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Mavrickindigo In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 17:01:42 +0000 UTC]

It's really simple. The old universe had the same restrictions, yet the continuity said that sonic had kids, family, and echidnas.

In this new continuity, the problematic elemtns no longer exist, so they don't have to waste page space explaining why things they can't talk about aren't there anymore and the creatives can focus on telling stories they CAN tell.

Mega Drive is pretty good, and that has a "young" (classic) sonic.

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glitcher In reply to Mavrickindigo [2016-10-17 17:05:11 +0000 UTC]

That's stupid logic. That's like saying "You can't accomplish anything with one hand tied behind your back, so the solution is to chop off your hands. Problem solved!"

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Mavrickindigo In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 17:07:32 +0000 UTC]

As someone who read the comic since its inception, I can tell you that the stuff happening after the reboot has me more engaged than the stuff that happened in the years leading up to the reboot. There's no way the comic could have gone forward the way it was with all of Penders' concepts legally removed from their ability to use them. The story cannot be told in a legal capacity in the way they wanted to tell it, and slogging through Endangered species was just terrible.

Now, though, they are building up new lore that they can freely use without fear of having it pulled out from under them.

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glitcher In reply to Mavrickindigo [2016-10-17 17:14:51 +0000 UTC]

You're arguing from a legal standpoint, not a narrative standpoint. The fact of the matter is that the old continuity had a far more expansive history, contributed by a host of writers that developed the mythos and culture of Mobius. Archie had a richer world in which to tell an engaging story, but that potential has been severely limited by new rules and mandates. Are you surprised that so many fans are attached to the earlier comics? Are you surprised that Archie's sales have plunged after the reboot? Why are you even part of Archie Sonic Online if your real interest lies with the current continuity?

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Mavrickindigo In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 17:31:47 +0000 UTC]

Here are a few things.

1.) I'm talking about the official comics, yes. Legal and narrative go hand in hand in that case, since they are officially licensed products. SEGA pays them to make an advertisement for their franchise. Fancomics can do whatever the heck they want. I'm a part of ASO because I like the characters and the world of the original continuity, yes, but I recognize that officially, we'll never see any of that stuff again, because its as coherent as Robotnik Prime's molecules now.

2.) The current comics are like, what, three years old? It took the original continuity about that long to even start hinting at a storyline. Heck, the comic basically forgot about Uncle chuck until around issue 30-31, and the current continuity has done nothing but world building (aside from Worlds Unite) since it started. In terms of what has more comparatively speaking, the new continuity now has most of the games as part of the backstory and lore as well as all the stuff they added since the Shattered World Crisis began. Compare that to the original continuity, which had the backstory of SatAM, a smattering of game things from Sonic 1 2 and 3, but without any of the substance from any of them, and 2-ish years worth of gag/robot of the month stories.

So, of course a continuity that has been around for 20 years is going to have much more stuff to draw upon than something that's only existed for a fraction of the time its there. It doesn't mean the new thing is lesser because of it, it just hasn't gotten to the point where it compares to what we had. And what we had is something we can legally never have again. It doesn't make what we have now bad, though. Because what we have now has new and different things that are interesting, but different.

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glitcher In reply to Mavrickindigo [2016-10-17 17:56:19 +0000 UTC]

The current continuity is only three years old, but it's still painfully underdeveloped in comparison to the first three years of the old continuity. I've complained about this several times in my comic reviews where the story never takes any dramatic chances or steps outside the kid-friendly tone of Sega's games. Archie lauds exposition over narrative structure, convinced that cramming in as many characters as possible is the key to a great story. And those characters aren't fully developed either. We get weak arcs like an insubstantial backstory for Nicole, a plothole-ridden quest for Silver, an agonizing villain exhibition for Eggman, and worst of all: one goddamn emerald hunt that has lasted for three years! This restricts the comics to the same protracted routine instead of refreshing them with new and unique stories.

