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Published: 2008-12-11 17:52:36 +0000 UTC; Views: 15647; Favourites: 67; Downloads: 168
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This is an alternate timeline based on if GroΓ-Deutschland had occurred in 1866-1871 as Bismarck originally wanted. This Germany did not alienate the UK as an ally, and survives to this day. It fought against fascist French, Polish, and Turks in WW2 with the US and UK.Timeline from alternatehistory.com:
This is how Europe could have evolved...
In this timeline, Germany united in 1866, against an aggressor France, with an alliance with Italy. The two powers beat France, with Germany claiming Alsace-Lorraine. Nationalist sentiment grew in Germany, and the Prussians fomented the idea in German lands in Austria. By 1871, Prussia and Austria-Hungary were at war, mostly due to the Austrian government wanting to unite its own rebellious factions like Prussia did; the Hungarians provided little support, while the Prussians, Italians, and a few regiments of Moravians and Bohemians aided Germany in defeating Austria. Austria's plan failed, and the people sided with the Prussian army in uniting with Germany. The two crowns were joined, with a German Kaiser Wilhelm I over all of Germany.
In 1888, Kaiser Friedrich III, a more liberal-minded Kaiser, came to the throne; he was an Anglophile and courted British opinon. He brought about several reforms through his reign as Kaiser. Luckily, his history of throat problems did not rob Germany of his long-sighted reforms. His son, who would later be Wilhelm II, had a safe and healthy birth, not a breech-birth as was feared by doctors. He was taught in England and Prussian schools, and learned the importance of courting world opinion as well.
Kaiser Friedrich brought universal male suffrage to Germany for the Reichstag and Reichsrat; he made the Reichsrat a representative body for the states of Germany, mostly based on the bodies that joined the Prussians a little over a decade prior. The Reichstag was modelled on representation based on the population of the state from which the representatives came. The Kaiser had limits placed on his powers; he was allowed to veto legislation that reached him, but his veto could be overridden by a 2/3 vote of both houses of the legislature. The Reichsrat was reformed so that all states in Germany would be equal, 2 Ratsleute per state. They could vote their conscience, and did not have to vote in unison. The Kanzler would report to the Kaizer, and act as president of the Reichsrat, though leaving them about their business much of the time, but lobbying them for legislation that the Kaiser felt necessary for the Reich.
With the larger Germany to contend with, France sought alliances, and found a willing partner in Russia. They formed a double alliance, and a third partner in the Ottoman Empire. The three called it the 'Triple Entente' and found themselves allied against Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Italy, and Hungary, or the 'Central Powers.'
Friedrich limited the size of the German navy, and in the treaty with England, stated the German naval power would be at a 1:3 ratio to England for 30 years, and would be used to protect her colonies in the Pacific and in Africa. This treaty helped keep Germany in the UK's good graces for the eventual wars of the 20th century. Kaiser Friedrich passed on in May 1898, having lived a long and fruitful life. His son, Wilhelm II, promised to succeed him and maintain most of his policies. He was not as liberal as his father, but did not seek to return the Kaiser to the former power it had out of lasting respect to his father.
On a fateful day in 1915, Von Albori, a governor in the Hungarian Kingdom, was assassinated by a Serb wanting independence for his people. Little did he know that his action would precipitate the first World War. The Hungarians put down the rebellion in the Serbian region; this prompted the Russians to declare war on Hungary, and France to do the same. They had been itching to get a war against Germany, and used Alsace-Lorraine as a tool in this war to urge nationalist sentiment. Later in 1916 it would be found out that France had bankrolled the Serbian group 'Free Serbia,' of which that Serbian nationalist was a member. One by one, Europe fell into war. Germany was not completely prepared, but once her war machine started, she was going full-steam. From 1915 to 1917, the Central Powers fought France on one front, Russia on the other, and the Ottomans on the third. France promised Greece, Albania, and Bulgaria back to the Ottomans in the event of success in the war. Greek Nationals, eager to protect their tiny nation, entreated the UK, Germans, even the Americans to intervene on their behalf, citing their historical ties to Constantinople, the bright light of Eastern Europe, as the rightful capital of their country.
