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i-stamp — Kimba and Simba
Published: 2011-04-24 05:32:16 +0000 UTC; Views: 7041; Favourites: 265; Downloads: 407
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Description
Made with a combination of Photoshop and Flash cs3.The Lion King copied a great deal off Kimba: The White Lion. And even if you like The Lion King better, even if they were originally going to make a 'tribute,' they never asked for permission and never credited Tezuka Inc. for the theft they never apologized for.
You can be a fan of TLK and not have the guilty conscious trying to justify a wrong Disney did. But don't try and deny it. That's what lets these things happen over and over again. Instead, be happy that Kimba was around to "inspire" Disney.
For more about the Kimba v. Simba debate, there's a really outdated website over here .
P.S. I will never disable comments just because people disagree with me. Feel free to voice your opinions.
P.P.S. Thanks to for the motivation to do this stamp.
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Comments: 279
I know but
Withouth Kimba there isnt Simba, but, withouth Simba most people will never learn about Kimba
anyway love both Simba and Kimba!
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Kimba used to be a household name before Lion King came out. Even the voice of Simba knew the show and thought he was being casted as Kimba in a remake. But since Disney has been buying up most of the major Saturday morning cartoon channels (ABC, ABC Kids, ABC Family, Fox Kids, and so on) it would not be surprising at all to learn that Disney is limiting access to it. After all, Disney tried to sue the FantAsia Film Festival to prevent it from showing Kimba. At the time Lion King was made, Disney brass were a bunch of stereotypical corporate tycoons, crooks and thieves.
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Why people gotta go attackin' each other. Most are going to biased depending on which one they watched first and their preference on anime or the Disney style of animation. How about we all go back to making some art on an art website.
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I generally prefer Disney style of animation. But I don't condone theft. Part of art is making statements, even if the statements cause conflict.
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If that is the case (which it probably is, along with Hamlet) then I am very glad! 
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His wife said that the only reason she wasn't suing is because Tezuka had been a fan of Disney and didn't want to sink the company. In Japan, litigation is only a last resort. But many people, including many of the creating staff, said they were profoundly disappointed in Disney.
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Ah, that's sad. Still they are both great movies
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But... what if you like BOTH?
Equally...
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really if you look at the story, they have almost nothing in common except for the father dyeing and him being born into power. and the company that made it werent upset
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Sure, they have nothing in common except the father lion dying and then appearing in the clouds to encourage his cub son to take the throne from a usurping evil uncle lion with dark hair, a wounded left eye, who employs comedic relief hyenas, and battles Kimba's friend including a colorful bird who's the king's aid, a wise old mandrill who is called a baboon, a warthog, meerkat, all in the kingdom overlooked by a jutting cliff top which is ideal for lion-roaring panoramics, as well as a creepy bone graveyard, a tangle of thorn nettles, a fight where burning sand and cinders are scooped into the villian's eye...and so on and so forth.
There's plenty more than just the father dying. [link]
And his wife said that the only reason she wasn't suing is because Tezuka had been a fan of Disney and didn't want to sink the company. In Japan, litigation is only a last resort. But many people, including many of the creating staff, said they were profoundly disappointed in Disney.
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i never watched kimba but what makes it a rip off. is it the characters or the story?
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From the TVtropes page:
"Kimba the White Lion is a 1965 television series based on Osamu Tezuka's manga "Jungle Taitei". The series follows a white lion named Kimba (Leo in the Japanese version), who due to the death of his father, is forced to become the king of the jungle. With the help of an old baboon who once advised his father and a comically mismatched pair of buddies, he must reclaim his kingdom from a black-maned, scarred lion who has usurped the throne in his absence."
Also some images from the show...
[link]
[link]
For the record, I am a total fan of Lion King, and have not personally seen Kimba either, but the similarities are a bit too much to ignore.
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oh now i see. but i wouldn't consider it a rip off if it was for the plot, because they are both meant to be based of William Shakespeare's Hamlet.
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[link]
Explain that.
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Did you finish reading what I said?
I said the plot is not a rip off.
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I indeed finished. XD
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ok, i do not deny TLK and Kimba have simularitys but they are very different. Here's some stuff i have done some research on.
1: The Name simularitys (Kimba to Simba): Simba means lion in swahili. Kimba is just a regular name that Tezuka productions came up with.
