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CascadingSerenity β I started out as a warrior, too
Published: 2012-12-23 23:02:09 +0000 UTC; Views: 24730; Favourites: 444; Downloads: 41
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Hawkheart and Yellowfang at the Moonstone.
Hawkheart isn't actually all that bad, he was really supportive and friendly towards Yellowfang.
I really don't understand why the Erins would expect him to end up in the Dark Forest. :c
Besides, when he killed Moonflower, it was to defend his herb storage. Without it, he wouldn't be able to heal his clan.
Characters belong to Erin Hunter.
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Comments: 231
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i think everyone hates hawkheart because of Bluepaw's grief over her mother's death, and usually everyone sympathizes with the protagonist of the book they're reading, so they all think that hawkheart is an evil bitch;;
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Honestly Moonflower deserved to die as she had no moral code. "Just following orders" doesn't cut it, and she was willing to give the elders and kittens a slow and painful death via disease, so really, she deserves to go to the Dark Forest as she is even worse than Mapleshade. At least she cared for kittens and only killed for revenge, as petty as it was.
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holy jesus-
i dont think she deserves to be in the dark forest, she was overall a good mother, maybe just a bit crooked on her morals at that point
if i remember correctly her and goosefeather are related so maybe she trusted him a little too much
the again it was technically pinestar/sunstarβs fault (i forgot who was leader at the time) for listening to goosefeather and therefore marching moonflower into her fate
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Cats did go to the DF for lesser reasons. Hawkfrost went in for simply conspiring murder, and not once went after kittens and elders. And remember, Moonflower allowed her kittens who should not have even been apprentices go to battle. Not THE worst mother, but I am glad she's not mine!
Yeah, true, but how far does the "just following orders" thing go? She was willing to exterminate the whole clan without thinking things through. Even Darkstripe was a wee bit smarter than that.
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Iβll admit that Moonflower was a bit stupid in that section of the book. Maybe she was painted in a better light than intended simply for being the main characterβs mother, and Bluepaw clearly loved her, so everyone thinks sheβs actually better than she is. But at least she wasnβt Rainflower, or god forbid Lizardstripe...
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Agreed. It's sad we couldn't see her in another light in any special edition yet, though TR showed her as a cocky and selfish cat. I get it perspective alters everything, and it's important to show readers an unrealiable narrator, but I feel it only works if it's made explicitly clear Bluestar's unrealiable by showing other perspectives as well.
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Poor Hawkheart, he doesn't deserve all the fucking hate! He's a good cat!
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hawkheart is a good egg and i don't get why everyone hates him so fucking much
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I 100% agree with you
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About Hawkheart.
Code says that you kill only if its necessary. This wasnt really necessary.
I mean, it was bunch of leaves. He could easily refill it.
Even if it was rightful, was rightful to tease Bluepaw?
Nope!
I mean, she did what StarClan told her!
Oh, and WindClan was defending themselves when they caused the greencough plague?
I hate him and he should rot in Dark Forest.
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Also about Hawkheart!
Not exactly a "bunch of leaves"; it's the medicine stock; it's important to the clan (especially after a battle, which ThunderClan caused for no reason).
It's not easy to find the same herbs growing in the same place at the same time. It's possible that some of the items that he had didn't grow that time of the year, or just doesn't grow that often; which makes them valuable.Β
No, it wasn't rightful for him to tease Bluepaw, but that's just his personality. Not every medicine cat is (or is required) to be fluffy and compassionate towards cats of other clans. StarClan didn't tell them to attack WindClan, crazy old bat Goosefeather did. They attacked without warning or reason, which would understandably piss off a lot of cats, enrage them, and cause them to make drastic decisions.Β
When..when did WindClan cause the greencough plague? Even if "they" caused it, it doesn't make sense to pit the blame against Hawkheart alone. o_o
Have you read the other novels that have Hawkheart in them? Like Yellowfang's Secret and Tallstar's Revenge? He's extremely loyal to his clan and has a really nice dry sense of humour. I feel like the only reason why people antagonize him so much is because they only view him through Bluestar's perspective. He's also not the first and last cat to kill during a battle...
I love Hawkheart and he should be happy in StarClan where he belongs. C:
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i sort of agree...i like him and hate him at the same time.
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Well
It was after Eclipse. Where Brightspirit took place.
I mean, I don't get how teasing an apprentice about her mom's death is your personality.
It wasn't a battle for no reason. Goosefeather got sign from StarClan. Even if it was fake, ThunderClan thought that what they did was will of StarClan.
Also for wounds you need actually cobwebs, not herbs.
I mean, Hollyleaf killed Ashfur and felt GUILTY about it. Lionblaze killed Russetfur and felt GUILTY about it.
But than again it's just one of my unpopular opinions.