It would be another year before the US would come into the war, President Theodore Roosevelt was busy celebrating the Panama State Canal and the Patagonian Works Project he had started. But the French made a terrible mistake; they shot down a neutral American ship with their submarines that was sailing for England, which had 20 Quebeckers from the state of East Quebec, and 95 Americans from Franklin, Durango, Texas, Florida, Cuba, Jamaica, and Jefferson (OTL Guiana/Suriname). President Roosevelt was outraged, as was the country. The US declared war on France; Russia on the US shortly thereafter, and then the US on the Ottomans and Russians.
The next year found the Americans fighting in Europe, and limited engagements in the Pacific as well. The tide was turning on the Triple Entente, and by 1919, France, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire surrendered. President Roosevelt, striking against revanchism and against the independence movement, citing that benevolent democratic empires and republics held the best hope for people in representing their needs. What would Europe do if it fell into a number of small, squabbling, barely sustainable race-based countries? They may govern their own race, but race was something America had taken care of in its own civil war, and Europe should take note of that, in TR's opinion. Prime Minister D Lloyd George, President Roosevelt, Kaiser Wilhelm II, King Emmanuel III, and King Maximilian Njegovan I of Hungary met to decide the fate of the defeated powers.
The Treaty of Versailles placed blame for the war solely on France, and put harsh measures against them:
*Alsace-Lorraine would be ceded to Germany. France yielded all claim to that Reichsland.
*France paid Germany 80 billion RM.
*Nice, Savoy, and Corsica would be ceded to Italy.
*France's colonial Empire would be divided between Germany, the United Kingdom, Italy, and the Netherlands.
*France would lease the channel ports to Germany for 99 years.
*The Seine and the Rhone would become internationalized and France would not be allowed to patrol them.
The French army was limited to 135.000 men and conscription would be abolished. No heavy artillery and other heavy equipment was allowed. Chemical weapons were also forbidden.
*The manufacture, import, and export of weapons and poison gas was prohibited.
*The French would demilitarize the area between the German border and the river Meuse.
The Ottoman Empire was to be broken up, with Greece gaining Cyprus, Cilicia, Constantinople, and all Ottoman provinces facing the Aegean Sea. They gained a portion of OTL Albania and Bulgaria for their roles in supporting the Ottomans.
Humiliated and defeated, France could do little but sign; their partner Russia, had fallen out of the war due to the Communist Revolution there, and the resultant founding of the Soviet Union. For the next decade, inflation, economic and political turmoil, and the eventual global depression would allow the rise of what would be called fascist parties in France, led by Phillipe Petain. The leftist Petain appealed to the nationalist, socialist, and Napoleonic urges in his country. His platform as proclaimed in 1923:
*the restoration of France's territory up to the Rhine, including Alsace-Lorraine, Nice, Savoy, and Corsica.
*abrogation of the Versailles treaty
*only a member of the French race could be a citizen of France; no Arab or Jew could be a member of the French people (he blamed the Germans, and in a great part, the Ottomans for the loss of WW1)
...and so on including seizure of war profits, nationalization of industry, old age welfare, freedom of religion so long as it doesn't undermine French security, national education program, state mandated health and nutrition guidelines, government guidelines and funding of the press, etc. Eventually, Petain would become more anti-semitic in his rhetoric, citing European Jews as the source of the problems of France in the war.
He would eventually outlaw the communist party in France, citing it a 'dangerous plot' against France. By 1933 he had staged a coup in the Third Republic allowing him to seize total power. He managed to abrogate a number of personal freedoms, and was declared Emperor of the Third Empire of France. His actions alarmed some Germans and Italians, but their governments were more concerned with internal matters than France's saber-rattling. In 1937, however, France had been building its military for four years with First Citizen Petain. PM Chamberlain met with Petain in Paris, and came back with a document declaring '
France took Alsace-Lorraine, and began escalating its demands...Nice, Savoy, and so on. Petain was getting what he wanted, and thought he should get more. Russia was not siding with its old ally France, but France met with old Russian-Polish sympathizers in Poland. They got past their army size limits by shipping young Frenchmen to Poland to train as a 'volunteer corps' increasing the French forces by 500,000 in four years. The leaders and intelligentsia in Poland eagerly bought into the French anti-semitic rhetoric, and the two parties concluded a secret alliance. France and Poland eventually met in Warsaw to discuss their 'Ultimate Solution,' with Petain, de Gaulle, and other Polish leaders meeting. Such talk frightened a number of Jewish people in Germany, leading Albert Einstein and others to leave Germany for the US. By 1939, France had convinced Turkey that if they allied, they would gain back their former lands the Ottoman Empire had held. Attaturk was brought into the Paris-Warsaw axis, which also brought Japan as well. By the end of 1939, France struck with its "Guerre de Foudre" or "lightning war," and was tearing through Spain, Germany, and Italy. They violated Belgian neutrality and struck into Germany. The second world war had begun. Poland struck at East and West Prussia in the north, and the Kingdom of Hungary in the south. Europe was now at war.
