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K9-The-First In reply to telayla [2009-08-18 18:08:57 +0000 UTC]

Well, this was just for TEH LULZ.

Oh, like no one else was thinking it. *rolls eyes* Of course, now that he's dead, these jokes seem kinda tackless.

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-01 22:02:10 +0000 UTC]

Oh good! I'm glad your one of us that tries not to get to far into Serious Business.

I guess you're kinda like us over at the Caps_Lock Zutara thread at LJ: See an insult from the other side, then make it a positive of yourself.

That's how we got "Zootards". ^_^

Anyway, as to Kataang: I can see what the appeal of a Sickly-Sweet Ship could be. I've shiped my share of them myself. However, usually they're still the same age, or at least with a minimal distance that makes it hard to tell whose older, as well as the fact that one's interaction with the other doesn't strike me as parental. (Admit it, Katara has a tendency to treat Aang more like a child then a significant other. Even Bryke made sure to note this in the Book I Finale commentary. During the Zuko/Katara Duel at the end of Part One.)

Personally, I'm more of a Complementary/Yin-Yang/Opposites Attract Shipper. From Benedict and Beatrice from Much Ado About Nothing and Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet from Pride and Prejudice, to Raven and Beast Boy from Teen Titans to Zuko and Katara with Toph and Aang from Avatar, I like my ships to start out fighting, and end with make-outs.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-01 22:25:22 +0000 UTC]

Oh, it's quite obvious Katara treats Aang as more of a child than a potential love interest for the first two seasons. But I think that after COD it became clear to her that he meant (almost) everything to her. Plus, he matures a LOT during the third season.

If you think about it, Aang and Katara are more opposites than Katara/Zuko. (other than nations/elements of course)


-Aang is really against arguments or disagreements and tries to sort them out and flow with them instead of pushing back.
-Katara is a hothead who goes headstrong into anyone who even remotely seems against her or standing in her way. Intense that her belief is the right one.
-Zuko is also a passionate hothead who strives for his goals and fights for his side zealously.

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-01 22:49:44 +0000 UTC]

It's ture that Aang matures throughout Season Three, but I still think he's got more to do before he's at Katara's level. Like in the Ember Island Players, I don't think Aang quite understood that Lip Rape was a bad idea until after he did it. And I got "Temper Tantrum" vibes in the first part of Sozin's Comet when he was asking for ways to beating Ozai that didn't involved killing him, when it was pretty obvious to me that it was a situation where he couldn't have it both ways. Which in a way leads to what I think of his choice to take away Ozai's bending and how hypocritical it seemed to me.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-02 20:01:04 +0000 UTC]

EIP- Tch, tch tch, the creators f**ked up with this episode... If they hadn't put it in, it would have prevented 80% of all the shipping wars. That WAS a serious blow to Aang's maturity, but overall I think the season was a vast improvement.

About killing Ozai... It's perspective, we'll never understand living for 13 years of life with that belief being part of who you are. It's like being a vegan for all your life then being pressured by your friends to eat meat: It's going to set you off!

And about ways of stopping him that didn't involve it, were any of them serious? Every single person in that room was convinced that the only way to stop Ozai was to kill him.

And hypocritical how may I ask?

(By the way, I think we should probably wrap this up, As much as I enjoy debates that don't involve "LOL WUT KATAANG IS FER NUBS", I think there comes a point where it veers from intelligent to head-bashing, and we're getting awfully close to that line.)

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-03 03:03:18 +0000 UTC]

(I couldn't agree more. But I feel like we've already droped the "Kataang vs Zutara stuff, and are exploring genuinly interesting discussion. But still: We must be cautious.)

Yep. And if what I've heard about the "Air Book Pairings" was right, they seemed to've been disproportionately mocking of Zutara. Now, I only saw the vid to the first scene with Katara and Aang. I stoped there. Not because it's Kataang, but because-from the dialogue-I could tell where it was going.

