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hq — But is it Art?
Published: 2011-07-09 00:52:58 +0000 UTC; Views: 33616; Favourites: 84; Downloads: 0
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body div#devskin11549557 span.ogpreview { display:none; } body div#devskin11549557 .gr-box, body div#devskin11549557 body { font:400 18px/26px 'Montserrat', 'Calibre', Sans-Serif; background:#eee; color:#7D7F7F; position:relative; border-bottom:none; margin:0; padding:0; z-index:1; } /* ------------------------------------------------------- WRAP ------------------------------------------------------- */ body div#devskin11549557 .wrap { max-width:1080px; margin:auto; padding:0 15px; position:relative; box-sizing:border-box; -moz-box-sizing:border-box; -webkit-box-sizing:border-box; } body div#devskin11549557 .wrap .wrap { width:100%; padding:0; } body div#devskin11549557 .wrap.wide { max-width:1500px; } /* ------------------------------------------------------- COLUMNS ------------------------------------------------------- */ body div#devskin11549557 .col_1, body div#devskin11549557 .col_2, body div#devskin11549557 .col_3, body div#devskin11549557 .col_4, body div#devskin11549557 .col_5, body div#devskin11549557 .col_6, body div#devskin11549557 .col_7, body div#devskin11549557 .col_8, body div#devskin11549557 .col_9, body div#devskin11549557 .col_10, body div#devskin11549557 .col_11, body div#devskin11549557 .col_12 { display:inline; float:left; position:relative; margin-left:1.388%; margin-right:1.388%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_1 { width:5.5550%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_2 { width:13.888%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_3 { width:22.222%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_4 { width:30.555%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_5 { width:38.888%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_6 { width:47.222%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_7 { width:55.555%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_8 { width:63.888%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_9 { width:72.222%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_10 { width:80.555%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_11 { width:88.888%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_12 { width:97.222%; } /* ------------------------------------------------------- COLUMN BEFORE ------------------------------------------------------- */ body div#devskin11549557 .before_1 { padding-left:8.3330%; } body div#devskin11549557 .before_2 { padding-left:16.666%; } body div#devskin11549557 .before_3 { padding-left:25.000%; 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} body div#devskin11549557 .pull_2 { left:-16.667%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_3 { left:-25.000%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_4 { left:-33.333%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_5 { left:-41.667%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_6 { left:-50.000%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_7 { left:-58.333%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_8 { left:-66.667%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_9 { left:-75.000%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_10 { left:-83.333%; } body div#devskin11549557 .pull_11 { left:-91.667%; } body div#devskin11549557 .alpha { margin-left:0!important; } body div#devskin11549557 .omega { margin-right:0!important; } /* ------------------------------------------------------- NESTED COLUMNS ------------------------------------------------------- */ body div#devskin11549557 .col_10 .wrap .col_10 { width:100.00%; margin-left:0.000%; margin-right:0.000%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_10 .wrap .col_9 { width:89.655%; margin-left:1.724%; margin-right:1.724%; } body div#devskin11549557 .col_10 .wrap .col_7 { width:68.965%; 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By techgnotic Perhaps the eternally unanswerable question. But definitely something to chew on... When I first saw it, I was instantly captivated. At first thought, what a brilliant example of modern pointillism! Has some unknown artist taken up the long abandoned banner of Georges Seurat and presented us with a new manifesto championing art as points of light illuminating our waking dreams?! OK, I see now it’s not a painting at all, so my pointillism exuberance is dashed. It’s more likely one of those photo collages with thousands of small images being arranged to create a larger picture. That’s cool. So what’s the picture? If I stare intently long enough, will it suddenly “emerge,” like the ones they sell on the Venice Beach Boardwalk? OK... it’s gum. But, hold on. It is definitely eye-catching. And it has definitely held my attention and stirred my consciousness long enough to force the gears in my head to grind out some “answer” as to how I feel about it. And the brief cerebral adventure sparked by this “work” has brought a bit of fun, a flash of joy, into my heart. Why, I actually think it’s a fine example of performance art, even if only a few of the “artists” involved ever gave a moment’s thought as to where, for best aesthetic impact, they would stick their plug of gum. “Unconscious Group Performance Art (UGPA).”(!!!) An artwork years, perhaps decades, in the making! In any case, it made me think and wonder. It made me feel (happy). So, it’s art to me, even if it’s just saliva-soaked vandalism to someone else. And isn’t that what the wonder of life and art is really all about? I pose the question back onto you. Is this art? Btw, speaking of pointillism, here is a list of 10 deviants that have some wonderful examples of the artform in their galleries. A remarkable number of deviants have responded with their own observations on this “artwork,” pointing out elements for “consideration as art” that I hadn’t even thought of while recording my initial assessment. These included: the question of intention and/or purpose of the artist(s), the effects of time and weather on the piece, and even the architecture of the gummed-upon structure as fundamental to its essence. I hope that by reading these awesomely perspicacious first responses, posted below, more deviants will be encouraged to weigh in with your own unique insights. The Wall of Gum demands that attention must be paid! Here is a small sampling of deviants who have already contributed mightily to the conversation in the thread below. Please share your thoughts with them regarding their opinions or provide us with a completely new take on the question, "but is it art?"