2: the father scenarios (In Kimba: Ceaser in TLK: Mufasa): Ok, this is one of the more common things i see debated. Fist of all, Ceaser serves more as a conscience to Kimba when Mufasa comes and visits Simba in his time of need. Also the way both of them die is drasticly different.
3: The great Mheetu debate (nala's little brother): Ok, So that website you put a link to only shows the young Mheetu sketches. Also Mheetu was first planned to be a pale, light tan and he had spots. But anyways, Mheetu was not going to be a baby but a very young cub. also, TLK had designs for his adolesence. He get's A little darker as he ages and his mane is dark brown. That wouldn't be white or black, now would it?
If TLK is truely copying something it is the Shakesphere play Hamlet. For when they were first storyboarding, It was called Bamblet for reference. Bambi Because it featured an all animal cast and Hamlet because they wanted to tell an old classic modernly and make it new and easy to understand for younger audiances.
Now i am a huge fan of Kimba and i love it very much. i watched the old and new adventures of Kimba when i was a little kid, but i still love Lion King and i don't think they copied it.
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[link]
1. 'Kimba' was the English name given to Leo when it was translated to English. They originally were going to use 'Simba' but thought that using the Swahili word for 'lion' was a little heavy-handed.
2. The way they die isn't so important as the exact same imagery used for his appearances post-mortem.
3. Sounds like a band-aid 'lore' they gave the character to avoid it being compared to kimba after the fact. I don't buy it.
Hamlet did not have the aforementioned imagery, dark complexion wounded eyed lion, his comedic relief hyena henchmen, the wise baboon/mandrill and so on. It's too similar to be coincidental. And while there were still differences, there were also things that they copied.
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You got me there. Yes the simularitys like that are indeed fishy. here this is where i got some of my info. Note that the people are very reliable and the sites are too.
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
I put the last one there sheerly because, It has been said that Tezuma pro. worked with the disney to come up with TLK
Also, it is not like Tezuma Pro. is completely inocent. They wanted to remake a version of Bambi
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It's true that Tezuka wanted to do a Bambi remake. The difference is though that Tezuka worked with Disney and gained their permission and collaborated on projects. The Lion King incident was different. I believe the Tezuka Inc. and family would have had a much different response if they had done something as little as asked. Instead, Disney to this day denies that Kimba had any influence, and there's quotes all over the internet from Disney officials saying that the similarities were coincidental. Disney did not work with Tezuka when making TLK.
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Also, Tezuka could have tried to sue disney, but no matter how popular tezuka's stuff is, disney would still trump over tezuka. Disney makes a lot of money. waaaaaay more than tezuka. tezuka would loose. and also, scar was made to be an animal version of jafar. if you look at the two they are very simular. the whole fact that he has a scar could indeed be coppied. and then again there is a reason for that scar that disney released. scar's real name is Taka and he got the scar because while trying to make mufasa seem foolish he nearly got gored by a buffullo. as far as his accent, scar doe not have an english accent!i'm not exactly sure what his accent is but it aint english. also, if your gonna sue someone for the whole english accent thing sue scar's voice actor. what their voice sounds like depends on the person voicing the charecter! oh, and english accents seem to be a trademark bad guy thing anyway. so are scars! Scars show that they are tough and wont back down if challenged.
i have a bad guy in the book i am writing with an english accent! He also has black hair and dark skin.oh and wait for it, he does have a scar! two actually. I must be coppying kimba!
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You're going really far out of your way to tip-toe around this. But your argument is straining at the seams. The reason Tezuka Inc. didn't sue Disney is because, in their life, Walt Disney and Osamu Tezuka were friends. And to Japan companies inherited to families are given the same sort of respect individuals are. Lion King was made after both people had passed away, but Tezuka Inc did make known that they were profoundly disappointed in the Disney company for so obviously nicking their intellectual property (as Disney has on many occasions nicked intellectual property).
Scar looking like Claw was no coincidence, the scar was in the same place, the design was the same (not just a dark villian with scars, but a dark lion with a black mane and darker fur with the wounded eye being on the same side.)
There's even a fight sequence that involves Claw and Kimba finally facing off and Claw scoops a hand full of hot sand into Kimba's eye to try and win the fight.
Also, the voice actor is not to blame for the script and director, which called for the character being acted that way.
