KtrenalWinterheart In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 12:01:26 +0000 UTC]

That's a good point, except that those services I mentioned had those rates even when the whole self-publishing digitally thing was still very much unproven. Given the success of those services, and the fact that Madefire is targeting a slightly different market (comics and animation), which only really has competition in the form of Comixology (which has MUCH higher fees), I still think 40% is quite reasonable, and the people who're saying it's expensive obviously haven't done their research.

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MojoLiazon In reply to KtrenalWinterheart [2014-07-10 12:17:26 +0000 UTC]

That's interesting, I didn't know they started out with those rates. Still, they were already big companies before they launched their publishing services. It might have been yet unproven as a service/product but they were right about there being demand, which is a bit different from being a lesser known platform trying to launch something similar. I think this will end up on Amazon etc, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a buyout or similar programs are made for those platforms, after all it's a good idea. I don't have any argument with the 40% myself.

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KtrenalWinterheart In reply to MojoLiazon [2014-07-10 12:58:31 +0000 UTC]

I also wouldn't be surprised to see this bought out by Amazon or Google eventually. I do very much like the idea behind this, especially since nothing else quite like it exists. But one of the truths of economics is that a smaller company does inherently have higher overheads proportionate to sales than a larger company does - and a big corporation has plenty of cash allowing them to run a new project at a loss. With this service being completely free unless you start using it to sell your comic, the fees go to help pay for the cost of developing the software, plus... well, subsidising the people using it for free. That's a truth of ANY service offering free and paid versions - the paying customers are always paying just a bit more than the value of what they're buying, because their money is also covering for the people not paying anything.

Glad we agree on the reasonable-ness of the fee, though. I'm really glad something like this exists. I've been saying for years that with the traditional publishing industry for books, comics, music, etc being so hard to get into for most people, having this huge stranglehold on the content consumers can have access to (marketability counts for more than quality - Twilight, 50 Shades Of Gray, and Justin Bieber, anyone? XD), then self-publishing and digital distribution is going to be the way to break that. I simply adore the freedom of choice that this service will give readers.

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MojoLiazon In reply to KtrenalWinterheart [2014-07-12 13:47:25 +0000 UTC]

Yes, it will be very interesting to see what the public really wants to read, not just what publishers have decided we will read. I find mainstream generally as boring as heck. Haven't seen Twilight and don't think I ever will, haven't read 50 S.O.G. and as for Justin Bieber... Well, I reckon he'd be doing better if people stopped trying to style him into some pseudo Elvis. Not a fan of his music but maybe in future he will make some less mainstream and more artistic, genuine stuff, right now the marketing machine has him firmly in its grips and they're milking the cow. He did show musical talent as a kid, anyway.

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BenWolstenholme In reply to KtrenalWinterheart [2014-07-11 02:08:36 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for debating this Zavahier and MojoLiazon - we are a smaller outfit with a smaller marketplace but growing all the time. The challenge is always driving peoples sales and readership - i think that there are pros and cons in being big also though - for example it's much easier to get lost in an amazon scale marketplace than Madefires  

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ShtGnRmance In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 08:22:53 +0000 UTC]

my sister will love this

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SabakuNoShi In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 08:18:07 +0000 UTC]

Looks interesting

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invisible-16 In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 08:12:23 +0000 UTC]

Seems nice...

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Anastasia122 In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 08:05:37 +0000 UTC]

Ah it's awesome

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Dancing-Kitten In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 08:02:26 +0000 UTC]

Not feeling that deduction at all, but the whole idea seems neat enough that I might try it for OCTs and stuff.

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NinjaCheetah In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 08:01:22 +0000 UTC]

It's a cool idea, but 40% deduction?? That's a ridiculous amount 

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BenWolstenholme In reply to NinjaCheetah [2014-07-11 02:11:31 +0000 UTC]

We have worked really hard to find a share that is fair for creators but gives us some money IF the creator makes some money. The Tool is free to use and you can make your books free and we don't see any income. Our goal is to strike a balance where we serve the creators but can keep the Tool and Platform Free for everyone and at the cutting edge. Hope that gives some insight

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BenWolstenholme In reply to BenWolstenholme [2014-07-11 02:12:00 +0000 UTC]

Sorry, i should add i am one of the Madefire team

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Kiwikku In reply to NinjaCheetah [2014-07-10 14:34:07 +0000 UTC]

Most other publishing services cost like 50-65%.. (amazon, comixology, itunes etc)
I think it's fair: We didn't pay for the tool or the server space to host this stuff. They need to make their money somehow. 

