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DeepWoodian — SW: Imperial database, Allistra Rabbe
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Published: 2014-11-21 23:17:50 +0000 UTC; Views: 2465; Favourites: 31; Downloads: 19
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Description
Well, this whole thing started from the fact that I wanted to draw (and practice) different stances. At the same time I felt an urge to draw something from Star Wars so Allistra Rabbe, my Mos Eisley garrison commander, volunteered to model for me. More so because I wanted also to hone her design a bit as it was already some years when I drew her last time.These were supposed to be fast ones but the "inner detail freak" took hold of me and therefore these became much more detailed than I first planned. But I do like them quite much so the time was not wasted.
Star Wars is created by George Lucas
Allistra Rabbe is my creation.
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Comments: 37
Nice !!
It's so rare to see other badass female Imperial OCs
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Thank you!
It's indeed all too rare to find decent and competent imperial officers from any SW related books, comics or art, let alone female ones. When I first time read Kevin Andersson's trilogy, I thought that finally I would have found one. Admiral Daala. But Andersson just made her to be a ruthless and short-sighted war maniac and wasted her character totally.
That was one reason why I created Commander Rabbe. When I couldn't found any, I made one myself.
I made a quick tour in your gallery and noticed that you seem to be a fan of female imperials too. Your OC Thoryn just has a "bit" more higher rank than Rabbe. But I think that both would respect each other and get along well. After all they are both imperials to the heart.
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Also not to mention : Decent competent female Imperial OCs that aren't dressed with mini-skirts and the likes , that are basically just pin-ups
Daala was somewhat cool though , those i don't really likes are the new ones from the new canon like Admiral Rae Sloane , they're just so " overkill " in a way . High ranking , ruthless borderline evil and they seemingly didn't struggled to get where they are . They just got there " like that " and of course they"re good . It's no fun :/ Must admit i quite like Ysanne Isard too , but because she's just an utter psycho and doesn't pretend otherwise , unlike the new female officers .
Ah ah , whenever i can't find something , i too like to just " make it myself ! " 
My OC's rank just depends on when i use her really , ANH , pre or post ESB , post-ROTJ 
But yes , i think they'd get along pretty well , both Imperials at heart , loyal ^_^
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I haven't actually read or "studied" the expanded SW universe very much. From the books my only contacts are Andersson's "Jedi search" and Zahn's Thrawn trilogies. What comes to the comics, Shadows of the Empire, Dark Empire and few Rogue Squadron issues pretty much covers my knowledge on that area. I have watched few episodes of Clone Wars but I am not sure was that considered canon or EU. (This canon/non-canon thing has always been quite vague to me when it comes to other things than movies) After "Disney incident" I think that pretty much all old EU is now non-canon anyway.
In any case the EU material has never thrilled me too much. I am more fan of the old movie trilogy and old Marvel SW comics. Saddly the female inperial officers were scarce in those comics too. There were few exceptions though. I remember at least one un-named female lieutenant, captain Traal and of course Shira Brie.
By the way, as a SW fan you probably have seen this already but there is no harm to advertise this great fan made animation again and again:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN_CP4…
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I'm quite a SW nerd so i read a few books and studies a lot of EU material instead of reading more books
Well , if you have read the Thrawn Trilogy it's okay , you've read the best
I could never really get my hands on the Shadows of the Empire comics and they didn't really made much sense to me .
Dark Empire i didn't really like , the drawings weren't really appealing and the whole story was sort of " too much " , with Luke going to the Dark Side , Palpatine being reborn over-powered , Leia bringing Luke back from the Dark Side , plenty of nuts Sith shenanigans . Oh and the whole " let's bring back General Veers to demote him and kill him in 2 pages " i didn't quite enjoyed ...
I like the whole Rogue Squadrons part when they face the 181st Imperial Squadron and have to fight Isard , but the first tomes are just all-Rebel stories where they don't do much .
TCW is okay , some parts are really good , especially the " let's give a more humane face to the Clones " , but i'm not a massive fan of it . It's mostly characters we know , locations we know and situations we've seen in the Prequels , with a bit more details . The show isn't reeeally original .
The Marvel comics had a few really good episodes indeed . I absolutely adore the Original Trilogy as well , but i've taken interest in some other eras as well , like the Old Republic Era , 3000 to 4000 BBY , when the Sith still kicked asses and were legions .
I guess the video you linked me is that short TIE fighter animated movie that sent chills to my spine ? Glorious Imperial victory over rock'n'roll music ?
Yep , i've seen it countless times , i found the thing when the guy had only made the " trailer length " video , the full-length one is awesomballs
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About those comics... The drawing style of the Dark Empire wasn't really to my liking either and the story... well, all those Siths seemed to be around only so that Jedis could kill them off etc. But it was SW comic and at that time there wasn't very much of those available (at least here). I liked Shadows of the Empire more (we get to see Vader!) and even the drawing style (the first volume) was more my thing. But on latter volumes that changed and not to better. The Rogue Squadron volumes I have read were just those which concentrated to Baron Fel and the 181st Imperial squadron. But at the end I was disappointed about Fel "defecting". Why it is that if someone finally creates a competent imperial pilot or officer, he/she must be made to switch sides.
I am more fan of the traditional animation than the 3D-animation so perhaps therefore I was not so thrilled about TCW.
Original trilogy and Marvel SW comics were the big thing of my childhood and youth. I am a big SW fan even today but prequels were almost a total disappointment. Fortunately The Force Awakens was a step to a better direction.
The videolink is indeed that TIE fighter animation. When the TIE fighter game saw light in 1994 I played it like there would be no tomorrow
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True enough , at some point there weren't that many Star Wars comics , so one more is better than none at all . But dang you're so right , most of those " bad guys new Sith " were just ridiculous characters to make the good guys look like they got stronger over the years . I know right ??? Rogue Squadron finally give us a great Imperial Hero , and he ends up defecting like a bloody traitor , not to mention his son dates Solo's daughter in the EU and so on -_-
Do you have that same impression as i have : If a cool Imperial continues to remain loyal to the Empire , he has to die at some point because Imperials all have to die ( just look at Piett , Veers , hell , even Thrawn and Pellaeon )
The only way for an Imperial to survive is to defect , like Soontir Fel , and half the generals and pilots of the Rebellion -_- Ugh it's so frustrating !
