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cobra-farms — Pinto Basics

Published: 2011-03-30 16:28:16 +0000 UTC; Views: 3557; Favourites: 100; Downloads: 35
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Description SO. A lot of people have problems making their pintos look like real pintos. I made this tutorial to help out. THIS IMAGE GOES ALONG WITH TEXT FOUND HERE. To make the most sense of the graphic, read on!

DISCLAIMER: There is a lot of variation in pintos and it's hard to say that a pattern will never happen. BUT, there are common patterns of patterns (sorry) that occur, and if you stick to these basic, common patterns then the chance that your horse is realistic will increase dramatically! I have not dealt with TOVERO or SPLASH overo in this tutorial, to simplify things. EVEN in tovero and splash, though, you will (very very likely) NOT see the patterns listed as "inaccurate." While some of these patterns MIX both frame overo and tobiano, they are mixed in a way that does not tend to occur in real life.

TOBIANO
I like to think of tobiano horses as "color on white." The color will have the bulging edges, while the white will have the caved in edges. Obviously, if you are doing a minimal tobiano, you will probably want to do the color first. BUT, overall, it helps to think of the color as the blob, and the white as the more refined part.

Edges: The edges of the color on a tobiano's spots will usually be smooth and round. The white will be the pointy part! In a tovero, the color and white can take on the appearance of a tobiano pattern, but the edges can be more jagged.

FRAME OVERO
I think of frame overos as white on color. Typically, the white on the frame overo will start as a small spot on the horse's belly, side of barrel, or side of neck. From there, the white can expand upwards and outwards. BUT, the white on a frame overo will rarely (not never) cross the back. In splash overos, the white crosses the back more frequently (if the splash is large). Keep in mind that in splash overos the white STILL starts from the belly and moves up (I see many horses with only white backs and the white forms itself like an overo--but this will probably only happen in tobianos).

Edges: The edges of the white on a frame overo will be more jagged than on a tobiano. The white will still tend to be the concave, pointy color and the color will tend to be more round and look like it's "eating away" at the white. In overos, it is more common to see little "swiss cheese holes" cut out of the white (forgot to make an example of this). In tobianos, the dots of color on white are known as "paw prints" and tend to cluster in little groups, rather than in overo where it looks as though the white just got too close to another part of white, leaving a colored gap. You probably won't see many round colored spots completely isolated in white on an overo. The swiss cheese hole appearance usually is more like a peninsula-- attached to color on one side. The isolated spots you see will probably have more squared off, triangular, or jagged edges.

INACCURATE PINTOS
I gathered some examples from DA of pinto patterns that made me go "what?" Here, I'll try to explain as best I can what is inaccurate about these patterns and how they can be made more accurate. I was planning on illustrating this, and I still might but we'll seeee.

1 - Top Left
This horse combines typical overo and tobiano patterns in a strange way. The spot on the neck appears to be an overo spot, while the large middle white is more tobiano-esque. The white spot beside the belly spot could occur in either pattern. The spot on the hind end is also more overo, as it has a bit of color in the middle.

What would I do? I would probably convert it to a tobiano. To do so, I would extend the neck spot up to that it began from the horse's neck. I would make the black outline more convex. The spot on the hind end would be made to have typically tobiano edges as well. The black spot in the middle could either be converted into paw print spots or removed. I would incorporate the small white dot into the larger belly spot.

2 - Bottom Left
This horse almost looks like a reverse tovero! You will almost to never see a horse with a solid head and white ears. White ears will only occur when a horse has a lot of white. The white chest is also rare, as typically the chest on minimal overos or tobianos is colored. I like to think of the chest "shield" as one of the last spots to "go away" when covered by white. Meaning, the horse will have to have a lot of white before the chest color turns white. The spot on the back is very typically tobiano, however, the edges are inverted. The belly spot is very frame overo, but again, the edges do not scream frame. The spot on the hind is also tobiano and could work as is, but less round edges (pointier/squarer white) would make it even clearer.

What would I do? This one is hard, mostly because there's no very simple fix. First, you'd have to decide tobiano or overo. I'd probably go tobiano on this one. 1. Color the face black. 2. Fill in the chest black. 3. Connect the white on the withers to the white on the barrel. 4. Fix the edges.

3 - Middle
This horse is interesting because it is kind of a reverse overo, but can easily be converted into a tovero. The "overo" effect is coming from the shape of the edges of the color, which are inverted and should be reversed.

