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DevilsAlly In reply to SAJ-Man [2016-10-27 08:39:00 +0000 UTC]

First of all thank you for comment!

And since I'll write quite a lot I apologize for grammar

By the level of danger, coolness and scaring appearance (the first time I saw Black Doom I thought he actually has half-body torn off...) for me Black Doom is in a line with Mephiles. Both of them are kind of villains only for one game, but still people remember them. Personally I like this type of villains more than, for example, Deadly six from SLW, they look too childish...

As character Black Doom is typical villain, which has no feelings to his creation - Shadow until he is not useful. In this relation to "offspring" he is similar to Wizeman from Nights games. Although it seems that Black Doom cares about any small creatures in his Black comet, and uses the "unblooded" Shadow only as a weapon in order to develop their race.

It's also interesting how in Archie comics showed "family" relationship between black arms (on Eclipse in particular), perhaps this I lacked in Black Doom's motivation. And in Archie the survivors black arms evoke sympathy and hope that they still survive, while in Shadow game they were defeated and forgotten.

Anyway I feel positive about Black Doom, his presence in biography of Shadow for my taste gives a special spice 

Once again, sorry for the many words 

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SAJ-Man In reply to DevilsAlly [2016-10-29 00:40:19 +0000 UTC]

Hey, no prob! ^.^

No need to apologize, I like reading and I appreciate a detailed answer to my questions. So thank you!

I agree with you on this. As far as visuals, he is quite unique among the other Sonic villains. Interesting part about him looking torn in half. Did you notice that both Black Doom and Mephiles look like their missing body parts? (Black Doom's lower half and Mephiles' mouth and nose in his crystalline form) I also think that they are one game villains done more or less right. The Deadly Six were definitely one game villains done wrong. They were quite disappointing to me, visually and in every other regard.

He is a typical villain, "let's conquer the world... because reasons! Yeah!" XDDDD I have noticed the relationship between Black Doom and Wizeman, visually and personality wise, they're almost the same. I always thought of Black Doom's "care" for his Black Arms was more about himself. The Black Arms are his possessions and Shadow is a part of those possessions. One of his many disposable things are destroying his possessions. It's like being flipped off by someone stealing stuff out of your house. But that's just what I thought.
I like how you said he uses Shadow as a weapon. Because Gerald AND Black Doom AND the military only view Shadow as a weapon and they all are destroyed (physically or figuratively) because they fail to see Shadow is more than just a weapon.

As far as the Archie comics go, I don't go near them. Can't stand the comics for anything. They make me cringe. XDDDDD But I'm glad they went a little deeper into the Black Arms thing.

I like Black Doom as a villain, his visuals are diverse and interesting, his involvement in Shadow's back story is a little... convoluted, but some slight tweaking could help that make more sense. I appreciate how SEGA tried to deviate from the norm with him.

And once again, no need to apologize, thank you for a detailed answer! I just have one last question for you though: What would make Black Doom a better character, in your opinion? ^^

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DevilsAlly In reply to SAJ-Man [2016-11-01 11:03:35 +0000 UTC]

It’s nice to talk with interested person ^^ So I wrote another text sheet XD

For me one of the reasons why Black Doom lacks as a character – it’s not completely clear for what he wants to conquer the universe – for his race he cares about, or for his own ambitions. And it seems to me that for thousands years of life he could come up with the meaning of life more rational than just "ruler of the universe"... >.>

(but if he cared about Black Arms he would’ve made them smarter so they were at least able to distinguish friend from foe in Shadow XDD) So it looks like the only one who has intelligence in Black Arms is Black Doom. He hadn’t substituents because of his arrogance or because of... the nature of their psycho-organic connection with each other or something… space for thinking and conjecturing

I think they could give him more than just a philosophy of "taking the planet for food and resources". And more than his disinterest in Shadow: “Bring me the emeralds – I'll tell you about past” After this he really thought Shadow will obey him? Even when he incites Shadow against people it’s hastily considered that Shadow will be on his side. Maybe he didn't realize on time that Shadow is not "connected" to him like other Arms and he hasn’t full control over them.

Shadow had mutual distrust and hostility, of course, he went against Doom. Anyway after the destruction of all the race of  first met aliens  no one feels compassion, except Shadow maybe, while he's last of a kind.

Also it’s easy to assume that for thousands of years of existence and conquest of planets somewhere existed Black Arms’ base or remains of troops who control those planets. (Or at least their backup "server" of the Comet XD)

Actually, a similar turn of events is shown in the Archie comics. Actually, I could not stand Archie until recently, but still due to Shadow I only read chapters with him XDD (especially after reboot comic become more canonic)
So, there are secondary hive-mind of Black Doom with his analog of Shadow (Eclipse the hedge... the Darkling XD) these two have living dialogues like a naughty son and hortative daddy. And they are really interested in their race (and in revenge for Black Doom at the same time). They even breed Arms and wisps to make stronger soldiers (sounds strange...) During the final battle they put pressure on Shadow blaming for condemn them to complete extinction.

What I like about this comic it’s interaction between Arms and more interesting background details.