Gum Wall in Seattle
by Paul Balcerak
Flower made out of gum, San Luis Obispo
by Crawfish2007
Chewing Gum Wall
by Ricardo Martins
I LOVE SLO, Bubblegum Alley in San Luis Obispo
by Crawfish2007
Since Posting My Thoughts on “The Wall of Gum”
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Comments: 19426
any thing and everything is art no matter to quility or looks the only bad is if u rip on some ones art saying its urs
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It's fair if you disagree that this is art, but you must have a reason. Simply saying 'its stupid' is flaming
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I like the comment made by
"Looking at this some more, it isn't art only the photo. I'm pretty sure drunken gum-chewing patrons weren't expressing themselves artistically as they carelessly stuck gum on a wall."
I normally don't post comments like that, it was just my honest reaction to it.
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i'm not saying you're wrong, cuz it's an opinion question of course. But i always like to pose this question to people: "How do you define art?" i think it's interesting to hear someone put art into words
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I tell ya, I actually cannot answer that. funny thing actually, I feel like I can say for myself what is NOT art, and yet I can't say what IS art. lol funny paradox hey? XD
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No.
This... all this is artifice.
An artist asked the question.
A writer framed the response.
The eternal unanswered question is
cui bono?
Thus I'll take my benefit, and leave you to it.
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[link]
I took this picture May 25, 2010 at the Seattle Pike Place Market Gum Wall.
I love taking pictures of that wall. I'll post more that I took with my better camera when I get the chance!
deviantART muro drawing
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Though unintended, this wall of gum looks like a large-scale three-dimensional representation of what some people see who have astigmatism. I believe that is one thing that qualifies this wall as art. Besides that, I'm sure for various reasons it's some sort of spectacle that is found beautiful, repulsive, inspiring, and/ or intriguing by different people. As with works in any art form, some will find it insipid or hideous; others will be attracted to it.
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I forgot to add "evocative" to the list of potential qualities this wall of gum carries.
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depends how you look at it. use your imagination it might turn into something. or it might just be gum.
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If a tree falls in the forest and no body is around, does it still make a noise?
You can't escape art, it's the air you breath, it's the ground you walk on, it's even the gum stuck to your shoe. It's with you, always.
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Hey! That's Gum Alley in San Luis Obispo, California!!! (where I live) I see gum alley at least once a week, haha!
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This is a flawed question. Thus, it would create flawed answers.
Its not about the gum. Whether you believe me or not, the gum is the just the paint on the canvas; the ink on the paper. Its about the history that rest upon that wall.
I live in Washington State, and live very close to Seattle. Now, for those who don't know, there is a Gum Wall in Seattle; at Pike Place Market (Or under it, depending on how you locate it). This wall surrounds a theater, known as the Market Theater, which welcomed people for years and years. Customers come to see the Improv shows would stick gum to the wall, along with coins and such in the gum, before entering the theater. The workers would scrape it off, but eventually gave up when they realized that the wall was actually bringing tourists in vast numbers.
Let me ask you now, IS THAT ART?
Does the history of another gum wall impact the difference on how it is formed as art?
Let me put it this way:
To this gum wall, people are entering a club to get drunk, party, and perform various acts of adult behavior. To the Seattle, Pike Place Market Theater Gum Wall, went to enjoy the theater of improvisational arts, which then grew to people going to both watch in theater, and marvel at the mass of ‘Butyl’ rubber stuck to the brick alley walls.