What would I do? I would make the edges of the color convex Blobbier! I never though I would say blobbier-- most pintos I see are TOO blobby! Anyway, this horse will have a kind of unusual tovero pattern as the black on the neck is atypical, but I'm not sure that it would be impossible to find a horse like this.

4 - Top Right
Again, we have the white ears on colored horse. I like to call this guy the "fantasy pinto." You won't see swirly lines like on this guy's withers. You also will probably not see triangular, sharp, pointy things like on his legs. If the legs have markings like this on them, they will either be attached to white from the bottom or from the top-- the white won't just appear as a pattern on the legs in a tobiano. The black-in-white on the withers is also unlikely, although there may be paw print marks in there. I don't want to say the black in the withers is impossible, but again, highly highly unlikely.

What would I do? I'd just turn this into a minimal tobiano. 1. Color the ears black, 2. Fill in the legs, 3. Chop off the swirl and make it a simple point, 4. Fill the withers in with white.

5 - Bottom Right
Hmmmammamam. I don't know what's going on here, but it looks like an inverted splash overo or reverse frame. The white on the chest is the same issue as #2. The way the black is concave implies overo, however, an overo's back will rarely be white like that. The spot on the hip is overo-esque and the spot on the neck is tobiano-esque.

What would I do? This one's hard because it could almost go either way. If you invert the colors and make the white black/black white, then remove the hip spot, you have a decent frame overo. If you leave the colors, filling in the chest black and making the outlines of the black convex/blobby could make a decent tobiano. If you go to tobiano, the back and hip spot would probably have to be connected.


THINGS TO REMEMBER:
Overo will USUALLY not cross the back.
Minimal overo will start at the belly, neck, or hip (not considering legs here)
Splash overo also starts with white at the bottom of the horse, moving upwards.
Tobiano with medium to max white will USUALLY have a colored head, chest, and hip (which can extend to side of barrel).
Minimal tobiano will USUALLY have either a neck, wither or butt spot that start on the horse's back. They tend to end in a "point" or squared off edge

PHEW. That was a lot. Hope it helped, please do ask questions!




EDITED TO ADD SOME FUN THINGS. Once you get good at pinto patterns, you can "pick out" which parts are overo and which are tobiano etc. It will almost always be VERY CLEAR. Here are some examples of LESS CLEAR horses! I thought they would help illustrate some exceptions to the "rules that aren't really rules" that this tutorial gives. Interesting to note, I only found these by searching things like "unique pinto markings" or "cool paint horse."

Foal on left - [link]
This guy has really interesting combo of markings, but can you see how it still kind of fits the guidelines? This guy probably has both frame and splash over and likely tobiano as well. You can see how there might be splash by the pointy black area on his back.

[link]
Just to show that things like this DO happen sometimes, but again, are very rare.

[link]
This is one of the most un-guideline fitting horse I could fine. Basically, it does have areas where the white bulges out rather than the color. This might be caused by the splash gene. Interesting to note, even though there is white on this guy's face, his ears are still dark! Ears are almost always dark when around dark!!
Related content
Comments: 44

WhiteChocolateHippo [2011-06-08 04:29:12 +0000 UTC]

This is great! Very informational. But what about sabino? Does it even count as a pinto coloring?

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cobra-farms In reply to WhiteChocolateHippo [2011-06-08 04:33:22 +0000 UTC]

i believe it is traditionally considered pinto, but i'm not up to date on the technical genetic type stuff. only the most basic of basics were included here

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WhiteChocolateHippo In reply to cobra-farms [2011-06-08 04:46:33 +0000 UTC]

Okay, thank you very much!

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Posiitive [2011-04-03 23:02:42 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for posting this It is some great information!

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GhastlyFarewell [2011-03-31 01:50:41 +0000 UTC]

In the "inaccurate" section, that middle "white" paint with the black, I've seen a horse pretty darn similar to that at a trail riding place in Vermont. =o

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cobra-farms In reply to GhastlyFarewell [2011-03-31 02:09:45 +0000 UTC]

The main thing that you have to be aware of is that I'm also referring to subtler differences regarding the shapes of the edges of the spots, not just where the white is! The first one is the most likely ARRANGEMENT of colors, like, white here black there, but the SHAPES are highly unlikely.

EDGES are just as important as WHERE the white/color is!

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GhastlyFarewell In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-31 04:24:38 +0000 UTC]

Ooooh got it.

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abetzi [2011-03-30 23:23:15 +0000 UTC]

I'm really glad you made this! I'm all for realism on HArpg... I don't know if I'd use the word "inaccurate," I probably would have just said "unlikely" (except for maybe the top right, heh), but whatever (; Kudos!

