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davidfoxfire — 2014-03-23-And it Begins to Spread
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Published: 2014-03-24 04:05:27 +0000 UTC; Views: 1617; Favourites: 5; Downloads: 9
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foxfirestudios.net/johnnybriz/…Remember what I said about color in this strip being a metaphor on Johnny and co's influence on the world?
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Comments: 22
Personally, I've been trying to steer you away from all the wish-fulfillment fluff and actually get to the dark clouds of conflict that always seem to loom on the horizon without ever getting any closer. He seems to be universally loved by everyone, and any antagonists are reduced to a non-threatening status within a page or two of introducing them. Currently, you've shown he has nothing to fear and no reason to ever want to return to his village: At the very least, Amber ensures he's not homeless and unloved, while Alex protects him from the scientists who want to capture him. Darryl will ensure his health while Jennifer will always snuggle and cuddle him when Amber is otherwise occupied (assumedly working on the cartoons off-camera). Now that you've shown Johnny as some sort of universally amiable character -- down to that nose-bumping 'Are you friendly?' scene you've been waiting years(?) to finally do -- it's high time he actually struggle with something legitimately threatening on-strip for the audience to see.
This of course, is under the assumption that Johnny has now usurped Amber's position as central protagonist of the story. Many times people like me have made the claim that once Johnny showed up (it's The Ballad of Johnny Briz after all) the other characters would be benched, only to see play when Johnny needs their support. Perhaps taking a slight detour to show Amber and Jennifer actually working on cartoons would be a good refocusing of the strip? Let's revisit Johnny in a little while and return to the initial premise of the project, shall we?
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The conflict is coming rather slowly because I have a rather slow pace on the comic. It should've been come faster, and I'll admit it. Things just didn't come to pass the way they did.
In the upcoming strips, you'll have Amber and Carolyn working on the business, while the two scientist plot a way to capture Johnny. And since Johnny's out and about in the park for the next scene--even with Alex/Leone accompaning him--there will be some people talking. It'll take time, but I'm sure I'm getting there.
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Wow, look at all the potholes on this stretch of road.
If I may play Devil's Advocate here, I do believe those hidden/deleted posts had some rather stark truths about them, and I do believe they were presented with the intent to have you see what issues are holding you back from the success you're longing for. Each of their points were punctuated with facts that, while painful, were not inherently false. Sometimes the truth hurts, but it's better in the long run to acknowledge what needs to evolve and adapt in order to make a better comic. You may not see them from your position, but Kev, Eivi and others (even myself!) have used what we're seeing on-strip to show you that there's some underlying behaviors you're exhibiting that you may not be aware of -- behaviors we are trying to make you aware of -- because they are damaging to your comic and your image. Whether you see it as 'baseless trolling' or 'personal attacks', they are being presented to you as bare and as obviously as possible -- like flashing warning signs -- in order to save you from the scorn and ridicule you'll end up with by staying this course.
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Pory, I have a good relationship with you as my critic because you stayed on topic, and you've helped me considerably with the artwork. Also, you keep the snarkiness to a limit. That's what I'm looking for in a critic.
What Kev and Evi are doing is going off into unrelated territory. Yes, getting out of "Wish Fulfillment" territory is a work in progress for me. Yes, I do need to practice more on different female figures--part of the reason why I started Revolver Princess so I can practice more. Finally, yes, I'll admit it, I'm a bit of a loner who has some inner stuggles with meeting with the opposite sex. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
But to have someone compare what's going on in my web comic to what's going on in my real life is none of their flipping business! That's when I had to tell people to knock it off, and eventually hit the bloked user function, because subconscious or not, I'm want the comic to be seperate from my (admittedly piss poor) social life. I social life I'm in the process of improving anyway.
It's not just my comic book, too. I knew I needed a definitely change in my attitude when I find myself afraid to fave a deviation here because I have people claiming that I'm a sexist pig on things I like. It was either shift to 'I don't give a fuck' mode, or cancelling my DA account because I'm sick and tired of a couple people's poor opinions of me. Since I have a couple friends and groups that are here, my choice became obvious.
So a feminist things I'm a mysogonist because I like young ladies in princess gowns. Look at all the fucks I give, woman. {Block} It's probably the only possible thing I can do about it.
I'm not saying that I don't mind someone giving me a heads up on a warning sign--like I said, I'm still working on getting out of the wish-fulfillment content--but what I don't need right now is someone taking what happens in a web comic and then seguing into discussing something about my personal life. It's something I'd like to keep seperate.
(I guess that means I should stop saying "I really need a girlfriend" during some of my more snarkier moments, but I digress.)
Let's keep the discussion to how I should improve as a web cartoonist, okay, and we'll be fine.
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For the record, you didn't actually block me! I'm sure I'll be blocked after I say this, but hey, figured I should give you a heads-up. Also, I'm legitimately impressed that my comment about "so, uh, why is your character another generic princess when there are a lot of roles women can play in fairy tales" got you to call me "woman" and curse at me!