The early issues of the old continuity always brought something new to the table from several different writers who weren't constrained by some scavenger hunt that has outlived its welcome. Since Sega had little oversight back then, things were looser and writers were able to develop "a world unique and beyond what you know from the Sega games" - as stated in the intro page. That time is gone. You argue that the new continuity is focused on world-building, but that world-building has been weak, shallow and uninteresting. I'm not sure why you still vouch for it with so many obstacles in place. Here's a logical problem: Is it possible to develop a more interesting story with or without editorial restrictions?

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ZentrixStudios In reply to glitcher [2016-10-18 00:08:47 +0000 UTC]

So in other words... you actually don't truly enjoy the reboot, but act like you do, because there's apparently no going back. That's pretty much what your comment just came out as, but for some reason you had more complaints and ill-thinking towards the reboot, but when you try to summarize 20 years of everything prior to corporate control. You give only a paragraph and not even scratched the surface of what really went down inside the comics up until the reboot.

What actually made the comics sell, and earn the spot of being in the Guinness Book of World Records was not because it was a comic based off a game. It was the fact the comics even lasted as long as they did. It was because it was it's own identity, and one that anybody could potentially enjoy. sales were very very high back in the days when Penders, Bollers, and a good part of Flynn we're at the helm of the book pre-reboot time-frame.

Your logic while sound. Really doesn't hold a candle, when all you can do is only say certain aspects of the re-boot, but completely amiss the more key things that affect the re-boots survival... sales wise.

There's lack of life or anything wholesome. There's no sense of true character, and where practically everyone that has a plot to each issue is shallow in presentation and loosing the reader the ability to relate with those characters. Practically all other franchises outside of the current Sonic, have stories that expand out into it's own identity, but still feel like the source material at it's core.

Archie Sonic in it's current state. While adds things to spice up the running plot tied to the game and world it's rules run off of. This type of structure and form the comics are taking is only going to put the main series six feet under. There's a simple thing called profit, and at this point with how the comics are going... That's going to be very little soon. I mean, when reading issue# 285. I was flabbergasted at how little the issue even focused on a character who (judging by Tails face) had essentially died. Nicole was completely destroyed, and the whole room was in nothing but sorrow for a lost member, but... Hey, she wasn't dead or even close to being that after all... in just a turn of the page. Wow... That's such a gut to the chest, and really a piss poor excuse for a plot device. Yaay "shock-value" a page turn later, and... psych just kidding. Yeah... And I'm only kidding that seeing the amount of high detail in the art, in the panel of a completely fried flip computer... didn't get me at all...

Honestly that was a dick move and if the resolve was the next page, then why even bother adding it in the first place. It's this kind of repetitive sequence that re-boot has seemed to adopt on an almost issue per issue basis that makes me question... Is there any effort being truly put into the book anymore.

Like Ian said in a BumbleKast once:

"It's just 25 to 34 pages, featuring a cartoon character for a long running franchise."

Yeah... Took the words right out of my mouth there Flynn. Doesn't mean it's good pages though. 

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glitcher In reply to ZentrixStudios [2016-10-18 19:50:14 +0000 UTC]

Uh.... was that comment really meant for me? I never said I enjoyed the reboot. I think you're replying to the wrong person.

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ZentrixStudios In reply to glitcher [2016-10-18 23:57:20 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, trust me that wasn't towards you man. Sorry for the confusion.