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cobra-farms In reply to abetzi [2011-03-30 23:29:00 +0000 UTC]

i say inaccurate, because really they are. i am not only talking about where the color is, but how it is shaped. you won't see horses with these blobby markings, or a horse with the overo markings inverted like that.

find me a horse that looks like any of those (i mean REALLY) and i'll give you $100

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abetzi In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 23:54:01 +0000 UTC]

Well I mean, the barn I ride at owns, breeds, and shows horses at the American Paint Horse Association World Shows, so I've seen some pretty unique coat patterns, and that's why I would not call any of them impossible, except for maybe the top two.

I understand what you're saying about the shapes though, highly unlikely.

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cobra-farms In reply to abetzi [2011-03-31 02:10:18 +0000 UTC]

Nowhere did I call anything impossible, maybe reread my disclaimer

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labsbykibam [2011-03-30 21:55:45 +0000 UTC]

for the first inaccurate pinto, they could also say the horse has both tobiano and overo, correct? instead of altering the horse itself

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cobra-farms In reply to labsbykibam [2011-03-30 22:56:41 +0000 UTC]

nope. that's where a lot of people get mixed up. tobiano and overo do NOT combine as literally as people think. they combine in a number of different ways, but not just overo spot here, tobiano spot here. it's tricky to figure out and often hard to explain, but i can 95% guarantee you that you will not find a horse with markings like the inaccurate ones i have presented.

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labsbykibam In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 23:33:23 +0000 UTC]

ok :3 thankyou for clearing it up! <3

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cobra-farms In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 23:20:22 +0000 UTC]

forgot to mention, that here i am taking into account the EDGES and DIRECTION of the color/white as well. you may see a horse with spots in those colors in those places, but NOT in those shapes.

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OlympianGonnaBe [2011-03-30 21:49:49 +0000 UTC]

This is awesome Not sure if it's correct but I always remerer that overos have "wilder" marking and tobianos look more smooth edged(not as jagged as overos)

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cobra-farms In reply to OlympianGonnaBe [2011-03-30 22:56:51 +0000 UTC]

good way to think about it

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Liebegirl [2011-03-30 20:18:42 +0000 UTC]

This is cool. I've seen so many inaccurate paints on here that there can be no doubt that things like this are needed. Actually, I was thinking about doing a series of my own on different white markings, how they generally seem to interact, and my suggestions for how to do them realistically (what brushes and what modes, etc.). I don't suppose you would take exception to me doing that similar set of tutorials?

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cobra-farms In reply to Liebegirl [2011-03-30 20:23:19 +0000 UTC]

go for it! the more the merrier. there are so many things i wasn't able to cover on this or things that weren't addressed clearly. the way patterns interact is so hard to explain

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Liebegirl In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 20:26:09 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. And yeah, pattern interactions are nuts and every time you think you've found a solid rule for how they behave, you find an exception to that rule... so it will be more guidelines than actual rules But yeah, glad you don't mind. I have to say, I really appreciate how you show what common HARPG patterns are NOT correct... so many great artists seem to think that those patterns are perfectly legitimate. x.x

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cobra-farms In reply to Liebegirl [2011-03-30 20:35:13 +0000 UTC]

heheh yeah. i think you have to develop an eye for it by just looking carefully at tons and tons of pintos. but for people who don't want to do that, following basic guidelines will keep you pretty safe

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Liebegirl In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 22:15:24 +0000 UTC]

;D Yeah. I always find that it's best to base your patterns off photos, because then, whatever else is going on, or whatever mistakes you may have made with genetics, you at least KNOW that that particular pattern IS possible.

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cobra-farms In reply to Liebegirl [2011-03-30 22:57:31 +0000 UTC]

exactly. also, whenever i'm doubtful about whether the horse i've made is a tobiano or a tovero, i always go with tovero to be safe. many, many tobianos are actually toveros!

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Liebegirl In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-31 05:32:42 +0000 UTC]

That's always a good idea. After all, sabino and splash are always slipping in under the radar.

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NativeHorseStables [2011-03-30 19:08:38 +0000 UTC]

this is SO helpful!!! great job!!

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nds-stock [2011-03-30 18:10:51 +0000 UTC]

This is a very nice tut, i really like how you clearly explained the difference and provided very clear examples.... and put the majority of everything into text.