I must say i don't have a favourite style , i mostly look at the story and the originality . TCW was Prequel-rehashing but the 3D style was quite original , very stylized . Rebels is a lot more interesting though imho
The comics i read the most during my childhood were the original Clone Wars comics . Then i got a few other random ones , one of the best serie i've read so far is the KOTOR serie with Zayne Carrick , a really great serie with plenty of cameos from the KOTOR game series
I bought the X-wing / Tie Fighter game serie a while back in Humble Bundle , i have to play them someday , but the controls are a bit bad on computer , i'll try getting a joystick or something
But yeah , that TIE-fighter short animated movie ? I could watch it over and over , great animations , fantastic retro-80's animated style , Imperial POV , what's not to like ?
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Yep, it seems to be a trend among writers. Maybe they are afraid to make loyal imperial characters to look good as they are on the "evil" side. Therefore if imperial characters start to be popular, heroic and cool, they'll make them to defect or kill them off. "Bad guys" can't be heroes in this politically correct world of ours. One more reason why the Imperial POV of the TIE fighter animation was so damn refreshing. I would so much watch an animation series with similar POV.
Yeah, TIE fighter game controls were "mousehand destroyers" and therefore joystic is more pleasant and smooth. But I found out that I could make much tighter turns with mouse. And you really need tight turn radius if you want to live in those fragile TIEs. So I always played with a mouse. (And I won't even start with those cursed A-wings... 
By the way. Would you mind if I would lend your Thoryn a bit? I mean that our discussion here made me think that I could draw both my Rabbe and your Thoryn together as representatives of serious imperial female characters. It wouldn't be anything too complex, perhaps just their bust portraits (pun not intented). I would credit you and your character properly. Tell me what you think.
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My thoughts exactly . And it doesn't stop with Star Wars , trust me . I'm quite a WW2 enthusiast and it's a pain it the butt to find decent comic books taking place from a German pov . So far i've found one drawn by a Belgian , and one was offered to me , a French comic called " le Grand Duc " , which party takes place from a female Soviet pilot / Night Witch as well . It seems " the larger part of the public " just prefers the good old " good guys are good and bad guys are evil and die " kind of stories . I fancy the reversed style showing the " evil " under a more gentle light , and the good as not so bright and shiny after all
I would give a lung ( and more ) to see a real animation serie or show or comic book written about Imperials . I know there's " Rebellion " featuring Janek Sunber , an old friend of Luke turned Imperial ...
Ah ah , i shall try it again then , i just have to get accustomed to the controls i guess
Bloody A-wings , we all have our reasons for hating them ... The Executor among other things
Oh sure , yes , why not !
I could in my turn make an attempt at drawing both of them afterwards , i think it's a great idea !
Strong Imperial female Officers , rising stars of the Navy and the Army , sounds great
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WW2 and nazism is still a very sore subject and it is indeed very rare to find anything told from the German POV. Not that nazism wouldn't have been truly an evil ideology but most of the average German soldiers and people weren't evil nazis. Therefore I have always enjoyed those few German POV war movies I have managed to find and watch. (Das Boot, Cross of Iron, Stalingrad to mention few). Can't say that I would have crashed to any comics with purely German POV. But like you, I nowadays enjoy mostly stories with "shades of grey" where even good guys are not knights in the shining armor.
And furthermore "evil and bad" characters are much more interesting if they are not evil just because of "evilness" but because they have some realistic cause or ideology they believe. Darth Vader wanted to have peace and order in the galaxy and Empire, in a way, did maintain that.
I have your approval then. Good to hear. And this picture is by no means any obligation for you to draw them too. I was inspired by our talks (and characters) and wanted to draw some female imperials. 
And last but not least thanks for the watch and llama. 
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I've found it to be a hypocritically sore subject , as most people just learn and are interested in what the general public prefers to hear and know ( basically tales of heroism within the Allied forces and on the other hand , how evil and cruel were the Nazis ) . Why is no one ever interested in the " truth " , the war crimes committed by the Allies , the millions of innocent German citizens who died under RAF and USAAF bombings in retaliation for the Blitz ? The German acts of heroism and goodness ? Because those happened too , and people tend to forget a bit too fast imho ...
I know right ? That's what pisses me off the most ! People are goddamn unable to understand that besides the SS and the fanatical members of the Nazi party , thousands of German soldiers were only fighting because they were told to , they were serving their country , and later during the war , defending it because the Soviets were pretty much set of destroying it if the Allied bombs hadn't done it yet .
I have loved Das Boot but it's a bit depressing , same as Stalingrad actually . But i've never heard of Iron Cross , i shall watch it asap ! I know there's also a fairly recent mini-serie that came out about the stories of 4 kids that would eventually make their way through the war , German POV as well . If you like drama , i recommend you watch " Secret Army " , it's a British / Belgian show ( quite old ) that takes place partly from a Resistance movement POV in Brussels , and party from the local German occupying forces POV as well . It is really good and as a Belgian myself it was most interesting to watch and hear people mention places i know . It's also really good because it's all grey , there is no black and white in the show , and there's a lot of duality pictures on the German POV , as it is always shared between 2 Officers ( one being an SS arsehole that is easily one of the most despicable character i've ever seen on TV , and one being the Major in charge of the local Luftwaffe forces who's job is to find crashed British airmen , him being a lot nicer and one of the most sympathetic chars on the show , you know him all right already as " Captain Needa "
Yes , grey characters usually have deeper motives than just " make good " or " make bad " . Vader isn't typically the kind of character i would refer to , as he was the Emperor's puppet and ultimately just wanted to overthrow him with the help of Luke to rule the Galaxy . A few chars from the EU and some Officers on the other , i like to think they fought for what they believed was right , but were realistic enough to know galactic-wide peace wouldn't be achieved my talking and were thus ready to pacify the Galaxy through War if necessary . The Rebellion is just too idealistic for my liking .
