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danlev β Eclipse Change Log: June 26, 2019
Published: 2019-06-26 23:37:20 +0000 UTC; Views: 17789; Favourites: 100; Downloads: 0
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"Not everyone knows HTML and CSS, and they shouldn't have to to create a beautiful profile. We don't think it's fair for a community of artists, that requiring a technical skill allows them to make profiles look better that artists without these skills -- or without the time to learn."
That's an absolute bullshit!Β Β It's the most rude and arrogant reply from you I've seen so far. What's not fair for DA community it's taking the use of HTML and CSS from them. If you're so concerned about hijacking your CSS classes then make them unique and/or forbid using their names in users' HTML codes. WYSIWYG editors are good for the beginners but not for those of us who spent time to learn how to use HTML and CSS. As someone who spent a large amount of time on self-learning both of them, I know how fast WYSIWYG editors go useless because of their limitations. And from what I've read in the other comments here, there's a huge community of users who create the codes for others, either for free or to sell them. Do you, danlev , honestly think it's FAIR to take their passion and earnings from them?! And don't you think that those you don't know how to code aren't really going to learn some coding skills just to customize their DA profiles after seeing how beautiful are the profiles of the other users? That's actually how you learn new things. You see something and you want to build something similar for yourself. You start with adjusting an already made code and then you switch to building the code from the scratch. That's how passion for something is born.
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Having dealt with HTML in a business format (Word Perfect) vs the WYSIWYG (WORD) I will strongly disagree. Even knowing the correct codes (often not obvious) and having a standardized (8.5 x 11) output, it was far too easy for even an experienced knowledgeable user to make mistakes. And one minor error could lead to hours of adjustments / proofreading / rework on just a single simple letter. They later attempted to simplify the process by allowing you to highlight and input a command - still seen on the working document. But only as a response to the quicker, more accurate, and easier WORD that was coming to dominate the market. I worked for a VERY conservative organization when it came to adopting new technology. But when even they saw that it was quicker, eliminated the hours and hours (and expense) of training, the switch was swiftly made with only a few nostalgic looks back from those of us who had finally mastered the old way.
HTML is a learned skill. Nothing will ever take that away. But it would be like teaching someone to field dress meat for the table. An old skill that may have still have value, but only if your particular situation required it. It's nice to want someone to learn. But is equally the height of arrogance to expect everyone to master or become a master to use even the most basic functions that can be automated today. And he's right never imagined myself saying this but DA does need everyone to be starting from the same point. You and I both know that when any change broke someone's customized CSS exploit, they would be lining up for pitchforks and torches to storm the castle in righteous bold typed outrage - kinda like they are now protesting the vandalism to their designs.
Can't say I like Eclipse in general. But on this point, I do understand why the change is being made.
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This is a really terrible excuse. Using HTML has always been completely optional, and also added heaps of worth in purchasing Core Membership. Removing it tells me that you lack confidence in your new methods of customizing your profile being able to be up to par with simply allowing users to edit their profiles with HTML, and rather than improving the more intuitive system you're attempting to make for people in Eclipse, your answer was to remove HTML to hide how lacking the current system is. Very disappointing and lazy solution.
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danlev This makes no sense. People will make tutorials for HTML and CSS, if they wanted to, they could easily look them up. It's fair. if they dont want to put time into their page, fine whatever, but please don't use an excuse so wrong that i puke in my mouth.
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so you're punishing us (the people who use html to make their custom boxes exactly the way we want them) by making it easier for the lazy people?Β
There are plenty of tutorials and resources people can find and use, there are even people who will code peoples profiles as a form of commission (there's also website that will generate the code for you!)
You've broken our profiles plenty of times in the past (most noted the wider boxes) and we fixed it cause we learned how to, as artists should
making it where people don't have to learn would be like go to work for a company and not know how to write, so instead of teaching you to write they make everyone type even if most people can write just fine cause they took the time to actually learn cause they wanted to better themselves instead of whine about how they can't do like everyone else cause they basically don't want to
If someone doesn't have the time to learn coding or piece something together over a few days, they're probably not on this site enough to even care about how their profile looks.
