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DanVzare — Less is More in Thief 4
Published: 2014-03-19 16:07:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 1390; Favourites: 17; Downloads: 1
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Overall, I remember really hating the new design for Garrett. Either they changed him a little without me realizing it, or I've gotten used to it. Whichever the case, I think it's mostly just that stupid handkerchief thing that bugs me now, because without that, he looks exactly like the Garrett I know and love. Although that voice annoys me to no end. As a matter of fact, all of the voices sort of annoy me, as well as the way they speak. In the original Thief games, the guards used to say "Taffer" a lot, and all of the guards also had the same voices (about three or five different male voices in total if I recall correctly). While I can understand adding more diversity to the voices, I still haven't heard any of those good old voices that I miss so much, nor have I seen that drunk guard that was present in all of the other games. Also, the original voice of Garrett was just so suave, but the new one is just so... plain, and boring. Also, maybe it's just me, but in the original Thief games, everyone sounded British, while now, everyone sounds American, which sort of spoils the mood as well.
Thankfully the game isn't as bad as it could have been. Apparently they were going to put in Quick Time Events, and a Leveling System. While those aren't terrible features, they are horrible for a Thief game.
Now you may be wondering why not being able to jump on the spot is a bad thing, especially since you can still climb on everything (actually, you can probably climb on more things now than before). The reason is simple. First, there are a select few places you can't jump across because of the new system, but that's minor. The main reason, is because me and everyone else I know, jump on the spot to get a guard's attention. Now you have to use bottles to achieve the same thing. Well, either that or run past them, which comes with it's own set of problems. But I mostly just mentioned this in my comic, because it's such a simple feature that was in the older games, but not in this newest one.
Something that has been really bugging me about the game though, is how the screen flashes every time you walk into the light. Yeah, I know I'm in the light, I can see the indicator to the side, you can stop reminding me now! Seriously, if you're just wandering about a little bit, going in and out of light, that flash is enough to give you an epileptic shock or something. Couldn't they have put it on a delay or something? Maybe check to see how long you've been in the dark, and if you've been in the dark for 5 seconds or more and have just gone into the light, then flash! Because most of the time when it flashes, you're just wandering about without needing to be sneaky (such as when you've knocked everyone out).
Well, enough complaining. The game isn't too bad. Personally, I would be enjoying it more if they had kept the original voice of Garrett, but the developers were too tight to pay for both a voice actor and another guy to do the mo-cap stuff, and as such settled on an all-in-one person. I don't care about their so called excuses, I know the real reason was because they weren't willing to hire two people when one would do.
You know something else? The zombies in Thief 1 (none of the sequels) are still the scariest zombies I've ever seen on a video game, even to this day they scare the living daylights out of me. I'm not kidding. I play and watch lots of Zombie Games and Films, and love them all. Zombies don't even phase me now. But the zombies on Thief 1... man those things are still scary!
I wonder if I'll ever get past level 2 of that first game?
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Comments: 164
Hmm, now I'm wondering if the rope arrows are cheaper.
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Thank you for this comic - nicely pointed out. I hate Thief4 with a passion. Actually, all it made me do is like Thief Deadly Shadows better and start replaying the trilogy (again 
Original Thief games' rule was - play, don't tell. I learned about the world by exploring it, by being immersed in it, not by watching long cutscenes of Garrett running around.
Does it sound like Thiaf made me angry? Good, cause it did. And I really really tried to enjoy it. And it might have actually killed the franchise for good.
Also, may I just ask why NuGarrett suddenly needs a corset, milions of leather straps, panda eyes and a powdered forehead? *shivers*
And I just noticed that your comic made me go full rant mode, I did not realize how much I resent this game...(sorry for the unexpected rant!)
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Don't worry about the rant. I know what it's like when you need to give off a good rant, and I actually agree with what you said.
I remember when I first saw that NuGarrett. I was absolutely appalled by the corset! And the straps! And the face mask! And EVERYTHING!!!!
Their excuse was to make him look more realistic, but he looked LESS realistic. The original Garrett looked like Thief, the NuGarrett on the other hand looked like a Gimp/Assassin/Ninja/Crossdresser.
I think they changed the model slightly afterwards, because the model ingame doesn't look as appalling as that original picture, but it still looks pretty terrible.
And those hands that are always constantly up when you're sneaking. WHO CROUCHES LIKE THAT!?!
And that voice. It's just so uninspiringly boring!
And while I don't mind Garrett talking, I did mind this one talking, because his voice sounded horrible and he never had anything to say that I wanted to hear. The original Garrett though, I remember longing to hear him say a new one-liner.
What I think is even worse though, is that the game was actually supposed to be worse!
I know it's hard to believe that this game could have been worse, but apparently they removed a level up system at the very last second. That's right, you would have had to level up your skills!
Ugh!
Now I've just ranted. ¬¬
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Looks like you need to rant as well!Good!
Original Garrett was clever, witty, sarcastic with funny one-liners and fascinating narrations in the cutscenes. Sometimes I like to play those cutscenes just to listen to him. And of course, his voice is just simply pure orgasmic joy! That, and he is my favourite gaming character EVER.
And no, never said I thought original Garrett should have talked less. He talked just enough and, like you, I often waited for him to say a line ingame. Always wanted more! Also, one of the reasons I wanted to play on Expert was to piece together more information, since in the extra objectives you have pointers to his personality and life sometimes.
NuGarrett says uninteresting, bland things about his surroundings and sometimes drops an one liner of the "I am the night" kind, something someone from marketing came over and wrote. No, Garrett you are not the night. You are just frigging boring, emo, whiny and downright embarassing.And you live in a Clocktower. Like CrowBatman.
Keeping his hands in front of him like a damn crab while sneaking is ridiculous indeed.
Also, watching the same animation of Garrett's hands pulling stuff out of cupboards gets tedious real fast.
The fact that he has the Primal-thingy-eye holds absolutely no drama or importance. I simply don't care about it. It's like his eye was ripped out and you actually felt dread and sympathy for the character riiiiight? *sarcasm*
Yeah, I also heard there were going to be worse things than those that actually made it into the game, like the xp system... please. The black painted fingernails were an edgy thing for the devs too apparently.
I'm sure that original Garrett would have nothing but contempt for the nuGarrett too.
I wonder what he would've said if they met.
"A corset, huh? How quaint."
Btw, all Thi4f made me do is start playing Thief Gold and Thief Metal Age (I already finished those games way too many times for my own good).
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Sorry for the late reply, I've been rather busy lately (busy being distracted by games that is 
Still, I'm sorry that it's taken me this long to reply to you.
I definitely agree with you there. The funny one liners always seemed appropriate, and I too love to watch those cutscenes just to hear him speak.
And like you said, sometimes he gave information about himself, so hearing Garrett say something new, could mean learning something new as well.
Also yeah, NuGarrett says absolutely nothing of value. All of his one liners are delivered terribly, and he never gives any information you don't already know.
The Clocktower was stupid (why not just live in a normal house), and I found it incredibly annoying whenever the screen would flash whenever I stepped into the light. Yes I know I've stepped into the light, you don't have to give me an epileptic shock!