Oh don't worry , it will be my pleasure to draw them too , i have to move my lazy arse and draw more anyway , so any reason to do so is a good one
Ah ah you're welcome , the pleasure is all mine
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Well, it seems that beside SW we have an another common interest: WW2.
Those same general opinions concern also Finland in some part (I am Finnish you know). Finland was Germany's ally during WW2 and that means we were on the "wrong side". So even if we were not "bad guys" we were allied to those. But to any who may wonder why we did so I can answer that the only other option would have been to "ally" (submit) with Soviet Union and Stalin. And what that would have ment... well, you just have to look what happened to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania to know what our fate would have been then. And after Winter War, the trust to Soviet Union and Stalin wasn't very high here.
Serious war films are often depressing and especially those which show the German POV tend to be so. War films showing allied side are many times more "lighter" or like action films. This is of course not the case with all the films but seems to be some sort of a trend. At least that's my opinion.
Cross of Iron is directed by Sam Peckinpah and lead parts are played by James Coburn and Maximilian Schell. The film is set on the eastern front. I know that fairly recent miniseries you mentioned and I have seen it. It was quite good if also very depressing (see above
I have actually wrote a journal entry about war movies I find to be good. You can find it here in dA. Here's the link: fav.me/d5itn92
With Vader I ment actually young Anakin/Darth Vader who saw Republic to be too weak and bureaucratic and wanted something which would have will and means to end the conflicts by force. Fast and without hesitation. But I admit that he is not the best example of this.
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I find WW2 to be a most interesting subject with so many aspects to study and learn about . The weapons , the technology , the battles , the politics ...
I'm very fond of aviation and tank warfare in WW2 , particularly German as they were so advanced over most others . I'm currently reading Rudel's biography and i bought once of Guderian's books on tank warfare as well . I also have a book about Rommel called " Iron Cross " as well , sad he never had the time to write a biography or memoirs ...
I know Finland was an ally of Germany but i can't really blame Finland and you weren't exactly in good terms with the Soviets at the time , so ... And honestly , being an ally of Germany in the beginning didn't sounded like a bad idea , the nation was growing , they had a tremendous strength and nearly conquered the whole of Europe before STARTING to suffer defeats which eventually lead to their defeat . I'm Belgian , so my country was under the occupation during both WW , we had a bit of Resistance going on , a bit of collaboration too , the country was somewhat divided because the Flemish were treated better than the Wallons due the language being fairly close the German . I also have some vague Hungarian origins and well , Hungary was also on the " bad side " of the War so to say . I learned at my grand-father's funeral ( on my father's side ) that he willingly went to Germany to work in order the " fight off the Soviet invader " . A better way to say that he collaborated
I agree , most war movies on the Allied pov show the " lighter " aspects of the war and those fancied by Hollywood like the sheer heroism and courage of all Allied soldiers , they willingness to sacrifice for a greater cause , their good hearts and the spirit of camaraderie and unity , and loyalty and bla bla bla ... A bit like Saving Private Ryan , it's a very good movie and many claim it to be one of the best WW2 movie but i don't love it all that much , the Squad of soldier you follow throughout the movie isn't exactly the most sympathetic lot .
Oh , now that i get to see the cover picture of Cross of Iron i think i stumbled on it once in my never-ending quest of movies taking place from German POV . It is now slowly downloading , i shall perhaps watch it tonight or tomorrow . Yes i think i have heard indeed that the mini-serie wasn't really a happy one , i've seen it on DVD here in a Media Markt store . I only heard about Secret Army very recently and stumbled on the show totally by accident ( surprisingly enough since the show takes place and was filmed in my country and is about WW2
Oh yes , young Anakin indeed was more interesting . I like how he actually discusses the matter with Tarkin in The Clone Wars serie since both agree that the Republic isn't ready to do what it takes to end the war , instead the simply prolong it by not taking more drastic actions .
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More common areas of interest then. While all history of both WW's have always been my areas of interest, I have also been especially fond of the aviation and tank warfare, again (like you) mostly about Luftwaffe and German side. Finnish WW aviation has also interested me much because while we mostly had only very mixed and obsolete planes, we still managed to achieve huge results against soviets. One other big interest is the Naval warfare, especially during WW1. After all it was the last time when pure battleships versus battleships battles were fought. Again for some odd(?) reason it's the German naval doctrine and German high seas fleet which interest me most. I like to read about Finnish navy too but as we didn't need any big, open sea fleet and, more importantly, couldn't even afford it
I have to admit that I have not read very much or detailed books about situation in Belgium. Mostly just general information from the attack through Belgium during 1940. Some TV document which I have seen and which concentrated to Hergé, touched these matters a bit though. But I didn't knew about the Flemish and Wallons.
I have read Rudels book and liked it, although I must say that he does not hide his political orientation at all. Also books about Erich Hartmann, Marseille and several others concentrating on different plane types and aces. (Osprey aircraft of the aces series). From the tank side I have read for example few books about Rommel and memoirs of Otto Carius (Tigers in the mud) and book about Count Strachwitz but Guderians books have eluded me. How are those you have read?
Then there are several of those general WW books and books which concentrate to some spesific battles like Kursk, Battle of the Britain, etc which I have read plenty.
Now, what other common interests we conjure up next.
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WW1 interests me as well but ( like so many other people ) i find WW2 more interesting . What i find mostly sad about WW1 ( and which is beautifully " explained " by Sabaton in " The Price of a Mile " as well as the early chapters of Guderian's Achtung Panzer book ) is the amount of life that had the be scarified insignificant gains , how it took months to armies to capture a mere kilometre . And for what result in the end ? The impoverishment of Germany to the point that they were obliged to take drastic actions that lead to a bigger , even more violent World War less than twenty years after ...
One is a hypocrite if he pretends he's not interested in German panzers , they were the most gorgeous , and by far the best . Same with aviation , i adore the Luftwaffe 
I'm less fond of Naval warfare , here again my knowledge is limited to the Bismarck , the Tirpitz and U-boots thanks to a documentary serie called " Nazi Megastructures " on Discovery Channel
Is that one Finnish ship in a place where you can visit it or is it still in service of the naval forces ?
