijacking force but their religion is being mis-used. Also by hijack you have to take into consideration the way a large number of people look at it or see it, they see it as a the Muslim faith being based on violence, a lot of ill-informed people seem to think the Muslim faith is evil because of the minority hijacking it. Ill-informed people, ignorant you could say, don't realize that the extremists committing violence in the name of Allah are in fact minorities, they take them as being the voice of all Muslims when in fact it's not. The extremists have taken the Muslim faith label and hijacked it, all Muslim people may not feel or see this in their normal everyday lives but if they were to come to the western world they would find they are singled out as being dangerous or a risk. This is an injustice on the Muslim people, carried out not by the ones singling them out but by the ones that caused such a behavior to be carried out in the first place, the extremists. It doesn't mean they are in allegiance with extremists, it means who they are perceived as being by a large swath of the world has been changed by those whom they don't agree with, their identity as a person of Muslim faith has been hijacked.
Also I'm not Catholic, I'm Christian. I don't belong to a Church and I don't go to Church, I believe on my own in my own time. There are many different factions and sects of the Christian faith, of which few have a hierarchy at all. If anyone of these groups broke off and started committing violence in the name of Jesus and they were considered "Christian Terrorists," then I'd feel my religion had been hijacked. My religion and the name of it would be mis-used by a minority group. The true identity of the Christian faith beyond the Catholic Church isn't much different than the Muslim faith, there are no leaders or rulers, you can look at televangelists in the same light as Clerics. We by and large don't have a hierarchical order, there are no bishops and cardinals in our faith just as there aren't any in the Muslim faith.
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Had he used a star of david, or the moon and star there would be people just as upset, it was my take that the cross was just a proxy religous symbol not intended to single any religion out in particular.
See but those are 2 entirely different things. Hijacking Islam and hijacking its image are not the same thing, and to say that its really a hijacking at all is kind off as well. Like I said Muslim law can be interpreted in many ways, meaning that its more of a different interpretation than a hijacking. Its like if someone took every last word of the Bible literally and started going around stoning prostitutes and adulterers to death. Muslims being singaled out as a risk like you said is an injustice but I think it does fall on the hands of those who single them out. There is no excuse for ignorance, and for people to think a minority is the whole is assanine.
Someone misusing something does not constitute hijacking of the whole. If someone stole a jeep and used it to run people over would that mean all jeeps had been "hijacked?" Not in the least. And I know that the majority of Christian faiths have no hierarchy I was using Catholicism as an example to contrast Islam.
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Christianity is the easiest religion to make fun of, for many reasons and mostly because there is no repercussions for doing so.
The technical definition of hijack is to take control of by force, extremists use force and they have taken control of the Muslim faith's image.
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Christianity isn't the easiest to mock because there are no repercussions its because it contradicts itself and there are so many people who claim to be Christian who haven't even read the Bible. But I don't see where anyone was making fun of it here.
They haven't taken control of its image, because someone picks them out to represent all of Islam is no fault of theirs, what if the whole word started associating Americans with Mormons would that mean that Mormons took control of the American image?
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It sounds like your saying it isn't terrorists faults for perverting the image of Muslims around the world.
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That is exactly what I'm saying, unless they acted with the intention of distorting the world view of Islam then its really not their fault. These extremist groups have lots of different goals, none of them have the goal of changing how people see Islam.
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That's stupid, whether someone intends to do something or not the result is still their fault if they caused it to happen, it's called responsibility but I don't know if they teach that in this country anymore since it sure seems like a lot of people seem to don't understand it. Look at the stupid economy, it got thrown down by people being dumb and getting loans they couldn't afford but no lets not hold them responsible for their actions, lets just bail them out somehow while there are people going hungry just to pay their bills on-time. It's like we are living in a dream world where your only at fault for something if you meant for there to be a bad outcome and even then you can squirm your way out of the responsibility. I learned a long time ago that I'm at fault for stuff that happens as a result of my actions whether I meant for the outcome or not. What your saying is anyone can just cry and whine and say, "I didn't mean to do it" and the buck will be passed along, sorry the world doesn't work that way. Your still responsible for your actions no matter the intent of your actions, the buck stops with you whether you meant it or not.