Italy, Germany, Greece, and the United Kingdom joined together as the Allied Powers against France and Poland, with Russia joining after the Polish and French attacked them. After two years, Paris was bombing London nightly; Berlin was reeling from a two-pronged attack on Prussia and the Rheinland. Greece was hanging on for dear life against the Ottomans, and Japan was marching through China. Japan made a fatal mistake when it attacked the US at Pearl Harbor, awakening the sleeping Giant. President Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. stirred the nation to war, and brought America to war in a big way. In Europe, Allied Command struck into French Africa and from England; in the Pacific, German Samoa and New Guinea. Island hopping was the only way the Americans, Australians, British, and Germans could make progress in the Pacific. Colonel Von Streuben, descended from the same named person who aided America's own revolution, fought valiantly in the Pacific with the American commander there.
Making some if little progress, the Allies found the tide turning after large French success in sweeping Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, and Italy. The Allied Command met in secret in Persia to discuss the outcome of post-war Europe. Germany demanded all of Alsace, Lorraine, Belfort, and Brey from France, and to reconstitute South and New East Prussia from Poland. France would cede Nord Pas-de-Colais to Belgium, and Flanders would become part of the Netherlands. France would be occupied and de-Petain-ed. Greece would gain Anatolia to roughly a straight line with Cilicia.
After the Allied invasion at Normandy, and the Italian Strike, France found itself losing ground. They began a scorched earth policy in their retreat, to make sure the Allies didn't have an easy time following. Russian, British, Greek, and American forces struck the Ottomans through Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Georgia, reversing their gains, and heading for Ankara. By January 1945, the Ottomans surrendered, June, the French also. Poland followed in July 9. Japan held out until September, after the US dropped two atom bombs. Once the Emperor of Japan surrendered, World War 2 was over. Europe was redrawn at Reykjavik, and the major powers signed the treaty.
After the expulsion of the Poles from Posen (now South Prussia) and from New East Prussia, the Germans and Americans found out the rumors of concentration camps had been true. Poland and France had been shipping Jewish Europeans to death camps. Russia had turned a blind eye as well. International Outrage brought renewed impetus to the Zionist movement, and in the redrawing of the middle east, a Jewish Homeland was created in the British Mandate. The German mandate gave the Kurds their own land, and the Palestinian Arabs got their own homeland as well. Germans and British evacuated all Arabs from the Jewish homeland into what was to be the Palestinian Arab homeland. Russia, for its part in this, was forced to give the Volga Germans an independent province, or risk war with the US and German and the UK. Volgaland was granted independence in 1946, and immediately held US, British, and German troops there for protection against the communists.
France and Poland were forced to take responsibility for the attempted Holocaust against the Jews. Warsaw was de-Pole-d, and incorporated into South Prussia. They funded the moving of Jewish families who wished to emigrate to the Jewish Homeland, now called Israel. Greece's expanded territory saw the evacuation of the remaining Turks, and the allowance of resettlement by the Greek people across historically Greek land. All Islamic artifacts from Constantinople were carefully shipped to the new Turkish capital at Erzurum. The Ottoman features of the city were taken down, and the Hagia Sophia was restored as a Christian monument, open to the public in 1952. Italy was granted its old area of Carthage, from Tunisia and French Africa, both hotbeds of Fascist support. The native populations were expelled and Italians resettled.