Oh , i don't think there are many books on the situation is Belgium , besides it wasn't very different from other countries under the Occupation . There were curfews , restrictions , the food was rationed ...
Let's just say that the country is still pretty much divided nowadays and Walloon and Flemish don't really get along . The Flemish think the Walloon are lazy ass people , and the Walloon think the Flemish are all racist Nazis so yeah
The current situation of Belgium is extremely complicated the explain in only a few lines , this video explains it well with humour though : www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwHot…
When i started reading the book , i was unaware of Rudel's political beliefs , which sort of disappointed me . I still admire the pilot , but not the man . The spend the whole book wondering how he didn't die , he completed so many operation sorties , it's truly amazing . I have yet to read a book about Hartmann ( i hope he's less of a Nazi than Rudel ) because i really like how his priority was to bring back all of his wingmen home rather than gain glory . It's also a shame how the Yanks handed him over the Soviets knowing perfectly well that he must've been on their " Top 2 pilots to shoot down " with Rudel ... Gee , the man spent what , 5 or 10 years in a Russian prison for being good at his job ? Unless he committed war crimes i'm unaware of ...
The only book i'm currently reading from Guderian is " Achtung Panzer " and it's not memoirs like i had thought , it starts as a historical guide on warfare and tank warfare , starting with WW1 , and then goes on over military tactics , the proper use of tanks in WW2 . It's a manual the tank warfare really , and apparently tank operators had to read it during WW2 as part of their studies . An interesting book but not a very exciting one , so far i still prefer Stuka Pilot .
So , besides Star Wars and World War Two , particularly aviation and tanks , Art ( or we wouldn't be discussing all this on DeviantArt
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Sadly neither of the armored ships lasted to be restored as museum ships. As said the other one was sunk in 1941 and the other was handed over to soviets as war reparation after the war. If we could have kept it and would have been wise enough to preseve it, it would have been a marvelous historial piece and huge tourist attraction nowadays. But unfortunately it did not happen and very much other material (like planes, tanks etc) were also scrapped before the historical value was realized much much later.
But we do have one rare navy piece as a museum. Finland had 5 submarines during the war. After the war 4 were sold to Belgium
Have you noticed that, especially in America, every WW2 German related document or program is almost always titled as Nazi this and Nazi that. Not German but Nazi. Well, it propably sells better but it is once again quite sad remainder how the general population sees things.
Hartmann was definitely not like Rudel. I think that actually quite few of the Luftwaffe pilots were Nazis. Rudel seems to be more of an exception among them and not very liked as a person. Both him and Hartmann were still remarkable and incredible pilots in their own areas. One can only astonish their will and determination to fly. What comes to pilots and books there's also the memoirs of Adolf Galland " The First and the Last" which I have read. But that was quite long time ago so I don't remember much of the quality. But to an aviation enthusiast it definitely will be a good read.
Games yes. RPG games definitely yes. My favorites include "The Elder Scrolls" -series and "Dragon Age" -series. Earlier I was also very much into air war simulators. I have also played few online games like LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) and Age of Conan
You don't happen to play basketball?
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As War reparations to a Nation that caused nearly more troubles than it helped solve ? Funny
A shame indeed that it's only years after the war that we started realized how much historical value all those fighters and tanks and vessels had . But luckily enough , we still have a whole lot of WW2 memorabilia .
Oh , apparently that Vesikko submarine has a website and all , you can probably visit it !
Submarines are somewhat fascinating i think . I'm not claustrophobic or anything , but say that your submarine is badly damaged and deep under water , there's no where to go , no way to escape . Sort of an underwater death trap . In the air , if your craft doesn't disintegrate first , you can bale out , make a run for it ...
Yeah , the word " Nazi " is a huge " click-bait " on the web , works the same with books and articles and all . " The Nazis did this and that " , " Secret Nazi weapon " , sure sounds more catchy than " Secret German weapon " ... But all those little things are indeed not helping people make a difference between " German " and " Nazi " . Sad ... No wonders people tend to have a really bad opinion of people making Reenactment , particularly German Reenactors . Of course if you're all dressed up as an SS or you wear some sort of badge or medal on your uniform that clearly identifies your as a member of the Party , then you are making the line extremely vague on purpose and have no excuse whatsoever if you wind up in troubles .
In Secret Army and various other movies , books and shows ( whenever Luftwaffe Officers are depicted ) they usually aren't big supporters of the Party indeed . I like to think of the Luftwaffe pilots / officers as people who actually had values and honour , the " code of the air " and that sort of things ( of course not all of them had it ) , besides , they usually risked their lives on a daily basis , several times a day , so there's no place for idealistic ideas . They had to deal with facts and realities , like most front-line combatants . Hence they would likely disregard buffoons thinking high of themselves because they adorned SS insignias and had a ridiculously high authority over the Luftwaffe , Wehrmacht and Kriegsmarine despite having no real idea of what happened on the front as they were usually enjoying the comfort and security of whatever place they were stationed at , far behind the lines .
But yes , Hartmann and Rudel were undeniably the greatest pilots of their times , if not of all times , regardless of what political ideas they held . The eagerness to fly , the go back , the determination despite the risks , and of course the sheer talent .
Thanks for reminding me of Galland , i had completely forgotten about him !!
Ah , the Elder Scrolls . I started with Morrowind and it's imho the best . People always claim in was Oblivion but then they've never played Morrowind . Morrowind > Skyrim > Oblivion . The amount of time i've spent on those games ...
I have only played a bit of Dragon Age Inquisition , being a massive Sci-Fi enthusiast i always preferred the Mass Effect franchise over Dragon Age . But they both play a bit the same , glorious Bioware studios
You don't need to be young to cosplay
I'm also part of the 501st Legion , the biggest Star Wars costuming group , and again , most people in the Legion are adults . We have a lot of standards and rules to respect , also our organisation is actually meant for charity , so again , nothing about cheap cosplaying on that part as a full suit of Stormtrooper armour is usually worth around 1000$ , more or less with the accessories and shipping and custom fees
There is a Finnish Garrison of the 501st Legion . Well , i think it's a Scandinavian Garrison that regroups both Norway and Sweden as well but i know a Finnish member of the 501st so
Don't tell me about small margin activities , our country is so tiny that even with all the good-will in the world , every " uncommon hobby " is usually limited in one way or the other by the few amount of people interested or the fact that it's hard to find the place , the materials or whatever ...