Besides, EVERYBODY knows the real money in webcomics is the MERCHANDISE. You can almost NEVER make a living off the actual print sales of the book. In the hardback publishing world, you're lucky if you see a dollar per book.

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MonochromeGoggles In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 07:49:32 +0000 UTC]

Yeahhhh, no. The 40% deduction is insane. Not even professional publishing companies are that greedy. I can see 10%, or even 20%, but I'll be damned if I create a fully-operational motion book, only to get more than 25% of my entire sales taken away. Do the math people, the numbers are terrible! For example:

Sell 100 books/chapters for 5$ each=500$
Subtract 40% ( 500x .4)= 200$
Now remove that from your overall profit
500-200= 300$ in your pocket
This is assuming you even make a motion book that becomes popular enough to get 100 people to be interested/buy it.
So you spend X amount of hours creating a complex and visually appealing comic, for about enough money to buy a month's worth of groceries for 1, maybe 2 people.

What's worse is, if people are going to treat the Motion book system the same way that the point system has been mismanaged, then I want no part of it. I'd be better off not creating a motion book for profit at all, or learning how to create a book for mobile platforms from-scratch. The idea is promising, but unless things are changed to 15 or even 20% at MAXIMUM to use the service for profit, I'm not going to use it for profit-minded works. Maybe to make Motion books for fun or personal stories, but certainly not to earn barely a two-week paycheck if I get lucky.

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Kiwikku In reply to MonochromeGoggles [2014-07-10 14:33:50 +0000 UTC]

Most other publishing services cost like 50-65%.. (amazon, comixology, itunes etc)
I think it's fair: We didn't pay for the tool or the server space to host this stuff. They need to make their money somehow. 

Besides, EVERYBODY knows the real money in webcomics is the MERCHANDISE. You can almost NEVER make a living off the actual print sales of the book. In the hardback publishing world, you're lucky if you see a dollar per book.

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Lmih In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 07:47:12 +0000 UTC]

This... This is really awesome.

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BenWolstenholme In reply to Lmih [2014-07-11 02:13:40 +0000 UTC]

thanks

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fedde In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 07:10:03 +0000 UTC]

I can't find an answer to this anywhere, so have to ask: For those who would like to charge a fee for their motion books, how exactly are they payed? Is it through dollars that can be withdrawn through Paypal or by check, or is it through Points?

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makepictures In reply to fedde [2014-07-10 07:44:14 +0000 UTC]

People purchase with Points. Your share goes into your "My Earnings" account.  From there you can withdraw them as dollars or Points and by check or through PayPal.

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fedde In reply to makepictures [2014-07-10 08:51:51 +0000 UTC]

Thanks, that was as I was hoping for.

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The-Night-Craft In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 07:08:32 +0000 UTC]

LOL. 40% here, 20% on the commissions Widget. Wow, what the hell is happening to this website....

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wolfshire In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:59:42 +0000 UTC]

I think this could be a fun thing to play with, but of course there is already plenty of this type of software available that doesn't take 40% of the profit. You can Google it and find tons of these kinds of books and software authoring tools. I also urge you to read the user agreement. The first section mentioned you have to be 18 or older to use their app, and being that there are so many under 18 here on deviant, well, that could be an issue. And at the bottom it said the developer is only getting 20%... that's what I read, read it yourself. So I'm guessing, don't know, but maybe deviant gets the other 20% percent? Either way, 40% is ridiculous. Actually, any percentage is ridiculous. Could you just imagine Adobe doing that. Yea, it would be the same as adobe saying you have to give them a cut for everything you ever make for Photoshop (sales). But, on the flip side, so long as you are just doing it for fun, I don't see the harm. But read it yourself, I am not interpreting, read read read it yourself, yea. Oh, and as for whether you retain all rights, there are some posts that said that question has been answered. I don't see how it was answered, I read the user agreement, and maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything mentioning retention of rights. Now deviant end user agreement says that, but not the app developers user agreement... conflict there? maybe? I don't know.

