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Dragonthunders — Redesing of TFIW: Toraton

Published: 2016-07-11 03:53:22 +0000 UTC; Views: 11968; Favourites: 181; Downloads: 22
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Description Everyone in speculative evolution knows what is the Toraton a derived descendant of current turtles, which with the disappearance of most of the current megafauna, they were one of several animals which have taken that place, mainly as large herbivores in the swamps of the future earth. These are twice as tall as an elephant, and in weight, are showed to be the heaviest land animals that ever existed are, weighing 120 tons.

I must say that some parts of the desing for this animal are somewhat plausible, as the upstanding legs and lived in a swamp which gives a good food supply, however, some things are probably not reasonable like why its weight is so huge, why have a segmented carapace or how a turtle has been able to evolve to this type of niche. Do not get me wrong, turtles have shown a great ability to take certain niches and become part of the megafauna, however, something like Toraton seems that would emerge in environments where they were the only creatures in the world as a terraformed planet, since they are quite conservative and have not submitted a large morphological change in the last 200 million years, plus other types of vertebrates like lizards, little mammals or something else could take such niches in a short time (because there is not explanatio about if happened a new mass extinction event in the others 195 million years). Perhaps is the lack of explanation about its evolution or the events that led to its evolutinary path.

This Toraton that I call Barochelys (for the friends Stan), is a giant semi-aquatic turtle species that live in 80 to 100 million years in the future. The climate during this age is quite tropical, there is not more polar caps, so there are even tropical forests at the poles, however, the eath is dominated by a new class of vertebrates that took place in most of the continets, and the Toraton is just a strangeness between others animals. This species resembles the extinct softshell turtles, which lack a bony carapace. It has a length of about 4 meters long, it reaches a height of 3 meters and weighs about 3 tons, it spend some time mobilizing around the swamps, devouring the treetops, always in groups of several individuals.

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Edit: Length change to a reasonable size and removal of the rounded and inflated shape of the plastron, also this is now part of the redesign of the Bengal Swamp fauna.
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Comments: 56

Noname9392 [2020-11-01 15:47:16 +0000 UTC]

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ShimmeringCosmos [2019-05-13 17:07:50 +0000 UTC]

The Toraton was actually the descendant of tortoises.

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TheWatcherofWorlds [2017-10-06 14:05:27 +0000 UTC]

So its still possible?

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Dragonthunders In reply to TheWatcherofWorlds [2017-10-06 20:38:20 +0000 UTC]

In a way, yeah

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TheWatcherofWorlds In reply to Dragonthunders [2017-10-07 02:52:11 +0000 UTC]

Alright extinction event here I come...

Would a global warming scenario work to get rid of some mammals?

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TyrannosaurusRex-123 [2017-03-02 17:19:09 +0000 UTC]

I wonder what would the terrestial octopus look like then?

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Trendorman [2016-09-27 02:21:07 +0000 UTC]

Yeah Something always seemed off about the future is wild...


This is much more realistic ALSO, Like Mammals could go extinct...


you know besides like the world blowing up

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WatcherInThePuddle [2016-07-12 22:37:20 +0000 UTC]

It reminds me of a reptilian elephant seal.

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Dragonthunders In reply to WatcherInThePuddle [2016-07-12 22:54:02 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, and with the size more

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-04 20:39:19 +0000 UTC]

Now this is interesting

You think there could be a reptilian predator in the future of 100 million years that resembples maybe a theropod dinosaur?

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-04 20:56:04 +0000 UTC]

Thanks.
Well, that would depends about how life would evolve, and circumstances, without something specific is a rather vague question to respond or to ensure.

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-04 21:09:28 +0000 UTC]

It was just a thought

In your opinion, in your version of TFIW, would the niche for large reptilian land predators be open if there aren't any mammal predators around at that time?

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-04 21:30:38 +0000 UTC]

There will be a good amount of predatory reptiles groups throughout the project, even with the existence of mammalian predators at its side.

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-05 23:31:28 +0000 UTC]

I just thought I could give you a little idea of mine as inspiration 

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-06 00:25:47 +0000 UTC]

Sure

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-06 01:08:22 +0000 UTC]

Umm, I think there's a mix up here

When I said my future theropod-like descendant of monitors could be an idea that you could try out for your project, and when you said sure, I thought that meant you might

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-06 01:35:10 +0000 UTC]

Oh, okay, I understand...