I did for a year , my brother plays basketball , but i'm not that much into it
I stopped doing sports a while ago , i was more into fencing ( kendô and medieval ) that i practised for 5 years
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Well, winners can demand whatever they'll want. Deserved or not. Finland did not capitulate unconditionally and was not occupied but Soviet union decided that Finland alone was quilty to the war and among several other things demanded reparations equal to 300 million gold dollars from us.
Yes, Vesikko is located at the Suomenlinna sea fortress in Helsinki and can be visited and toured also inside.
Yes, I too consider Morrowind to be the best of the three and it was actually my first big RPG game ever. Before Dragon Age, my main fan art subjects were also TES related. And speaking about Dragon Age. I really recommend the first part of the DA series. The Dragon Age Origins. It's by far the best of the three when it comes to the plot, story, feeling and music. And it has some really great companions and perhaps the most popular love interest character among DA series as well.
Scifi... Have you by any change watched Babylon 5? If not I'll recommend to give that series a change. I am a huge SW fan and I like Star Trek as well but Babylon 5 is my number one scifi TV series ever. It's effects may look a bit weird first (I thought so too at the start) but the great story and characters really "suck you in".
Yeah, reenactors are usually more mature and older. But, like said, it's really marginal hobby here in Finland and they are still often "judged" to be adults who "still want to play". While cosplaying teenagers will cause many people to look them oddly and shake their heads, they are still more accepted as they are, well, teenagers.
Medieval fencing? You don't happen to have some chain mail armor in your closet too?
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Yeah , the Soviets weren't exactly the kind of people who would've asked for reasonable reparations either . " Hey , sell your country if you can , we want more ! " ...
I'm really amazed at how Germany managed to pull everything out and have a pretty solid economy while probably having to pay endless millions of debts because of both World Wars . Although , i think they paid off all the reparations due to World War One recently ?
Ah ah , you too ? I think i started " gaming " with TES III Morrowind , Halo Combat Evolved ( the very first one basically ) and Star Wars Jedi Academy , those 3 games hold a special place in my gamer heart . They were all fantastic in their own way
No , i didn't had to chance to watch Babylon 5 , nor Battlestar Galactica . I heard both were really good . I shall download Babylon 5 , i've been looking to watch more Sci Fi lately . If you haven't already watched it , i recommend checking out " Farscape " , an Aussie Sci Fi show with an interesting plot and loooots of crazy Aussie humour , it's really a one of a kind show with lots of practical effects from Jim Henson company . The CGI sometimes look a bit old because the serie started in 1999 but it's one of my favourite shows
It's fairly marginal here too , most Belgian groups don't exceed 10 members unless they Reenact Americans . Usually when there's big events here ( whenever that happens ) we get a lot of Re-enactors from Germany , UK , France and the surrounding countries . But oh well , i stopped worrying about what people thought of me and what i was doing a loong time ago
+ It's usually great if you can Reenact the army from your own country , i've never seen anyone Reenact Finnish soldiers before !
Nah , unfortunately between the 501st Legion , Reenactments and the few other hobbies i have , i can't really afford a good chainmail
I do have my good old battle ready sword though
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Yes me too. Guilty as charged
The new remake Battlestar has gathered praises and I too watched the first season and bit of second but then, for some reason, I gave it up. Perhaps it was the idea of human like cylons which bothered me. I have seen the original series as well and to me "the true" cylons are always those shining metal "toasters".
Finnish WW2 soldier Reenacters are usually seen only in few of our local events. Often military related or otherwisely history related happenings, like parades or tank museum events. Although when it comes to army related events some of the "acters" are most likely serving conscripts. Sometimes some scale model shows can have few Reenacters present too. Anyway here's a short compilation clip from one of our independency day parades which have few climpses of old material too. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSMeD…
I never LARP:ed but I did play tabletop roleplaying games like MERP (Middle Earth Roleplaying Game)
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Some of my friends watched it and said it was really good particularly because of the human Cylons , because the show raises the questions " what makes someone ' human ' ? " as some of the Cylons aren't even aware that they're not humans . I like shows and movies who raise interesting questions like that or openly criticize humanity like District 9 .
Oh god , Firefly was amazing , so sad there's only 1 season . Sci-Fi Western for the win
Tank museums events are always nice , and often an opportunity to have a ride , or at least witness them in " action " . It's sad that those Reenacters are conscripts from the army rather than passionate people . Damn , looks like you have some nice Army demos in Finland , but all those guys looked so young , do you still have to do military service in Finland ? Here we don't , which is a shame , maybe the youngs would be a bit more disciplined and respectful if they had to ...
My day was complete today , i saw a real BMW R75 . We met with friends of my parents in Ypres ( Flander's Field , WW1 ) and lots of old vehicles drive by , and some guy just parked his beautiful bike with side-car in front of the terrace where we were having a drink . We also visited one of the many British cemetery of the city and turned into a big crybaby .
Basically LARP is exactly the same thing except you do it live , so there's more action obviously
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Yes, Finland still have universal male conscription. All men above 18 years of age are liable to serve. Females can do a voluntary service. Service time vary from 6 to 12 months depending on the rank and task. Service is usually done at the age of 18-20 so therefore those guys look so young. There is also a possibility to do a non military service but usually almost about 70-80 % of the each male generation do the military service. In Finland it is still seen for many as a strong tradition and matter of honor to serve. Therefore Finland has one of the largest (reserve) armies in Europe.
And yes, I too have served and as I have been quite active in voluntary military defence activities after my conscript days, I am currently holding the rank of Senior lieutenant. It is also my solem opinion that the conscript service is a really healthy and educating experience for all who goes it through.