Also yeah, those damn animations! I usually don't mind a first-person game showing your body, and as a matter of fact, I actually liked Thief 3 for it (although I must admit, Thief 3 was a step backwards from Thief 2 in some regards), but showing a slow and annoying animation EVERY TIME YOU PICK SOMETHING UP! It gets too much. And once again, those hands that are constantly in front of you when you duck. I know I've already mentioned those, but they are by far the most annoying and dumbest thing I've ever seen in a game. All they do is get in the way of your view, and make you feel like you're playing an idiot.
They were going to paint his fingernails black!?!
Wow, they really were going to make him look like a cross dresser.
I bet if the original Garrett met the NuGarrett, there wouldn't have even been a conversation. The original Garrett would be hidden in the shadows, listening to the NuGarrett say something stupid, and then the original Garrett would give off a one liner about how delusional this guy is. Then the original Garrett would proceed to blackjack the NuGarrett and rob him of all his valuables (which I think would be easy to find within that Clocktower).
The only thing Thi4f made me do, is download and play The Dark Mod. I'm not kidding, I hadn't even touched that game until I saw how terrible Thi4f was.
And then I realized how awesome The Dark Mod was. It's amazing how much better fans can do, even when they're not getting paid!
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Hah, it was me who took a long time to reply as well now, due to Easter break and stuff.
You know, you are right about Original and Nu Garrett not ever meeting. Actually, the situation from Deadly Shadows could be applied when Garrett observes his impostor and comments:
"So, this is the famous Garrett, huh? I guess he's not as good looking as I heard."
Pretty much sums it up.
Also, I now view Deadly Shadows (while my least favourite of the 3) in a much better light. I mean, Thi4f is that bad that even TDS is a great game in comparison. I am going to give it another chance now too and I know I'm gonna like it better now.
Do you know you find Garrett's mech eye underneath the Asylum in Thi4f suggesting that he had died in captivity. The Master Thief had to die so that the player can get their taffing collectible (and
taffing flaunt it as one of their baubles).
Grrrrrr
I have played loads and loads of FMs, never tried the Dark Mod though. Not sure if the missions are as good as the TMA FMs. Maybe I'll give it a try as well.
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Lol, agreed, that is definitely how it would play out.
As a matter of fact, parodying that scene would make a pretty good comic as well (or at least a funny picture).
Yep, I know about that eye. I doubt that Garrett died in that asylum though. It's more likely they had it taken out of him, and he escaped, or he had to remove it TO escape. Or something along those lines. I can't see Garrett having died in that place though.
If anything though, that mech eye in that asylum just confuses things. I mean, why does NuGarrett have so many things similar to the original Garrett, if it's not simply a reboot of the original Garrett? Did Garrett get resurrected, along with Basso? Because those names coupled with those occupations, means that there's some seriously freaky coincidences going on.
Considering most people who make the FMs for The Dark Mod also made FMs for The Metal Age, I suspect they would be as good as.
Although do keep in mind that the engine hates open spaces, and as such most of the FMs are full of tight corridors. Trust me, when you're getting the equivalent of 5 frames per second while going through a courtyard, you quickly start to understand some of the design choices.
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I can't really picture any kind of scenario where Garrett leaves his eye behind willingly in a place like that, so I guess that means it must have been plucked out of his head. How original.
This immediately translates to your question about why
the reboot Garrett has similarities with the original Garrett like Basso, etc.
It's the same case as with the references to trilogy: the ruined hammerite cathedral and psuedo Keeper chapel and so on. They simply took the trilogy, gave it a botched lobotomy and let it loose.
This nu Thief world is not the same, Garrett is not the same. They just took the bits they liked without any consideration for lore or anything and mashed them up together with the possible intention of being edgy and modern.
There was speculation whether nuGarrett is the reincarnation of Garrett or even his descendant(lol) but I don't believe this is the case. These are completely different worlds and different characters. The similar bits and pieces are only there to "appease" old fans... I guess?
It's like they wanted to make a game that is completely different from the old Thief games. They could have made a new protagonist (Deadly Shadows ends in a way that could suggest that) but probably thought that many people would not play Thief without Garrett. So they put Garrett in to make sure people bough it, along with some bits and pieces. Ironic, really, but not very well done! I mean they dumbed these pieces down too. Jennivere, Basso's wife to be(TMA) is now a bird, ffs.
So, in conclusion Thi4f is not really canon.(such satisfaction to have said that)
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I could picture one scenario where Garret would take out his eye, which would be to get out one of the mechanics from it to use it as a lockpick. But I can't see why he would ever leave it there. And taking that thing out would've been torture, so I suppose it would have had to been plucked out by the people who worked there.
Which is extremely cruel by the way.
You raise some very good points.
I suppose most people (me included) try to lie to ourselves, and find any way we can to try and make the game seem better than it actually was.
But in actuality, it's just a crap game with a mish-mash of references.
Also, I think the game would have actually been better had it not starred NuGarrett. Simply because the way they ruined that character, is one the most infuriating things in the entire game (well, that and those annoying hands when you crouch)!
So yeah, I'm more than willing to agree that it's non-canon.
You really have to make a lot of crap up to even begin to consider that it's canon.
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! SPOILER: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTXAYN…
I know Thiefverse is technology and magic at the same time but I wish I knew how this thing worked XD
Apologies, I get a tad over-enthusiastic about Thief.*shifty eyes*
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I know all of the games, and I know how they all end and the main plots to them all, but I've never seen all of the cutscenes of Thief 2 (or Thief 1 for that matter). The main reason being that I only ever watched my dad (and years later my sister) play the game, mostly because I was too terrified to play it myself because of the zombies (which still scare me).
I really need to play the games myself properly one day. I'm not sure why I haven't yet. :/
I mean, I have played some of the levels over and over again, but never all of the levels in order. And I've not noticed that until now.
Thanks for telling me though, and thanks for the link as well.
Now I need to see about installing those games and playing them properly for once.
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You should definitely try them
You're kidding me. The zombies? errr....
I am just replaying TDP and I am terrified of them! Still terrified! After all these years. I think I've developed a Thief zombie phobia. Seriously. And I am playing Cragscleft prison on Expert and the Mine levels are full of those things. *shivers* *runs away screaming*
*thinks of more zombies to come*
*screams some more*
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Like I said, I've played them, but never properly. For example, I've lost count on how many times I've completed that level where you enter the Hammerite Cathedral under a disguise (I forgot the name of the level).
I've also gotten the games to run on almost every computer I've ever used, even going so far as to see how much I can improve the graphics without drastically altering the game.
I've just never played them from start to finish. I have no idea why.
Yep, the zombies terrify me. The sounds, the way they look. Even with how good graphics have become nowadays, nothing is scarier than the Thief 1 zombies for me.
The Haunts take a close second place though.
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Oh sorry, right, you said that!
About zombies. I played Down in the Bonehoard last night. BAD idea because I planned sleeping 
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Oh wow, Down in the Bonehoard! That third level is both terrifying, and difficult.
Well, so much for sleeping.
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Actually, I wanted to add about the whole corset thing.
I'd forgive it if ... it was useful. If it was a corset-harness (more harness tho) that could be attached to a rope and Garrett would be able to hang from the rope hands-free. And shoot his bow while hanging from the rope. (read this idea somewhere on the TTLG forums).