Honestly I feel that are not going to happen, monitors will have a big role in my project but they will not evolve into theropodal forms.
Is okay that you do it for your own projects or concepts, but, not for me.

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-06 16:29:45 +0000 UTC]

Okay, thanks for listening

Also, another thought just came up, could it be possible that a bird in the future could lose its feathers if the environmental conditions allowed it to not need them anymore?

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-06 18:06:22 +0000 UTC]

I dont think that really would happen looking that they always deal with different environmental conditions, maybe for size in a specific part of the body like the neck or legs but not for anything else.

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-06 00:44:50 +0000 UTC]

You mean you'll give it a try?

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-06 01:04:29 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, but what do you mean?

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-04 21:33:21 +0000 UTC]

what kind of predatory reptiles do you have in mind for this project?

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Dragonthunders In reply to codylake [2016-08-04 21:35:21 +0000 UTC]

I want to keep that in secret

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codylake In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-08-05 21:08:40 +0000 UTC]

Okay

As for that reptilian predator of mine that I mentioned, I was thinking maybe something like a monitor lizard could adapt to walk and even run on it's hind legs and become something like a theropod if given the right conditions.

what do you think?

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Leggurm [2016-07-12 03:32:23 +0000 UTC]

This is exactly how I imagined my entry to the Nea contest leggurm.deviantart.com/art/Nea… only smaller.

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Dragonthunders In reply to Leggurm [2016-07-12 15:26:14 +0000 UTC]

It remides me more to the Antheos tortoise from neocene
www.sivatherium.narod.ru/image…

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Leggurm In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-13 01:11:15 +0000 UTC]

Oh yeah.

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InkGink [2016-07-12 02:30:30 +0000 UTC]

Great work!

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Dragonthunders In reply to InkGink [2016-07-12 15:26:23 +0000 UTC]

Thanks 

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InkGink In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-12 23:54:28 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome!

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malevouvenator [2016-07-12 00:57:16 +0000 UTC]

Creo que ya te lo dije colega, pero esta version me gusta muchisimo mas que la de la serie!

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Dragonthunders In reply to malevouvenator [2016-07-12 15:26:36 +0000 UTC]

Muchas gracias compa

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PeteriDish [2016-07-11 18:44:37 +0000 UTC]

it doesn't look like it could support its weight on such legs... i feel especially the hindlegs should be much straighter.

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Dragonthunders In reply to PeteriDish [2016-07-11 19:09:38 +0000 UTC]

The weight is concentrated mainly in the modified plastron, it moves more or less crawling, although it is able to acquire a semi-erect posture.

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PeteriDish In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-11 20:35:58 +0000 UTC]

sorry, this probably won't feel nice to read, but I feel like I should share it with you anyway. an expressed dislike is just pointless hating when not explained in depth.

even though i really liked most of the concepts you came up with in the past, i am really not fan of the design at all, it doesn't look like a viable animal to me. It appears you wanted to create a more rational version of the torraton, but you've created something that is far crazier in comparison. you should have taken a better look at real turtles. The plastron is always the flat part of the shell and I think I can rationalize why it has been so and why it is not possible for a pot-bellied turtle to exist at all, even in the future. if there ever was a giant turtle that would support its weight on the belly, it would still have a flat plastron and all the vlume of the body would be achieved through a tall domed carapace.

this would spread its weight over a larger area, putting less strain on the animal's skeleton.

the animal would push itself along with its legs, just like modern sea turtles do on land and it could actually rest on a flat plastron, unlike your "spinning top" version, which would need to support itself with muscle power at all times or else it would roll over to its side or even completely upside down, and it would probably dislocate or break its legs in the process and could not right itself. To be honest, the hindlegs already look dislocated in your drawing.
(living turtles probably can't right themselves either, but at least they are at a much lower risk of it happening than your concept). 

Also tell me, how would a male with a "potbelly" plastron climb onto the female for mating? biggest cockblock there could ever be. yeah, a long shaft would solve this but 1) it would have to be REALLY fricking long and 2) it's absolutely unnecessary to complicate an already complicated mating process of turtles with an unnecessary and absolutely out of place shape of the shell. another nail to the coffin of this concept. deeply convex plastron is much less viable than a turtle losing its shell so it can grow larger.

maybe a split shell was not the best visualisation of the idea, but I don't think it would be too far-fetched to see giant tortoises that convergently evolved to look more like pareiasaurs, maybe still keeping the plastron intact, but losing the carapace plates on the top, substituting them with pebbly osteoderms instead.

