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ChikitaWolf — Don't be an extremist D:
Published: 2012-03-13 00:26:08 +0000 UTC; Views: 15805; Favourites: 1320; Downloads: 49
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Sorry to a few of my not-so-stamp-inclined watchers 
I realize I've been on a bit of rant with stamps lately, haha. This should be the last though for a while, I would think!< rant >
Because it's just plain rude and obnoxious.
It goes both ways, of course. There's extremists and hate on both sides -- the religious and not religious. But really, it's extremely tiresome to find a nice piece of art with the topic of religion or no only to find someone attacking other commenters about their beliefs.
For instance: A person comments on a piece of art with religion as it's topic. They mention their beliefs, the creator responds, and they're having a convo about the religion or lack of. Then a new commentor leeches off and starts attacking one of them for what they believe in or not believe in, accusing them of things and just being outright obnoxious.
tl;dr: It's one thing to voice your opinion; it's another to be a complete ass about it.
< / rant >
Inspired by comments on my last stamp and what I've seen in the comments from recent religion / anti religion art works :V
C'mon people. Religious folk and non religious folk can get along. It's not that hard :'D If I, a sixteen year old Christian, can do it with my various wonderful friends of many beliefs or lack thereof, I'm sure the rest of ya'll can
EDIT: I realize that the stamp itself is rather broad, which is why I tried to be more specific in the artist's comments. There still seems to be some misunderstanding though, so I'll try to clear it up here.
I'm not saying that I discourage confronting people. I'm merely saying that I don't support outright attacking people. You're not going to win someone over by bursting in guns blazing and spitting out nasty things at them. All you're gonna do is make them think you're an ass. However, confronting a person in a civil manner is more likely to get them to listen to you.
EDIT2: I was wondering why I was getting constant faving, only to find that this stamp has gotten onto the second page of 24 hours
Thanks! <3 [edit3: Thanks for front page on "deviantART related" for 24 hours as well 
]EDIT4: Featured~!
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Comments: 259
I don't spend much time on people like him as SapphiraTheMongoose might have you believe. I generally just point out why they're wrong and leave it at that. That's usually enough. To completely leave them alone and never question them because they supposedly are mentally challenged is irresponsible. People buy into this BS all the time no matter how intelligent they might be in other areas of their life. You have for example otherwise brilliant people who seriously believe that an undetectable part of what makes you you will upon death be moved away from our physical reality into another realm of existence where this immaterial you will somehow suffer pain beyond your wildest imagination because you couldn't meet the impossible standards a perfect being set up for you. To simply write them of as mentally challenged is clearly not an option.
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See now here you go, you're conflating what is a provable belief with an unprovable belief. For someone to believe in a divinely accountable system of justice has no effect on their views of physics or molecular biology, whereas believing there's a whale on the moon flopping about waiting for someone to come rescue it flies in the face of several dozen inescapable facts. On the contrary, somebody's belief in space whales has no positive effect on their morality or behavior, whereas believing there's a God who judges you based upon your moral actions has real consequences on your desire to do good. Obviously you shouldn't be so quick to equate the two.
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"See now here you go, you're conflating what is a provable belief with an unprovable belief."
What the unproven and disproven has in common is that it's unreasonable to believe in both of them. Whether you believe that the sky is green or that there live fairies in the forests makes no difference to me. You may easily be able to prove that the sky isn't green, but that does not give much more credence to the idea that fairies are real.
"For someone to believe in a divinely accountable system of justice has no effect on their views of physics or molecular biology, whereas believing there's a whale on the moon flopping about waiting for someone to come rescue it flies in the face of several dozen inescapable facts."
Some of the beliefs about the life hereafter actually does affect people's views on physics and biology. There are people who think that it's not your brain that does the thinking and feeling, but an immaterial soul. That goes against known facts about how the brain function. And even if it can't ultimately be proven to some that people are dead when they're dead it's incredibly irrational to assume otherwise.
As for the afterlife justice system. It may not necessarily go against accepted facts of biology and physics but more often than not it goes against good moral principles. You have people who think that children deserve to be horribly tormented by monsters because they are impure, either by their own actions or those of their ancestors. That's morally reprehensible and I have no problem telling people like that that they are dead wrong.
"...somebody's belief in space whales has no positive effect on their morality or behavior..."
Not necessarily, no. They are however still wrong. The reasons for why someone might believe in these things is the root of the problem. The specific beliefs are often only symptoms, but by treating that you have a good chance of also treating the disease which makes people believe in improven things and worse, accept that which has already been proven wrong.
"...believing there's a God who judges you based upon your moral actions has real consequences on your desire to do good."
I wouldn't say that it influence people to do good, rather it makes people do what they're told either by their holy book, their priest, or the voices in their heads. They may consider sacrificing their son if God so command to be a good and moral thing, but it's not. This is a harmfull belief. It's far worse than any ludicrous notion of whales on the moon.
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I'm not arguing that belief in divine moral judgement is anything other than a belief. We agree, the belief taken by itself is not based upon reason, however, if there is a doctor who believes that the planet sits on the back of a giant turtle and that the world will topple over if he gives substandard care, and another doctor who believes that if he grabs a scalpel and jams it in his patients neck and than his own that his actions will be ultimately insignificant based upon logical reasoning of the vast expanse of time, Doctor A is using an unreasonable belief to do a measurable and real moral good, Doctor B is using a much more reasonable and provable belief to do evil. For that reason, an unreasonable belief can be worth believing in for the measurable and reasonable beneficial results. You use a straw man saying "Well what if God tells somebody to kill their child", as though there's any real argument to be had in that scenario, obviously it's morally evil, you don't even have to ask if it's being done for a religious reason, it doesn't matter.