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teamrandom21 In reply to glitcher [2016-10-18 23:35:40 +0000 UTC]

That reply was more towards marverick moron and his wonderful logic. Was there when zack typed it out

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Mavrickindigo In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 18:13:58 +0000 UTC]

I have to scratch my head at your idea that the old writers did more in the first few years of the comics. Three years, you say? If we don't count the original miniseries, this is what we got:

Sonic and the freedom fighters live in a hole in the ground where they fight the Evil Dr. Robotnik, who has taken over the world, but not really. Robotnik throws a ton of robots at them. There is an underground society of Nerbs, which are never referenced again until the dying days of the continuity. The cosmic interstate gets established, which basically is how the multiverse works. We get Knuckles, but nothing from the games on the Echidna's past, including the stuff from Hidden Palace. We find out Robotnik's first creation was a king kong parody that's never referenced again. Sonic and Sally not marry a few times. THere's the introduction of aliens with Carheem of Wheet. Robotnik dies and comes back from an alternate future where Sonic is king. Evil Dopplegangers from an alternate universe. Uncle Chuck becomes himself again. Sonic meets the Ancient Walkers, and they confront the King in the Zone of Silence and there's a sprinkling of echidna lore.

Now in the reboot:

We almost immediately establish that almost every game in the sonic fanchise has happened in the past, with the exception of a few. We find out about Dark Gaia and discover an entire civilization of underwater mobians that no one knew about. We find out about a major media empire that exists in this universe run by someone who once tricked Sonic. There's a planetoid floating around the world with an alien species known as the zeti that's up there. We got the introduction of Lupe, Dulcy, the concept of the four great civilizations, the Wisps, The black arms, the events that led to Gemerl's creation, a mystery involving the nature of the master emerald, an entire troll civilization., all sorts of stuff.

While a lot of things were indeed introduced in the early comics, they didn't really have a bearing in the story until much later. Only a few of the things actually mattered in the near future of the comic. The stuff we're getting in the current continuity, however, is much more relevant to what's happening and builds up the world without a lot of "filler" stories. Though yes, shattered world has outstayed its welcome and Worlds Unite sucks. The old continuity, at this point, was still a bunch of people throwing ideas at a wall to see what sticks. The current continuity builds things up as it tells its story, building the world more naturally, I feel.

Don't get me wrong, I love the old continuity, but the reason I love it is because there's so many frays and loose ends to patch up that a writer has a lot of stuff to explore without having to resort to making new stuff up.

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glitcher In reply to Mavrickindigo [2016-10-18 19:44:58 +0000 UTC]

Writers tossing out ideas in early issues of the series is exactly what made it so interesting. You have to remember that when the comic first started, Sonic 2 had just been released. There weren't enough games available upon which to base relevant stories, so the writers had to devise new material. The concept of "a bunch of people throwing ideas at a wall to see what sticks" is no different than "What a Cartoon!" in the 90's. That was a show that introduced a plethora of cartoons from fresh new writers who had original ideas, and some of those cartoons went on to become popular franchises like Johnny Bravo, The Powerpuff Girls, Dexter's Lab, Family Guy and more. They were breaking new ground by taking chances on unconventional concepts, and the same is true for some of the crazy ideas in Sonic's early issues. True, it wasn't all Shakespeare, but if it weren't for creative writers, we wouldn't have the universe-bending alternate dimensions, the extended family relations, and of course, the rich history of the echidna society. Can you imagine that sort of thing now when Archie are strictly sticking to the established format of the games? My point is that the writers back then were pioneers, while the writers now are conformists. Do you see the difference?

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Mavrickindigo In reply to glitcher [2016-10-18 20:23:01 +0000 UTC]

"What a Cartoon" was a collection of pilots to gauge the interest of viewers for the purposes of picking them up for syndication. I wouldn't compare them 1:1 with an already serialized piece. Even with Sonic 2, there is lore to be had. Granted, no one in the west really KNEW about that lore until well after it didn't matter for the old continuity.

I concede that we do not have universe-bending Alternate dimensions, but then again, the comic is now concerned with making working planet. It seems to want to get into the universe beyond, with Sonic Lost World coming up, but I do doubt we'll see alternate realities, other than Blaze's World, again.