Also, this has nothing to do with your personal life. Kev and I are just commenting on what's in your strip and in your artistic history -- a tendency towards extreme wish fulfillment, with male protagonists who are fawned over by women automatically even when that doesn't make sense. This has nothing to do with your personal life, except for the fact that you blame your personal life for why it keeps happening; it's blatant to anyone with a history of your work, and I am being entirely honest when I say that it's a large factor in keeping your work from reaching its potential. Like Pory already said, this story is conflict-free and, basically, defanged. Why bother reading when it's just going to keep going like this and Johnny's never going to experience a meaningful threat?
I expect you'll hide this comment as soon as you see it, but I really think you think about it. Believe it or not, I'm not coming from a position of malice, and I don't think Kev is either. You've so internalized the script about INTERNET HATERS that you're unable to accept criticism in the spirit of artistic improvement or self-awareness.
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I usually give people who end up blocked enough rope to hang themselves, though I have to admit that you're pretty close to the ban hammer. A telling sign would be when I start cursing, which takes a lot to do.
While instilling in parts of my personal live and wish fulfillment may be part of my previous works (and in some cases, I'll admit that it is) it's something I take steps to steer clear of in recent projects. It might not be appearant in some parts, but I also don't want to go too far on the other side and have everything be the total opposite of what I previously make. (That would fall into "trying too hard" for several parties including my own.) I'm making this JB strip with a disconnect between the strip and real life. Whatever or not that disconnect's clear enough might not be visible yet. (Like I said before, I win some and lose some, but I keep trying.)
For the record, Johnny's not fawned over every woman in the story. This will be more appearant when Johnny's seen in public in the coming strips. (starting with the next one, to be precise) Also, you don't see much conflict because, as I said before, the strip hasn't gotten to that point yet; this strip is pretty slow-paced, and I follow the rule of "Let's get to that bridge before we cross it!". I'm not going to have the gang just walk down the street and Max Lantz just appear with a 50-ton anvil on everybody's heads, metaphorically. There's such a thing as appropiate timing to think of, and I'd rather have people go "Oh Just get on with it, damnit!" than "What the Fsk did you do THAT for?"
Again, I have to remind you that the part of my contention is the transition between a child that isn't past thirteen wanting to give Johnny a hug to "How many real life dates have you had in the past year, Mister Gonterman?" In my head, it's a non sequitur fallacy. If I wanted it to be the case, I wouldn't have Johnny be mobed by fangirls. I'd have Amber fawning over a picture of someone who's a bit overweight, stays in his apartment, and pumps out cheezy comics on the internet. So when people insist on asking the same question after I post my own explanation (not to mention a question I'm not going to answer because it's nobody's business) the finger gets a little itchy when it hovers over the 'Block User' button.
Criticism is one thing. (Just look at Pory.) But I have a strict "No Asshole" rule. It takes a lot to trigger it, but at times it's necessary.
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I agree with you that your personal life isn't germane to discussion of your comic, and this is why I don't bring it up; if I have brought it up in the past, I apologize. However, as I recall our interactions, it is consistently you who brings it up, generally as an excuse for objectifying women. David, believe me when I say I don't care whether you're a cloistered monk, engaged to Miss Universe, or anywhere in between -- the issue is that your comic has writing problems, often writing problems that are very common in your work, as Kev pointed out, and that you become hostile to people who point out that this is a pattern.
I take some offense to your calling me an asshole, frankly, or saying you're "giving me enough rope to hang myself." You're the one who responded to a non-inflammatory critical comment with profanity, calling me "woman" (in case you're not aware, this is generally considered rude, although I expect you're entirely aware), threatening to ban me, and posting a passive-aggressive comment about feminism on your Foxfire Studios feed. If you truly feel as threatened by modern women as your comment there implies, I wish you luck sequestering yourself in all-male company. Your outsized hostility to me and apparent determination to ban one of your few admitted female readers for criticism is a fantastic start on your journey.
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After walking out for a bit to get my thoughts together, I have the need to state my case.
The reason why I let the words slip in panel 2 and in panel 5 are because they are dialogue. These are words that the character is speaking. Not me. Some of these characters do not follow the standard rules of grammar, but instead just uses the first words that come to mind.
In panel 2, the girl the camera is hovering over, is speaking, and she would use 'Guy' instead of 'Kid' when she's talking about someone.
Panel 5 is very notable for Pory here. This is Alex talking off camera, and while I do my best to keep from starting my sentences with 'And,' (I made sure it's edited out of this comment, for example) it looks like Alex still hasn't gotten the memo. Like in Panel 2 he used the first word that came to his mind as well. Hence, he started his sentence with 'And.' While I thought about changing that, in the end it suited him better as is. If this were narration, I would have self-edited it before I released the page. But this is someone talking--dialogue--so I make sure that what that person is saying is more proper _for that character to say_ before I make any changes. In dialogue, things aren't perfectly punctuated or grammared at times.