Your feet are getting pruned. Step out of de nile.
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hey, i already know i lost this debate but there's no need to be rude. i was just getting some last points across. you have already proved to me everything. also, i bought the new lion king dvd that said the original name for lion king was the king of the jungle. that gave me final assurence to make sure that i didn't have anything to doubt.i'm supprised they didn't sue personaly.
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Sorry for the rudeness. I didn't think you were covering all angles, just thought you were being belligerent. 
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lol sorry, i was being a bit vague. i just love to debate and forgot a few things.
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In all honesty, I don't have much against ripoffs, but sometimes, just for shits and giggles, I want to wright on a Lion King 3D poster saying "Lion King Rips off Kimba The White Lion.
PS: Sorry for ruining your childhood."
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i like both kimba and simba,i really wish they did credit the creators of kimba >.<
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Bro, if Disney had to give credit to Kimba's creators, then they'd have to give credit to Charles Dickens for Tale of Two Cities. Legit.
Furthermore, TLK is very different from Kimba. Seriously, the whole debate is rather pointless.
Lions, yes, orphan boys, y-wait. Simba's mother, Sarabi, is NOT DEAD.
Kimba's father was killed by poachers.
Simba's father was killed by his power-hungry uncle.
Kimba got shipped off to a zoo with his mother, but she pushed him out into the sea during a storm.
Simba ran away believing he was the cause for his daa's death.
Kimba's mother taught him his father's ideals.
Simba's father taught him much of his ideals, but died before he taught the cub everything.
Kimba's mother presumably drowned.
Simba's mother is still alive and well even in TLK2.
Kimba was taught to swim by fish and followed butterflies to land.
Simba nearly dies of dehydration in the desert.
Kimba is cared for my humans, and learns aboout human culture, far, far away from where he started.
Simba isn't all that far from where he started, and he is adopted by two other animal outcasts, Timon and Pumbaa and is taught Hakuna Matata, which is swahili for "no difficulties".
Kimba vowed he would return to bring culture to the jungle.
Simba had no intention of returning until he hallucinated about his father in the clouds and got hit on the head by a baboon-mandrill who very much likes to chant seeming nonsense, when he's really just singing in Swahili.
'Asante sana Squash Banana, wewe nugu mimi apana'
"Thankyou very much squash banana, for you are a baboon, and I am not" (loose translation).
In Kimba's story, the main conflict was between humans and the jungle animals.
In Simba's story, the main conflicts were Simba's indecision and regrets, and Scar's treachery.
Moreover, one is a SERIES, the other is a MOVIE.
Quite frankly, you can't compare the two types, because series can take longer to develope characters and plot, but in a movie you have maybe an hour, hour and a half before people start leaving the threater.
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This list does not diminish the far longer list of things that are too similar to have come about accidentally, many of which have already been gone over in the comments section. There is far more that is the same between TLK and Kimba than there is between Tale of Two Cities.
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And I point I didn't make successfully in that comment:
Nothing is truly original.
Kimba's author(because first and foremost Kimba started as a BOOK) just put unoriginal ideas together, and added a few minor details.
As did TLK's creators.
The same base plot has been done over and over.
I watched some silent movie in history class and it was pretty much the same, but with people and different settings.
Saying TLK stole from Kimba is like saying TLK stole from every other movie/series with a reluctant hero who leaves home to return sometime later to take his rightful place that predates it.
Moreover, Kimba doesn't actually make sense, in terms of the lions' species anyway.
How is Claw a barbary lion when his brother Panja is a masai lion?
And how come the lions don't resemble their subspecies? If they did so, Claw would be the biggest, even over Panja. And anyway, they resemble asiatic lions, not african ones.
TLK lions are only ever specified as african lions, which encompasses a wide range, and allows Scar to be physically weak and Mufasa huge, especially considering Disney revealed their parents.
More of my opinion: [link]
Feel free not to click. I'll just end up repeating myself, like that's anything new.
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'Nothing is original' is a cop-out. An excuse for accepting the same recycled drivel. In reality, there are degrees of originality. Some are more original than others, and some are outright derivative.
Nobody had an English accented dark-colored one-eyed lion who employed comedic hyenas before Kimba. Nobody had a now-famous panoramic circle around a lion prince come king on a high outcropping of rock surrounded by animal subjects and a spray of birds before Kimba.