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Sorry I suppose I didn't explain my meaning very well and used a poor example. How someone sees you isn't a matter of responsibility because its entirely respective to the viewer. You can't really control how people look at a situation and as such its ridiculous to say that extremists "hijacked" the image of Islam. 1) Hijacking implies intention. and 2) Its the responsibility of the viewer to be critical and analytical. Blaming how some Americans view Islam would be like blaming Jesus for the people who misinterpreted the Bible and carried out the Spanish inquisition. There's no excuse for ignorance, and for anyone to think that all Muslims are extremists is their own fault.
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Rofl not the one I meant >_<
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Ah, but made you laugh.............. best of all............... No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I do see your point. But as i've said before, once you link yourself to a certain faith, all the things you do, you do because of that faith.
Or at least, thats the way it SHOULD be. And thats the way its interpreted. The US's government motto is 'In god we trust'. And I beleive, by saying that, you are ALSO saying that whatever you do, you do because of this.
This is the basis of christianity etc. God should be with you in all things.
Does this make any sense? (Im a little tired lol)
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You misinterpret the motto, no where does it say Christianity, it just happens to be that the majority of people here are Christian. Also no one pretends to know what God wants all we can do is what we think is best and hope it's the right thing, we don't do so because of any God. God obviously doesn't want killing and none of the actions of war were taken with any sort of God as the motive, we do so because in the long run it means more lives will be saved and freedom from oppression will improve the lives of those citizens once the hard part is cleared. A motto is a motto, no one is using anything, the founding fathers may know a bit more about why they chose that saying even though many of them weren't what we'd think of today as religious. A good bunch of them weren't Christians at all and instead believed in something most today would characterize as Karma, what goes around comes around.
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Have a read through this and tell me what you think: [link]
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Ok, so it was adopted later but still no one is using it to justify anything. This is a hard theological point to make but trusting in God is different from doing something in a God's name. The reason is that we don't dare say we speak for God or know what God wants but instead it says you may carry the faith you may need that your making the right decisions, that you believe in your self that your making the right decision. It's a hard thing to explain without the context of it all and the understanding of what the government represents and who they work for, don't think of it as a motto of the government since it is not but instead think of it as the motto of the majority of people whom live in the US, a personal motto. The Government does indeed work for the citizen, a Government for the people and by the people. You make it seem as though we are carrying crosses into battle, completely missing the point that many of us aren't Christian at all, based on the words stamped on our money. There's a difference between believing and trusting in a God to give you the strength to lead your life the right way and killing someone in the name of Allah. If you did want to pin this on a western source it could've easily been Israel since they have a religious symbol on their and presumable on their military equipment. Your point would be more valid to me if In God We Trust was emblazoned on our military equipment and used to rally our soldiers but it's not. I live in New Hampshire, our motto is "Live Free or Die," does that mean we'd rather kill ourselves than obey a new seat belt law? Obviously no.
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I see your point. But just because we aren't carrying crosses into the battlefield doesnt mean we do not think we are doing the right thing by god. Many of your soldiers are Christians. And many more wear crosses. Doesn't that have some bearing on this?
In regards to your motto Live free or Die, many wars were also fought for freedom and democracy. And terrible things happened in those wars too.
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No, no one is carrying crosses into battle, except medics whom don't have weapons and tend to the medic needs of the other soldiers. It's also not the religious cross your thinking of it's the medical cross, you know red cross. I would have to say a large minority are thinking they are doing the right thing by God or doing anything by God. A very small amount of people in America are religious to that point, very few Americans even go to church even though they identify themselves as being Christians. Most people are passively religious, sometimes praying to God when in a bad situation where they need help and the rest of time forgetting about God. I can see a soldier in a tight spot or before they head out to battle asking God to get them back safe but they aren't zealots, they don't do anything in the name of God and they aren't thinking of God in the middle of doing what they were set out to do. Thinking of God in the middle of doing your job doesn't turn out well, you can't have your focus at the tasks at hand. The fact that most soldiers are likely Christians has nothing to do with this, most soldiers are soldiers for their country and I'd bet none are soldiers for their faith, there are other professions if you want to do that that are much more peaceful.