Oh well, all we got from the devs was - there are only certain places you can stick your rope arrows and that's not necessarily your bum hah!
Sorry I hope you don't mind me continuing this conversation
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You know something. I would've probably been able to accept the corset as well, if it had a use. I suppose this NuGarrett does squeeze inbetween a lot of tight places, and a corset could help him avoid getting scraped, but I think with all of the straps and so on, it's much more likely to catch on something. The constricting nature of that corset, is more likely to impede his ability to get around (sneaking, running, climbing) than it is to help him. Also, his clothes in general, make him very noticeable in a public area. At least the original Garrett looked like he could blend in with a crowd if needed. If you saw the NuGarrett walking down a street (much like everyone does on the very first level of Thief: The Dark Project) you'd instantly know he was up to no good.
But if the corset thing was actually useful, like with what you said by hanging hands-free, then I think I would've been able to accept it.
Yeah, I just don't know why the devs would limit the use of your rope arrows so much!
If they wanted to change the way rope arrows work, I think they should've made it so you can only climb a rope if the rope is next to a wall (you use the wall to push against), but you can climb down any rope. It would've both made sense, and allowed them to make the rope arrows more limiting without making them seem completely useless.
But instead they went for the lazy approach. Rather then selectively choosing where they place wood textures on their maps, they instead chose to make rope arrows only work in very specific places.
Clearly they didn't want to be bothered in having to focus on level design that compliments gameplay.
Also it's alright that you continued this conversation. I like having conversations on deviantART.
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Yeah, he does squeeze through a lot of tight places such as the loading screen animation place
But yes, I agree, the corset is restrictive and Garrett's movements should not be impeded in any way. I mean I did wear a super tight corset once or twice and I couldn't bend in it. No way. I couldn't frigging breathe in that thing! Like you said the amount of straps on the corset would only result in getting caught on things...a lot. Also, you are correct, Garrett should be able to walk down a street normally without looking too suspicious (like you said, there's examples of that in TDP!).
Another thing about that damn corset and the rest of this nuGarrett getup: that's a lot of leather. And leather creaks. Like hell. Maybe soft leather not so much but you need hard leather for the corset.
So anyway, the corset is a bad idea unless it had a practical use, maybe it was only put on by Garrett when he needed it, not having to parade in it.
And oh, rope arrows!
I've just recently played through Sword level in TDP and I was having a ball just because I had rope arrows! I made my own sneaky path up to the prize and I even did some awesome stunt jumps thanks to them XD (yeah you need a lot of pracice with jumping in TDP but I'm starting to love it). You can go the regular routes, sure, but you can get really creative with those things - and the only restriction is the fact that you need a wooden surface to stick the arrow into! It's obvious - thi4f devs cut the gameplay freedom for the sake of something else but to be honest I can't tell what that something else could be
Original Thief games have that level design that creates gameplay - player is free to experiment and do things their way so everyone who plays the game has different and interesting stories to tell. Like me, when I finished the Sword mission I was so damn proud of myself and wanted to tell people about the stuff I pulled off. In Thi4f? It never happened.
And there's another thing about this nuGarrett I noticed as well which has more to do with characterization.
Every chapter he gets caught and has to run away. The stupid Thief-taker just pops out of nowhere and knows where Garrett is somehow!
Now, is that any way for a pro thief to behave? NuGarrett is just a bad thief, that's all. He gets noticed, chased and victimized a lot! I mean it's just because of his kleptomania. Why don't you stay in your Bat Clocktower, nuGarrett, and oggle your loot. (something original Garrett wouldn't be doing either.)
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Yeah, those loading screens were... strange. Not a bad idea, but a little unorthodox. They could've been done slightly better, but as they were, they weren't that bad.
Also I hadn't thought about how leather creaks. With how much leather that nuGarrett wore, he must be one heck of a noisy thief. I know the original Garrett wears boots with incredibly hard soles (the sounds he makes while walking on marble floors is ridiculously loud), but I honestly don't think that's as bad as the noise nuGarrett would be making if he so much as scratched his nose.
Also I think I now know why nuGarrett always has his arms up when crouching. He can't lower them because of all of the restricting clothes he's wearing.
Ah yes, the jumping on the old Thief games. When I was younger, I had no idea just how overpowered the mantling mechanic was. Now I know it's not that hard to climb up onto places you're not even supposed to get to. Mix that in with the rope arrows, and like you said, you can make some pretty awesome stunt jumps.
As for why they devs cut the freedom. I suppose I can't be sure of this, but I believe they cut the gameplay freedom so then they could make the levels how they want without having to worry about it being impeded by gameplay. For example, suppose you want to make a nice tavern with a balcony, and where the goal is to go through the front door, find a key, get to the second floor, and take the prize. Only you can't do that, because chances are, a balcony is going to have some wood on it, and then the player will be able to circumvent the entire level with just a single rope arrow. So for them it was a matter of making artistic sacrifices (such as not having wood on places which should have wood) or making gameplay sacrifices (such as not being able to climb anywhere there's wood through the use of a rope arrow).
Considering games nowadays are very scripted, and Thi4f is no exception, it's no wonder they went the way they did. Just think of all the places you could possibly break the game if you had proper rope arrows.
Of course this is all pure speculation on my part. I could be completely wrong. But I do honestly believe it was because they wanted to do lazy level design, because the levels that are in the game, ARE lazily designed.
I completely agree with you there. The original Thief games had brilliant emergent gameplay, that gave you proper stories to tell, and really improved replay value.
Also yeah, nuGarrett is just a bad thief. But then again, what do you expect. He wasn't trained by keepers you know.
Actually, there really isn't anything interesting about nuGarrett. At least the original Garrett had an interesting backstory!
Sheesh, they really didn't get anything right on Thi4f.
And... that's one heck of a wall of text.
Very sorry about that.
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Ha! I love walls'o text about Thief, no worries!
Loading screens - well they were certainly something different but after 15 of those, things got old quickly. Not to mention the button mashing.
Garrett's shoes - oh yeah!
LMAO about nuG's arms being always up - that pretty much explains everything!
And also that would explain him being so retarded. ( I AM THE NIGHT A BEEN A GHOST ALL MA LIFE) You can't breathe in the corset therefore prolonged use leads to lack of oxygen in your brain thus leading to brain cells dying... (okay that was cruel)
I love how original Garrett doesn't really need any of those corsets and leather straps and cool poses. He's just so good that a set of comfy clothes will do for any occasion. I did not like the fact that in TDS they went for some kind of body armor. I still don't understand it. Although I guess that maybe he'd wear some leather protection for his elbows and knees maybe so he doesn't get scraped too much. But he had to run around with bare arms in TDS wth. Oh wewwwll. Guess that going for "edgy" look by the devs never served Garrett too well.
Jumping and mantling - when I played Thief long time ago and I think I replayed it to death I loved to explore as far as the map would let me, usually going out of the zone I was supposed to be in. But still, it didn't really break the game for me. Altho, Garrett usually died of sudden heart attack syndrome then because of the map bug lol. The game didn't like me doing that!
Gameplay freedom - well, to begin with, I thought that a dev designed levels for gameplay to happen in them and not for levels to just be a nice scenery. Right?