Ypres... and you got to see German sidecar motorcycle along other things. I have to admit that I have not visited any of the European battlefields, except some of our own. But what comes to the cemetaries, every town and village in Finland has it's own war cemetery (usually a separate part of the ordinary cemetery) where all those who have died in our wars have been buried. It was a Finnish custom that all the fallen were tried to evacuate from the front and buried on their home locality. And in most of the cases this was done. Therefore we don't have those big battlefield cemeteries which are more common elsewhere in Europe.
Well, now I got excited and babled only about Finnish military customs.
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It is a good thing that the military service is still regarded as a tradition and something you have to do . Here most people view it an archaic tradition , because young people should be allowed to choose what they want to do and that kind of shit . Young have to right to do this and that , and they want to be free to be a bunch of ungrateful slackers with no manners whatsoever . I'd like it to be obligatory here too , it'd be a nice thing i think .
Oh you are still in the army ? That's cool ! Army or Police was always my plan B if i didn't found a field of studies upon finishing school . I would've probably go to the Officer's school or something , don't really know what for . Maybe K9 or maybe biker cop . I wanted to be a pilot when i was younger , but i suck at math and physics so much ... Haven't abandoned the idea of getting my flying license someday though
Ypres is a really pretty little town with typical Flemish architecture and a lively centre with plenty of little stores and restaurants and souvenirs shops held by Brits ( they're all selling Flander's Poppies and little crosses ) , fairly " new " as well since it was destroyer during the First World War . Most of the buildings were build during the 20's . There's something really special about the cemeteries , they're so pretty and calm and really well maintained because England keeps sending money to us specifically for the cemeteries . All the little white stones with the Poppies and little British , Canadian , Australian flags ... There's also a tunnel / arch kind of thing in the town center called the " Menenpoort / Porte de Menin " where the names of over 50 000 soldiers is written , and everyday since the First World War at 8pm the local firemen play a bugle called the " Last Post " the honour the fallen . There are also German cemeteries but they're not very pretty , they're much more austere and dark .
It's a nice thing that the people who were killed were brought back to their home towns , or brought back at all rather than their corpse left to rot on the battlefield . I'm curious now about Finnish military customs
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Well here in Finland it is still seen really important to have the means and will to defend the country if necessary. And that means whole country, not just big cities. And that can be done only with large enough nation wide conscript army. As we also have this quite long eastern border with... well, you know who, we have always been quite reluctant to entrust those who think that there is no need for armies anymore. I surely hope that we never see the situation like in Sweden which has abolished almost all her land army.
No, I am not a career soldier so I am not working for the army. But all who have served the conscript service will belong to the reserve whole time until the age of 60. During that time reservists live their lives as they please but they may be called to "refresher trainings", where military skills are trained and practiced again. Some may never get these calls while some others may get those quite often. Your rank, posting, age, own activity and govermant budget all affect to this. As I myself do quite much voluntary national defence work and attend courses. field camps and trainings, I have been promoted twice. But like said I am a reserve officer not a career officer.
Here in Finland many who want to become a police or some security personnel often also want to serve as a military police in the army. That is counted as a big plus when applying and they get a good basic skills already from there. I have to say though that police work is really hard, both physically and mentally. Not all can handle that but therefore I respect those who do serve as polices.
I can imagine that those big cemetaries can be quite affecting places and monuments for all those lives lost. And it is good to hear that at least those British ones are maintained well.
I am propably talking your ears off with the Finnish military.
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Fair enough , i can get why a country that shares a border with Russia would be sceptical over dropping the military service
I assume that is Sweden did it , they had good reasons to do so ... We have an army but it's proportionate to the size of our country , so it's tiny . I think our Navy or Air Force is merged with the Netherlands Navy or Air Force or something because we are so small . But oh well , we share a border with Germany so i wouldn't be all that scared , they'd be over the place within two hours , same for the Brits .
Well that's an interesting way of doing things . So basically you can do whatever you want , but should the need arise , you could be called upon tomorrow to serve your country ?
I think here the saddest aspect of being a police officer is that no one respects the police any more . Most people see them as a bunch a douches who use blue lights to cut traffic and that are totally useless . But when we have terror attacks , everyone is so glad to see them patrolling the streets though ...
Unless you have no respect whatsoever for the fallen and those who gave it all , it's hard not to feel a bit affected by those places . Especially when you look at some and realize " That guy was my age , he could've lived a full and happy life ... " . I haven't seen any WW1 military cemetery that wasn't taken care of properly here in Belgium .
Nah , i've never really heard of the Finnish military before , it's always interesting to learn something new
I'll check out for books on the Winter War , especially since i prefer the read over the Eastern Front theatre .
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Many Finns still think that the only defender we may count are us Finns alone. If a war or some other similar event comes, no other will come to defend our country so we must do it ourselves. This mentality stems especially back from the Winter War when we were left alone against Soviet Union, despite the fact that we were part of the League of Nations. The league condemned Soviet Union and expelled it from it ranks. But while it also recommended other nations to help us, the help was mostly goodwill. Some volunteer aid was given though, especially by Sweden but also by Denmark and Norway (not surprisingly to a fellow Nordic nation). Material donations were made too but big part of the material was bought and paid and arrived too late so that those would have impacted the war. Biggest sellers/donors were Sweden, Italy, France, Great-Britain, Belgium and USA. There were others too. But as not a single country stepped in directly, we Finns felt that we were left alone. Brits and French planned to send an intervention force to nothern Finland via Norway and Sweden but it was more a smokescreen to a operation which would have occupied the ports of Norway and iron-ore mines of Sweden which played a big part of supplying Germany's war economy.
But all this (and more) you can read from books if you want to so I won't bother you more.
The Winter War - The Soviet Attack On Finland 1939-1940 by Eloise Engle and Lauri Paananen
- Not so detailed but gives a good general overview of the events of the Winter War.
A Frozen Hell - From William R Trotter
- Much more detailed. Analyzes more the causes of the war and events which led to the war. It also gives much more detailed accounts of the separate battles during the war.