For extended family relations, that isn't always a good thing. Does it really matter that we knew what Knuckles great great great grandfather's name was? No, not really. We probably didn't know much about what he did, aside from stand around and be another one of the "cabal of secret grandpas." What family we do have is interesting. We have Bunnie, who doesn't know who here parents are or where she comes from. Certainly, Ian plans on revealin gthat in the future. We have Dr. Ellidy, who created Nicole in order to try to bring his daughter back to life. We have Tundra Walrus, who has a very traditional warrior mindset and provides Rotor with an interesting dillemna. Heck, we still have Uncle Chuck, which is technically extended from the point the games have. Sonic doesn't even have an Uncle there.

And the rich echidna history. Where you say rich, others may say "overexplained." The Echidnas now are mysterious like they are in the games. Their ancient great civilization can be used to fuel stories and mysteries to come. When Ian tried to add mystery to Echidna history, he had to back up farther than what Penders had already established, because Penders' stuff was packed with the details of what happend from the moment Echidnaopolis flew into the sky to the point where it returned from the Twilight cage.

I can see Archie expanding on a lot of things. Heck, I really like Breezie's Media empire and the way Archie explored how people reacted to the world being split apart. That was done much better than in the game itself.

I have nothing against the old continuity, but I don't hate the new one because it can't do the same thing sthe old one did. Why retread the same kind of things, anyway? If i want to read a story about Sonic being reunited with his long-lost parents, I can always go back and read the issue where he finds them.

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Julayla-64 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:39:12 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. Had it been me writing this, I would've just started rewriting the old continuity starting at 225. But hey, I already got a reboot of the Sonic Archie series planned, though.

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Mavrickindigo In reply to Julayla-64 [2016-10-17 16:44:07 +0000 UTC]

Check out my gallery to see what my plan would have been, if you are so inclined.

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AmyEWilliams92 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:29:06 +0000 UTC]

This is going to be fun, I can already tell. I still follow the comic out of nostalgia and affection, but I don't get the individual issues as much anymore. I liked the pre-reboot because it was different, its own unique entity not tied down exclusively by the games. I can't wait to see what you'll bring to the table, writing- and art-wise.

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JanikaCheetah In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:26:05 +0000 UTC]

I love the way you went for a pure EPIC style. The constant movement all over the poster is impressive and dynamic, offset by the ready-to-rumble poses of Knuckles and Elias (I am quite surprised he's holding a sword rather than his smaller blades, but it makes sense if it's the Sword of Acorn), and overshadowed by villains near the top. Bunnie and Antoine are a stark contrast to the other protagonists, drawing attention in a sudden way that broke off my initial "This is awesome!" response, turning it to a heartfelt squeak of sympathy.

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glitcher In reply to JanikaCheetah [2016-10-17 16:52:36 +0000 UTC]

Much appreciated for the insightful comment! You make a sharp observation about Elias wielding the Sword of Acorns, but I didn't draw it without good reason. Stay tuned!

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JanikaCheetah In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 16:58:16 +0000 UTC]

As long as there's some good old-fashioned exorcism with Geoffrey and an awesome confrontation between Silver and Mogul, I'm pretty much happy.

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glitcher In reply to JanikaCheetah [2016-10-17 17:01:26 +0000 UTC]

A 'confrontation' between Silver and Mogul? They're not enemies, you know.

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JanikaCheetah In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 18:38:09 +0000 UTC]

Confrontation could mean simply demanding the truth rather than trying to beat the tar out of each other psychically. IMO, they are enemies. Never trust a mammoth.

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glitcher In reply to JanikaCheetah [2016-10-17 18:58:07 +0000 UTC]

That sounds like mammoth racism to me.

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JanikaCheetah In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 19:00:25 +0000 UTC]

No point in denying it, I suppose. Back of the bus, Mogul.

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CindersDesigns In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:25:54 +0000 UTC]

Looks awesome, can't wait to see the comic!

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NitroactiveStudios In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:24:08 +0000 UTC]

Would this comic also reveal what had happened to Hershey the Cat/St. John?

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glitcher In reply to NitroactiveStudios [2016-10-17 16:40:58 +0000 UTC]

Let's just say I plan on tying up as many loose ends as possible...