And I agree. Plus, still trying to fiend a less violent solution when everyone around you is saying you have to kill the other guy, and said guy is trying even harder to kill you then you are trying not to, that takes great personal strength. However: Sometimes, being strong in one or two aspects, can make you weak in others. Like with Ozai and his need to kill anyone who disagreed with him instead of trying to compromise. Infact, I can almost see Aang becoming as bad as Ozai/Sozin himself. Albeit on the completly opposite end of the scale. Now please keep in mind that I am in no way an Aang-Hater. However, if properly written, I can enjoy a one-shot that deconstructs a protagonist and highlights and explores their negative traits. Tragically, considering that the authors of said fics may more often than not be haters themselves, quality writing is anything but a given. -_-

But there's also one thing that I think most people forget: In the southern Air Temple... Where did all those skeletons around Monk Gyatso come from? To me, it heavily implies that Monk Gyatso killed them all, and succumbed to his injuries. So maybe the taking of a life in defeanse is not as horrable as Aang seems to have been taught. One would assume that the World would be more important than a few dozen fleeing monks and younglings.

As to "Hypocritical." Well, the way Avatar Society works in my little goard is that bending is almost sacred in daily life-it's used in transportation, industry, religious ceremonies-and it would seem to me that messing with that would be considered blasphemous on the worst scale. I'll admit that I'm still working on what the Lion-Turtle was about. Bryke fails at important forshadowing.

Think of Aang taking away Ozai's bending like this: Imagine that, instead of shooting himself, Hitler was captured by the Alies. Taking Ozai's bending in my mind was equivalent to the Alied Leaders saying "Well Mister Hilter, we don't want to just kill you, so instead we'll just strap you down to a table and hack off your genitals without anasthetic, and then plop you in the local jail! ^_^"

Granted that may seem a bit extream, but I feel that Aang seemed to've oversteped his boundaries. Plus, even if it was perfectly fine, it would only work on Benders. What if Aang was in the same situation, but against Non-Benders? You can't take away what's not there.

Also, the Lion-Turtle said that before the four arts, people regularly bent their own energies. With that fact, the logical destination would be that whatever Aang did, any sufficiently malevolent spirit with suitable motivation *coughkohcough* would be able to undo. Or almost as bad, with enough medatation, Ozai-in theory-could regain his bending, putting Aang and the rest of the world right where it was.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-03 21:37:10 +0000 UTC]

I'm not familiar with the Air Books (or maybe I just don't remember what the hell they were), so I have no comment in this section .

If Aang is on the total opposite side of the scale (E.G. not killing people), how does that make him bad? In fact, wouldn't that make him a near-saint?

I noticed the first time I watched the episode that he DID in fact kill. But remember, Aang and Gyatso are two different people... Both of the same belief, true, but that doesn't mean just because Gyatso would kill if necessary, that it would be easy for Aang to do it. Aang never said he refused to kill him, he just tried his hardest to find a different way to stop him.

Bending is important, true. But I'm pretty sure Ozai was more afraid of death than non-bending... and what about Sokka, you don't see him creating massive waves of water. Or Mai, she can totally wreck **** without bending. It's important, but not as important as life (Especially to the selfish ones as Ozai. Remember, "All life is sacred"

While the part about fighting non-benders is true, you can't honestly say Non-benders are as big of a threat as a full-fledged fire lord. (Look at Iroh for example, he would have NEVER escaped prison without his Fire.)Benders are significantly more dangerous than non-benders (save a few, and even then they could be bested by good benders.)

The Lion Turtle didn't disclose the information to the world. Just Aang, the trusty Avatar. No one knows how or if access to the spirit world from non-avatars is possible. In order to take a stab at this type of debate, we'd need to know a little bit more.

It's safe to say Ozai is never going to be a threat ever again.

Reason 1) Aang fought him decently even with Ozai's 100x power. The Avatar state kicked his ass, Aang is now a fully fledged Avatar with unlimited access to the state.
Reason 2) Military, the Fire-Nation seemed willing to leave the war and follow Zuko. Entering a war isn't fun, and the cost of millions of lives just isn't worth it. In order for Ozai to escape, they (rebels) would need to attack a prison in the dead center of the FN capital. And even then, I'm not so sure they could withstand the combined might of the Fire Nation military, the Avatar, AND the Water and Earth tribe/kingdom (Who would definantly help, if but to stop a new war from starting.)
Reason 3) Even if Ozai regained bending, it would take him a long time to regain his full potential, you'd think someone during this time would notice and think "Oh hey, he's making fire, maybe we should tell someone."