I am not at liberty to tell you whether it is or isn’t art. Nor can anyone really say what art is or was in the first place. Who was the person who looked upon the works of Picasso, Michelangelo and claimed that he created great works of art?
“Is it art, or is it garbage?”
I ask you, why can’t it be both?
I am not one to tell others how to see art. I am different from everyone else here. But you see, that's the point! I love staring at art for hours, upon hours. Seeing the time, effort, passion, soul in a piece that seems to radiate in a creative, perspective, unique wave.
This could be a fantastic piece of art to you. This could be a germaphobe’s nightmare.
In my own history and experience, I say that a wall, not particularly this wall, covered in a technicolored assortment of edible rubber, which has been gnashed by traveler’s teeth, then in the peak of its stickiness, was then pasted to the brick... is art. I wouldn’t want to touch it... but still.
History tells many things when it comes to art. Would Michelangelo be as famous if his work was done yesterday?
I view art as a metaphorical wine. While, occasionally, you can get wine that tastes great as soon as its made; true, majestic wine, quite literally, drinks in time to become the wine that is coveted.
I challenge you, reader, to then ask yourself:
What is art to you? Is it aged? Is it new?
If two people stand in front of a gum wall: one says its art, one says it isn’t. What does that make the wall?
deviantART muro drawing
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If two people stand in front of a gum wall and one claims it to be art and the other one refuses, it makes the wall nothing but controversial.
Though, while quite a lot of art might be controversial, not everything controversial is considered to be art when applying at least a little common sense (think about politics... controversial enough, but hardly anyone would ever call that art - at least I would never do that).
Nonetheless, respectable argumentation
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Hmm... I see what you mean. Politics are something that people try to include me in on, then I say something random then walk away.
~Them: "What do you think about the up coming election?"
~Me: "Root Beer is to me, like wine is to others" *runs away*
I feel that a valid point was hopped over.
I don't mean that anything that is controversial is art. Heavens no! Someone tried to explain how war was "Savage Art". I told them, 'No, it’s just savage.'
What I mean to say is... it’s about two things:
"The eye of the viewer." As far as anyone can tell, the mind of every person is made to see something different. There are people who could walk through a museum or gallery, and think nothing of anything around them.
2) "The history of the said piece." Time ages art like it does wine, which is why I brought that up before, and because it was a epiphany that I had on the spot. Civilization is so strange now, there are so many people who don't appreciate art.
It makes me kinda sad to know people who could look at a well known masterpiece, and they wouldn't feel the power of the art resonating from the piece like the rays of the sun on your skin.
Personally, I look at the Seattle Gum Wall and think, "There has to have been so many people that come here to get the wall this big and well known...".
It’s the first thing that I think of. It’s not art related at all. I am simply marveling at the sheer complexity of how many people must have come here to make this wall what it is.
I then think to myself, 'Well, I got my DSLR and 50mm, I am SOOOOO taking pictures of this! WHOA! Someone made a Mona Lisa out of gum!'
(Which is true, I have a picture of it right here [link] and its really funny when you read what's underneath it, then think about what we are talking about. 
...actually... now that I said that, I just had a thought... art is pulled from what we have, what we are, and what we know.
Think about it:
There are pictures from the Great Depression, a time not particularly known for its great artistic flair among the people, yet there are pictures and paintings of the events and people, and they are well known for their contributions to art.
There are pictures, paintings, sculptures, movies; media that depicts great suffering, pain, anguish, and sadness, and they are the most wondrous pieces of art in history.
Why is that?
That’s when it hit me. Twice in a row, I’m on a roll!
It’s not about the thing itself, it’s about the person, or artist in question, pulling off the energy; creating something based off of, using, or including the thing(s) in subject.
Once you realize this concept, it works! Or, at least in my head.
~If a professional photographer uses extreme camera lighting, follow focus, and depth of field to take a picture of a gum wall... is it art then?
~If a painter uses a wide selection of colors, brushes, and technique to paint a picture of a gum wall... is it art then?
To create a masterpiece, you can’t just have something and present it. It’s all about give a little to make a lot.
Michelangelo created the David, this much is true. But Michelangelo included his keen eye and mastery of the chisel to craft David out of marble.