And so on and so on (see numerous comments for more). Whether Kimba has real or fictitious aspects to its story does not diminish that The Lion King got away with intellectual theft, that Disney was in the wrong and should have admitted they were in the wrong. That is my point.
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Certain of that?
I have heard tales, of oral African origin, which are surprisingly similar to Kimba, but predate it.
As for the English accent, are you talking the japanese version? Because that's not an english accent yo, even in japanese.
And English accent covers the US and britain, so be more specific.
Scar sounded east-coast US.
Besides, if you're dubbing a movie for a certain language speaking part of the world, you're going to use native speakers, no?
You aren't going to have an asian man whose taken 4 years of english dub the english version of an anime, yeah?
Once again, that high outcrop of rock, IS A THRONE BECAUSE ANIMALS CAN'T SIT IN CHAIRS.
Except Timon, because his anatomy actually allows it.
Seriously. You know how retarded even three year old'd think that look? A lion sitting in a king's throne, while animals line up to the sides like they were people?
So... Scar was going to use elephants to claim the throne? How about the gazelle? Or maybe, I dunno, hornbills?!
Hyenas really are the only threat outside humans to lions, besides enviormental causes. Leopards and cheetahs are complete wussies, and they don't challenge lions or the lionesses, due to solitary nature.
However, hyenas travel in groups and can pose a threat to lions and groups of lions.
Whether or not it was stolen, it makes sense, so it's logical to use hyenas as the cronies of the main villain, especially because of the hyena's horrible reputation.
What doesn't make sense is a whole gathering of anumals used to 70+ degree fairenheit weather standing on an iceberg.
Birds travel in groups, fyi.
If you startle one, you startle 'em all. And I think a huge gathering of predators and prey alike would make 'em take flight.
Beyond that, the "huge spray" of birds, is just one, Zazu. At no point does a flock of birds fly in front of Simba or Mufasa while they're posing on Pride Rock. True, flocks of birds fly to Pride Rock, but then they just take seats on the other animals.
TLK has it's own originality, it's not all copied, therefore, no one has to apologize.
Intellectual theft? If you don't want it stolen in some way, don't put it out there. Just how the world, especially anything in media, works. All you can do is deal with it, because it's always an eventuality.
Anyway, Osamu Tezuka, never commented, nor did his wife.
They're fine with it, why can't every single fuckin' too-obsessed weaboo be fine too? It was bound to be copied sooner or later.
What do you guys want, royalties to be paid to Tezuka's family everytimg TLK is played?
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The "there's some obscure folklore I heard third hand from somewhere imaginary undisclosed" is the second oldest excuse in the book (next to 'nothing is original')
English accents (there are multiples by region) comes from Britain. American accents (there are multiples by region) come from America. Scar is meant to have English accents (a bad accent, but it was still the intention and even outlined). Both Claw and Cassius in Kimba did too (the Japanese version) but only Cassius pulled it off in the English version.
I never mentioned the word 'throne' in my reply. That was never my issue. My issue was the exact same panoramic shot, design and execution (see the numerous side-by-sides already provided in the comments).
The lion king is anything but original.
Tezuka was dead at the time, and his successor did make a statement regarding their disappointment and ceasing of working with Disney from then on. The only reason they didn't sue, they said, was out of respect for Walt (also deceased) and his family.
They are not fine with it. They're just too polite to give Disney the kick the balls they deserve.
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I've always had mixed feelings on this. With what little research I've done, I still think that, at least for the greater part, it was more so just an accidental coincidence. After all, "Simba" is a Swahilli name that means "lion". That seems fair to me, albeit not very clever. Then there's the whole "based on hamelt" spheel, but I'm sure you're familiar with that. Then again, I've also never watched Kimba, so I may have no room to speak at all.
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The names aren't what I take issue with. It's stuff like:
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
[link]
It wasn't just an uncle who was a villain, it was an uncle with a darker complexion and a wounded left eye who spoke in a British accent. Who employed comedic relief hyena henchmen. Father in the clouds. The stampede. The prince eating bugs/vegetation to make peace with vegetarian friends (including a warthog and a meerkat). The baboon (who's actually a mandrill) wise mystic who gives advice at just the right time. And so on and so on and so on. Too much to be coincidence and to be based on Hamlet alone.