Also, you don't know much of the history of the US when your commenting so badly about it seems. Live Free or Die was a quote from New Hampshire's most famous American Revolutionary War Generals, General John Stark. The American Revolutionary War is the war in which America gained it's independence from the British rule.
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The fact still remains that IS out there. You said it yourself.
And I still believe that soldiers being Christians has EVERYTHING to do with it.
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The less than 1% have a bearing on the 99%..... I think not. They are not fighting for God, if they wanted to serve God there are other avenues such as becoming a Priest. A man of God would never be a soldier and for you to think that way means you don't understand patriotism or religion at all. You must realize there are many faiths and many of non-faith that fight in the US military, they do so for freedom and justice not for God. Also I am not an expert on every single person in the military so to say anyone in the military fights for God would be purely speculative on either of our parts but pure statistics are against your notion that we fight for any God, we fight for the freedom of people to choose a God or to choose not to believe in a God, we fight for the freedom and safety of the world and not a God.
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Another reply, sorry to leave two but..
The idea of the US fighting for the "freedom and safety of the world" is ridiculous, if you look at US foreign policy for the past 70 years you can see it clear as day. Every military action the US takes is directly tied to our nations personal interest and to portray the US as any better than any other nation that pursues its own goals and interests can only be described as overdone nationalism or grotesque self delusion.
Sorry if I come across as blunt but its unavoidable.
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Most of the US military's actions are humanitarian in nature, like delivering food, medicine, and water and also to extend it 70 years is a little far in my mind. You know that encompasses WWII? Oh we should have just let Japan, Germany, and Italy walk all over us and the rest of the world. Nazi rule for all and mass extermination for the whole world. Yeah not a great idea I'd say, sorry if that sounds blunt but it was unavoidable considering what would've happened otherwise. So sometimes defense is a good idea when called for, invasion is another thing completely and is always a bad idea unless forcefully provoked by military action which in that case would be defense. Iraq was probably a bad idea given the proximity of Syria and Iran and the fact that we weren't provoked by forceful action.
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And most of our humanitarian actions are just a bi-product they're almost never the reason we're there. Yes I know it encompasses WW2, had I wanted I could have stretched it back as far as the revolutionary war and it would have held true. US policy before we were attacked by Japan was to ignore Nazi Germany all together. Had we not been attacked at Pearl Harbour we would have never gone to war with Germany. If our government really cared about freedom it would have supported Ireland at the end of WW1 when it called for the same self determination that was given to Poland. If we cared about freedom we wouldn't have colonies like Guam and Somoa, and we wouldn't tolerate the colonies England still keeps. Our government would also support the right of Palestinians to have control over their own country. All the US foreign policy decisions are based on one principle: what will help us?
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That's the way any country is, self protective, and other wise we're a world police which shouldn't be the case. We can't fix everyone's problems. We help our allies and we help protect ourselves. Fighting for freedom and safety includes our own, it's the reason you can reply and debate with me.
You also have to realize how different the world was after WWI than what it's like now, the world wasn't as global as we think of it today. It still wasn't as global as we think of it today as it was in WWII and that explains the protectionist approach we took. The whole thing about spreading freedom across the world is a fairly new thing and it always strikes me how everyone is for freedom unless we're involved.
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I never said what America does is wrong, my point was exactly that, that America is no different than any other nation, and that to lift America onto some kind of pedastal and make it out to be some champion of freedom is absurd. And I'm tired of people saying that our soldiers are protecting our freedom, the freedoms of US citizens haven't been threatend by an external source since WW2.