Mona Lisa was a subject in a painting, true. But Leonardo Da Vinci used his expert hands to paint her in such a way that her mysteriousness stood the test of time, and still remains here to show you her beauty that was captured by one man and a paint brush.
BootRecords, I have no idea is you read everything I have just typed, but if you did, I thank you for reading and giving me these fantastic epiphanies! If you skipped to this part because you saw your name, I implore you to read what I thought up; I have a lot to say on the matter, and I think that reflects on the sheer amount that I am able to fit in this response.
I will ask you this, though, because I liked how you responded to my last question: If you have a gum wall, and you take a picture using all sorts of photographic techniques; or paint a picture using a vast amount of colors and textures, is it art then?
Hope to hear a response soon.
~EPZ379
deviantART muro drawing
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Honestly, dear EPZ-379 I would have never expected such a long and eloquent answer to a post in a long-buried hq-journal 
Now, the nature of art, espacially the lack of a definition that is commonly agreed with, offers a lot of potential for discussion. In one point, I totally agree with you: it's what you call the eye of the viewer. Definitely: art is totally subjective and I'd never argue with someone telling me that his/her definition of art is this and that, might it even be contrary to my personal one.
This actually leads me straight to the question you posed about the wall of gum being photographed or painted: I'll say it depends. I honestly don't know much about photographic techniques, just as I'm obviously not talented enough to paint - nonetheless I can imagine photographies or paintings that also I would consider art. One mayor problem the artist-in-spe will have to face is to offer some concept in his work that makes his/her work more than just a copy or rip-off of the wall's visual appearance.
In another, more recent, hq-blog entry (the one where $techgnotic asked whether fractal art could be considered art [link] ) I discussed my personal view on art, saying that art is mainly about concepts, meaning an artist is the one having a message or any concept, and be it "my, I want to create something that pleases the eyes" in mind and is willing to put it into reality. The way he/she does that in the end, doesn't really matter.
Now, if you have a photographer who simply and with not much of a though takes an image of this wall, I'd most probably not consider it art, mainly because the photographer displays work which doesn't originate from his/her mind. In fact, this is pretty much also the reason why I'm sceptical of this wall's artistic nature, too: it has never been anyeone's concept to be put into reality - it just grew out of itself and, as I suppose, mostly actions of people I'd not consider as "art-oriented". Sure, it's a stunning sight, but only little parts of it has been created with a concept in mind: that part of the wall that you photographed being one of these.
Nonetheless, if a photographer (or a painter just as well) manages to present new perspectives about that gum wall to the beholder, or at least that he put some thoughts into what he produced, I won't hesitate to call it art.
Now, EPZ379, if you read this far (of which I have little doubt
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i think this is a very interesting conversation. I'm not taking either side here, but my question to you now would be: "What is the definition of art?" if you had to define art in a dictionary, what would you write? just curious because it's one of the hardest questions i've ever tried to answer
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Well, SoralsMyHomeboy, the problem with the definition of art is that there is none which is agreed on by a majority of people. Thus, the defintion of art is pretty much a philosophic one (quite in the negative sense though: you may debate about it for centuries and still not produce anything everyone can live with).
You asked, though, and I won't deny you insights on my way of thinking. It's totally up to you though, wether you agree with it or run away scared
"Art is trying to express one's concepts of mind (e.g. emotions, opinions or [abstract] thoughts) by using material resources."
Yup, I guess that's about it. Believe me, I sat on that for quite a while.
There's one notable thing about that, though. The mentioned resources, being mere matter, will never allow an artist to express mentioned concepts in a way that every beholder will understand them. That's just the way human minds work - there's just no way to directly and unalteredly transfer information from one mind to another (at least none that a significant number of people are capable of using), so how could there possibly be a way to do so by using matter?
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I completely agree with you and i do think that one person can say something is art while another says it's art. oddly enough, the only thing i'm disagreeing with in your comment here is the thing about a philosophical answer being negative. something that can be debated forever isn't necessarily negative. it provides great insight.
That's my little spiel
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It sure does provide insights when debated about, that's correct. As a science oriented person I like definite answers on old topics from time to time, though
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aah, i see. i'm opposite. i hate definite answers. i like to ponder and consider every possibility...and then prove that there's no definite answer XD
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I will reply to this.
Promise.