I agree torraton from tfiw was huge, but at least it had a more or less believable shape for its size. despite being more "realistic" and "turtle-ish" than the bbc version, your animal still doesn't have a believable shape for its size. it's much smaller than the original, yet it feels absolutely unviable imho. maybe it just goes to show that tortoises could never get this big in the real world. I feel like fully aquatic turtles could surpass even archelon given the right circumstances though, large bodies are easier to support in water rather than on land.

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Dragonthunders In reply to PeteriDish [2016-07-11 20:54:29 +0000 UTC]

Well, I must say I am very grateful for the comment, I was waiting for someone who managed to mark some of the morphologic errors that could suffer this animal, so I'm glad you've taken the time to make these descriptions

I guess I would change it the concept again.

Also tell me, how would a male with a "potbelly" plastron climb onto the female for mating? biggest cockblock there could ever be. yeah, a long shaft would solve this but 1) it would have to be REALLY fricking long and 2) it's absolutely unnecessary to complicate an already complicated mating process of turtles with an unnecessary and absolutely out of place shape of the shell. another nail to the coffin of this concept. deeply convex plastron is much less viable than a turtle losing its shell so it can grow larger.
IIRC the future is will Toraton have the same problem and they did a thing to solve it, they changed that kind of copulation because Toraton was too heavy so they mate back to back, I think it could solve the problem of the plastron, but again, Im not sure about if that is possible
maybe a split shell was not the best visualisation of the idea, but I don't think it would be too far-fetched to see giant tortoises that convergently evolved to look more like pareiasaurs, maybe still keeping the plastron intact, but losing the carapace plates on the top, substituting them with pebbly osteoderms instead.Honestly I didn't use a tortoise descendant in this case, I used a group apart came from turtles which convergently they evolved with softshell turtles.

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PeteriDish In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-11 21:27:35 +0000 UTC]

i know this is not supposed to be a tortoise, i was just talking about ways of making the original torraton more plausible than the split shell version (which I wasn't a huge fan of either)

back to back mating... bugs do it so it must work on the other hand, I think a turtle/tortoise that is too big to mate the "usual" way is too big to exist, but that may just be my personal bias...but if you think about it, sauropods probably mated like any other animal, the females had strengthened hips to support the weight of the male, so i think a sauropod-sized turtle (with reduced shell) should technically still be able to mate the usual way too, given it's got the right body shape.

honestly, I don't think tortoises could get much bigger than testudo atlas, much larger than that and I think the animal would start having structural integrity problems unless it had undergone a major change in body shape...

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Dragonthunders In reply to PeteriDish [2016-07-11 21:41:14 +0000 UTC]

That's true.

Well, I'll make the necessary editions, including a length reduction to have something relatively close to the largest land testudines that have existed.

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PeteriDish In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-11 22:10:50 +0000 UTC]

to me this new version looks far better

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Dragonthunders In reply to PeteriDish [2016-07-11 22:17:09 +0000 UTC]

Thank you

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slothChija [2016-07-11 18:10:46 +0000 UTC]

I love how the plastron makes it look like has a potbelly, its so cute!

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Dragonthunders In reply to slothChija [2016-07-11 19:11:31 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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bhut [2016-07-11 16:40:26 +0000 UTC]

Your depiction is very interesting. Thanks for posting.

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Dragonthunders In reply to bhut [2016-07-11 17:44:42 +0000 UTC]

Thank you

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bhut In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-11 20:42:58 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome.

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JonaGold2000 [2016-07-11 09:40:42 +0000 UTC]

What about the legs? Shouldn't they be under the body?

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Dragonthunders In reply to JonaGold2000 [2016-07-11 15:17:21 +0000 UTC]

The idea is to be as similarly as possible to a turtle, because most have not changed structurally in the last 200 million years, for that the legs are so.
These have a semi-erect posture in a way as tortoises.

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JonaGold2000 In reply to Dragonthunders [2016-07-11 15:34:01 +0000 UTC]

Oh, alrighty then.

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Zgerken [2016-07-11 08:49:21 +0000 UTC]

Love to see it in its natural environment!

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Dragonthunders In reply to Zgerken [2016-07-11 15:03:04 +0000 UTC]

Probably yes, probably no, who knows

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