Your example is good though. The tavern might have the wooden balcony when the access is easy via rope arrow and it is fine, but then you'd have to go and explore because a vital part of the upper floor is locked and you must find the key. That's actually exactly what happens in the Sword level, right? You get easy access to second floor via balcony but the way further isn't as easy and actually takes some thinking. And my finding a kind of vertfical crazy insane pathway was challenging and fun and certainly not easy.
When you have a poorly designed level, a rope arrow will break the game. But when you design a level with rope arrows in mind it will not. When you have not allowed for player creativity, as a designed you've failed. You are absolutely correct, it's just lazy level design on Thi4f devs' part. What broke Thi4f was the swoop mechanic for me. I could just swoop my ass anywhere and everywhere and if I got spotted I just ran for it and the guards didn't even chase me much. I mean if you abused swoop it got way too easy. The only fun I had with it was when I was trying to play it old Thief style, but then I realized I didn't have to!
And then of course, there's the scripted events. FFS I can't even cosh a guard on the head in peace without music effects and animation? Or that rooftop escape that's entirely scripted and has you running for your life but nobody is really chasing you? *eyetwitch* Argh. I was sitting through it and thinking - hey I'd like to PLAY that. And Garrett crashes through a window and lands on top of a table surrounded by guards. Wtf. Ah! Right, it's Garrett's retarded brother in the corset!
Wall o' text O_O
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Agreed, the button mashing did start to get annoying rather quickly, and is one of the areas it could've been improved on (not sure how though). I did like how it made you feel as though the entire world was connected, and the levels didn't just exist as completely separate entities. Even though I think it needed improvement, I still stand by my belief that it was the only decent idea the developers had for that game.
Oh yeah, I know what you mean. Some soft soled shoes can be quite noisy in the right environment. I still think the soles on Garrett's shoes, were made out of wood though.
Nah that isn't cruel. If anything, that's being nice. By saying that NuGarrett is a total idiot because of the corset, you're implying that he hasn't always been a total idiot. Which in turn is quite a nice gesture. It's untrue though, because any thief wearing a corset, has clearly always been a complete and total idiot.
To be honest, I never really minded the new look Garrett had on Thief 3. It was nice seeing him in something different, and the body armour sorta made sense with all of the stuff he's been through. Although I can understand how that body armour isn't the most useful thing for a thief trying to sneak around, at least it looks like it's in parts to try and give maximum maneuverability (unlike the corset in Thief 4). But to each their own, I suppose. I can understand why people dislike it though, it is after all, nowhere near as good as his original outfit. But to me, it just felt nice to see him in something different, rather than the usual cloak.
Yeah, devs are supposed to design levels for gameplay and not scenery. But unfortunately, it hasn't been that way for years (in my opinion at least).
Ah yes, the swoop mechanic. Both useful, and utterly stupid. It was fun to use, but ridiculously overpowered.
Also, I don't know if we're talked about this before, but where were the zombies! Instead of zombies, we got shadow creatures that disliked light! Why couldn't they have just made proper undead creatures, and given them awesome sound effects, like the first two Thief games! (the sound effects weren't as scary in Thief 3 in my opinion).
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I'm not so sure about the window/narrow places loading zones. They were loading zones and they felt like it. Also, I had to bump into them to know that they were loading zones and not just more texture because I couldn't quite always tell. And then to leave the an apartment I got into I had to do THE SAME THING to get back to the outside world. That was annoying more than anything else about it.:/
And yes, true! -when Garrett walks on tiled floor it sometimes feels like he's wearing damn stiletto heels, seriously lol!But then again the tap tap foward button technique is very efficient, if you are careful and patient you can walk very quietly on tiled floor as well. And I love walking on carpeted floor in Thief, I just love that feeling of being "safe" for a moment (that's a very misleading feeling tho lol).
And yep nuGarrett IS a total idiot! Agreed.
It's painful how they advertised him though with the "did you miss me?" line, playing on fans' nostalgia, especially how different a character the original Garrett is. And I could probably write volumes about the original character of Garrett...don't worry I won't, it'll take way too much space!
As for the armor in T3, I guess I hated Garrett's 3rd person model more than his armor and maybe that's just the reason. To be honest I did not like the idea of 3rd person at all. And then, of course, when I got around to it, I thought he'd look cooler :/ Not pretty or anything, just cool and not bending like he had serious spine problems. (And that weirdly bent long neck
Zombies, haunts, ghosts, burricks, craymen etc etc all were a very nice variation to just guards. They were very very intimidating. TMA had the robots and the cameras and an occasional ghost and it was incredibly well done as well. Thi4f dumped not only the lore but the diversity of enemies as well.
And yes the zombies. Have you noticed the wet noise they make when they walk? Walking on rotting feet. OMFG. Even thinking about the Thief zombies gives me the creeps.
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Yeah, I hate it when you can't tell something apart from the rest of the background.
I think I would've much preferred it if they had gone the same way as Thief 1 and 2, where you just go straight from level to level, and completely forgone the open world. Because as much as I like an open world, it is quite redundant on a Thief game.
Although I still like to think the loading screens is one of their better ideas (although that really isn't saying much). It clearly needed a lot of work though. Perhaps with them being a bit more clear, more diverse, more automated (in which case they would feel more like a loading screen), and perhaps with something to look at as NuGarrett squeezes past (such as shipment notes on the boxes or something).
Ah yes, the soft sound of walking on carpet. It wasn't just the feeling of safety, but also the sounds effects. The sound effects on Thief 1 and 2 were simply on a whole different level to any game that's ever been made since then. Everything sounded just right. The tiled floors inspired fear, and the carpets inspired security. Everything in those two games sounded perfect to me (although I must admit, some of that is probably nostalgia now).
As far as I know, almost everyone hated the fact that there was a 3rd person view on Thief 3.
I know why everyone hated it, and I actually agree with a lot of the points, but overall, the 3rd person view never bothered me. Then again, when I was younger I always wanted to play 1st person games in 3rd person for some reason, so maybe I hadn't quite grown out of that by the time I played Thief 3, and thus nostalgia has kicked in since then.
Although I do remember being completely blown away by the graphics on Thief 3. It was one of the first "new" games installed on my dad's brand new computer at the time, and going from games like Thief 2 and Might and Magic IX to that, it was incredible! It was like seeing the prerendered characters on Might and Magic VII but them NOT being prerendered!
And nowadays I just adore anything with bump-mapping, regardless of any other graphical qualities the game might have.
Yeah, I'm odd in that regard.
All of those different creatures in the Thief universe, added so much atmosphere to the game. An atmosphere that was lost as soon as Thief 4 decided that everyone would swear properly (rather than say taffer) and that the only monster would be some sort of weird shadow creature.
I know that a lot of people disliked Thief 1 because of all of the monsters, but I think we can all agree that the monsters are what made Thief such a great game to begin with.
I mean, you could sneak up on the things that scared you! How awesome is that! Of course, you'd mostly just be hiding in pure fear, but still, it was kinda awesome.