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-04 00:42:50 +0000 UTC]

There are no air books, just a gag vid from a recent Comic Con-it made fun of shippers. It should be on YouTube.

Not really. Not killing isn't a bad thing in theory, that sort of thing should always be kept as a last resort. ...Unless your refusal to kill someone who deserves it caused the death of an innocent(Child, Bystander, Hostage, etc). Directly or not. Extremes are always bad, regaurdless as to what the philosephy is. The really bad aspect comes in when/if he denies any and/or all responsability. As the saying goes: All it takes for Evil to prevail, is for Good Men to do nothing.

Perhaps, but one would think that a monk that has spent some 60+ years meditating on the meaning of their laws would have a better understanding of just what they mean and how they apply to life practicly then a twelve year-old monk who has only been told said laws, and right now only parrots them out without really, really thinking about them.

In The Southern Raiders for example, Aang basically lectured Katara in a somewhat condescending way about how she felt about Yon Rah, as though she was some inicient at the Air Temples. He didn't seem to realize that it was never about revenge for Katara-though she didn't know it on the surface-it was about closure, seeing the man that killed her mother, and seeing what kind of person he was. That was what ultimatly separated Katara from Jet: Katara got closure, Jet didn't.

And I don't know about you, but Aang's reaction to Kyoshi's wisdom was awfully close to outright refusal to me.

I never said Non-Benders couldn't be BA, I just said that messing with bending in any way would seem to me as a Blasphemy. As though Aang was in effect claiming to be at least equal to the powers of the Universe that descided who got to be Benders. We've just been told that Bending was only part genetics, and part spiritual, what spiritual aspects were at work were never discussed. (All life may be sacred, but as I would answer: Not all life is valuable. As it could be slotted: Human > Animal > Plant, with each level with the potential to be stratified more)

As to the Bender/Non-Bender question: they're all human. If it was Batman, in fiction the most brillient human at peck condition, versus, say, an incompetunt-but no less powerful, Fire Lord in this example-Bender, Batman would win. At least, that's who my money would be on.

As someone else somewhere asked: Why Aang? Why didn't any of the other past Avatars learn Spirit Bending? Roku certainly could've used it against Sozin. Besides: Avatar or not, Aang's human, and all human's are fallable, regardless of how many lives of wisdom are at his fingertips.

Oh true, but I'm just saying that Ozai can still be a deadly threat even without his bending.

Counterpoint 1) Yes, Aang beat Ozai, but it looked to me to be purely through a Deus ex Machina. If he didn't at least know of Spiritbending, Aang would've died that night when Ozai delivered that sucker-punch. He can't rely on those whenever he gets in a pinch, Avatar State or no. After all, Azula still was able to hurt him pretty badly mostly due to stealth alone.

Counterpoint 2) No nation wants to be at war for the long term. But for the Fire Nation, I'm pretty sure the majority wanted to win too. Noblemen, Generals, anyone with a stake in Fire Nation victory and/or in possesion of the resources might be willing and/or able to stage a coup, start a civil war, or stage an attack to restart the war. And history is rife with examples of underdogs overthrowing vast empires. The US during the Revolutionary War being but one example.

Counterpoint 3) How do we know that he'd have to learn from scratch? He could regain it right at his peak. In fact, his bending might even be more powerful due to it being "Spiritually Purified." Besides, Iroh was able to hide his retraining and bodybuilding for roughly two or three months.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-04 01:17:48 +0000 UTC]

Oh, con-coms... I tend to stay away from anything like those... (Except RvBTO... that I love).

There's a difference between not doing anything and not killing. If someone is in ultimate danger there are multiple bending options to save that person, out-of-bending context doesn't apply because Non-benders wouldn't have these moral issues.

I won't pretend to know the reason for the helmets or Gyatso and killing. But for all we know, it was a story-slip between early/later stages of the series. Regardless, just because Gyatso did it doesn't mean it's suddenly morally acceptable to Aang. True, it may influence him as Gyatso was his mentor, but this is another thing we'll ever be able to personally understand.