It's the same reason why 'And' is in the title of the page, on top. It's only a 4-5 word blurb for the page below, and it's always a fragment. Again, this is where proper grammar need not apply. However, I can be a good sport and take the 'And' out of it.
As for the girls fawning, I believe only 2-3 of them have done so: Amber, Jennifer, and the girl in panel 2. The others were rather cordial by nature (The elderly pizza lady who smiles at everybody) or the 'nice costume' type (May C Oakley, who commented that the costume might be a bit too realistic.) Carolyn is more of the "JB's a Freak" type, but she's keeping an open mind on him. 'He's here, and there's no changing that,' she'd think as she looks over a business start-up application form, 'so what do we do with him?' (Carolyn has better grasp on grammar as well.) And then there's the two scientists. That's a rather broad spectrum right there to start off with. There will be more variety in the next several pages when Johnny's out and about.
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I make a half-way decent explanation of what's going on in a web comic about how a person in a web comic talks, and how a person in a web comic reactions, and you turn it into a personal criticism of my real life?
There are times like this when I actually wonder if I'm actually talking in the English Language, and is ever reaching you? And I doubt there's autism involved because I made my explanation as clear and plain as I can get.
Since when is my relations with females, which I'll admit is spotty at best, part of your business, Kev? And since when it is your business to tell me that I'm a misogynist just because of what I posted on DA, or god forbid, what I fave?!
I'm already on "I don't give a Fuck" stages with diatribes like this, and I'm already having your comments hid, because it's clear that I am not connecting with you no matter what I say. And if it continues, you will be blocked. Because I'm putting my foot down on this personal criticisms based on something I'm making for shits, giggles, and improving of my skills.
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Kev was pointing out a pattern of wish-fulfillment that has been dominating your works for decades, David. Perhaps he wasn't tactful, but he has a point to make.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to hide his posts and leave your replies visible.
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True, but it doesn't mean that he has to go from criticising what's going on in the web comic to criticising what's going on in my real life. It's none of Kev's business.
Getting away from the Wish Fulfillment stuff is something I try to get rid of in my stories. Sure, I win some and lose some, but I keep trying. I just don't need someone constantly harping on it while I'm looking for other, more useful, advice, like tips on improving faces and torsos.
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You'd do better in overcoming your faults, both in writing and in art, if you would take a good, honest look at the pattern behind them, and try to break out of those ruts. However, I have no reason to think you'd be willing to make the effort. Year after year you just doodle the same stuff out that you've always done and wait for others to beat it into shape for you. I see no evidence that you learn from the crits; you seem to relax and assume that others will fix things up.
If that's the way you want it to be, fine, it's your right. But it's not the way to grow as an artist or writer, and it's not the way to get anyone to take you seriously.
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"Women aren't cuddle machines that gush and go gooey over every supposedly cute thing they see. You're portrayal of them here reeks of a frustrated wish dream; the overcooked fantasy of a hopelessly lonely man who wishes to be coddled. "
You do have a point here, which I really didn't notice before. In real life, if I were to see a giant mouse like that, I would want to run the other way, not pet it and call it cute. Put a mouse in a room of women and see what happens. Even the word "mouse" will send me jumping on a chair! LOL! It would give the story a more interesting twist if people DID react to actually seeing a mouse that size which can talk and walk like humans. There would be some small plots which Johnny's friends would have to keep him "secret" for a good little while before "unleashing" him to the public.
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That's a very valid point here on reactions to mice, and even bigger ones, KK. There's a particularly hilarious scene that involves the classic "EEK! A MOUSE!" response to JB, which I wanted to show earlier. Maybe this will be a great point to put that in.
Also, there is a point behind Amber letting Johnny run 'free range' style, which she'll mention as well in the coming strips. There's a reason why she wanted to put JB in the GSPT.
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As the chief text editor on this, the only reason I let that dialogue slide is because I asked him to change the word 'guy' to 'kid', given Johnny's child-like proportions and the fact that women tend to vocally express how cute kids can be.
I've had my suspicions that Johnny is David's self insertion character, but when looking at the historical trend things seem to be falling back in line with the "All Women Want the Author Avatar" work of projects past.
There's only so much I can do -- short of writing the comic myself and cutting David free of his 'responsibilities' -- to consistently fix the issue. He doesn't want that and to be honest, I don't want that either.
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Woops! I missed that part!
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Remember what I said about starting sentences with the word 'And'?
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where are you seeing this? everything i see with it comes after a comma except the first.Although i think that should be he could have some kind of disease and doesn't know it instead of don't know.
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Not only is it where David has mentioned, but it's also in the title of the strip itself.
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I know. But with what Alex was saying at the time, I couldn't bring myself to delete it. I'ts part of his dialogue. It this were script, I would've deleted it.
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One thing's for sure, those two baddies are not trustworthy.
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And this is why i'm keeping my eyes on them. Amber would kick my ass into next week if i let anything happen to Johnny. n.n;;
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