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Haha, don't you worry, the sound effects in Thief are as chilling, frightening, fascinating and inspiring as ever! I can tell you, it's not just nostalgia since I'm playing now! There is of course the game ambient which really does a great job at helping your immersion. It has various functions: disturb you or lull you into false security. For example, The Sword mission and the Bonehoard. In the Sword you get all those nature sounds punctuated by the female (Vikky!) giggling...that just comes from nowhere. I remember the first time I played it I was spooked out of my mind by that. In the Bonehoard, you get the gentle call of the Horn playing in the background. It's so... soothing...I mean it would be, if not for the zombie wails against it! Another sound that comes to mind is the crayman chittering sound as well as the sharp tap tap of the spider walking *shivers and the Haunts and the apparitions talking backwards! The Eye in the Cathedral and the creepy long exhalation sound just by the altar. And let's not forget the crazy wtf-like ambient in the Maw. Damnit, you can tell I'm in love with those sounds!
Also, one of my favourite things in Thief: scary ambient, pure terror, creepy atmosphere and suddenly, Garrett's smooth, IDGAF quip, full of attitude and arrogance.
As for TDS and the 3rd person... when I think about it I realize I must admit I got "distracted" by Garrett most of the time, instead of properly looking at the surroundings when I was in 3rd person. ERM I MEAN, it was not as immersive as 1st person for me. But anyway, 3rd person let you see more around the corner, and I think it gave you better maneuverability compared to 1st person. I think that was my biggest problem with it. Also, I did play Thief 1 and 2 before TDS came out so I already had a pre-defined image of Garrett in my mind. I always wondered whether the devs would show what he looks like in the end and TDS showed me a model of Garrett and I had a sort of a problem with that, and I didn't even realize. I was just curious! *Sil tries to oggle G's butt* (sorry, being silly now
As for graphics in TDS, yes they were nice.
But I didn't really like the scenery that much-the design of the city was more streamlined than from TMA for example where they went for the City of the Lost Children vibe. Instead of weird tech in the walls, they went for gargoyles which annoyed me to no end for some reason. I guess it's because they just went for the more generic look then. Oh well. So TDS was the least favourite in the trilogy for me even tho...I had lots of fun with it.
...I did manage kill a Keeper by throwing a book at him. Oh the irony!
Anyways it's still a fantastic game and much MUCH better than Thi4f.
And yeah I know that a lot of people disliked Thief 1 for the monsters. I never did and I completely agree - to be able to sneak up on things that scares you is a beautiful twist! Also monsters provided great variety to missions and made you constantly be aware of your surroundings because what if another of those appears! Also you never really knew what would surprise you next time.
I also love the metal beasts in TMA, so it's not like I prefer one of the games over the other, I kinda feel like they're one big game for me.
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Yep, those are some of the best sounds in the game. Thief 2 has it's own share of great sounds as well, such as those moving trees in that forest, and those "servants".
Also I agree, the way Garrett's voice broke the mood, just worked so perfectly. I doubt any other game could pull that off.
I had watched my dad complete Thief 1 and 2 several times, before I ever saw Thief 3. I had even positioned one of those eye cameras on a table in a brightly lit room on Thief 2, to get a really good look at Garrett. I also really enjoyed watching all of those cutscenes, so I had a good idea what Garrett looked like as well. The way he looked on Thief 3 still didn't bother me though. As for the 3rd person view giving you the ability to see around corners, if you don't like it, just don't use it. Although I must admit, on 3rd person view, you do end up looking at Garrett more than your actual surroundings (thus making the game a bit unplayable in my opinion), and it was annoying to be forced into a 3rd person view when climbing a ladder.
Perhaps I'm just more forgiving of bad features, than most people.
I can actually list another reason why the 3rd person view was such a bad idea. One of the reasons, is being able to see your legs in 1st person, which I rather enjoyed but I understand why people detest it so much. People hated having an actual body on Thief 3, because it is what's attributed to that slight delay when turning (which I suppose makes sense).
Yeah, the look of the city was quite different on Thief 3. I kinda justified it in my head, by saying that everyone now rather disliked technology, because of what happened at the end of Thief 2, and thus the technological look was downplayed simply because technology had more or less gone backwards.
Of course this was merely a justification at the time, and I was still too wowed by the graphics at the time to give a crap anyway.
At least the aesthetics on Thief 3 are better than they were on Thief 4 (seriously, that game was nothing but grey walls).
Agreed, I also saw Thief 1 and 2 as being one large mega game. The almost indistinguishable graphics and gameplay mechanics, just reinforced that for me.
I'm glad I finally found someone who didn't mind all of the monsters on Thief 1.
I suppose Thief is more fun when sneaking up on guards, and having zombies at the start of the second level, and an entire undead level for the third level, was a bit much at the time. I still think that in the end, it gave the game an epic story, and an unforgettable lore.
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Haha, I actually liked the fact that in TDS you could see your own feet. Kinda made sense for me. I could adjust to the delay in turning, that was fine. I mean I could feel I was "there" more. What pissed me off about the 3rd person was that I felt that if I switched to it and could see around the corner more I felt like I was "cheating" somehow, you know? So I usually just stuck to 1st person but still, the fact that I knew I could see more in 3rd kinda annoyed me. Maybe that's weird but still.
About the Thief 3 look, I do realize that the new tech was in decline because of TMA. But the Hammerites were there so I suppose the technology should've gone back to what was available in TDP. Which meant those strange machines ticking away in corners and making those weird sounds. I mean even if they weren't functional they could've still be there, out of order and ruined, or something. I really missed the Brazil movie look they were going for earlier. Also I thought the city in general was this oppressive huddled mass like you see in some of the cutscenes in TDP and TMA. I think they failed in that regard in T3. Oh well, guess it's just me.
But I agree with you completely - the aesthetics in T3 are WAY better than Thi4f. Thi4f is bland and boring and sometimes it feels to me it has 2 textures in total, lol. No, really, everything feels flat and bland. That area near the docks - just wooden surfaces, that's it. Well, maybe the brothel level feels a bit more vibrant...but that's just one highlight in the game that's otherwise just grey.
Yeps, also glad someone else likes the zombies and monsters haha!
Honestly, I really do not see why people criticize gameplay with monsters ("because killing monsters is tedious") when at NO point in the game you are required to kill any of them. You can sneak past them, you can simply evade most of them. Garrett runs faster than anything else in the game ('cept for the Haunts) so I do not see why one should even bother with having to kill every monster in their way.
If a monster is especially annoying and gets in my way too much (ie way too many zombies) and I decide to kill it, I try to gain upper ground if possible and try to get rid of it without getting too close.
Or, my favourite tactic - get one group of monsters attack another group of monsters. Zombies vs Burricks battle royale! * With Garrett sitting on a roof, eating popcorn*
I also like Hammerites against zombies.
Agreed on the unforgettable lore and the epic story, both of which Thi4f completely lacks
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Yeah I know what you mean. You just can't help but want to cheat, especially since there's a button there to do it for you. So I can definitely understand that. And yeah, using 3rd person mode to look around corners definitely felt like cheating.
Also, you're the first person I've talked to who didn't mind the delay in turning. I personally never noticed the delay in turning, because to me, it made it feel... I think you said it best: "more like you were there".
Also, YAY! Someone else who likes being able to see your feet on 1st Person games.
Nah it's not just you. They did change the aesthetics a bit too much for the worse in Thief 3, and the city also didn't quite have that muddled look that I'm sure we all imagined. After all, on the levels on Thief 1 and 2 that took place on The City streets, the whole place seemed sprawling, with loads of indistinguishable streets and dead ends. I get why they couldn't quite do that considering the limitations of the engine, but still.