So basically you can do whatever you want , but should the need arise , you could be called upon tomorrow to serve your country ? Yep, that's it basically.
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Yeah , but the League of Nations then was a bit ... flimsy ? I think that should the need arise , as Finland is a member of the EU , help would come . Then again if the need arises , we'd be in one big mess of a situation . The world is already crazy as it is with all those shootings and bombings all across Europe ... But i do understand the feeling , i've always find it weird that Finland was left alone to fight the Soviets . Of course on could argue that you didn't had many Allies during the War either and that the Germans already had their hands sort of full with the Eastern Front too :/
Can't really blame the Allied nations either , after all Finland was a satellite / puppet state of the Axis , so it's only logical that Neutral and Allied countries were reluctant to step in directly , since the Soviets were " Allied " too , so to speak of . Although that is always somewhat debatable . I don't know if it's purely American propaganda , but around here we generally believe that if the Americans weren't on there way to Berlin when the War ended , we would all speak Russian now . After all the Soviets were one step away from being all over Europe , and Stalin was crazy so ...
I'll check out those books , see if they're available here . One can never read enough about WW2 .
You wouldn't happen to know a a couple good books about the Luftwaffe ? Global or about specific battles / pilots , memoirs ...
Preferably not written by a British author that's likely to brag about the alleged superiority of the RAF .
I already avoid all readings in French because French books and magazine always claim the many victories of Germany are due to luck and that kind of bullshit .
Seems to me like they're still butthurt about Rommel making the Tour de France in 1940 with his Ghost Division , among other things
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Yeah, at that point it was already clearly shown that the league had more or less failed and had no power or means to really intervene or affect a major conflict, not even when partisipians were its own members.
At the time of Winter War (Novembwer 1939 - March 1940) Finland was still neutral and would have really wanted to stay so. As a democratic country we had always aligned ouselves with the western world and western democracies and many of our top leaders were in fact anglophilic back then. There were many ties and sympathy towards Germany too but as the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was still in the "full bloom" and Hitler and Stalin were "best buddies", Germanys attitude toward Finland was really cold. To Hitler we were (at that time) just some small nation which he could lightly promise for Soviets to take. Therefore no help, not even sympathy or good will arrived from Germany during Winter War. As a neutral Nordic country, which was attacked unjustly, Finland duly expected help from the league and from the other western democracies. When no help came, Finland felt that it was left alone to the mercy of the eastern barbarism (=bolsheviks).
Finlands and Germanys relation during 1941-1944 is more complex and indeed we were allies then, even if we never joined the axis formally. We Finns have always seen it that we were co-belligerents. We had one common enemy; Soviet Union.
After Winter War Finland tried to search allies, but France had collapsed, Britain was far away and Germany controlled all sea/trade routes there. Planned Nordic defence union (especially with Sweden) was opposed or more precisely outright forbid by Soviets and Germans. Closer and improved relations were sought particularly with Sweden, Norway, United Kingdom, Soviet Union and Third Reich but with exception for the case of Nazi Germany, all of these attempts turned out to meet critical obstacles. At the same time Soviet pressure towards Finland was really dense. It's quite ironical that if Soviets would have actually wanted to push Finland to Germanys arms, they hardly could have done it better than the way they behaved during 1940-1941. Therefore Germany was the only major power which could offer protection against Soviet Union and later also to offer s change to get the territories lost in Winter War back. Hence I don't think it as a surprise that we went with the Germany.
During 1941-1944 Germany had troops in our regions and they also had much influence about our matters. They could also pressure us by stopping their weapon and grain deliveries (Germany was our main trade partner at that time (food deliveries were really criticall) Still Finland was not Germanys puppet and we fought Soviets according to our own political and military goals. And we really did not fight others but Soviets. Brits (United Kingdom) declared war on us (because of Soviet demands) but USA never did and the only British war action on Finnish soil was targeted against Germans.
But yeah, Finlands attendance to war during 1941-1944 is very easy to see only as a Nazi ally without more studies about the subject.
See how I ramble...
Luftwaffe related books? Well you already know Rudels and Gallands memoirs. But here are some more:
The Blond Knight of Germany (Erich Hartmann) by Toliver and Constable
The Star of Africa (Hans-Joachim Marseille) by Heaton and Lewis
Fliegen- mein Leben (Hanna Reitsch memoirs)
JG 26 - Top Guns of the Luftwaffe by Caldwell
Aircraft of the Aces -series by Osprey (for eample www.amazon.com/German-Night-Fi…
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Oh i didn't knew that Finland was actually neutral during the early years of the War . Then of course one can easily understand why Finland turned to the only country that was able or willing to offer some form of protection when the Soviets started to push forward into Finnish territory .
Yes i think i watched a documentary about the Winter War once and it did mention that there were important trading relations between Finland and Germany . I did not meant that the whole country was a puppet , but more like some politicians and officials were , which was fairly common back then , hence Germany's influence over Europe was still grand until quite late in the war .
Thanks for your explanations ! I like to learn more than what is commonly thought about those kind of subjects , War is never all black and white .
I'll try to look into the Blond Knight book and Hanna Reitsch's memoirs , those might be interesting . And check out the Aircraft of the Aces serie
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A late reply, but here's some info about Finlands food situation during WW2. I am sorry if I bore you with these "mammoth" replies.
Indeed Finland's food upkeep was very much dependent of Germany during war. All our other traditional trading partners were pretty much cut off. We were at war with Soviet Union, Norway, Denmark and almost all the Europe was under Germany's rule and trade routes to England and USA were controlled and cut off by Germany (and later allies). Sweden refused to sell food during 1940-41 for some reason or other (perhaps their own situation was bad too).
Add to this that:
- Because of Winter War, Finland had just lost about 11% of its agricultural land areas to Soviets.
- About 65% of working-age men were in the army.
- About 10-20% of horses (the "tractors" of that age) were drafted to the army too.
- Import of fertilizers used in agriculture had dropped because lack of suppliers and currency.
- The weather during 1941 and 1942 was very bad for grain and potatoe cultivation.