I've been busy, what with jobs and me leaving for college on the 16th, and classes starting on the 21th.
Been preoccupied.
I will say this: I am glad I struck up a conversation with a very smart, well spoken human being. I don't get that opportunity that often. When I found out that you where a fractal artist, that made me jump with joy. Like this
I left a nice long comment on the poll post: "Is fractal art truly an art form or just something produced by poking patterns into a computer?" back on August 16th.
[link]
Now that you pointed out this blog post, I too shall leave a long representation of why fractals aren't appreciated enough.
For people to even question them is like... calling a five star restaurant's highest praized dish "just food".
Its insulting to the artist/cook!
"How dare you insult mah masterpiece!" (imagine the artist/cook with an accent. It compliments the atmosphere)
Never the less. I will reply to the whole comment that you have left me. I would assume that it would only be fair, seeing as you typed out a response that had me speechless.
Thank you for that!
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Take your time, this conversation is no hasty one - I know how stressful it is to start studying. I, too, am quite busy currently, as I've got to prepare myself for the rest of my exams 
Nonetheless I'll eagerly await the answer you promised, because I really enjoy this conversation - thank you for that
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a brilliant evasion of the originally posed question haha
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All part of the master plan, sandreezy!
deviantART muro drawing
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Jackson Pollock is intentional, Pointillism is intentional, and so Al Held.... These people it takes though, purpose, and time to construct. This is a trend.... not art.
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I agree that attention must be paid to the wall of gum, as it has been... in wads & wads.
I find the reality of such a thing to be at once, disgusting, amusing, revolting and intriguing. I am thus otherwise struck speechless!
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So if everything is art. If art is just an expression. If Art is just becomes art when I said is art…
Then when I flip my finger to people should be considered as art!
After all everything is art, is an expression, and I just say this is art.
I cat taking dump is art, this "Wall of Gum" is just vertical garbage!
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Its like a phenomenon. Like natural art formed over time. Either that or a testament of how disgusting and lazy the recent generations have become to not even care where they stick their gum, and even worse that no one ever decided to clean it up.
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Every think from the imagination is art (todos los pensamientos de la imaginación son arte).
Art is ourselves, with all our deffects and cualities, because we are art by God Jehova (Arte somos nosotros, con todos nuestros defectos y cualidades, porque somos arte de Jehová Dios).
Art is all that you imagine and express, art is not a defined way, art is simply the extense horizon that we have in the mind (arte es todo lo que tú imaginas y expresas, el arte no es una forma definida, el arte es simplemente el extenso horizonte que tenemos en la mente).
For me, this is art!! (Para mí, eso es arte!!)
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this particular piece with the gum on the wall is quite interesting, and yes i would consider it art simply because art is an emotive and original idea that is intended to strike a unique and specific emotion within the audience. talent is only a small portion of what constitutes good art, uniqueness above all and everything is what makes art....art. inspiration can be rapidly caught and bounced from one mind to the next with minor tweaks that drastically change the outcome allowing a piece to be completely original with it's own personality and striking emotions. art looses every ounce of what makes it art if it is continual use of the same idea, same drawing, same character, over and over and over again. anything that is clearly an obvious depiction of another persons idea, or character for that matter, should clearly be considered plagiarism, or completely unoriginal and lacking any personal or emotive value. art is unique, art is original, art is emotive.
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Anything can be art, but not everything is art. Whenever someone declares an object/image as art, it becomes art. Whether it be Duchamp's urinal, Klein's Blue, or a bored teenager carving his initials into his pencil. When Duchamp, Klein, and the bored teen declared the object/color/pencil art it is art.
For those who disagree and believe it must be "realistic" or "traditional" then the whole New York School of Art including Pollock, de Kooning, and Rothko should be thrown out. You would also be arguing that anything even slightly abstracted like Manet's work and more expressive like Van Gogh's work would also have less value in your eyes because it is less realistic.
And for those who declare that there must be some sort of "self-expression" or "self-input" then you are rejecting Koons, Rubens, and any fanartist on da that takes a commission. Koons and Rubens have pieces of work where they only supervised others who actually physically executed their idea. And Rubens and a fanartist taking a commission did not come with with any idea on their own or are trying to express their own feelings, they are expressing the feelings of whoever commissioned the work.