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I don't understand your argument with that? I haven't read the warriors books in a while but I don't see how that has anything to do with Hawkheart? :0
Did he actually tease her about it though? I don't remember it clearly, so I looked it up in the wiki and it says he called her a "kit-warrior" and said that the fact that Moonflower was destroying their herb storage was enough reason to kill her. He didn't say anything like: 'HAHA YOUR MUM IS DED"; he was just justifying his actions and making fun of her small-ness(?)
"StarClan"; Goosefeather looked at a piece of prey and interpreted it as WindClan was going to screw them over if they didn't screw them over first. If you read Tallstar's Revenge, WindClan isn't planning anything against ThunderClan (to the best of my memory??) and that happens at relatively the same timeline as Bluestar's Prophecy.Β
Just because they did it at the will of StarClan doesn't make it right-- and it's extremely unfair on WindClan's part if it were the will of StarClan
You need herbs for infection, which can set in quickly due to bacteria in the saliva of cats (from bites) as well as the dirt from in-between cat's claws (from scratches).
Not...not every cat feels guilty after killing another? Especially after they kill someone who they genuinely thought was a threat to their clan. ie. Firestar didn't feel guilty when he killed Scourge because he did it to protect ThunderClan.Β
It's not an unpopular opinion and I'm not trying to change it. I'm just trying to get people who flat-out hate him to see that not everything is black and white and to see both sides of the story, since most people hate him solely because he killed Moonflower. :>
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I can remember it wrong.
All Im saying that if you kill someones mom, especially if s/he is very young, that leave him the heck alone.
Honestly cats didnt seem to have big problems with infection after battles. And they seemed to find herbs pretty easily, leaving the problems with catmint in ThunderClan.
Warrior code says that you shouldnt kill a cat unless its self defense or the cat is beyond warrior code. Which Scourge was. Trivia fact, in Into the Wild its mentioned numerous times that they teach apps to kill a cat. Lol. Back to the topic. Moonflower was defeated, she was leaving. So it wasnt exactly self defense. Herbs grow back, but lives dont (leaving Cinderpelt).
And even if the sign was fake, the cats trusted Gooseeather because he was a medicine cat. You cant really blame them for that. They thought that they follow StarClan.
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Okay, I whipped out my copy of Bluestar's Prophecy to doublecheck their interactions.
He didn't seek Bluepaw out to "taunt" her. She stumbled into him at the Gathering and he made a comment because she stared at him:
"'Watch out." A WindClan sneer made her eyes spin around 'It's icy in case you haven't noticed." She recognized Hawkheart at once [...] It was the first time she'd seen the WindClan cat since he killed Moonflower and the blood roared in her ears. [...] Bluepaw lifted her chin and stared at Hawkheart, refusing to flinch even when his gaze met hers. 'Well, if it isn't the kit-warrior,' Hawkheart meowed in recognition. 'Did they make you an apprentice at last?'" (155-156)
Perhaps they didn't have a problem with infection because they had the herbs to prevent it, since they weren't destroyed by another clan?Β Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
I forgot about the "beyond the code" part of the do not kill rule, so bad example. xD But anyways, bad things can happen in the midst of a battle. In the heat of the moment, Hawkheart could have lost his temper (I don't blame him because they weren't attacking just the warriors, they wereΒ destroying herbs which indirectly harms the WHOLE clan). I'm 100% sure that if the battle had been flipped and WindClan attacked ThunderClan's medicine storage and a WindClan mother was killed, nobodyΒ would have given a crap. Why? because the story was told through ThunderClan's perspective and what they see is another clan coming into their territory and shredding up their herbs for no good reason and as a reader who has sympathized with ThunderClan through the majority of the book, would not feel remorse if that WindClan warrior died. (I hope that makes sense?) Like I said, you need to look at both sides of the story; not everything is linear.Β
Like I said before, just because Goosefeather is a medicine cat doesn't make him right. Just because StarClan willed it doesn't make it right or fair, especially in the eyes of WindClan. This which would understandably cause some warriors (namely Hawkheart) to lose their temper. StarClan isn't almighty and perfect, it's literally comprised of a bunch of dead cats...dead cats who have made mistakes in the past.Β
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I was actually thinking that if WindClan has attacked and destroyed the medicine stock and Leafpool would've killed some random cat, everyone would hate her for it. Lol.
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I don't think I would? I don't like Leafpool very much to begin with but if WindClan attacked without warning and began to rip up the medicine stock (and if someone was killed) it would be WindClan I'd be upset with, not Leafpool.
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Also. As you said that people now flatly hate Hawkheart for killing Moonflower, I actually see it the other way round.
Until not too long ago I didn't realize Leafpool has so many haters lol.
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So you mean you're able to see what happened through WindClan's perspective and hate Hawkheart a lil less? :0
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I meant that I see people think that he had right to kill Moonflower rather than hate him.
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ahaha maybe not a "right", more like they see the reasoning behind why he made that choice. :>
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