And returning to game canon, yet it’s not clear why with their techno-organic technology they built temples (Glyphic Canyon). Also their ancient origin hinted at decorations of Black Doom. Such artifacts make impression that Black Arms ancient but high-tech race. Is it possible they have Chaos cult like echidnas had? Arms are probably the most understanding in chaos, and have innate ability to use it…

I again plunged into a lengthy discourse without any conclusions, sorry XD I'll be glad if you found in it something interesting  

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SAJ-Man In reply to DevilsAlly [2016-11-01 21:44:47 +0000 UTC]

XDDDD That's totally fine, buddy!

So you mean his motivations and ambitions are unclear and unfocused? That's fair. We don't really know why he wants to take over the universe. We know why he wants to destroy Sonic's world, to feed his army (or whatever whatever Chaos Emeralds whatever? XDDDD) I agree that since he's been around so long, he could have a reason (not necessarily a GOOD reason, but a reason of some kind) to want to rule the universe.

Interesting point about the Black Arms not being intelligent. My theory is, maybe he CAN'T make them intelligent. Maybe, as powerful as he claims to be, he couldn't make anything but single minded, barbaric monsters. Which is why a joint creation of Black Doom and Gerald Robotnik AKA Shadow the Hedgehog IS intelligent. Because by himself, Black Doom is incapable of making intelligent beings.

I do agree with you, Shadow is Black Doom's ONLY intelligent offspring, he should have definitely been more interested in him, beyond "get the Chaos Emeralds and I'll tell you your past, only not really, I'll destroy you when this is all over". Maybe he never realized that Shadow was immune to certain things the other Black Arms aren't because Gerald never told him HOW he gave Shadow sentience. Maybe, Gerald purposefully put things in Shadow to help him resist Black Doom's power. As far as using the planet for food, that's fine with me, but I want to know the end game. What will be the achievement of Black Doom's goals? What's he aiming for really? (oops, there goes that unclear goals problem again XDDDD)

People really should have had more of a reaction and a lasting damage from a FREAKING ALIEN INVASION THAT ALMOST WORKED! THEY BLEW UP AN ENTIRE CITY FOR PETE'S SAKE! Why does no one follow this up, Sonic and friends, and the world at large? No one has anything to say about the sky opening up, turning red and black, and a world wide attack on all people? No one has suffered from nightmares, no one has gone to counseling, no one is trying to unite nations in an attempt to make sure this doesn't happen again, no one has made a documentary about it, NOTHING?? Really? That... that just bothers me. My gosh.

And I guess in the game, we are told without being told that the Black Comet is essentially the base of the Black Arms. Like period. They don't have a home planet, they don't have colonies on their previously conquered planets, there is no other Black Arms alien anywhere in the universe, but on the Black Comet. And Shadow blew it up. Soooo... I'm thinking that's another plot hole. XDDDD

I have personal problems with the Archie Comics, but I have seen SOME stuff about Eclipse the Edgehog---Imean Darkling, and the Black Arms effects on the characters. I appreciate any background details on any part of the Sonic canon that doesn't sound like a badly written fan fic. XDDDD

Yeah, it is a bit unclear where they are as far as technological advancement. I know their weapons and stuff are high tech, but the temples seem to be fairly low tech. Um, I guess to highlight the time gap between when they first arrived on the planet to current time? I guess they advanced their technology in 4000 years, which is good for any civilization to do. But again, the Black Arms aren't intelligent beings and Black Doom doesn't seem smart enough to develop technology like that on his own. Perhaps they had slaves on other planets make them weapons?? But how, if all the Black Arms are on the Black Comet? Did they just blow up the planets after they got technologically advanced weaponry? Then that would mean Black Doom doesn't want to rule the universe, he wants to destroy it, right?? And... wait, there's that unclear goals problem again. Okay I'm done. XDDDDDD

Chaos cult? You mean do they worship Chaos Emeralds and stuff like the Echidnas did? I don't know, I would think Black Doom would be the one who was worshipped, I don't think he is the type to bow to anyone else. He would be "the god" in his mind, and since the Black Arms aren't sentient, they just go along with him, puffing up his ego even more! XDDDD Maybe the conquered planets of the Black Arms saw him as a god and made him jewelry and robes in exchange for their lives or something, but we run into the same problem as the paragraph above this one. XDDDD

As far as being able to USE Chaos Energy, mmmmmm no. I don't think the Black Arms have an "innate ability for Chaos Control" None of the Black Arms soldiers ever showed any Chaos powers, except Shadow, but he was made by Gerald, not just Black Doom so there's reason to believe that Shadow has the Professor to thank for his Chaos powers. Also, Biolizard could use Chaos powers and he was made without Black Doom's DNA, sooooo...

Now Black Doom CAN use Chaos Control, but only with all the Chaos Emeralds. Anybody can harness Chaos Energy from the Chaos Emeralds because they're literally overflowing with energy. The real test is if you can use Chaos control with one or none of the emeralds. And Black Doom hasn't shown an ability to do that. Now as far as Devil Doom, his super form, that could be used to say he has Chaos energy power, but an innate ability? Hmmmmmm... I don't know, maybe just him, but definitely not for the other Black Arms.

And again, I certainly did find a few interesting things! So thank you! XDDDD

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DevilsAlly In reply to i-like-it-a-lot [2016-09-24 14:17:15 +0000 UTC]

thank you! ^^

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