In 1948, Russia had staged communist coups in several east European states, including Poland. The Baltics, Ukraine, Bulgaria, all fell to the red tide. American-German airlifts kept Lublin, the new capital afloat until the Soviets stopped their barricade. The Polish occupation zones of the American, German, and British forces were united into West Poland, while the Russians created East Poland. In France, the US got Aquitaine, the Germans got North France, UK got Normandy-Brittany, and the Italians occupied Burgundy. Each occupation zone was de-Petain-ed, and was allowed to vote to become independent or confederate with France, which meant retaining a large deal of autonomy, but allowing free travel and a few other concerns to coordinate with Paris. Portions of Aquitaine rejoined France, but Aquitaine itself voted to confederate in 1949, Burgundy in 1950, and Brittany-Normandy in 1953.
The 1948 Chinese War was fought between Russian insurgents, Chinese communists, and Chinese nationalists aided by Germany, the UK, and the US, based on former occupation-trade zones from the late 19th century. By the end of 1948, North China fell communist, and South China was a Democratic state under Chang Kai-shek. The first free elections in 1952 proved that the American-British forces were not needed to ensure free elections, when Kai-shek was re-elected by a slim margin, though his party gained only a slight majority in the Chinese legislature. The Korean War, started by North Chinese communists was fought by Korean communists against British-American forces in 1950-52. The Americans and British fought all the way to the Chinese border, when the Korean communists sued for peace. The surrender on December 18 brought the Korean Civil War to rest, with Kim Il-Sung being hung for treason and terrorism. The Republic of Korea remains a prosperous, democratically elected republic to this day.
Later in the 50s, communists attempted coups in Southeast Asia, funded by the Soviet Union. The US committed forces in limited engagements under Eisenhower, which escalated under Nixon in 1962. Vice President Pierre St. Germaine (from East Quebec), a staunch anti-communist spoke forcefully at the NATO Summit in London regarding the need to prevent the fall of Vietnam under the Domino Theory. Germany, which had its own experience with communism and other leftist ideologies, voted to aid the American effort, and sent two brigades. From 1962 to 1965, the Vietnam War waged with the British and Italians joining in 1964. By the end, the Americans and their Allies had routed the communists and vowed to protect the country as it set up a democratic government. It took eighteen years before the Americans could pull out, but it eventually sent the last men home by 1983 under President Reagan.
1961 saw the Lublin Wall go up, dividing the capital in half, and separating it from the rest of Poland. West Poland's capital was moved to Rasom, while East Poland, a completely communist state, kept Lublin. Greece began to thrive in the last 20 years, with American naval and millitary bases, and German vacationers to the now Christian city of Constantinople. Germany was enjoying prosperity from its colonies, now called Reich Territories. German citizenship was extended on a limited basis, provided the person could speak German, and the territories were allowed limited self-government. German companies invested in German Afrika and Asia, bringing unbridled prosperity to those areas. British Africa flourished due to the Trans-African railroad through East Africa, and British West Africa.
By 1989, the Soviet Union was collapsing, the Lublin Wall fell, and the Volga Germans were able to travel via rail to Germany again. Finland annexed the rest of the peninsula it occupied with little Russian resistance. Poles separated by 20+ years could walk across Lublin to see one another. Europe began healing old rifts as former communist governments fell and were replaced by democratically elected ones. The leftist, communist forces were replaced by right-of-center (in the American terminology), free-market, personal liberty advocates. State control was discredited, as was the old socialist welfare systems under the communists. Free market investment of retirements took off across Europe, and into England as well. Europe began to integrate its currency under the proposed Euromark, started by Germany. The Hansebank system in Germany spread to free Poland and other countries, including African Italy and Asian Greece. By 2008, the European Community is beginning the process of economic union, with a common European Defense Network centered in Berlin.
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Comments: 49
squiggledog [2016-10-12 07:22:55 +0000 UTC]
It looks like all the current forded still exist though.
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Easycompany506 [2016-07-28 13:39:20 +0000 UTC]
This is cool. What did you use to draw the map?
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doliwaq [2013-04-17 19:30:54 +0000 UTC]
"Poland and France had been shipping Jewish Europeans to death camps" xD hahaha, oh its so funny!
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victory1945 [2011-02-22 19:36:21 +0000 UTC]
i like this i also like the history as well.
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iternallife [2010-06-18 20:47:04 +0000 UTC]
Like always the Turks attack us, Well after 5 centuries we'll free ourselves again
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Panov [2010-04-18 13:46:27 +0000 UTC]
Awesome, Macedonia is free from Turkish occupation but the Greeks are still getting nailed! I love you man!