Yeah, it's a Thief game. You can sneak past anything without killing ir. Just because they're monsters, doesn't mean you have to destroy them.
Getting monsters to fight with other monsters (or Hammerites to fight against monsters) is just one way, but you can also sometimes lure zombies into water and watch them drown (same goes with the guards). A good example of that drowning exploit is on the second level of Thief 1. It's really quite satisfying to pick up an intact corpse of a zombie.
I'm not quite sure how a zombie can drown, but I suppose you can quite clearly hear them breath, so obviously zombies must need to breath on Thief.
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Ha! it's like that with Thief - you play and learn. Now I did not know that a zombie could drown maybe because an idea like that did not occur to me! But I tried to drown a Crayman last night and he didn't want to die the stupid thing!
Experimentally, I tried actually fighting the monsters at some point to see what the complaints were about. Exploding zombies are awesome! Sniping spiders and craymen is so much fun as well, very satisfying. Poor hurt whining burricks! Seriously, sounds wise they are mix of pig and dog I think
Now I've imagined Garrett picking up a "dead" intact zombie and grumbling about it lol
About TDS - one more criticism - it had the hand drawn cutscenes but they also added the engine rendered ones and they were just awful 
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I don't think you can drown craymen, simply because they're aquatic and thus breath underwater. I'm not sure if burricks are aquatic though... I think they may be.
The Haunted Cathedral is definitely one of the best levels in the entire Thief franchise, and in my opinion, the best example of horror in a video game.
Definitely a great level. It's also quite difficult as well, and whether or not you prefer to kill monsters, you are almost certainly going to have to sneak your way around most of the place on that level (which is one of the reasons why it's the best level in my opinion). Although there is one way to ruin the level for yourself. Just lure zombies into corners and hit them twice with an overhead swing from your sword. Then all you have to do is avoid walking near them. The rest of your equipment should be able to easily deal with the rest of the undead. It really spoils the fun though if you play it like that.
After you made that comment about possibly drawing Garret jumping over a spider, I figured I'd take a look at your art, and wow... you're a really great artist.
Talking about swimming, why do you suppose most modern games don't have swimming anymore? (Or at least swimming underwater.) Has swimming in games, become that much of a technical achievement nowadays?
Hearing a burrick run away in pain, makes me feel bad. They just sound so adorable when they make that noise, which in turn makes me feel so guilty.
Every thing else though, can just die as far as I'm concerned. Screw those spiders, craymen, zombies, haunts, ghosts, and floating fireballs!
Could you imagine carrying a dead intact zombie throughout a level... that would be pretty disturbing. Especially if you frightened guards with it. As a matter of fact, I might have to do that, just to have some fun.
Oh yeah, I remember those engine rendered cutscenes. Despite loving the graphics on the game, I always found those engine rendered cutscenes terrible. Why couldn't they just use the hand drawn ones like the rest of the game?
Those weird hand drawn cutscenes though, really were a highly memorable part of the Thief series, and I was pleasantly surprised that they still appeared on Thief 3 (I figured they wouldn't simply because I thought that the only reason they appeared on the first two games, were because of technical limitations). Because of Thief, I now find anything animated in that way, both nostalgic and lovable.
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bwahahahahahahaha you are absolutely correct about the craymen. I'm an idiot *facepalm* ... did not think that it would just specially apply to craymen because I just lumped it with other "monsters". hahahaha I love Thief.
but then again if zombies drown, logic is out of the window, I guess!
adaftpunk.tumblr.com/post/8863…
And I am really glad you like my art 
Maybe I should actually draw more these days.
But that brings me to another thing I was thinking about, namely, I wanted to draw Garrett for ages now...
But you know, everyone imagines Garrett a bit differently due to how he is portrayed in the first 2 games and then there's the third. I mean he looks different in every cutscene, box art etc. And when we see him, we don't usually see a lot. So, pretty much everyone has their set image of Garrett as they have imagined him. So, it follows, anything that doesn't agree with that image will instantly be disliked. I know because I react the same way.
So I suppose drawing Garrett would require a lot of hiding him in the shadows rather than revealing. Tricky!
And anyway there will always be someone to nitpick in this fandom.
(Of course I'm not talking about nuGarrett here because that'd be pretty silly.)
And yeah I feel the same way about the burricks...
Haha yes. Every other monster can just go and die for all I care. Although Thief has a very interesting exposition for the monsters since they rarely appear en masse for the first time. And when you encounter them you get the "wtf did I just see" moment and try to come to terms with that. Like, the floating fireballs. That was a moment I got rooted to the spot just staring at them instead of running for my life!
Nice idea to parade around with the zombie. I'd love to throw an intact zombie into the Thieves guild though. That would be nice. Those guys pissed me off for some reason.
I'm planning to bonk a Keeper in TMA though...
Honestly, I have no idea about the swimming in games. I'm guessing it's because games these days rarely have their own developed engine but use engines that other games use for some of their qualities. Guess swimming is low priority to shooting so it is just not made into games often?
And no I am not going to ruin the Cathedral level for myself! I'm going to sneak it through and I am going on expert so that means my nerves will be frayed by the time I sneak to the end. I already played it on expert before so I know what that feels like
Right now I'm at the Hand mages and somehow I'm not to thrilled about it. Debating on whether or not I should skip the level.
Hope some of that I typed made sense because I am SO tired.
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Heh, I didn't even need to click play on that video to know what it said. I remember that conversation from the top of my head.
It shouldn't be too hard to figure out how to draw Garrett hiding in the shadows. That's basically how he's shown in all of the cutscenes, and he's almost always in the shadows in a game anyway.
Although I personally don't mind how each person interprets Garrett, because as differently as each person interprets him, they all look similar enough to be classified as Garrett to me.
Yeah, when you hurt a burrick enough that it starts whining, it stops attacking you. It still makes me feel guilty though.
Also I agree with what you said about the "wtf" moment when you first see one of the Thief monsters. Even Thief 3 managed to achieve that, with those zombie things in the Cradle.
I remember when my Dad first played Thief 3, and me and my family was watching him, and he was on the Cradle level. Everyone but my Dad, saw the flicking lights going off in the other rooms, and the occasional figure moving past, but my Dad didn't believe there was anything there. Surprisingly, he went quite a distance without running into anything, so when he finally did, you can bet we were all frightened by the sudden appearance of one of those things. It's because of that moment, that the Cradle gets the second spot for my list of best horror level in a Thief game.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of it like that. I think you might be right about the fact that it's simply because it isn't in the engine they're using.
I had theory that maybe they were struggling with making the underwater effects look as good as the rest of the graphics without causing severe lag, but I think what you said makes much more sense.
If it's true though, that's one heck of a shame.
Also, don't worry. Everything you typed made perfect sense.
It was also well written too. No spelling or grammatical errors at all, unlike mine I suppose (I will probably miss some of my own errors when I proofread it).
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Wow, I envy you. Playing Thief with family,or watching them play,must've been really fun! I like your family
The other was, when I saw Thief for the first time. My ex showed me one of the cutscenes in TDP, and I was, of course in love right away (with the cutscene, that is
Those guard conversations in TDS : the zombie talk, the festering wound saga (the excess humours) and of course the Garrett impostor one (I have so much thieving to do, I don't bathe so often). Pure comedy gold.