The top left one reminded me of a belted cow lol

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cobra-farms In reply to nds-stock [2011-03-30 19:27:01 +0000 UTC]

thanks! he does look like a cow

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weezapony [2011-03-30 17:40:09 +0000 UTC]

hmmm.
I believe all mine are pretty accurate, although my two young ones may be a bit off. I know the edges on Calli's marking are a bit odd as well.

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cobra-farms In reply to weezapony [2011-03-30 17:46:48 +0000 UTC]

i think all your pintos are perf

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weezapony In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 17:50:17 +0000 UTC]

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billygoatsgruff [2011-03-30 17:06:22 +0000 UTC]

Tobino horses (from what I've seen) generally have white on their legs 98% of the time.

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cobra-farms In reply to billygoatsgruff [2011-03-30 17:12:26 +0000 UTC]

i ignored legs in this tut, but yes, toby's do tend to have white legs! it is possible to find ones without white though, especially minimal ones.

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WoozleT [2011-03-30 16:51:26 +0000 UTC]

Question:
If it is a mixed pinto (tovero I guess) could it appear as the innacurates do?

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cobra-farms In reply to WoozleT [2011-03-30 17:08:39 +0000 UTC]

it's highly unlikely. a tovero will usually look like a tobiano, but with overo edges. it's actually hard to tell a lot of tobianos and toveros apart, since many horses with both genes look very much like tobianos.

a tovero usually will not have white on the back unless it's a very high white tobiano-esque one. it's kind of hard to explain, but there are certain ways in which the genes interact and none of them really look like the inaccurate examples.

these are the only pictures i could find of toveros i could find that MAYBE could vaguely look like the inaccurate ones (i would say the 1st one in this case is more likely than any of the others).

[link]
[link]

as you can see, the chest shield is still there, regardless of what's going on in the middle. another thing to think about is that these pictures are drawings!

this is the most similar to a confusing-looking mix of patterns that i could find in a real life horse:

[link]

Again, in pintos many things aren't absolute. But there are definite common elements that make some appear more realistic than others.

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WoozleT In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 17:54:34 +0000 UTC]

When I said tovero, I meant very liberally You should do more of these though, for the other pinto genes! Very useful

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cobra-farms In reply to WoozleT [2011-03-30 19:26:43 +0000 UTC]

the other pinto genes confuse me too much! i've gotten to the point where i can say "this works" or "this doesn't," but trying to explain why makes my brain hurt.

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DreamingOfHorses67 [2011-03-30 16:48:09 +0000 UTC]

YAYYYY none of my pintos are incorrect well except for maybe this one [link] I'm not sure about the back of her ear..is it possible for it to be white? It's not even the whole ear it's like a small patch there...

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cobra-farms In reply to DreamingOfHorses67 [2011-03-30 17:17:04 +0000 UTC]

this horse actually confused me a little when i went to register it
it probably wouldn't have white on the ears unless it's heavily influenced by the frame gene, which it kind of could be, but honestly i'm just not sure. i don't think i've ever seen white ears on a horse that didn't have a lot of white around the head area...

the 3 spots on the neck are also a little confusing, but i wouldn't say totally unlikely. i think the major thing that was throwing me off was the direction of the white edges. if i mentally make the edges into typically tobiano edges it makes more sense, although i would probably make this horse a tovero because of the organization of the belly and neck spots.

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DreamingOfHorses67 In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 17:56:40 +0000 UTC]

mmm. I get it .-. Any tips for changing into a tobiano? because her mother is homozygous tobiano and her dad doesn't have any paint genes so she can't really be a tovero xD I think her other side is fine though

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cobra-farms In reply to DreamingOfHorses67 [2011-03-30 19:48:29 +0000 UTC]

okay, so, i tried to use 2 diff colors so it was easier to see the changes i made. not sure if it ended up helping.

here i tried to change the least:
[link]
i would still have trouble calling this a tobiano and not a tovero

this one would more definitely be tobiano, but requires more changing
[link]

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DreamingOfHorses67 In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 21:29:40 +0000 UTC]

is that better? [link]

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cobra-farms In reply to DreamingOfHorses67 [2011-03-30 21:36:32 +0000 UTC]

that looks much better
if you wanted more brown, you can add more on the belly. like if you wanted to connect a circle of brown to the circle of brown near the end of her belly that would work. just seeing what will keep it as close to the original as possible

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DreamingOfHorses67 In reply to cobra-farms [2011-03-30 21:57:51 +0000 UTC]

alrightyy thank you so much!

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cobra-farms In reply to DreamingOfHorses67 [2011-03-30 19:46:11 +0000 UTC]

i did some (non red) lining of her pattern that ill upload if you dont mind!

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