You seem to be agreeing with my point but still trying to argue with me. My point was that we didn't get involved in WW2 to protect anyone else but ourselves.
And I'm not saying that we haven't helped anyone get their freedom, just that it has never been a main goal of ours just a bi-product. Not to mention when forming democracies in the world the US is always sure to use military force to ensure that the new government is pro-US regardless of what the people of these nations actually want.
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I never said what America does is wrong, my point was exactly that, that America is no different than any other nation, and that to lift America onto some kind of pedastal and make it out to be some champion of freedom is absurd. And I'm tired of people saying that our soldiers are protecting our freedom, the freedoms of US citizens haven't been threatend by an external source since WW2.
You seem to be agreeing with my point but still trying to argue with me. My point was that we didn't get involved in WW2 to protect anyone else but ourselves.
And I'm not saying that we haven't helped anyone get their freedom, just that it has never been a main goal of ours just a bi-product. Not to mention when forming democracies in the world the US is always sure to use military force to ensure that the new government is pro-US regardless of what the people of these nations actually want.
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'A man of God would never be a soldier' Have you forgotten the crusades?
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These are not the crusades sir, the crusades would be directed in a very specific geographic area which Iraq is not, Afghanistan is not, Pakistan is not, Somalia is not, Georgia is not, Djibouti is not, Philippines is not, Yemen is not, Serbia is not, Bosnia is not, Haiti is not, Kuwait is not, Panama is not, Libya is not, Chad is not, Honduras is not, Grenada is not, Korea is not, Cambodia is not, Vietnam is not, and Europe is not. Why would a man of God want to fight and kill people in these conflicts when it has nothing to do with any sort of Crusade? The US military is not a crusade force no matter what you may mistakingly think, if the US military wanted to go on a crusade it would've happened long ago but a country with freedom of religion who has no official religion would never take the side of one religion over any other and go on any holy war. We aren't the country with an official church, your looking at the wrong country for that.... it's a country that might be thought of as being more secular by most.
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It sounds like you misunderstand me.
All I am trying to get people to do, is to think about what they're doing.
Thats it.
Fine, my example of iraq is obviously a bad one (In your eyes) But dont base you entire argument on my example. Because thats all it is, and example.
And I wasnt aiming at any country in particular to begin with, but I was forced to display an example.
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Ok, I get it and said it's a good concept that's mis-aimed.
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Wow!This is incredible.It's a simple design with a powerful message.It me of a child's unfurbished play village.Like maybe the child is more perceptive than their parents realize and their trying to get a message to them.
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Wow! Thanks!
I did want to retain a fairly childish/simple look.
I like to portray complex ideas with simple images. lol.
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aside from that
God speaks to all people
whether they listen or not
granted some people do use God as an excuse and granted some people arnt as good at listening to God as they think they are
what really matters is what God is saying to you
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But what if you think god is telling you to wage war on some country? What then? How do we know its god? IS IT god?
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waging war i answered in the other comment
as for how you know its God
my old pastor came up with a great example of hearing God's voice in everyday life
imagine you sweeping a rug. you come across a chair. you choose to sweep around it instead of moving it and sweeping underneath. upon doing that a thought passes through your mind that appears a bit like a piece of advice."move the chair" is what it says why it says that is because you know if you dont you yourself will know deep down that you indeed are lazy and inconsiderate of your job (sweeping the rug)
that voice is infact God
some may call it your conscience or your shoulder angel or the act of weighing the consequences in your sub-conscience
but i know my self that it is God and he does speak to all of us on a daily basis
alot of people ignore or disregard that 'voice' and do what they want all their life (which usually leads them into trouble of some sort)
or they can listen to the wrong voice (the voice of satan) who basically tells you to do something that appeals to you although you may or maynot know that it has terrible consequences. (and you can quote me on this) they always do have terrible consequences
heh i feel like im writing an essay typing to you
you get what im trying to explain right?
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