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As far as the dark complexion, that's a disney trademark for bad guys, so I can't agree with you there XD; (And I never noticed that he had much of an British accent >>)
Some of the pictures are a little far-fetched, but, the other points are quite inarguable 
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Disney never trademarked a dark maned British (yes, Scar speaks with a British accent) lion bad guy...until long after it was already done by Claw.
No worries. All I ask for with this stamp is the ceasing of willful denial and mental hoops some Lion King fans go through. Not all by any means. But some.
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What I meant is, making their villains dark and lanky (with the exception of Ursula, who was still dark) is just something that they do, all the time XD He'd have been that way (at least without the scar) whether it was a ripoff or not.
In my defense, I was moreso on the fence about it, since I hadn't done hardly any research. I'm more convinced now 
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I personally like the TLK musical better than the movie, but I understand that it was built off the blood, sweat and tears of someone else. I don't credit Disney with any revelations. Just like if I saw an art theft which was preferable to the original, or I saw it first and liked it... It's still art theft.
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Neither do I. Anything else I would have to say about it, I can't say until I've seen Kimba, so I'm gonna have to leave it at that
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Off topic: there's no such thing as a British accent! Was reading your comments and had to put it, as it seems to be a common misconception! Put all the Northern Irish, Welsh, Scottish and English accents together and you have one weeeeird accent that doesn't exist. Scar has an English accent.
There certainly are a lot of similarities and Disney has the power to do something like that without getting too much flack. I have to say though, even taking the time differences into consideration - the Disney version was a lot better! That is just my opinion though and I think that's why they got away with it. They should make a modern version of Kimba the White Lion and maybe there'd be more publicity about this issue. I reckon the Lion King stands on its own though and has enough originality to be good for its own reasons, as well as the blatant copyright theft!
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I just saw this a little bit ago so sorry for the delayed reply...but! In fairness, there is no such thing as an American accent either, by that standard, because America consists of way more countries than just the United States of America. But most people understand that when you say 'American accent' you're talking about the USA, whereas if someone says 'British accent,' they're talking about England.
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Hmmm yeah you're right, mind you I'm pretty confused about America. I thought America was the states all put together - then there is South America, but that is not the same as America in that Northern Ireland is not the same as Ireland. Canada and other parts of the continent that aren't in the USA I wouldn't class as American - there are Canadian accents and then American accents. All the American accents are also different as are the English accents...but then you have Hawaii, which is completely different, and nobody would say a Hawaiian has an American accent yet they are in the States! It's CRAZY! You know, we all complain cos you guys don't know much about the UK - but we really don't know much about America either. XD So...would you correctly say "North American accent"? Or...USAian accent lol
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I like USAian accent. America (or the Americas) are separated into lots of territories. North America consists of Canada, USA and Mexico. Central America is around a half dozen countries between North America and South America, and then South America is everything past Panama. There's also Latin America, which consists of Mexico, Central America, much of South America and the Caribbeans.
Although if you want to really start splitting hairs, within the US we have a lot of different accents. Someone from New York has a different accent from someone in Georgia (though both could be called 'USAian' accents). Just like someone from London has a different accent from someone in Liverpool (though both could be called 'English accents') But I expect a good deal of people from the UK couldn't differentiate between USAian accents, just like most of us people from the USA couldn't differentiate different accents in the UK.
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XD fair enough, that is what we meant, but thanks for the clarificaton :3
I don't necessarly think that the success or quality justifies the infrinment, but I still do think it's a great movie with beautiful artwork and music, ad on its own is a fantastic movie. I feel bad that the original got shoved to the back, but shit happens XD
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hehe yeah sorry for the pedantickness. Means a lot in the UK though. No, you're right, much as I hate copyright in general such a blatant steal isn't justified by how well you do it - although a well done steal is better than a badly done steal 
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No need to apologize! I'd rather be informed than look like an idiot
Yeah, I do feel kind of bad that Kimba didn't get a lot of attention, but I also don't think it would have regardless. If anything, the fact that Lion King is based/ripped off from Kimba probably gives it more continuous attention than it would have had on its own run.
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Well, you learn something new everyday :C I love lion king! And, yeah it's better (I mean, if it was made during the same year, they might have been able to have it look better too) but still - this just proves my point that there are very few things out there anymore that are originals!
Don't tell me The Iron Giant came from something else too! T^T
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