Are you kidding? It WAS about revenge, Katara openly says all she wants is to kill him, she may say closure, but it's ALL about revenge. And the only difference between Katara and Jet was that Katara ultimately resisted the urge, thanks to the advice of a certain friend...

And Aang was not lecturing in any way. He simply refused to allow Katara to leave on a mission that he disaproved of. And if you call the whole "Rattlesnake" saying a lecture I'm not sure what makes you think that :\.

Kyoshi was doing nothing but stating the obvious, Aang wasn't looking for advice on how to deal with Ozai without morally compromising himself. If anything, he believed none of the three (Kuruk, Kyoshi, Roku) could understand it from an Airbender's position. Yangchen reinforced the previous 3, and then Aang finally admitted he would have to do it.

If it was blasphemy, then why did a Lion-Turtle, the oldest wisest creature left to time, allow (even encourage) it's use? This was nature's way of aiding him.

That's BATMAN!!! Batman freaking beat Superman... if you show me Fire-lord Ozai beating Superman, I'll listen intently.

Aang wasn't the first to learn Energy Bending. Previous Avatars had learned it (as said by the creators),
But the sheer risk involved in it's use and execution was normally not worth it when a simple rock to the face often did the job.

All humans are fallible. To say so would be idiotic. Are you saying that Aang's fallacies would prevent him from reaching inner balance? (thus making him be destroyed by Ozai?)
I'm not sure what you mean by that statement.

Counter-Counterpoint 1) Remember, the Comet granted power of a 100 suns, that's freaking powerful. The Deux Ex Machina was obvious, but it was also obvious that had the suns not been there, Ozai would have been a lot easier.

Counter-Counterpoint 2) While that is true, you're assuming the Fire-Nation is WILLING for war. During Zuko's speech, the FIRE-NATION CROWD WAS CHEERING AT THE END OF THE WAR. In order to wage a war, there need to be generals, there need to be leaders, but above all, there need to be soldiers. The common person probably didn't want more mindless violence over some petty squables that would just end up in more bloodshed. On top of that, We can only assume treaties had been signed, many of them probably have clauses preventing new wars.

Counter-Counterpoint 3) We don't, but neither of us understand the mechanics behind Energy-Bending. For all we know, it permanently removes it outright. And bending is a lot different than bodybuilding. Making fire is a lot more obvious than doing push-ups...

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-04 02:18:30 +0000 UTC]

True, but there is also a difference between doing everything you can, and not.

If that is true, that seems to me like a cop-out, and I don't like those, unless there are indepth, well thought out explanations.

Really? I don't think you give her enough credit. Though if it was soley for revenge, I think life beat Katara to the punch. From what we've seen of Yon Rah's life, apparently pentionless, and taking care of a bitter old woman of a mother with no respect for you, I think he would've prefered death.

As to the lecture business, I'll admit that I am citing someone I know, who discribed it more eloquintly then I. [link] age=17 If you have an FF.Net account, he can be contacted here if you wanna discuss it at length. [link]

If not, I'd suggest you read his stuff, it's pretty interesting.

I'll admit I haven't thought it out fully yet, but I am working on it. My best idea is that this turtle was orphaned at a young age, and spent it all alone, thus may or may not be unaware of the consequences of bending-meddling.

It's an example. Would you prefer it if I replaced him with Wang Fire? Or Sokka, Jet, Mai or Ty Lee?

Really? That's news to me. You figured that they would've at least mentioned it in the Episode Commentaries, since thy don't include their additional Info comics with the boxsets, and I feel that buying the individual discs is wasteful.

...Huh? What? No, I mean he makes mistakes, and that said mistakes-given his position in the world and his abilities-have the potential to become very large and deadly.

1) Perhaps.

2) Frankly, I found that to be greatly unusual. I have a feeling that Zuko or the Fire Sages hand picked those Fire Nation people and planted them Also, if the leaders are absent, others are likely to replace them.

3) I dunno, both require controlled breathing at some level, and a tiny spark can be easy to hid. Although, your other point is valid.

*sighs* Okay. At the extreme risk of sounding like one who gives up, I feel as though that we've both made our points perfectly clear, and that if we were to continue, all it would amount to would be nit-picking and argueing over pointless semantics. Therefore, it might be prudent to agree to disagree, and feel proud that we've made a proper intelectual discuss dangerously close to differing ships, without it boiling over into a flame war.