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CaptainVoda In reply to Panov [2010-08-22 22:11:48 +0000 UTC]
Actually the purple is Greece...
And dont be anti-hellenist
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Panov In reply to CaptainVoda [2010-08-23 10:04:07 +0000 UTC]
Haha awesome! We are getting nailed by the Greeks after all lol
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SkyinOd [2010-03-25 19:22:57 +0000 UTC]
Can I tell you that Belgium would never give up Flanders because a few reasons:
1) that meant that Belgium would lose Antwerp, known as the loaded gun pointing at London, and the most important boost for Belgian economy,
2) No nation would want to give up half it's territory because they won the war.
3) Belgium would have a hard time with all those French people rebelling against them
4)Although Flanders and Holland speak basically the same language, they would not feel comfortable in an union with Holland, because the simple fact they are different on every other point.
I suggest not touch the original borders of these countries. You'd get problems otherwise. With the credibility.
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p0jar [2010-02-05 21:57:16 +0000 UTC]
The one thing I can't understand is why did you draw Hungary with half a Romania included? Who gave you the ideea? The rest I can understand and it's actually interesting.
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jas09 In reply to p0jar [2010-03-02 22:40:43 +0000 UTC]
Seeing as how Hungary didn't get smacked with the Treaty of Trianon in this timeline, it would make sense that they have more territory.
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p0jar In reply to jas09 [2010-07-20 13:53:46 +0000 UTC]
If you want to really find the answer you should digg deeper. Just a hint Daco-Roman wars 101-102 a.Ch 105-106 a.Ch
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TheGreatMC [2010-01-27 10:16:29 +0000 UTC]
The biggest flaw of this history-based fanfic is your inability to question the significance of key events from our timeline - leading to a hypothetical situation where new path of events relies entirely on swapping and substituting the 'authors' of given events. Versailles treaty and fall of communism in 1989 were taken by you for granted, showing quite clearly that you have not bothered to go PAST the key turning points, preffering to fix them in your timeline as a construction frame for alternate history.
France carrying out the holocaust? Give me a break...
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jas09 In reply to TheGreatMC [2010-03-02 22:39:20 +0000 UTC]
"France carrying out the holocaust? Give me a break."
Why? Because you think the French are "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" who couldn't carry out a genocide because they would surrender once the would-be victims started to show defiance?
Besides, the events common to both this world and ours gave the 20th century its flavor, and it would be hard to imagine them not happening, regardless of who caused them to happen.
Overall score: pointless bitching.
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TheGreatMC In reply to jas09 [2010-03-02 23:04:19 +0000 UTC]
Just brief example of what would make this version of timeline crumble:
-author has stated that as a result of loss in the first world war France has been stripped off colonial empire. Now, a person with at least some basic comprehension of that era could have pointed out that France and its entire industry relied heavily on resources obtained from French colonies. Sudden lack of this supply base would have resulted in an economical disaster far worse than the one which occured within Germany after WWI, leaving France crippled for entire decades - effectively ruling out eventual conquest on the trans-european scale.
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knights--dawn In reply to TheGreatMC [2010-10-12 22:39:39 +0000 UTC]
France could carry out a hocust just as much as Germans did. It was this that unified my country to war all those years ago. Do not base the morality of everyone on your high opinions of your people. Also, how is taking the French Colonies any different than taking German Colonies away. Are you forgetting German China, German Africa, and even German South American Interests.
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TheGreatMC In reply to knights--dawn [2010-10-13 07:50:29 +0000 UTC]
Try comparing iternal industrial (as well as the sole aspect of manpower) potential of France and Germany of that time. There is NO chance that gradually ruined France could have made any success against such reinforced, scientifically advanced and externally supported Germany of this hypothetical timeline.
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knights--dawn In reply to TheGreatMC [2010-10-14 04:04:54 +0000 UTC]
But, that is what people thought of Germany. If you forget, the main industrial area in all of Germany are the Ruhr valley and Berlin. France has Paris, Lille, Lyon, Bordeaux, Marseille, and Metz (though that would belong to Germany in this timeline)
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TheGreatMC In reply to knights--dawn [2010-10-14 09:02:13 +0000 UTC]
Yes, that would work out... if it were to happen... let's say... NOW.
