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danlev β Eclipse Change Log: June 26, 2019
Published: 2019-06-26 23:37:20 +0000 UTC; Views: 17789; Favourites: 100; Downloads: 0
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Why couldn't there be an option for both?? Like Toyhou.se have profile building blocks but allow for advanced coding as well, within reason.Β
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Y'know, plenty of sites have done it, why not have HTML as an available option for the folk that have it? Because at the moment, it can do more than the editor can. That way, folk like me who put tonnes of time into using HTML to make a nice profile can keep it, and folk that can't do HTML can still have nice profiles. At the moment, eclipse completely breaks my profile, and simply doesn't have the ability to do what HTML can- for example, resizing images, and using them as hyperlinks.
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* Copy & Paste from my comment in my journal, because staff doesn't care*
Even though I do not use html/CSS/Free Code (well, maybe a "basic html" sometimes), I think that removing this feature is a really huge mistake!Β Β I know there are people that basically make and use this in dA, like another way of making art.... That's so sad, it makes me sad and somewhat angry.... They create, they want to create... I think that many customization options are ok for those who don't know how to use html or CSS... butΒ I guess they're pretty limited for these creators who know and make stuff with html/css... I think this is a limit to the creationΒ
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"Not everyone knows HTML and CSS..."
Before I came onto DeviantArt, I knew nothing about HTML/CSS, never knew it was a thing until 2017 when I found out about profile codes made with HTML; two years later, I can type basic HTML, read and combine references and premade codes to create something new (like I did on my ToyHou.se profile) and can read CSS, all thanks to you, staff/developers of DeviantArt, for allowing HTML/CSS on here. Removing this will prevent others from learning HTML/CSS and not finding how great it is to create an interactive code using their imagination and their keyboard.
"We don't think it's fair for a community of artists, that requiring a technical skill allows them to make profiles look better [than] artists without these skills -- or without the time to learn." "Our goal with the new custom box is to allow you to customize it through an editor that anyone can use."
If you think it's unfair to require some knowledge to make beautiful profiles, then do you think it's fair to limit others who can? I honestly hate using premade things that I can't customize to my full extent, it almost feels like I'm given a craft box and I can only use the stuff in it, but the contents are just boring and have zero personality. Having access to HTML is like using that same box plus my own supplies to expand on that, to make it more unique and special for me. I also don't see a real excuse as to why you can't easily add an HTML/CSS-mode button on the custom widget, or even add onto that and allow word wrapping. You can so easily have both, this is a petty excuse to remove HTML/CSS.
"The new editor can even [allow] artists to do advanced functions that HTML didn't even allow."
I hope you realize that you, the staff/developers of DeviantArt, were the ones to restrict HTML: without core, you cannot add backgrounds, that's on you; without core, you can't have CSS journal skins (which allow SO MUCH MORE than the new editor could ever have) to add to your profile, that's on you; and so much more restrictions on HTML that you did. Please don't act like you can't remove the restrictions; when I had core, I was able to experience what I've said above hands-on. All the restrictions were on you that you did (mostly to give more reasons to have core membership).Β
"any of the HTML customizations are made from "hijacking" DeviantArt's existing CSS classes, which is never a good practice. [Every] time we need to change something, for any reason, it can potentially break everyone's profiles. This has happened several times in the past -- we've adjusted some of DeviantArt's CSS, and it caused people's custom boxes to break."
While this may be true and part valid, this is not a valid excuse to remove HTML/CSS. Updates almost always break any themes/codes of any kind, it's inevitable, but HTML/CSS codes can be fixed and repaired to work again. Yes, it may take some time and learning what may be new, but it can be done. Sometimes these updates that break the codes may encourage people to try to change to something better than before!Β
I see your comment/reply explaining why you're removing HTML/CSS as petty excuses. There is no reason to remove HTML/CSS; we have the internet, we have access to learn HTML/CSS if we so wished, and there are groups/posts/tutorials here on how to use it in our profiles; by removing HTML/CSS you are limiting our creative freedom to fully express who we are and personalize our pages, and you can so easily add both an HTML/CSS mode and still have some premade stuff; the only reason why HTML/CSS is so limited right now is because you put restrictions on them; and lastly, just because an update breaks some HTML/CSS codes doesn't mean you should straight up remove it! This is straight-up bull-crap and just excuses, nothing that really explains the true reason. Please bring back HTML/CSS in DeviantArt Eclipse, because without it many of us will leave and retreat to other sites.