All this led to the situation that the harvest during summer 1940 was already bad but during 1941-42 it was a catastrophe. The harvest was only about 50% of the need. It was calculated that if army and farmers would have been given a normal food share, about 2,5 million other Finns would had got only about 20% of their normal food need. This would have ment a major famine. Therefore it was clear that it was an utmost necessity to get more food from Germany.
And Germany used this need as a leverage for their political agendas. They wanted that Finns would have continued their attack towards Leningrad in Carelian isthmus. This was asked about 3 times by general Erfurth and once by general Alfred Jodl. Finns declined all Erfurths suggestions and therefore Germany halted the grain shippings. Even to Jodl Finns only promised to make some initial plans and preparations for a small attack but not any promises to execute those. It is still a bit wonder that Hitler finally gave the permission to ship grain to Finland. The grain shippings arrived so late that Finland had food storages for only about a week needs left. The German grain prevented the all out famine but hunger was still present in many places. Especially among the more poor city population, asylums and prisons. It was also one major reason for the high mortality rate of the Soviet prisoners of war in Finland during 1941-42. The winter of 1941-42 is therefore known as "Hunger-winter" here in Finland.
About the Nazi support here. Like said earlier most of the top leaders of Finland were more anglophiles. But Germany was also much sympathized because of their help to us during our Civil War (1917-1918), because there was many cultural, industrial and family ties between Finland and Germany and because of the general opinion that Germany had been treated unfairly in the peace treaty of the WW1. Many also saw Hitlers rise to power and the following economical "boom" in Germany in very positive light. If not otherwise then at least because Germany was seen to be the only power in Europe which could halt communists. And the fear and hate towards Communism was quite common in Finland during 1930's. Despite of this the Nazi ideology never got any significant support here. We had our own right-wing movements and parties (one even tried a coup during 1932) but those idolized more Fascists (Mussolini-Italy) than Nazis. On the other hand many top Finnish individuals had good personal relations to some top German figures. For example Göring was quite supportive and positive towards Finland, even during Winter War against the official policy of Germany.
Like said earlier, Germanys attitude toward Finland was really cold during Winter War and this disturbed the relations somewhat. But when Hitler started to plan his attack to Soviet Union, he also started to see that Finland could be a good ally in this case. German military liaisons in Finland started to drop hints about the coming attack to Soviet Union and similar hints were given to visiting Finnish officers in Germany. Hitler also promised to sell weapons for the right to transit troops in Norway through Finland. Our leaders saw this as an opportunity to get the lands lost in Winter War back (and more if possible) and to help crush the communist threat for good. The heavy Soviet pressure during 1940-41 only made it more easier to lean on Germanys side. (Soviets demands about Finlands big nickel mine in Petsamo, Soviet occupation of the Baltic states, shooting down a Finnish passenger plane Kaleva, supporting openly revolutional agenda of Finnish communists and interfereing Finnish internal politics).
We Finns saw Germany and us as a comrades in arms against common enemy and wanted that our war with Soviet Union would have been seen only as a "separate war". Only against Soviet Union, without ties to the war against other allies. But of course it was not seen as that and of course there was also other ties between Finland and Germany than just those. And while we tried only to fight the war with our own goals in mind, Germany could not be totally ignored and had to be conform with.
Still one example about the fact that we were not mindless German satellite was that Finnish jews were not persecuted or departed to Germany. When Himmler himself visited Finland to discuss about the jew question, our prime minister replied to him: ”Wir haben keine Judenfrage” (We have no jew question). In fact Finnish jews fought with other men in army so that in a way they were fighting as Germanys allies. The most astonishing thing is that the German Iron Cross was awarded to 3 Finnish jews. All three refused the award.
To be fair it must be also said that Finland did extradited 10 jews who had come to Finland from German controlled areas and who were therefore not Finnish citizens. We also exchanged some prisoners of war with Germany and among those prisoners handed over were about 30 from jewish origins.
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Wonderful posing and nice work on establishing her background and uniform
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Great that you like these. 
Like said, pose practice was the main goal here, but as a bonus I could do a sort of "collage" about commander Rabbe as well.
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(I know, I know.... late again 
Nice action and nice poses.... And the detail freak strikes again. The whole thing get bit more alive once you throw in a bunch of extra details, doesn't it? I particulary like the "blast them" one, it's a tricky pose with lots of anatomy to think about. I also like the sitting pose. Like she's just been bothered on her morning break - "What is it? What do you want?"
As a side note - you don't see that often, people drawing females sitting like that. More often than not it's more dainty and lady-like. And as a not very lady-like person myself I'd like to comfirm it's a lot more comfortable sitting like that (on condition that what I'm sitting on is very low).
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You have been forgiven my child...
But yeah, I know very well that sometimes there just isn't enough time to comment. There are also times when we just don't feel like commenting, even if we would like to. Then it's better to leave it later. And as the artist will learn some patience at the same time, it's just a good thing.
"Blast them" was a admittedly a tricky pose, although it came out finally without big problems. References were used, like with almost every pose in this sheet. But none are a 1:1 copy. I tried and wanted each of these to have my "own touch" in them. Therefore I used the references to only give me the general idea and shape. Furthermore, I seldomly find a reference picture which would contain "a perfect pose" from where I could say: " That's just the pose I want". Perhaps surprisingly the back viewing pose of her drawing the gun from the holster was the most problematic one. It was... difficult.
The sitting pose is one of my own favorites here. It could really be described with a one word: "WHAT?" What comes to the sitting stance itself, it is masculine but almost all these poses are. She is after all a professional soldier and officer and therefore I just couldn't fit any curvy, dainty or very feminine poses to her. (Those I can practice with Dinah.
Very widely spread legs when sitting is commonly attached to men and masculinity (if we are not talking about a certain ...eh... adult entertainment business). You are right that commonly seen illustrations of female sitting poses are almost exclusively more slender, curvy and dainty. So this time I am the rebel (even if I am the empires man).
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Good to know I'm forgiven
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THAT busy at work? Well, it is a good thing that there are still enough work to be done but let's hope you will get some breathers too.
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Yeah, I'll get my breather eventually. Next year perhaps 
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