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GnomeGod98 β Why it's over powered: Most Flame Throwers
Published: 2014-07-20 14:49:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 1061; Favourites: 22; Downloads: 8
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Description
Hear me out.The flamethrowers I talk about below are the regular flamethrower, the back burner and the rainblower.
The Pyros flamethrowers give him so much advantage over most classes its unreal. According to the to the TF2 official Wiki, the base damage of the flame thrower can max out at 153.5 damage a second. That means that if every single hit lands, the Pyro can kill a lot of classes (Scout, Engineer, Sniper, Spy and Medic) in 1 second. That's pretty ridiculous. Now. Here's something YOU can try. Stand next to an enemy player. aim directly up. Shoot the flame thrower. You will hit him. I only found this out a day or 2 ago. This shows how much range the flame thrower has.Β With that amount of range and damage, it's not hard to quickly take someone out. Not only does the flame thrower do that much damage but it also has afterburn. The afterburn on most flame throwers does 6 damage a second. This lasts for 10 seconds meaning it does a total of 60 damage. That means if the pyro just clips you for a single bit of damage with the flamethrower, you are going to take 60 damage unless you find a medkit or a medic. For a lot of classes, thats around half their health gone. This is made even easier for the Pyro to do as the flamethrower has the airblast. This can screw an enemy up. Mess up their aim, get them stuck somewhere or even hold them in place in the air. This makes it very easy for the Pyro to escape. Not only is it used for escape, it can be used to reflect projectiles. Any projectile. Rockets, Balls, Grenades, everything. Meaning hes even less vulnerable to damage and has more ways of dealing damage to enemies. Reflecting anything will make it minicrit, causing it to do even more damage. It can even extingush friendly teammates from being on fire.
That's a lot of stuf to take in I guess. You might be thinking "Why is this about only those 3 flamethrowers?" Well I honestly think the Phlog and Degreaser are balanced weapons. They each do a reasonable amount of damage. The only thing "OP" about the Phlog is how quick it builds up the Mmmmph meter. Sadly the Degreaser isn't really meant to be used as a flamethrower and more as something you use to light people on fire and finish them off with something else. I still think these are pretty balanced weapons.
Hope people actually read all that instead of "OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP"
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Comments: 41
I think pyro needs a nerf, less after burn damage and power perhaps to 130 dps (at least it's less) or just make pyro just tiniest but slower, because I popped out my festive backburner and played pyro....... So many easy fire kills and reflect kills..... And not to mention that I've lost too many kill streaks to people playing for the first time and found the w button and mouse one as a pyro, like seriously?
and who doesn't hate dieing next to a supply closet because a pyro just so happened to use 1 fuel on you by accident...... Or do I just suck, yeah that's it I suck
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The only thing I really care about is that WHY CAN OTHER PYROS ALWAYS HIT ME FROM LONG RANGE WITH THE FLAMES WHILE I HAVE TO BE RIGHT UP THEIR ASSES?!
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Because
1.
TF2 has the most horrid hitboxes in any game ever...
2.
Lag in TF2 fucks up the hitboxes even more, it's unreal how much it messes up where players positions are.
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Or maybe I just have the worst of luck ever xD
Who knows
Or maybe TF2 is just stoped
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TF2 is a bad game.
It's fun, but it's pretty bad. Just being honest. Balance issues, horrible hitboxes and bajillion kazillion cockdillioin hats compared to the weapons.
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I remember waiting 6 months to come back to TF2
Three new weapons and hundred new hats
Yes
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One of my friend hates pyros in TF2 so much that he thinks the entire class should be removedΒ entirely. If he saw this, it would give him another reason to complain about it.
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OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP
((I completely agree with your statement XD))
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Pyro is supposed to be a class that deals high DPS damage.
Besides, he needs to get upfront close to use the flamethrower, he is balanced.
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I still think the damage the Degreaser does is how much damage the regular flamethrower should do. I never feel like I've been unfairly killed when a Degreaser kills me, with the regular flamethrower I feel that way quite a lot.
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OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP
Nahh, I agree to n extent. lol
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loljk
What do you not agree on?
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OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP
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y hef 2 be so meen
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sorry to say this man, but pyro is not overpowered, i play as heavy and engie allot and i've put out too many flames to count. that's why i even have a pyro counter on my strange minigun. plus ive seen some good gunspies take them out easly
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INeverSaidThePyroWasOverpoweredLel
Seriously though, like I've said in previous comments, yeah the Pyro can be countered by Engineers and Heavies but it's pretty easy to escape a Heavy if theres a place to retreat to, air blast him and run. Whenever I play Pyro, I never find it difficult to escape from a situation that may result in my death.
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so? that just makes u good as pyro. your job is to ambush anyways. plus air blasting never bothered me as a heavy (likely cause almost no pyros got close enough to do so) and scouts can be good against pyros, then again they're easy destroyed by pyros at the same time, meh. plus even as a soldier i do fairly god against pyros thinking they can air blast my shots. even if they do air blast it i always aim my rockets to where it's hard to blast it at me
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So I wanna bring up your argument on the mini sentry real quick.