I'm not trying to argue that you should think highly of this Wall of Gum, abstract art, or found objects, but I am arguing that you cannot declare something is not art, when the artist or another viewer believes it to be art. There are no rules to art and that's what makes it so beautiful.
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It is art, it is a statement of how and what the person who made it is thinking, we can think it is something else in many ways, but it is still art. Truthfully, I think any wart is awsome because it is like how they express themselves and what is on thier mind. I actually made something similar like this.
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Francis of Asissi is credited with having said: "He who works with his hands is a labourer; he who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman; he who works with his hands, his head and his heart is an artist." (That may be a bit paraphrased; it has been a long time since I have seen the quote.) I take this to heart. Craft is labour first, and art must needs first be craft. As to the wall of gum - no, it's not art. It is expressive and interesting; its colour densities are strongly reminiscent of Pollock's stuff, but he was mimicking patterns and shapes that occur in nature and that's really all the wall of gum is. Art requires labour and craft and - heart - an artist's will and vision. Art needs to be created, not merely found, or else what you have lacks that essential, willful quality.
My two cents worth, anyway.
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I think this question on if "This is or isn't art" quickly steers into this pretentious holier than thou conversation made by some artists who feel like their stuff is art and other people need to eat shit and die. lol--- I personally have tried to wrap myself around this question for quite some time.
For a time I even thought that "oh this is not art" etc. There was one professor I had that said if it is not original or creates a new medium or something of the sort its not art its just repetition. Gimme a break. Then he never was an artist in his life then, he should be arrested for impersonating one.
I currently feel that if you are expressing yourself creatively and you are using your particular medium as a form of UNIQUE expression, then that is art. You can be a basketball player and be considered and artist, and I think some basketball players are artistic in the way they play, or you can be an interior decorator and be an artist.
People want to be so self-important so badly, that they attempt to create this tight circle around what they do- define what is or isn't to put themselves in elite company. No your not in elite company, welcome to earth, there are millions of artists creating billions of works of art every single day. You're a drop in the ocean, and nothing is wrong with being apart of that collective creativity.
In my opinion- if your trying to express an idea or concept or something abstract like beauty or emotion in a CREATIVE- UNIQUE way then thats art. There's lots that can fall into that category- get over it fellow elitists.
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amen, also to your signature ^^
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Jackson Pollock was intentional this was just a repetition that turned into something. This isn't art just "Hey it looks neat. I'm going to do it too." Like Twitter or Facebook it's not art but a trend.
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I firmly but respectfully disagree with those that say "anything" can be art as long as it "conveys emotion" or "stirs feelings" or "has meaning." Those things are half the story, because I strongly believe art must also be a mastery of something. Finesse, craftsmanship, and skill are the other half the equation, and with only one or the other, it doesn't cut it in my book.. i cant' look at the wall of gum and classify it under the same word as the works of daVinci or Sargent, no matter how many people claim that it stirs feelings or makes them think about it.. a rock can make you think about it, but it's unlikely to be classified as art until some overly self-confident "artist" puts it in a museum and gives it a name. Cheers
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If you have to convey "mastery" of something to be an artist. Then none of us are artists. Whoever says they are- are LYING IMPOSTORS. The beauty of art is that you always learn and you are always developing and maturing. It's like life. Art itself possesses an intangibility, you can never fully grasp it cause it reflects your perception and your perceptions are always in flux (hopefully).
If you're content with your art, great for you. But it's only static if you make it that way. The moment you decide to want to learn or implement something different into your art, then it changes. The process is always struggle on some level. If there isn't then what is it all for?
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i absolutely agree, very few people are true artists, because there's so many people today who use "style" or other vague words to excuse themselves from having a mastery of their craft. As Donald Trump said, before you do it your way, you better damn sure be able to do i THEIR way. Look at Picasso, his later works were as abstract and "stylistic" as anyone's but then look at his early works, from age 16... he moved towards cubism and other styles after thoroughly MASTERING the traditional form of art (which is not to say classical painting is the only art).. I find it difficult to appreciate something that absolutely ANYone can do (i.e. hang a white canvas and splatter paint on it) because it takes away from the real value of great art, and i'll never believe the ridiculous stories people tend to conjure about such works..
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I hate Picasso even more than I would normally for that very reason, he could actually draw and paint well, but instead decided to do cubism.
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