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jollyjack — This Deal Is Getting Worse All The Time
#lucas #star #starwars #wars
Published: 2018-01-26 00:00:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 48467; Favourites: 1211; Downloads: 366
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It would explain a lot.Related content
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The best argument about why George Lucas shouldn't be considered the "father" of Star Wars: he didn't directed Empire Strikes Back, it was one of his friends.
And when he saw, he fired said friend from Return of the Jedi, put someone else, just to make sure that the movie would sell more toys.
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Oh yeah, there's still so many hardcore Lucas fans that credit the success of the original trilogy to him when he really doesn't deserve it. He may have conceived of the idea and got the ball rolling, but I can tell even as far back as New Hope that the common writing/directing flaws that plagued the prequels so much were already present in the original trilogy--they just don't show as obviously, because Lucas allowed a lot more outside input from the rest of the production staff to help nudge him away from what would've been his grosser mistakes, including the actors themselves (they all had stories talking about some bonehead lines Lucas was originally giving him before they convinced him to drop them). From what I hear about some of the things Lucas was throwing in before other production staff talked him out of it, the less confidence I have in his writing abilities, and to an extent, his directing as well.
The sequel trilogy may not have won over all Star Wars fans, but there's no doubt in my mind that it's still in better hands now than it would've been had it been left in Lucas's care.
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The biggest problem is all of the build up in Episode 7 that has zero payoff in Episode 8
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Well that was kind of the point. It was suppose to show us that all the stuff we thought was important, like Rey's parents and Snook weren't really that important. What matters are the characters and how they deal with their flaws and inner demons. That was the problem with the prequels, they were more like info dumps than actual movies that focused on characters. And if you dare whine that they didn't give Snook a back story, then you have to tell me what back story they gave the emperor in the original movies. And the extended universe doesn't count, I want to know what they told us in the first three movies about the Emperor.
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The prequels are still pretty bad, especially Jar Jar. I swear if George Lucas made The Phantom Menace in 2015, people would be looking at it very differently.
Old Star Wars fan (1999): Holy fuck. Jar Jar Binx is really annoying and a horrible racist caricature of black people.
Same Star Wars fan (2015): Ha ha! Look at those SJW-snowflakes whining about Jar Jar Binx being racist towards the blacks.
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Legend has it that the only thing that truly saved the original trilogy from George's meanderings were the hours that Martha Lucas (George's ex-wife) spent editing the films.
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I read that some of the deleted scenes cut from the first film were really bad, which puts a lot into perspective. George Lucas benefits from other inputs. He's no auteur. The prequels proved it. I never saw The Clone Wars series but I heard it got better over time to the point of even genuinely great, not just avoiding things that made the prequel trilogy bad.
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I liked the prequels. I hate the new movies.
*shrugs* to each their own I guess.
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I never thought the prequels were that bad.
That said, I was never all that invested in the old Star Wars EU, either, and a lot of hate seems to stem from that section of the franchise no longer being "canon", even if it was never fully official.
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I never managed to watch beyong "The Phantom Menace"
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So . . . Not a fan of the Last Jedi?
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But.. they weren't bad. Least no more bad then the OT, the Overrated Trilogy, at any rate.
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See, their plan Is working
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After Seeing TLJ I can say I won't see anymore.
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Well, ain't that just the darndest thing.
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These movies are getting worse all the TIME!
And don't even get me started how much of a cop out it was for the princess to just pull herself out of deep space and survive or how Luke just fucking keels over and dies from exhaustion after just using a force mirage ability. Plus there was that whole badly written shlock with Rose(I THINK. Was that even her name?) and Finn wasting all that time having a dumb love story instead of actually SAVING the rebellion. Ugh.
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OH come on. The Last Jedi wasn't bad. Not perfect, but not the WORST MOVIE EVER. BI
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Like that "BI" you used. Never crossed my mind while typing in faces on my keyboard. 8o
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I've always found it pretty weird how DC fans got a slew of horrible movies and rallied behind them like they were masterpieces, while Star Wars fan got some pretty good movies overall and seem to despise them. It's kind of interesting.
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Shit that would make sense but I doubt it.
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I'm starting to think people just don't like things that are new, regardless of quality. Nostalgia is such a big deal nowadays, anything which infringes on those warm fuzzy feelings is immediately rejected.