I love my profile, the gifs, scrolling boxes, other website buttons (that are animated gifs as well), different boxes that I can change the color of, all to a theme of my choosing
this box right here is a prime example
which is fine on my laptop, wide screen desktop, and mobile device
also the ability to have more than one box, I loathe having an unbalanced page cause I can't move or have more than one box, my profile is nothing but custom boxes and a custom journal skin that I worked extremely hard to teach myself to make
You're removing a major artistic part of this site, having html code allows people to express themselves, even if they don't have art or don't want their art on the front page, this is going to destroy a whole community of people who do this stuff (I am literally a mod in a group specifically for coding and keeping the page up to date)
If you remove HTML coding for good with no chance of it ever coming back with just this as your main reasoning, I am leaving this site and never returning
oh and since this is your reason you keep repeating, you may wanna make an official announcement so people will stop hoping
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To your first point, I'll direct you here . It was worded a bit rudely, but the underlying message is spot-on and explains a lot of our frustrations. Taking away a much-adored feature because some people aren't willing or able to invest the time to utilize it (which as I explained to you before, is mostly just a matter of copypasting, anyway ) is horrible. Even it's your intent, your goal is not satisfactory or fair to anyone, especially the users who created so much over the years only to have their content trashed.
Tumblr and countless other sites allow HTML. You can, too. You're choosing to ignore our wishes with paper-thin excuses, and we see through them.
Yes, a work in progress. One you've been forcing new users into , which is also not okay, but that's another discussion entirely.
I'm getting tired of rehashing this, danlev , really tired, but I'll continue to do so, as I have for months, until you do right by our creators and those who've spent their hard-earned money on their content. This is abhorrent.
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This is my main account and Nichs-Notes is my side account for arpg work, it absolutely kills me trying to upload anything on that stark black version of the site and I've had so many little issues and dumb things that mess up my workflow, like not being able to post a journal if it even included a thumb of someone else's artwork and making me post trackers and such as scraps,,,, like old members make new accounts for storage reasons as well since stash is spotty on if it works or not lmao that's why i made an account to store that artwork because stash kept deleting important stuff
and i get why they want to take away html because it's so poorly done as of right now that it's surprising that it works but it would make 10000% more sense to just start from scratch and rework it to not mess up every time da updates, not just completely remove it.
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"We don't think it's fair for a community of artists, that requiring a technical skill allows them to make profiles look better that artists without these skills -- or without the time to learn."
Β Β Β Β Β Except that's exactly how it is with art - you learn skills to make better artistic creations. Why can't there be both options: Have the raw html/css and the editor available. Then let people decide which they prefer to use and when they prefer to use it.
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^ Good point
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100+Β
You donβt just pick up a pencil or tablet and suddenly become a masterpiece artist, you have to LEARN and PROGRESS in order to become good at it. Same with this HTML and CSS coding smh.Β
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Thank you! I couldn't have put it better honestly.
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Pretty much. One should not have to exclude the other - HTML for people who can/want to code, and an editor for people who can't/won't.
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There is of course the economic issue... but considering ads are supposedly removed in Eclipse alongside most reasons to subscribe, I presume there is no shortage of funds.
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stop eclipse
you guys must need some new glasses with how blind you are being to the hatred this site feels for this updateΒ
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Hell yeah thank you so much now we will able to hide the tags making us uncomfortable to see thank you so much for implanting this !Β
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Whens the update when they cancel Eclipse?
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Okay this is epic, but just bring back the option to display moderate mature content and I'll be happy
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I still can't try these "new" features (no access to Eclipse)
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I joined some time ago, it did show up, but it said "403 forbidden"
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So, when will the update be where we cancel this?Β Unlike some of the previous proposed updates, this one really needs cancelled.