As for the Cradle. Mothertaffer. I played it at night too, alone. I brought down one of the patients and was just about to slip past it when it ... got back up. From then on I spent the level shaking and applying the best strategy ever which was locking myself up in the Cradle kitchen because no puppets went there, and that sure was effective
And no, by the way your writing is very good!
*looks up at her own text* I think I'm having a "write stuff in brackets" day though.
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Yeah, it was fun watching and playing with my family.
Times change though. Although surprisingly, not that much, since it was only a few years back when my family watched me throughout the Telltale Games version of The Walking Dead.
Wow, no wonder you nearly had a heart attack. I would've practically screamed had that happened to me (and probably woken everyone up in the process).
Heh, you (sorta) stole Thief. I'm not sure if that's ironic or appropriate.
Although it sounds as though it was kinda mean of him to make fun of you.
Something that Thief 3 did well, was comedy. They even included the ability to shoot moss arrows at guards, so they choke a little bit (effectively stunning them temporarily) and you can also make them slip on oil. Both of those things were sort of funny in their own little regard (a little like slapstick comedy). I think Thief 3 actually focused more on the humor than on the other games. Some liked it, other didn't. I was one of those that kinda liked it.
I've had conversations with people about The Cradle, and while almost everyone agrees that it's downright scary, it's also generally agreed that it's heavily scripted. The Cathedral is mostly scary without being scripted, while The Cradle is mostly scary because it scripted (although not all of the parts). So as scary as I think The Cradle is, it always gets second place simply because of that fact. It doesn't diminish the fact that it's a great level, that is appropriately scary (after all, it gets second place in my book).
Yay, my writing is good!
Don't worry about the brackets, I've personally done worse. Last month I couldn't stop using the word "though" and "although" in every sentence. It was starting to annoy me, although I don't think anyone else noticed. Also if you haven't noticed, I keep putting a comma after the first word for every paragraph. What is up with that!
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Sorry for the late reply. My PC at home died and I spent yesterday building a new rig from scratch so I had no way or responding. Also, I had to reinstall the system so I lost my Thief savegames
Gaming with family... that would be totally awesome. Especially playing Thief. But oh well, I can't have everything, lol.
As for my brother scaring me - yes I did scream I think and I also woke everyone in the house with my scream. They weren't very happy with me...
About Thief 3 comedy, yes it was funny, it had a lot of those goofy moment. I liked the guard doing the "I'm an ooooowl" thing. I think most of it was hilarious. The slapstick comedy of putting oil on the floors was fun in the beginning but then it quickly grew boring I think. Although I think a stern Hammerite slipping on oil is always funny. I liked the fact you could actually mess with people in T3. I see why they criticised the game for it but it all came down to actually using or not using those things, you never had to. Although I must admit that one of the funniest things for me in Thief was when you missed a torch with a water arrow and shot a passing guard with it. I always thought of it as "washing their ears".
There was another criticism of Thief3 I saw and I kinda agree with it, to a degree. The way the Keepers were portrayed. A lot of people complained that the Keepers lost their air of mystery and awesomeness that they had throughout the games. Yes they did lose their mysteriousness, having been shown as just another faction - just a group of people, like the pagans or the Hammerites. But I think it was done on purpose - to show they WERE just people and that Garrett was right about them. He had seen their faults before we did. But it was a bit of a shame for them to be shown like that. Maybe the presentation could be a bit cooler though. I think what people criticised mainly was the Enforcers and I agree with that completely. The Enforcers were blundering around the streets and their voices is the only sound I think that could've been done better in the entier Thief game. They just did not come across as terrifying to me and they should have. I mean - they were Keeper Enforcers for Trickster's sake!
As for having stolen the Thief cd I regret to say I was wrong. I checked my old cds and I do not have it anymore. Most of our stuff was just ours for years when we were together so I suppose I got used to having it with my things as I played it so often. I guess I must have given it back after all along with other things though.
Don't worry about the writing - tis all good. Maybe minus the weird comas but I tend to put comas in randomly in the hopes of achieving correct punctuation sometimes... I am not a native English speaker - punctuation rules are different in my language so Im lazy and I tend to confuse them with the English ones.
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Oh wow, your computer died on you!
I know what it's like when that happens, and you have to build a new one. That's basically what happened with the computer I'm currently using.
I'm sorry you lost everything.
Yeah, the humour in Thief 3 was great.
And like you said, with a lot of things, it was a matter of whether or not you chose to do it. If you didn't like it, you could just avoid it.
I always wondered why the guards didn't react more when you hit them with a water arrow. Surely it must strike them as odd that they're suddenly soaked in water.
Also those helmets that prevented blackjacking. Those things were annoying.
Agreed, the Keepers did lose their sense of mystery in Thief 3. Before you had barely ever seen them, but when Thief 3 came around, they were suddenly just normal people. It was jarring, but at the same time I kinda liked it. It made Thief 3 stand as it's own game, rather than just as a rehash of what has already happened. It made it feel slightly more epic, in that you were now with that mysterious group that you knew very little about before. It gave you an insight into the lore of the Thief world as well.
Admittedly it could have been done better, such as with those Keeper Enforcers, but other than that, I actually rather enjoyed them being in Thief 3. I didn't like how quickly Garrett joined up with them though. I understand that the entire plot revolves around that, but Garrett seemed to be a bit too willing to help the Keepers in Thief 3.
Ah so you didn't steal Thief. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Probably good.
I had no idea you weren't a native English speaker. Your writing is incredibly good.
As for the commas. I am a native English speaker, and I also randomly put in commas in the hope of achieving correct punctuation. Those things are complicated.
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Well, for me Thief 3 is a bit of a mess. It's got a lot of good things but it also has its failures. As a game itself, it's very good, as a Thief game it's not as good as it should be. I really liked a lot of things about it. But I agree, Garrett did appear a little too enthusiastic at the beginning. He had expressed the wish to know more to Artemus at the end of TMA, but I did not think he'd be happy to run Keeper errands just like that, especially knowing they were still manipulating him. The fact that he had to get all those thingies for them annoyed me too. The devs could've come up with better mission ideas than that. But I did like Garrett's interactions with the Keepers in some cutscenes, especially with Orland, and then with Artemus later. "I see you've moved up in the world, Orland. Nice view." Oh, the sneer!
As for the Enforcers : when I was waiting for the game and following the information that was released preceeding it, I heard about the Enforcers and thought: they are going to be so difficult to get past. As it turned out they were not. Actually, there was a fan mission called "Equilibrium" that dealt with the Keepers much better than Thief 3. It made me respect those guys! I guess I expected the Enforcers to be even toughert than that. In TMA you have Keepers that you can spot but they vanish from sight. That was really awesome.
But I'll tell you about my pet peeve in Thief3. The walking statues. They were so incredibly annoying. Couldn't they just shut up for a moment? All they did was WAAAALK AND TAAAAALK AND WAAALK AND TAAALK. It still makes me angry when I think about it. Also they had incredibly good sight if I remember correctly.