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Hedgehog-Night In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:23:52 +0000 UTC]

this cover looks so stunning and.. OMG Elias *-*

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Tigsie In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:22:52 +0000 UTC]

A++++++!

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FrostTheHobidon In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:22:24 +0000 UTC]

this cover looks amazing

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teamrandom21 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:16:21 +0000 UTC]

Amazing man, can't wait

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Strykeforce2005 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:13:48 +0000 UTC]

This looks fantastic!!

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Zanoss10 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:12:32 +0000 UTC]

That's an impressive cover for sure !
About the comic, some arc was good after World collide like "Eclipse" or "Champion" or even "Robotnik dozen" but the other was pretty bad in majority yeah.
I'm still happy that they introduce Honey because she is a character that I love.
I wonder if she is planned too in your fan comic =o  ?
I would love to, she need more love x3

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glitcher In reply to Zanoss10 [2016-10-17 16:44:36 +0000 UTC]

You mean "Eggman's Dozen"? Actually, that was the arc that made me stop reading new issues. I knew immediately that it was just going to be a shallow villain exposition just like the crossovers. I may catch up later, but right now I'm more focused on rereading back issues to substantiate my script.

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Zanoss10 In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 17:09:39 +0000 UTC]

And please tell me that you will consider to add Honey, I love how you drew her in my commission x3

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Zanoss10 In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 16:51:41 +0000 UTC]

Well I actually quite enjoyed it (gotta said I liked the interaction between character but yes it was manly for showed them), but I totally agree on the fact that World Unite was a total shitty arc only for money yeah.
But some previous arc in the old continuity was also bad, so it's something that you can find in both continuity c;
And also, good luck for your comic !  It's not that easy to made one I know that

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conniethehedgecat777 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:01:56 +0000 UTC]

Yes! Finally! I thought I was the only one who misses the old comics and the history! Sure, it was all over the place and reeked of Penders, but it was so complex. I liked the messed up world with its messed up characters and love triangles. It was so laughable bad; it was entertaining. I can't wait to see what you have in store.

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glitcher In reply to conniethehedgecat777 [2016-10-17 16:48:42 +0000 UTC]

The old continuity had its fair share of melodrama, but I'd gladly take melodrama over the dramatic vacuum in the current continuity. The driving force behind this webcomic is to restore a sense of heart to the series.

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conniethehedgecat777 In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 18:19:34 +0000 UTC]

Again, you are awesome. If your writing is as good as your art, we are in for a real treat. ^^

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MZimmer1985 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 16:01:03 +0000 UTC]

I still have hope for the Sonic games, even though Sega hasn't done well with the comics.

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SonicWindAttack In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 15:58:33 +0000 UTC]

Looks good, man!  It's good to see people are taking their own approach to the comic outside ASO as well.  Looking forward to seeing what you put out!

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DeLionheartDrawz In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 15:57:46 +0000 UTC]

It's fantastic! You did a good good with this cover.

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David-Heath In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 15:57:42 +0000 UTC]

I'm excited!!!!

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Mixedfan8643 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 15:55:55 +0000 UTC]

Glitcher, I think you've just made a million Sonic fans fangasm with delight right now.

I'm so looking forward to seeing this comic unfold as the pages are released weekly.

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glitcher In reply to Mixedfan8643 [2016-10-17 16:50:34 +0000 UTC]

Glad to hear it. I was getting antsy keeping this under wraps for so long. I felt like... like a superhero in hiding.

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Mixedfan8643 In reply to glitcher [2016-10-17 20:03:13 +0000 UTC]

Welcome. And that's a fitting metaphor actually.

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Darkmegafan01 In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 15:54:24 +0000 UTC]

Wow! That's an awesome cover!

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Web-Disaster In reply to ??? [2016-10-17 15:52:47 +0000 UTC]

Yes! Great work! I so want this and I can't wait.

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