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decent feature but what about the old site theme being added for everyone to use + html coding
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Hi danlev ! I believe people (myself included) prefer customizing their profiles with (raw?) HTML coding opposed to the WYSIWYG editor that Eclipse uses. Using the (raw?) HTML code on DeviantART (old/green site) enables users to use the various (HTML) classes to customize their page and make it more unique, like the buttons for example or content holder boxes. Reference this and this for what I'm referencing.
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I don't use advanced custom boxes myself, but it stands to reason that unless the editor includes all functionality of an actual WYSIWYG editor, people who regularly use HTML on dA are not going to consider it a fully functional replacement.
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I still don't see a search feature within a gallery, even though DA said it was added. One of the many reasons I don't use Eclipse.
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Before all I got was a search for the whole site, not my folder. But I see how it works now. Thanks.
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Yeah just youΒ
A majority of people hate it though including me so agree to disagree
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OK, out of all the things I dislike about eclipse, this is the one thing we can agree on.
I don't wish to be spoiled on games and shows I want to see and I hate certain fetishes I want to mute.
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I mean, this is a nice feature and all but there's still no HTML for profiles.
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I have no issue regarding the possibility of things being cut off, but I mostly refer to making two images purposely the same size while other images can be a different size.
Say I have three images
All are 100px by 100px
But I want the first two to be 50px and the third to be 100px.
That's more of what I'm referring to when it comes to resizing. I want to be able to change some images to have a particular pixel dimension vs others being different. With coding, I can simply change one and not the other image tags. But yes, I suggest the ability to be able to preform this action along with the ability to scale images (with snapping) like we can in our regular old da journals.
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All of the customization we have currently, I want in eclipse. The entire customization we have now, will be lost once eclipse is happening because y'all are forcing us to use your new basic ways of adding things. We have the ability to basically use nearly all of HTML's capacity, within the websites coding, to make our profiles look and feel like however we want.
But with eclipse? No. We get to use gifs, thumb codes and uploaded cover images. Is that enough? Maybe for the generic users who don't care to code anything, but for someone like me and others who pay for those extra features as well as those who make money here from creating these codes, will get shafted with your new update. Because from what I understand and what I've been told from another staff member, HTML in eclipse isn't going to be a thing.Β
In my opinion, getting rid of it, is a huge, huge mistake and you're going to alienate an entire community off of your website because of it.
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What about stamps (or images in general) in the current Eclipse custom box we have? I seem to only be able to add them in a vertical single line arrangement instead of side by side in rows like on old DA, or am I missing something? As it is now, it makes the custom box unnecessarily long if you want to add more than one of any kind of smaller image.
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Any code. Any of it at all.Β
Being able to center images, or for instance click pictures and send you to links, or generic a href links for instance. OR code in scrolling text boxes for instance so you don't have a long profile full of stamps that clutters up a profile. Even still being able to decorate your gallery like you can now and customize how that looks to the degree you can now, like colored backgrounds and different text.
Hows about specific coding for specialized commission boxes? And customizing buttons for instance too, changing say the regular greenish colors to something lavender etc.Β
Think for instance, the music players as well. People get paid, either points or real money depending on how their finances are set up, because they've made the little players for your profile so you can have music on it if you so choose to. They require a string of HTML coding to work properly. And think as well, a daily deviation even that's a code for a floating, semi-transparent or entirely transparent text box.Β
Without any HTML support, 90% of all of that is going to be reduced to facebook level customization and the ability to place thumbcodes. To me, that feels like you're telling us we are just another person in a slew of people that don't ultimately matter. Cookie cutter people to make things either seem more advertiser friendly or some other corporate excuse.Β
As I have stated previously, there is an entire community here on this website who function off of making HTML based code for profiles that are going to get shafted with the lack of use of HTML in eclipse. There are people who make money off of this, and removing that is going to remove a source of revenue for them. Not that I know how much anyone makes off of this but it seems a bit short sided that you're going to remove it when so many of your user base uses it and so many of them create these things as their art outlet.Β
I find it horrendously disappointing.
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