...Let us also hope that the, shall we say, "less then agreeable members" of our respective shipping communities won't get involved.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-04 02:40:05 +0000 UTC]

True, Yan Ra was a pretty pathetic man, but then again, he didn't exactly seem willing to die either... "PLEASE, TAKE MY MOTHER, THAT SEEMS FAIR!!!"

I'll check him/her out, thanks for the link :]. It's a little hard for me to swallow Zutara fanfics (Probably the same with you and Kataang ;]) though, so if that's involved that might create some problems.

Keep working on that theory, although it really isn't explained much in the show, it's still a topic of interest worth delving into.

Haha nah it's fine. I understood your point, I'm just kinda making a joke about that. And I'll be honest, I only said that because I had no counter-argument for this.

I think it was in some sort of interview when discussing the annoyance over the DEM ending of the show and the random intervention of Energy Bending and it's "sudden appearance".

Oh... Woohoo for over-analysis, the statement was so obvious that I thought maybe it was referencing something else >.< FAIL BY ME. But yes, his mistakes do make a bigger impact, but so have all previous Avatars... remember, it was Roku's mistake that led to the start of the war.

1) I'm not saying Ozai would have been 100x easier, but Aang's barriers and attacks would have had a larger impact in the battle (E.G. the wave of water or the rock he throws up to stop Ozai's attack. For all we know, the Avatar-state may have been necessary anyway, Ozai still is a vicious bender.

2) While planting seems unlikely (what's the point, there's no TV so propaganda in this instance would be useless), I'm sure there are obviously going to be dissenters. Either way, even if some Rebels did start a civil war or coup, it would be one war, just to fight another war.


Don't view it as giving up, every conversation has to end sometime, and it's probably better that you decided to end it before it turns into pointless dung-flinging. We've both made good points, and both explained our views. You were fun to talk to :]
(P.S. this has got to be the only conversation between a Zutarian and Kataanger that I've ever seen, that was much more intellectual thought and much less "ZOMG KATAANG WON WUT NOW ZUTARA?!") And then again, I don't read many conversations between the two because they annoy the crap outta me.

I'm surprised that no one stepped in on either side of the line, and am glad. Is it just me, or do the idiots on both sides seem to hurt more than help?

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-04 03:54:38 +0000 UTC]

True, but still.

Well, a lot of his stuff is for comedy, and he's more Taang then anything. Although, Manifest Destiny is DARK stuff, but so worth the read.

Thanks! I think I will. ^_^

Oh! Well, I doubt in interviews are much to go on, since they've also said lots of things that later turned out to be lies in the past.

2) Not for media, but for the representatives of the other nations present.

Thanks! You proved to be an interesting and challenging sounding board. ^_^ It's not often that I get the chance to show off my fanon and theories. I've got plenty of fic ideas, but I'm bad at getting it out on the computer screen. One that I'm really proud of right now is one involving a "Judgment Spirit" that forces the Avatar through a trial that goes against their character. It would go from Kyoshi to the next Water Avatar.

The section I'm sure will have issues from the audience is with Aang, since their interactions... Don't go over pleasently.

As to no one butting it: I'm not well known on DA, so lots of trolls leave me be. And yes, they hurt.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-04 19:16:58 +0000 UTC]

Trust me, I know getting ideas in your head and on paper are two totally different thing. I've been making a SW/Avatar X-over. The idea is effective, the execution seems decent, but the effort is what's murdering me.

One problem you're probably having is self-depreciation and the belief your work isn't good enough. I had that a lot until I figured just saying "Fuck it, I'm doing it" works very well

:\ what kind of interactions? I dun want mah Fwend Aangy to be in trouble...

Mmm, it's probably better that way... Trolls are only funny in my opinion when the troll is me... and the people I'm trolling are total idiots... namely extremely hardcore Jonas Brothers' fans (Sorry if you like them, but it's true :s)

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-04 21:42:07 +0000 UTC]

Oh really? Who plays Anakin/Vader, Zuko or Aang?

Hmmm, perhaps. BUt I want it to make sense too.