Sometimes I wish a new game with the original Garrett was made. Obviously, it won't happen now, but a girl can dream. I'm not sure when the story should be placed, maybe it could be a little prequel or something. The story wouldn't be so epic as in the three games but maybe it could be fit between one them, like after TDP and before TMA. I know there's a lot of fan missions that deal with that but they are not canon. I would like more stories about Garrett. Oh well, it's just my wishful thinking. Maybe it's best that Garrett is left alone now. Yes, I'm looking at you, Thi4f!
About the savegames.... when I think about ghosting Cragscleft again.... ouch. I like ghosting but Cragscleft is painful. Maybe I should bonk everyone instead and play with the machines. Gonna make a lot of little hammers.
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I agree. Thief 3 had plenty of shortcomings, and like you said, it was a good game but a somewhat poor Thief game. Still, I kinda like it.
(Not as much as the two games that came before it obviously.)
There's Keepers you can spot on Thief 2? Where, which level?!?
Also yeah, the statues made a ridiculous amount of noise. I rather liked them as a enemy though, mostly because they were different and somewhat deadly. Although they were a bit overused near to the end.
I doubt they'd ever make another Thief game like that, and even if they did, I suspect they'd ruin it. But we can always dream. After all, I still hope that one day, Ron Gilbert will make his version of Monkey Island 3, although I absolutely doubt that will ever happen.
I also hope that Timesplitters 4 will one day get made, and it'll keep the game mechanics from the previous games, such as splitscreen story mode, and NO regenerating health.
Sigh... one can dream.
Just so you know, you can definitely make things in Cragscleft Prison. It used to be one of my favorite things in the level, when I was a kid.
You could also go about making things in The Cathedral, but that wasn't as fun due to all of the zombies roaming about all the time.
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Metal Age has Keepers in the Life of the Party mission. I think there are two places you can see them as you traverse the Thieves Highway. I can't exactly remember but I am sure they are there. However, not spotting them is perfectly possible, since the mission is so enormous. Although I heard that someone coshed a Keeper and carried him all through Angelwatch, which I think is hilarious
By the way of hilarious...Started playing TMA during the weekend. The second mission -"Shipping and Receiving"took me three hours to complete since I was trying to ghost it. But a lot of fun things happened! Especially the crazy hijinks on the smugglers' ship. I snuck onto the the ship and let the spiders that were contained there out and just sat back and watched. Admittedly, I had to duck an occasional sword swing but I did pilfer a much needed key from one of the smugglers, while he ran past me. I swiped what I came for and left the spiders and the smugglers to their own devices. I later came back, curious about the outcome. A spider and a smuggler drowned in the sea, the rest continued their game of hide and seek onboard of the ship. I really really love the fact that none of this is scripted and yet so much fun ensues.
Well I am glad that you can make things in Cragscleft, turns out my memory isn't so bad after all. I sometimes wish that I could experience Thief again for the first time! Although I am glad that when I first played it, I wasn't working yet because I was able to play all night and being zombified from lack of sleep did not interfere with anything serious in my life, lol.
Yeah, I think that there won't be any games of the Thief 1 and 2 calibre anymore.Unless of course some of the Kickstarters out there really work out. I heard that the LSG people were working together on a game and Stephen Russell was joining them too.
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Cool, I had no idea that mission had a Keeper you could see on it.
Thanks for telling me.
Also, I would have loved to have seen someone carry an unconscious Keeper all over the place. I bet that Keeper would never live that down
Also I had no idea that "cosh" was a word until now. You've just learnt me something new (although of course I figured out what it meant based on context).
Lol, that's a funny turn of events.
Yeah, it's usually a sign of a great game when events like that happen naturally, even though they're not scripted.
Which reminds me of a time when my dad was playing the game, and on Thief 1 on the mission Assassins, there was a guard that somehow got glitched and couldn't see Garrett even when standing right in front of him in a brightly lit room. We all figured he was blind, and my dad didn't even bother to kill him or knock him out. I think he somehow started to see right at the end of the mission, but I could be wrong about that.
I can't really think of a game from the top of my head, that I'd like to play again for the very first time. Which is sorta strange now that I think about it.
Well you never know. Sometimes surprising things can happen. While it seems extremely unlikely that a game like Thief 1 or 2 will ever be made again, who knows what could happen!
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Haha I taught you a word 
One thing came to mind when I was thinking about Thief 3. I did not really like the moral choice of robbing or not robbing the widow Moira. What was up with that? I know people play Thief in their own way and the games never actually punish the player for their style and here we have a black and white moral choice. Personally, I robbed her blind, but because I felt that's what Garrett would do.
I know that if you do not rob her of her inheritance, she sends you later a bottle of wine or something.
I dunno, is that what Garrett would really do? I know, on the other hand, that he has capacity for mercy as shown in TMA but...this is about THE MONEY. The situation with Lotus in TMA had nothing to do with Garrett's greed so that's a different situation I think.
Maybe it's that I just don't like moral choices and rewards for them in games, that's all
I hate being punished for making choices (Best example is Dishonored,). Oh well.
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I don't mind moral choices in games, but I absolutely detest it when said choice is plainly given to you in a "choose one of the following" method. I don't want my choices listed out for me, especially with a clear "good karma" and "bad karma" option, where only going for one set is going to yield anything worthwhile, and actually going inbetween yields nothing.
It's because of this, that I think the only game to handle making choices correctly, is Deus Ex (the original game, not the sequel nor the prequel), simply because it was down to you to figure out what choices you thought were availble to you.
It actually took me several years to figure out some of the potential choices in that game.
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You forgot the awful map and story. Honestly, I don't know which of them was worse 8[
Awesome comic, though. Good to see the hate spread.
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This was my first impressions. I made this comic strip straight after playing the game a bit. I didn't realize just how bad the story and maps were at the time.
Although to be honest, no jokes are coming to mind about the poor story and maps. So that's another reason.
Thanks for the compliment though, and thanks for the fav!
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You are welcome.
And yeah, I could've thought of something, but then I don't even want to draw anything resembling that piece of shit game xD After finishing it, I felt so dirty that I restarted a mission of Thief Gold to wash myself clean again. 8[
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I know what you mean. After playing Thief 4, I reinstalled Thief Gold, just so I could play a proper Thief game.
I also managed to get it working on my laptop properly this time. Turns out there has been a lot of unofficial patching going on since the last time I played it. (Either that or my searching skills have gotten better.)
I wonder why I chose Thief Gold over Thief 2?
Hmm, it's probably just because it's the first in the series, and the one I have the most nostalgia over.
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I prefer Metal Age, but thanks to my former computer not being able to run TDP, I need to catch up on Thief Gold. Bought it over Steam and oh look, it works!
At first I didn't like it much, but now I'm really enjoying it.
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I prefer Metal Age as well, but I have a lot more memories of the original Thief (due to how old I was when it was released). As a result, I've played Thief 1 a lot more than Thief 2, and that probably influenced my decision quite a bit.
I've got Thief 1, 2, and 3 on a collection cd. Actually, it's my sister who owns that, but she allows me to use it.
It doesn't even require the cd, which is nice!
Did you know you can also get Thief Gold on GOG.com?
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My bro got Thief Gold and Thief 2 off GOG
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Awesome!
They're great games aren't they?
I love GOG.com.
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Too great to be able to be ran by just damn legacy Windows machines!
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