"You have people who think that children deserve to be horribly tormented by monsters because they are impure, either by their own actions or those of their ancestors. That's morally reprehensible and I have no problem telling people like that that they are dead wrong."
You'd tell them that they're wrong, and then what? You'd tell that child that he will face the same eternal oblivion that mass murderers and child molesters face, and you somehow proudly hold yourself as having the moral high ground? "Why yes, because I'm telling the truth!" What's also true is that holding someone to a moral standard, usually, guess what, makes somebody more moral, especially if that standard isn't bound to subjective imperfect typically ineffectual material law. It's the reason that even though atheism has been around since theism, just applying Darwinistic theory of survival to it as a movement, it's failed in every conceivable measure compared to religion.
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I don't really care to continue this conversation here if you don't mind. It has gone way of track into a multitude of topics I really don't have the energy to adress right now. Buh bye!
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Again, all it does it make you come off as an immature little kid who likes to argue and pick fights with people and believes he's the best little smart-alec ever, and no one wants to be around that. "All I can do is express my sheer amazement over his stupidity, explain the actual facts, and leave him shaking my head in disbelief." You could think it as much as you want, but people will think you're more interested in how big and cool they think you think you are and won't like you very much if you're always trying to show them how oh so stupid they are.
I don't see the harm in just walking away without being rude or trying to make someone else feel like an idiot..
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I don't understand why you see it as if I come of as an arrogant kid who always has to be right. It seems to me that you're making a rushed judgement about me based on extremely little and selective information here. Why are you doing that?
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That's because some people are more sensitive than others in what they feel is "attacking". o3o
I figured you got where I was coming at, so I used "etc" so I wouldn't have to list things that were already understood; but if you want more detailed, it would be name-calling (in the sense of "dumbass", "dickhead", "Bible/atheist fag") and/or belittling them (treating them like they're the scum of the earth). I'm sure there's more, but those are the most common I've seen. 
Yes, it doesn't always work, but from what I've seen, it works more often than not. It really depends on the individual in the end.
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What if the belief in question is morally repulsive? What if someone believes the philosophies of, say, the ku klux klan? Can we attack them then?
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I don't think attacking them is going to make them change their thoughts
Confronting them with logic in a civil manner? Yeah, they're more likely to listen to you. Attacking them with name-calling in an obnoxious way? They're probably not gonna listen to a word you say.
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Who said anything about changing their minds?
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So you're just attacking them for the lulz and not trying to make a point?
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If a person if far too removed from reason, they become immune to reason. Why then can I not, in passing, mock them? I'm not arguing that it's a noble thing to do, I just don't see what's wrong with it.
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I've never met an individual that was "far too removed from reason", so I don't think I'd be able to give a proper response to that.
In the end, it's your choice whether you wish to mock them or not. I'm just voicing my own opinion on the matter, as I find that treating people as I'd like to be treated works more often when it comes to discussion or debate on certain topics.
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I see, and I agree. Of course it is always better to be calm, civil, and clear-minded when discussing opposing ideas. However, as rare as it may be, I have come across people with the most absurd and delusional beliefs imaginable, absolutely nothing will lead them to reason. I've spoken to people who still believe the earth is flat. When told about sea/air travel, or shown video footage of the spherical earth from space, they claimed it was faked. I've also spoken to creationists who, after being shown fossil records or the similarity between the human and chimpanzee genomes, claimed it was all a hoax. Or, worse yet, claimed that Satan created fossils to turn us away from god.
After which, I mocked them, and moved on. From that, I don't think anything is lost.
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Wow
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Only if they act on those beliefs, words are mostly harmless.
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Charles Manson never harmed anyone, he used his words to get others to do it.
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Yeah, attacking peple for their believes is wrong.
Except when they believe in extremism.
Wait...
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There's a difference between outright attacking and confronting
A person's not going to want to listen to someone who flames them down. They'll be more inclined to listen to someone who treats them like a human being.
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Peace be to you,
I fully agree with you.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion ^.^ faved!
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Yeah, stamps are bit small for all the words to make this a more clear, 'cause my first thought was "What about people who believe in rape and pedophilia?" Because then I have to disagree, and will outright attack someone for those beliefs.
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Yeah, the big downside of stamps
I don't think attacking them is going to make them want to listen to you though. Confronting them with logic and in a civil manner, however, will make them more likely to take your words into thought (even if that is a less fun approach for most
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all too true. Jesus preached non-violence, but I doubt I'm nearly that level headed......
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Me neither, honestly
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Or just a willingness to let evil go unpunished.
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Depending on the severity of it
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rape and pedophilia don't really have "levels" .. I don't think you can only have survived a slight case of rape... =\ jussayin.
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Oh, okay, I see where you're coming from now
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The world need more people like you.
It's too bad there are so many ignorant people out there.
Sorry you have to put up with them.
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Meh, we all have to
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Honestly I read the stamp and didn't think religion, I thought about how I have to go to court for English tomorrow on whether or not Mark Twain was racist in Huck Finn T_T I hate arguments, so I'm so not looking forward to this XP
Plus I have to write an essay on it! Double-fail D:
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Haha thanks XD
We ended up losing
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Yup. It's partially because one of our attorneys got "sick" last minute and left us hanging XP
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Yeesh, that sucks D;; Well, at least it's over now, yeah?
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I can't top ~darkparadise27's comment so I'll simply agree! lol x)
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Thank you for this! It makes me happy to see people being reasonable and respectful. We should celebrate different points of view, not freak out about them.
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Exactly! It never hurts to challenge a point-of-view, but Lordy, no one's going to listen to you if you're a complete ass about it
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...I've run out of smart things to say, so I'm just going to celebrate.
WOOOOO!
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