Mmmm..... Weeell... Pan Ding is a rather intense Spirit. Imagine, if you will, that you took Batman's backstory, and applied it to DC's The Spectre, with a dash of Watchmen's Dr. Manhattan. [link] [link] [link] )/Images [link] )/Quotes Yeah. Not a pleasent guy. He's vindictive, he's sociopathic with psychopathic tendencies, he has a very, very dark sense of humor. Though considering his job: you would either need one, or go mad.

Anyway, Pan Ding is an interesting character-if I say so myself- because he beleives that both Rousseau Was Right [link] "Humans are Good" and that Hobbes Was Right [link] "Humans are Evil." And since he more often expresses his subscription to Hobbes, he is warry of the idea of a Human having the powers of the Avatar. As such, he tests each incarnation in a way that will either make or break them.

For Aang, Pan Ding is rather ticked that not only did he not kill Ozai, but that he removed his bending, for reasons more or less mentioned. Therefore, his trial is to kill at list one person. The designated targets are anyone who is part of a Well-Intention Extremist terrorist group to free the colonies that mostly is held together by the knowledge that Aang won't kill.

Naturally, Aang doesn't approve, which then devolves into a battle between him and Pan Ding that makes his battle with Ozai look like a particularly nasty Golf Turnament. ...In which Aang gets the crap beat out of him. Keep in mind that if Pan Ding wanted Aang dead, he wouldn't even have to be on the same plane of existence.

After the third hostage victem is killed because of Aang's relative inaction, PD talks him into a nervous breakdown, which he is cured of later off-screen.

Hopefully any negative reactions for Aang-Fans would be negated by other scenes that show Pan Ding being reluctant about what is happening, as well as a psuedo-essay about why I made Pan Ding treat Aang in this way.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-04 22:38:09 +0000 UTC]

It's based more around the story of KotOR (I made it before I ever heard of SWTOR).
Aang is the Last Jedi
Katara and Sokka find him.
Ozai is a Sith lord trying to control the universe.
Zuko is his son, and Iroh is his uncle, with a mysterious past.
Toph has yet to be introduced.

How can Hobbes and Rosseau be right at the same time? Their beliefs went past "good" and "evil"... Hobbes believed in authoritarian control and said the only way for society to function was with total loss of freedom... does that incorporate or is it only their underlying beliefs?

That sounds kinda interesting, the idea is good, however I've no doubt it's a ZUTARA FANFIC! LOL NEVER GUNNA READ IT!!1!1!!
JK

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-04 23:23:44 +0000 UTC]

Hm...

I've not studied philosiphy, so I just go by the overall summery of what they were saying. Like what was discribed in the links given.

As to how they are both right, it's simple: Pan Ding fully believes that Mankind is irredeemably and inherently evil. However, the soul reason why he allows it to continue to exist is because it also has undeniable goodness, with an appriciation for beauty, art, and higher things. Considering what Pan Ding has seen in both his life and his job-the death of his parents, witnessing every single crime ever: every rape, every theft, every murder, every Fill In The Blank-that's awfully optimistic.

If it helps pin this spirit down, look at this character alignment chart for Batman. [link] Depending on the circumstances, Pan Ding fits into any one of those nine. ...Except for Lawful Good. Anyone but that one. And at a second glance, Lawful Neutral seems questionable.

Oh don't worry, I don't screw with canon in it, that's for another story. In fact, during the "Trial of Aang" section, Mai and Zuko are married and expecting a son. However, Pan Ding leaves no doubt that when it comes to maiko and Kataang, he-like La-DOES NOT APPROVE!!! ^_^

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-05 02:28:02 +0000 UTC]

Sounds interesting...

I've studied a bit on Humanistic philosophies. Namely Hobbes... so I know a bit more about him than Rosseau.

You be playin'... right? A Zutarian not creating a story to fit Zutarian needs?
That's like a Kataanger making a story where Katara goes with Zuko... And it not being a parody or an Aangst fic...

Although this does sound quite Aangsty (Hah, see what I did there?)...

Aang doesn't commit suicide, does he?
Or have anything bad happen?
Or have Katara leave him (If you're going to have Zutara, make it painless and easy for him to grasp, I'mm sure that's worse than death.)