I used it and I think for a few Nerfs to it maybe make it loose the ability to pick it up, slower gunslinger swing?
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Dunno why you just didn't go on to that picture but hoekay.
To be honest, you very, VERY rarely see an Engineer pick up his Minisentry. I personally just destroy my Minisentry if I want to move up. It's not like it costs a lot of metal. I'll probably find a weapon on the ground a long the way. Also the slower swinging would also be pretty pointless, no one EVER uses the gunslinger as a melee weapon.
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Default Flamethrower:good
Backburner:Fuck off
Rainblower:ruins pyro
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I honestly think the Backburner is extremely stupid. The crits are pretty pointless (Unless done to a Heavy) because if you have taken someone by surprise from behind and you're close enough to them, they're probably gonna die in around the same amount of time. It really does piss me off when I'm trying to run away and the Pyro using the Backburner clips my back and kills me instantly though.
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I can agree with most of your points here but the damage is not as bad as it seems, with the 150+ dps being only at point blank range, and same with the flame being able to hit enemies while pointing straight up.
It is also true that a Pyro's airblast makes him hard for a soldier or demo to hit (soldier IF he doesn't have a shotgun/doesn't know how to use it) but this cannot last for long as the airblast will deplete his ammo very quickly.
Only about half the time I take the full afterburn damage, the rest of the time I find a medic, dispenser or medkit lying around. Even if I have been on fire for the whole afterburn time it's because I got away from the pyro or killed him, as I would be dead from the Pyro himself otherwise.
In general, Pyro with a flamethrower is not very hard to counter unless he is within a very close range of you, and even then the Pyro CANNOT out-damage a Heavy, who can still fire straight when air-blasted.
However, a Pyro that uses not only his flamethrower but ALL of his weapons cleverly? Very hard to counter.
Also, I cannot consider the phlog to be not OP while it still has the ridiculous damage resistance while he taunts. Also I dislike the weapon in general as the lack of airblast discourages any of pyro's support roles (except spy checking), hell it's hard enough to find a pyro who will put me out when I'm on fire already :I
PRO-TIP: As a Pyro, back up while shooting your flamethrower when you fight another Pyro, as you are moving away your flamethrower's flames will actually reach further than the other Pyro's, damaging him while his won't hurt you at all!
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The afterburn is mainly a problem for slower classes (Soldier, Demoman, Heavy) as they may just not be able to reach a medkit or Medic. This kinda brings up another thing. Maybe it's just me but if I'm on fire and have pretty low health, I'm worried that if I rocket jump/sticky jump I might do too much damage to myself and I may burn to death.
Also I think that if the Phlog's Mmmph meter took more damage to build up (Probably around 600 or something, dunno what it currently does) it would be a lot less frowned upon because it would take a good amount of time to work to it. Either that or y'know, remove the resistances.
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Yeah it's true that you can rarely rocket/sticky jump while burning, but remember that the slower classes are also the higher hp classes, making it less likely for afterburn to kill them.
Yeah, as I see it one of the phlog's only possible weaknesses (the time it takes to taunt to refill all your health and give mini-crits) is removed as it's very difficult to kill the taunting Pyro. As you say it is rather easy to fill the meter without putting in much time or work into it. I think in its current state it's quite OP as a w+m1 weapon.
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I play Pyro a lot, and yes, the flamethrower is very powerful, with its surprising range, damage and air blast. As said, the pyro is an opposite to the Sniper as a close range class, meaning the pyro is meant to do a lot of damage at close range, the farther the target however, the less damage the flames do, the after-burn is repetitive to pick them down slowly, but only does 3 damage a tick, they air blast makes they pyro a good support too. Aside from these things, the disadvantage pyro has, is it is relatively weak, only with 175 Health, not as weak as spy or scout, but they have cloaking, speed and disguises, the pyro uses this health pool to sneak to the enemy, deal damage and get out. Hopefully alive. There have been many Anti pyro weapons around too recently, the Charge 'n Targe I have problems with now, Scouts and snipers with Milk and Jarate, the Vaccinator. Oh and another thing with the airblasting, it isn't exactly easy as it looks. Yes, grenades and rockets are useless to their user, big help to the air blaster, but some are not that easy to send back, I struggle with the Liberty Launcher personally, (but Direct Hit? Easy for some reason.), Arrows are a rarity and I sometimes either lose a lot of health or die, liquids handy, but need timing as they seem to hit me while still a meter away. Point being, despite what people say, Pyro DOES take skill, Not W+m1 necessary (but it can be good in some situations, but not all) but air blasting, following the flames, strafing and some airblasting takes timing and practice. While the Pyros Flamethrowers are powerful, they're supposed to for the purpose of pyros needs, he's close range, he's sometimes a stealth class, sometimes support, and TF2 would not be the same without it. Pyro is good in close range, meant for close range, and the flamethrower is his Minigun/Sniper rifle/Rocket launcher/Scattergun.