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Never held on to "nostalgia" as much as other fans. Different times, different directions. JW was clearly the best sequel out the other two.
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Looking at Force Awakens and Last Jedi as purely stand-alone movies: they have terrible storytelling and an overload of charmless characters. They're mediocre films even before you start highlighting how much potential they're wasting in terms of the brand.
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....eh. I honestly don't see where all the hatred stems from. I'll agree, the sequel trilogy so far has some rough spots, if I had my druthers I'd definitely edit a few things, but over all I think it carries on the spirit of the series just fine.
I truly believe a great deal of the bitterness stems from the fact that so much of the old EU canon has been omitted. When you talk about "how much potential they're wasting" I can't help but feel like you're really saying "I wish they'd used *old EU character x* instead of Poe Dameron". Quite frankly I think a great deal of the old EU was just clutter.
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I'm perplexed by them axing the entire EU (simply so they can revive Chewie), but that's not what I'm talking about with "wasting brand potential". What I mean there is that they're pumping out product with no real care for quality, knowing that it'll sell simply because it's got the Star Wars label on it. The same argument can be levelled at something like Jurassic World: that was a DEEPLY sh*t movie, with mediocre characters and plot, just like the recent Star Wars movies. The only reason it was pushed out the door, the only reason people went to see it, was because it had the Jurassic Park label.
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To be fair, they didn't ax the entire EU, a lot of it has been saved/salvaged (and I think the motive behind resurrecting Chewie is because with Ford wanting to be killed off, they had to at least have one member of the duo)
I totally get where you're coming from, I think many would agree that Hollywood's obsession with brand & title franchising is getting out of hand. That said, I think it's a bit unfair at this early stage to say that they're being lazy with Star Wars. The time between saga films is the exact same as when Lucas was churning out the prequels (which have always held a reputation for being lazy, assembly line, products), and I fully believe that they were both very carefully crafted to the best of the director's abilities. You can say that it's all by committee now, but how is it worse than Lucas by himself? I would take eps 7&8 any day over the prequels. The idea that somehow, Star Wars wasn't a product until Disney stepped in, is folly.
I think perhaps people are projecting their distaste for the Hollywood machine onto Star Wars, even though it's just one of many franchises like it. The only difference is, yes it sells itself, because the universe and the audience are already expansive, unlike Jurassic Park (which I agree has gotten really sh*tty)
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Oh, the prequels were still bad. Just not as bad as they could have been.
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definately food for thought.
though why does it make me suspect Jar Jar gets his own series? (where we see he's not as foolish as the prequels had him - or it explains how he ended up like that)
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Why does everyone hate the prequels? :/
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The simplest answer* is that they were not as well written. The detailed answer is that film goers got a hell of a lot more savvy since 1980....and thus GL making the prequels like his old films wasn't up to modern snuff. By 1970-1980 snuff. Byt that I mean in 1970/80 the story was central and effects secondary; thus if it had been released then the average movie goer might have overlooked the plot holes and would have rated the prequels better.
*ther eis more to this answer obviously as this is a summary.
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Okay, as someone who's enjoyed all the Star Wars movies (Original, Prequels and Sequels), I have one thing to say to the haters.
If you don't like it, you can leave the fandom. And don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us will sit back with out popcorn.
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You can leave first. The fandom has no room for exclusionists; to tell SW fans to leave because they dislike a part of the fandom demonstrates that you clearly dont understand the normal standards of the fandom.
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I've been in the Fandom all my life. I grew up with the original trilogy and the Cartoons, lived through the Special Edition, got furious with the Prequels, then warmed up to them after the Clone Wars cartoons. I've read the comics from original Marvel, Dark House and New Marvel.
I was even born in 1977, when A New Hope first came out. You think the SW Fandom is your Ally? I was born into Star Wars. Molded By It. I didn't learn to criticize it until I was already a man. Don't talk to me about "the normal standards of the fandom." I was in the trenches of the Prequel Forum Wars. And we had stuff like Baby Ani, Jar Jar Binks and Midichlorians to complain about.
This? This complaining about how the new movies are "violating" what the original trilogy did? This is nothing. We've gotten two awesome movies with a great new cast, and people are whining about how their Post-TLJ Fanfics are no longer canon. Gimme a break.
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