Please notice that the author of this alternate timeline has gone to great lengths in order to assure that German path preceeding WWII was one of near-constant success. At the same time France, at that time with comparably lesser potential goes through every single hardsip that was imposed on Germany itself. Now, as far as I recall, potential of Third Reich was actually lesser than the one of pre-WWI Germany... and it was still sufficient to deal tremendous amounts of damage. Now try to imagine what potential this particular alternate Germany had before alternate WWII.
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KidSapiens In reply to TheGreatMC [2011-03-02 01:17:37 +0000 UTC]
*laughs and eats popcorn*
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TheGreatMC In reply to KidSapiens [2011-03-02 07:49:51 +0000 UTC]
Sadly, that line of discussion has become arid for way too long.
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KidSapiens In reply to KidSapiens [2011-03-02 01:18:15 +0000 UTC]
Sorry, I was just laughing at the fight. And eating popcorn. I always do that. I can tell this is an old argument. Who won?
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TheGreatMC In reply to KidSapiens [2011-03-02 08:51:00 +0000 UTC]
Answer: Noone, save for a few who came here for brief entertainment.
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TheGreatMC In reply to jas09 [2010-03-02 22:52:48 +0000 UTC]
You are still basing your statement on the assumption that the 'key' events actually WOULD have happened in alternate timelines as well, regardless of the 'a priori' settings. Simply speaking, you are just submitting authors mistakes as your own opinion.
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TheGreatMC In reply to TheGreatMC [2010-01-27 10:19:04 +0000 UTC]
Overall score: utter timewaste.
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jas09 [2009-12-22 01:00:55 +0000 UTC]
BTW, you should provide a link to this on related deviations so people know what's going on.
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jas09 [2009-12-15 03:02:34 +0000 UTC]
I spy a contradiction. At the start of the timeline, you state that Alsaice-Lorraine was claimed by Germany in 1866. But in the part covering the Treaty of Versailles, you say that Alsaice-Lorraine is ceded to Germany, implying that France still owned the region up until that time. Could you explain this?
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Arminius1871 [2009-12-11 21:56:05 +0000 UTC]
This story is awesome! I think, if Germany had won world war 1., everything would have come better. The old cultur-nation Germany, the home of Beethoven, Mozart, Goethe, Einstein and many other geniuses, would have become a peaceful and great leader for Europa!
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Tikiyachod In reply to Arminius1871 [2017-12-29 12:54:00 +0000 UTC]
Absolutely!!!
Everything will be flowers and love if German Kaiserreich won the First Great War!!!
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Arminius1871 In reply to Tikiyachod [2017-12-29 21:42:04 +0000 UTC]
Naja noone is perfect XD I say better, but not perfect.
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machine3589 [2009-09-13 17:53:33 +0000 UTC]
I think you are missing parts of Poland, South Tirol and Istria that could be essentially added to the greater German Empire. Plus it seems to me you are missing chunks of Belgium and Denmark, and your other map seems to have a region of Croatian territory you have decided to leave out here.
And the exsistance of Slovakia is very unlikely with the birth of a "Great Hungary". And aiding the Croats in having their own Great Country could be very useful in the war against Serbia in WW1.
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hortrorog In reply to machine3589 [2010-05-06 01:44:34 +0000 UTC]
[link]
Hungary before WW1...
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machine3589 In reply to hortrorog [2010-05-06 06:36:56 +0000 UTC]
Actually, thats the Hungarian Kingdom before WW1. You know, the country that had Serb, Croat, Romanian, Ruthene, Austrian and Slovak populated lands incorporated into it.
And what was your point anyway?
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hortrorog In reply to machine3589 [2010-05-06 16:30:10 +0000 UTC]
i thought you did not know that Hungary was bigger than today
Some ppl dont even know where are Hungary...
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Tytek [2009-05-08 21:12:00 +0000 UTC]
Nice,really nice.
May I ask why the hell you put Poland in Axis?
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MustacheMan14 [2009-05-08 01:09:56 +0000 UTC]
Very intriguing.....I mean all this happening is alot of work for you to do.I congradulate you for a job well done
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finalverdict [2009-01-01 21:19:14 +0000 UTC]
Nice!
I guess the key of this alternate history is on Kaiser Frederick III. His death mark the beginning of the end of the German Empire, the outbreak of two world wars, and the rising of United States as super power.
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