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I wholeheartedly agree.
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^ A thousand times this.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This
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y e s yes a million times yes
I'D RLLY suggest you submit this via the feedback function so they will more likely see this!!
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sadly the character limit through there is 500 and i'm sure i've long passed that 500 character limitΒ Β
unless you mean another feedback option other than the one through eclipse?
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yeah, i probably could, but personally, i find it easier to have a bigger character limit over trying to submit multiple feedback forms; the 500 character limit is fine if you're just asking what we do/don't like, but adding the "why" the character limit should be in the thousands range because sometimes the why is very lengthy for some people or they have a lot to complain about and barely have any space to add the why
also, while i know you're not danlev , i hope you don't mind me apologizing for sounding passive-aggressive/aggressive in the rant/"essay" i sent earlier; i'm very passionate about HTML/CSS, and since DA and its users were the ones to teach me about it, i got very disappointed to hear it's officially not going to be in DA Eclipse, and to hear the "dumb" reasons as to why, i got ticked because firstly i wouldn't expect a staff member of DA--who's expected to be logical and professional--to give such "stupid" reasons/excuses and secondly to me they weren't valid reasons at all. i'm sorry if i came off passive-aggressive/aggressive, it was partly an in-the-moment kind of thing, and i'm curious to hear if there are other reasons that may justify DA Eclipse's removal of HTML/CSS!
small ps: the quotes around dumb/stupid are there because of lack of a better word; i'm not the best with my words i'll admit
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Hope they respond.
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wait scratch that danlev too since he wrote this post and has feedback open on his page as well
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hmm.. in that case I would send it directly to one of the main mods, be it spyed or Heidi and better yet maybe a few other ones
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Ugh amen
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Preach! They are only excluding artists who've ACTUALLY helped and build this community more than any site and DA could, yet they'd rather toss these artists out for lazy people who can't be bothered learning to code. :/
#learntocode Β
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Preach! Like, I know/knew little to nothing about coding long ago before I got core for the first time, but I used tutorials and what not from people who took the time to make those to help others. Itβs just like those people who do not read what people want on their profiles such as FAQ, wanting replies to featured comment only to keep page clean, etc.
Itβs a shame and absolutely disgusting they are ruining careers and peopleβs livings/income on here and driving people away.
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Indeed, I'm still having to learn a lot of code on here that I still haven't discovered since three years, yet at least I get to learn how these things work. It is ashame DA is destroying people's careers over lazy people who can't be bothered learning to code anyways, and they claim to be a place for ALL artists alike. *Snorts*
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Same, I still have much to learn and only know the basics. Like
dang have you seen some of these people's profiles? They seem to have
so much coding put into them that I haven't scrapped surface of!
Yeah, ikr? It is not only destroying people who make stuff for profiles,
but pixel art and a whole bunch of other different types of artists. All
that hard work gone to waste. Nothing peeves me off more than lazy
people being focused on and ruining over those who have given a shit toΒ
read and learn as well as spend hours if not days coding their profiles!
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+100000000000000
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this is the worst idea for your website... we pay for core ONLY for the HTML profiles.
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Don't fucking remove html and css :/
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Not everyone knows how to code, that's true. I learned a little HTML before I joined DA and that's helped me a lot on this site whenever I use pre-made code that others offer for free. I could alter the code here and there to make it unique to me and uniqueness is a big part of DA. This will discourage many from learning HTML 
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So you're updating the site to make it 'more fair,' thus making it immensely unfair to those that have collectively spent millions of hours and/or dollars on expressing themselves. Go take a look at my profile, with Eclipse off. Does it look like it was easy or quick to code?
And furthermore... does it look like something I want gone in favor of a dumbass banner, just because others don't want to learn coding or can't? If they don't want to, they don't have to, and that's literally it.