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I understand all that and I'm not trying to say that Pyro takes no skill or that the Pyro himself is overpowered but it's purely just the amount of damage the flamethrower does is too much in such a short period of time. The Degreaser and Phlog are just as effective with that damage reduction. Afterburn is something nothing else in the game can do (except bleed weapons but most of them are melee weapons and do little damage in the first place and as far as I know, bleeding lasts for half the time or something.)
I don't think any of his abilities (airblast and such) should be removed either, it's just that combined with the flamethrower damage that gives him so many ways to get around things.
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Well pyros are VERY good against low health classes like Scout, Engineer, Sniper, Spy and Medic IN CLOSE COMBAT.. Maybe medics has more chance to survive because of a bit more HP and their regeneration ability.
Don't forget that pyro is very "close-combat" class and they countered by Heavies! I mean classes counter other class! Spy countered by pyros and they countered by Heavies. Sometimes a pyro can kill a Heavy but in most situations, they're dead if they face with a Heavy. So If you want to deal with pyros you need a good heavy/medic combo at least.
My own story about this fact:
Once I dominated all of Spies in the enemy team! Two of them weren't that "beginner"! They faced with Spy-checker pyro who can't let them near the sentry for sapping it... I really didn't let them because the pyro is good those sneaky spies .
...
Then they changed their class to Heavy and killed me and they win too.Β
End of the story.
Sometimes you need to change your class to deal with other classes/players! That's why I don't like those people who play with only one class... Everybody should learn to play more classes too instead of mastering only one simple class! A "master" spy CAN sux against a not a master but a bit experienced pyro who often spycheck.
About the airblast: It doesn't that easy sometimes... Perfect timing and a lot of practices! Rockets are a bit easy but other things like arrows and rockets of sentries are really hard to reflect. And sometimes a friendly pyro can save your life with that airblast if you're on fire!
Still, I am glad they gave this airblast to the pyros, but those airblast cost ammo...
About the rage:
It's extremly short sometimes...Β (and it doesn't work like a minigun at all).
Depending on direction... (As you said with aiming up) If that pyro run backwards while firing at you, it has longer range... so don't run forward to it and fires at you while it runs backward but if it runs forwardΒ to you it has the smallest range...
Some people say that: If you let the pyro near at you and you're dead, that's your failure! Well it's a bit strong statement but I have agree with this most in cases.
Remember, pyro is very good at ambushing and flanking enemy! You can avoid ambush in most of situations by scanning your blind spots and set your FOV It helps a lot!
I said this after 200 h playtime with pyro, I think it's enough. (even I played a lot in dodgeball/VSH/FF mod too)
Don't worry, I am not want to argue because of this. Just my opinion and my experience (i think).
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That's the thing, the only real thing that counters Pyros is sentries and Heavies. Even with a Heavy the Pyro can just airblast him to knock him off his aim and run around a corner.
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Ohh I forgot those sentries.. yeah, sentries are effective against Pyros too. And yes airblast can help pyro to deal with heavies too but Heavy (with a medic of course) is a good class to deal with those sneaky pyros... I have to say that some pyros will run away if they see a Heavy.. (I do that too) and try to work with demos or soldiers! You know, team work! Β
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I seem to kill a lot of pyros as a combat medic. I don't know how I survive but I just do.
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Well if you are using the blutsauger you pretty much get back all the health the pyro takes from you.
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In other words: I am a vampire.
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Well, Pyro is a specialized in close-range combat and you will get punished if you let it close enough or let it get the drop on you. Pyro is not a real damage dealer, but when you close too close, you're done for.
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I do understand that the idea behind the Pyro is that he is meant to flank the enemy and be unsuspecting but that's not exactly what it feels like many people do when playing as him. I feel like I can just jump into a crowd of people and deal a massive amount of damage even if they did see me coming.
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"OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP""OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP""OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP""OMG U R SUX U R HETER AND U R BAD AT GEME BECUZ U TINK PEERO OP"
jk
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: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
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Depends of the map, the pyro is pretty ineffective in open range combat, plus it's not too hard to kill him unless you're a scout directly rushing in front of him.
Mah opinion tho, I see what you're thinking there, but consider that the pyro is nothing without his FL, and it doesn't have that much ammo either.
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Yeah but (this might be a personal thing, dunno.) when someones in your face dancing around you throwing flames everwhere, it's pretty hard to shoot them. (Especially as a Soldier or Demoman without damaging yourself)
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Pyro is frustrating, but OP ?
Naaaah, unless you get those fake pros with their degreaser + reserve shooter + axtinguisher, it's all fine kickin' their butts. (I used to go on someone's server who was doing that all the time, hue)
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For so much range though he shouldn't be guarunteed 60 damage on someone.
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