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BenWolstenholme In reply to wolfshire [2014-07-11 02:18:35 +0000 UTC]

Hi wolfshire - Madefire does not retain any ownership to your property incase that wasn't clear. Our goal is to find the right balance to ensure the Tool remains cutting edge and FREE to all - we've worked hard to find a share balance that we think is fair. An Adobe model is really different as they ask you to pay for the tool which limits the number of creators who can access it - this goes against our Creator-First philosophy. And to add - we only make some money if the creator makes money - they can put books out for free no problem! we just have t balance it all out somehow! hope you'll give it a go - thanks for listening 

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wolfshire In reply to BenWolstenholme [2014-07-11 03:34:21 +0000 UTC]

How can it be clear if it's not in writing?  It is either written in the user agreement that the artist retains rights, or it is not. A post on a forums board won't hold a teaspoon of water. Put it in writing or it doesn't exist.

I mean really, I can just hear the conversation now:

Artist: "But your Honor, some guy on the internet said so."
Judge: "Was it written in the agreement?"
Artist: "No, your Honor."
Judge: "Judgement to defendant, artist to pay $15,000 in damages."

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Katy-L-Wood In reply to wolfshire [2014-07-10 15:58:16 +0000 UTC]

But adobe does make money of your work. You still have to pay to use it which is essentially the same thing as what madefire is doing. Except instead of charging you per piece Adobe just charges overall. And madefire is ONLY charging for books you want to sell, not for everything you want to make.

Also, 40% really isn't that bad. Most services for selling ebooks or comics charge A LOT more. Sometimes authors are lucky to even get 10% of the sale of each book.

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wolfshire In reply to Katy-L-Wood [2014-07-11 03:53:04 +0000 UTC]

I can't disagree there are many horror stories. Use the royalty calculator on (name deleted because I don't want sued) and there are instances where you actually end up owing money. But, I also know places that do give the author a fair shake. It all depends.

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drawitout In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:47:48 +0000 UTC]

Cool idea, ridiculous profit cut.

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NoAngelHonestly In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:34:51 +0000 UTC]

Awesome! Sounds great

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RODCOM1000 In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:11:26 +0000 UTC]

This is fascinating! Is the motion book process also offered as a service?

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Katy-L-Wood In reply to RODCOM1000 [2014-07-10 15:58:48 +0000 UTC]

What do you mean by a service?

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RODCOM1000 In reply to Katy-L-Wood [2014-07-10 16:43:14 +0000 UTC]

Turning an existing comic into a motion comic as a service for those without the necessary computer skills.

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Katy-L-Wood In reply to RODCOM1000 [2014-07-10 16:49:47 +0000 UTC]

No, that is not something they do. You could easily hire someone who does have experience with the tool though.

However, the tool is actually very intuitive and easy to picky up. There's lots of video walk-throughs available as well, and I'm sure a lot more will be coming now that the tool is available to everyone.

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RODCOM1000 In reply to Katy-L-Wood [2014-07-10 18:47:28 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the information.

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Katy-L-Wood In reply to RODCOM1000 [2014-07-10 19:03:33 +0000 UTC]

No problem.

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MythsFlight In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:10:12 +0000 UTC]

Something I posted in response to an earlier comment but I figured it would be a bit of dig. 

This is why I think this isn't as great of a deal as the DA makes it out to be.

Say you were employed at an ice cream shop and made $10 per hour. You work 42 hours per week.
So during the average week you make $420.
Now lets say you broke your ice cream scoop one week. Another employee let you use their ice cream scoop so long as you gave them 40% for every $10 you made(pretty much what the DA is doing here)
You use the ice cream scoop all week.
At $10 per hour you would make $252 and your co-worker would get $168.

Now try doing that for an entire year.
You would normally make $20,260
Now you make $12,096 and they run off with $8,064

In the end it would have been cheaper to go and buy a $3000 diamond encrusted ice cream scoop guaranteed not to break for another 5 years.

Hopefully this will help people see why this is a bad idea unless you're using this to post free motion books. Then it's pretty awesome.

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Kiwikku In reply to MythsFlight [2014-07-10 14:35:23 +0000 UTC]

Most other publishing services cost like 50-65%.. (amazon, comixology, itunes etc)
I think it's fair: We didn't pay for the tool or the server space to host this stuff. They need to make their money somehow. 