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I feel you. I spent a lot of time tinkering with code I bought from another DA user, some times breaking it and having to start fresh, and spent hours getting the right colors and even programming in new color settings that were not in the original file pack so that I could use them to match my backgrounds.Β Than all of the time setting up custom boxes and page dolls.... Makes me sad to think that all of that work is going to just go down the drain.
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"More fair" That seems to me like more equal. And that seems to me like the want all our things to look alike.
Powers that be: Go take a look at her profile with Eclipse off. Then look at it with Eclipse on. Not pleasant.
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this site was about self expression!
how in the world is it smart to get rid of something that is part of how we express ourselves????
you guys have just killed this website.
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I really don't want to come off as someone problematic but it sounds like you're getting rid of it because you're sick of fixing the code every time you adjust css and the custom boxes break.... really, I don't have the time or patience to learn to draw in general but I stay because I enjoy the art. Me, a non-artist can use html, while you're getting rid of it because not everyone knows it ? This is an art site, not everyone knows how to make certain art types and that's fine. Don't take away freedom of expression and a great feature because of this. It's worth the work and the bug fixes, people will stay and appreciate the effort put into it. Please listen to your audience like you claim you are doing.
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So can we get rid of the βbeautiful artβ too cause itβs easy?
/s
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learning to do html is as easy as a simple google search, danlev. where do you think i learned it from?
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Y'all realize the #1 reason people even pay for CORE is the ability to use journal skins and customize their pages as they please, yes? "Disappointing" is an understatement and that explanation is such BS. So we, a community of artists whose whole thing is freely expressing and sharing our creativity and uniqueness, are being forced into a dull box because some people don't have the same skills as us? What's next, are we going to limit those who can paint in photorealism because that's not "fair" to "Β artists without these skills -- or without the time to learn"? Of course not, because that's ridiculous and so is that "explanation".
Even that point aside, how is that fair to an artist whose art IS coding/graphic design/etc? They no longer can display their work. Plus, with the amazing support, free resources and tutorials provided by the community, literally anyone can currently have a customized profile -- no skill required. At all. In fact, deviantART provided me with my first taste of HTML and CSS coding. Without it, I wouldn't know anything about those languages.Β Β If you want to help those who don't understand CSS/HTML by providing a way to customize the page without it, that's great. But to limit everyone else is just inexcusable.Β
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did deviantart not start as a community for customisation? is limiting customization not against the entire concept of deviantart?
from everything i've messed with on custom boxes, you cannot do nearly the same as you currently can do.
most people only buy core for the html/css, so i imagine this won't be great for your subscribers and certainly a bad decision for your users. a lot of your users don't even want eclipse to begin with, which i agree with anyway.
the new site is a lot laggier on my computer, it's also a lot more straining on my eyes. if you're going to force a shitty design on everyone, you could at least keep one of the most beloved features you have.
if you don't want then make a dual what you see is what you get OR html/css, like toyhou.se. and as for the hijacked css classes? how about you add real html/css support? that would make it significantly more accessible (it's easier to learn pure css/html), and help solve the issue of the skills to begin with since tutorials from ANYWHERE on the internet, of which there are literally thousands, would be able to work.
tutorials, premades, all of those exist for a reason. for people who can't code.
you guys are just continuing the ongoing trend of the internet, forcing decisions which noone wants, specifcally ones which hinder the users. it's awful.
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staff will ignore this because theyre gay but we all know youre a chad
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Literally all of the replies on this comment say what I want to, along with thousands of other people.
The jist? Let us code. Many of us learned it for a reason, and catering to the people who are lazy and refuse to learn does not help anybody. This is a mistake.
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Dude this is wack. Like yea, not everyone is gonna know how to code but who cares! Plus people have custom pre-made coding users can use for free that works well. Also saying its not fair for a community of artist is the worse resining you could use. By taking away HTML it makes it not far for artist who make money on this site by making coding, page dolls, est. No one who has been on this site for a long time wants eclipse. What da has currently works fine, their is no reason to change it.