Besides, EVERYBODY knows the real money in webcomics is the MERCHANDISE. You can almost NEVER make a living off the actual print sales of the book. In the hardback publishing world, you're lucky if you see a dollar per book.

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MythsFlight In reply to Kiwikku [2014-07-10 17:05:17 +0000 UTC]

Huh, well I guess you learn something new everyday.

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peregrinelewds In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:04:42 +0000 UTC]

great idea but they get 2/5ths of your profit? thats worse than ebay

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Plague-Doc-Matteo In reply to ??? [2014-07-10 06:02:45 +0000 UTC]

I couldn't even read this without having to come down here and mock it....who ever wrote that cheesy spiel...someone needs to tell them that there's this amazing invention out there, where pictures move! They're called "movies."         

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DeadKman In reply to Plague-Doc-Matteo [2014-07-10 06:48:46 +0000 UTC]

I got the joke but still too lame...
so, i could not just pass your comment without mock of it

do you know in comparison how hard is to make a movie against make a comic book?
...and well, one person alone can make a decent comic book on a month. A movie, in the other hand if is not 3d its almost impossible for a one man job, and even so, make a decent one in the same amount of time is absurd...
this is just a tool for regular people or skilled artist to post their comic books...


...now, why dont use a pdf or a homemade flash file? 
i think you can do that WITHOUT pay them 40%

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majormana In reply to DeadKman [2014-07-10 09:44:23 +0000 UTC]

Not really clearly yo have never tried to publish a book

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DeadKman In reply to majormana [2014-07-10 20:36:11 +0000 UTC]

First, yes i have and thats exactly my point.
Alright, yes when you publish something you get the publisher to take a percentage of your profit and around 40% maybe be fair... but thats not really the point here...

DA will not make any effort to sell your things out, or anything that justify the cost of your inversion except the fact that they let you use their half-backed tool so...
My point is, if you make your comic inside a homemade flash and put it there on your gallery under the "premium content" stuff, do you have to still pay the 40%? if not, then is 40% for use their tool

The other thing in here is that theres is different kind of users... if a professional make a comic book he may be more than pleased of pay around 40 depending of the projected sale volume and the pricing, but a kid or an amateur that just want to try to get some money for their work may see it different, yet the rule is equal for anyone, thing that even when it cant be blamed seems annoying for some people

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majormana In reply to DeadKman [2014-07-10 22:12:30 +0000 UTC]

No one on damn is really that professional of artist if where they wouldn't be green yes their are some semi professional peoples.We do have potiential to make some earnings which is very unlikely elsewhere. Is it full amount but figure da keeps 20% to help run da and other 20% to app maker its beyond fair to my thinking process especially when you tried to get hard copy published you learn a few things. You are still keep 60% which is really awesome. No one expects to get famous those of us who like the idea see it a potientially a few extra dollars a month and for some that is very appealing

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DeadKman In reply to majormana [2014-07-10 22:38:39 +0000 UTC]

Sorry but... no trying be be grammar nazi here, but its really hard to read what you write.

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majormana In reply to DeadKman [2014-07-10 22:58:43 +0000 UTC]

Sorry

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Plague-Doc-Matteo In reply to DeadKman [2014-07-10 06:57:13 +0000 UTC]

My friend you seemed to have missed the point of the joke. I'm not mocking the tool itself infact I'm quite interested in it. if I could use it to my own ends I have a comic series that would greatly translate to a motion book. 3rdeye88.deviantart.com/galler… I was mocking the cheesy sales pitch of it.

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ChronoPinoyX In reply to Plague-Doc-Matteo [2014-07-10 12:45:56 +0000 UTC]

"deviantART advertisement in a nutshell lol xD ^_^"

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Plague-Doc-Matteo In reply to ChronoPinoyX [2014-07-10 22:46:09 +0000 UTC]

Pretty much. They act like they're doing something revolutionary. I've seen this kind of thing for years, its just now there's one we all can use.

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ChronoPinoyX In reply to Plague-Doc-Matteo [2014-07-11 00:08:06 +0000 UTC]

"Funny thing is I created my deviantART account 6 years ago (my profile says I'm 6 years deviant but I have only started using this around April/May time last year) and  thought that over that time deviantART would have already developed this system because I've seen other websites with such a feature for years as well xD ^_^"

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