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If you're having a birthday party, and you have a big cake and everyone is excited and loves cake, (AND for the past 10+ years you've always brought cake) but then you learn that 50% of the people coming are allergic to cake, you do not throw away the cake. You go out, buy some pies and cookies too, and put them on the table with the cake.Β
I think this is the main issue with removing the html and css. It is something that is a huge part of customization on this site, and has become an entire community. People make layouts, buttons, stamps, borders banners ect. Its an entire "thing" and almost every user is effected in some way, either by using custom little bullets that are apples and bounce up and down, all the way to core users who construct elaborate profile layouts with multiple boxes that are filled with custom backgrounds, columns, links and embedded music players.Β
The problem isn't that 50% of people are allergic to cake, the problem is that you want to take the cake away from people who love it instead of just adding pie and cookies as well.
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+1
I could not have given a better example if I tried :') I love cake...
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i absolutely agree with this! my html codes are the most popular thing i've made, my most popular code having 11k views and 1.2k favorites and being my most popular "deviation," plus da actually helped me learn html
while ~50% of people have little to no knowledge of html, they can learn from others who know and can fiddle with it on da like i did
i don't see how they have to straight up remove html instead of adding it, they can add it in so easily too and because of how the custom widget is set up when you click edit da could add a propper html/css work area with word wrapping
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Um, not to jump into a random conversation, but--
Learning CSS has been on my to-do list for a while now because I really liked the idea of editing my profile more, and I've picked up some HTML through osmosis on this website Example: you have no idea how happy I was to learn how to do this in the comment box instead of doing it in Word and then pasting it in Although that is a cool feature that I hope gets preserved.Β So on the list of things I want to do when I graduate and have something approaching spare time again is learn coding.
Which is the point I'm trying to get to: it might be a technical skill, but a community of artists is used to getting something if they put a little effort into it.Β Coding may be a technical skill, but all it needs is a little effort.Β Telling people that you're removing a feature that only takes some effort to learn to make it easier for more people may feel like a good thing, but at the same time it can come off as insulting because people might read it as you not believing they're smart enough/appealing to the lowest common denominator (which never works, in my observations).
I also wonder if there isn't a simple solution to the 'editing CSS = broken profiles' issue--like including a section in updates relating to edits in CSS?Β Not sure.
Point is, people have done some very pretty things with DA's base features, which in and of itself is an art, but one that uses technical tools--would you penalize someone for uploading art they made using Autodesk or some other technical program?Β Art is in the eye of the beholder, remember, and if the end result is artistic, who has the right to critique the tools used to get there, so long as the process harms no one?
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"one of the reasons we removed HTML is because it makes it easier for people to use. Not everyone knows HTML and CSS, and they shouldn't have to to create a beautiful profile."
Soooo have the option to turn HTML/CSS on and off? Those that lack the knowledge but what a 'pretty' profile can use the system in place that you've made right now.
But the rest of us that have literally spent YEARS using HTML and CSS can still use it if we choose too.
And the 'easily add a background'....Yes, I can easily add it EVERY SINGLE TIME I WANT TO UPDATE/EDIT IT. That's HORRIBLE. I shouldn't have to re-add the exact same background everytime I want to add more text or move/change a picture. (not that the text and picture go where I want them too anyways. -.- )
But also...No one was ever forced to use HTML/CSS. I know plenty of amazing and popular artist that don't use it at all. Your reasoning for taking it away, is nothing but a poor excuse.
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Yes the background image resets every time I edit the custom box.Β
All I do is click 'edit' and then 'edit contents'. Most recently was to change the image I had in it.
When I changed the image my text got all weird, so I'd went to edit again, had to re-add the background image.
I'm pretty sure this is a bug too, but the text is being weird on me.
So here's when I edit it: (and ofc had to re-add background when editing)
And this is how it ends up
I have no clue why the text ends up like that, like Splatter Paint Commissions is bigger than the other text and they split for some reason. lol
I tried fixing it for a while but as it seemed to not wanna work and it looks correct when I click edit, I figured it was a bug and just needed to wait.
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I've never tried another image, but that'll be my next go to.
Okay so step by step.
Go to profile.
- click edit in the top right corner of the custom box
- click edit content
- custom box no longer shows the background I had, just shows a grey background
- Mess with text to get it to say 'done'
- Background still grey, THOUGH now it's still there when done editing.Β
Just not showing up when I edit. lol Well as long as it's there.
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