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-05 02:46:36 +0000 UTC]

^_^

Ah! I see.

Nope. I'm just using canon. Iz in ur fandom! Scrun' ur canon! Although, I am using Pan Ding as a mouthpiece for Aang-Haters and criticizers-though the arguements are used in a more objective way-as well as a vehicle for my fellow Zutarians who took the finale a bit to personally.



No, Pan Ding just leaves him a battered, sobbing and broken man. He recovers about two years later.

Well... Innocent people die... And Pan Ding reveals my Fanon about Toph's exact nature, here relationship to the Avatar, and his sorrow about her life alone.

Nope. Zuko's married to my here 'member? And Katara marries Aang two years after the fact as well. (Pan Ding makes note of the fact that their marriage comes very close to Aang's ultimate recovery, but leaves just what the conotations-and which ones he believes in-up to the audience to think of.) And Aunt Wu's prediction of Katara's long life, seeing her descendents and dieing in here sleep are maintained.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-05 04:36:54 +0000 UTC]

AANG HATERS?! HISSSSS...
I like Aang... I share so much in common with him...

That sounds pretty bad to me. -.-

Ahah! so it's not a Zutara, it's a Taang! Even worse!!!

... hrmmh
This spirit sounds like it ships Zutara...

And I'll have you know... Twi and La hate ALL ships... they tend to cut them in half... or eat them... Om nom nom

As you can tell, as this conversation is winding down, so is my intelligence ...

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-05 04:43:11 +0000 UTC]

Don't worry, Pan Ding likes Aang a lot on a personal level. Just not professionally. He feels that, while Aang is the kind of Avatar the World needs after The War, he's not the kind it needs in the middle of the social upheaval right after it.

*shrugs*

What?! It's both.

Oh he does, and he also ships Taang, and Sukka, and Roku/Ta Min, and Kummi, and La/Tui, and La/Yue, and...

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-07 22:46:52 +0000 UTC]

Pssh... Even Aang says he never wanted to be Avatar... He was thrown in there blindly by the spirits to do something at his age that was unheard of. Hating or disliking Aang because he doesn't know how to deal with politics at AGE 13 is unfair and stupid.

You can't blame him for something nature did itself.

Oh... that makes me feel SO much better...

NO NO NO NO NO
LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH NOT TRUEEE NOOOT TRUUUUEEE

(P.S. Iroh ships Maiko/Kataang... HAH WHAT NOW HATERZ!?

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-08 01:32:19 +0000 UTC]

K9: Hmmm..... I'll let Pan Ding himself answer this one.

Pan Ding: Whether or not Aang wished to be the Avatar's host is irrelevent. Wan Jiu chose him, and thus we're all stuck with him. And as any attorney or judge in thw world will tell you: Ignorance of The Law, is NOT an excuse. Personally, I blame the monks for all this. Had they JUST had faith that I wouldn't let them all die before the boy's time, I would've slaughtered Sozin that night and Aang would've lived a perfectly happy Avatar life. Idiots. Didn't they learn from The Black Avatar? And now the boy must spend the rest of his days living a lie: the lie that the Head Monks were correct in informing Aang four years to early, when he had NO training in the ethics of his position, and robbing him of a normal childhood. That's cruel. Even for me.

K9: Well put Pan. Anyway Mike, it seems that you do not like the concepts that the very "gods" of Avatar don't ship Maiko or Kataang.

Pan Ding: BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Loser! Kataang is a sugar-coated lie!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

K9: *sighs* -_-' Sorry, Pan Ding doesn't beleive in tact. Anyway, as to Iroh: Perhaps, but there is a Real World quote that I think would very easily slip out of Iroh's mouth: "Love and Scandal are the best sweeteners of Tea." ...For no other reason other than the fact that it mentions tea.

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-10 01:37:08 +0000 UTC]

*sigh*... I guess it's still checkmate in my favor...

Why?




Kataang won.

No changing that

:] bitch move on my part FTW

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K9-The-First In reply to MikeJCaboose [2009-06-10 02:13:52 +0000 UTC]

K9: ...See, this is part of the reason why Zutarians want to stay Zutarian. Many of the usually more vocal Kataangers gloat whereever they can, and yet they also seem so insecure about their victory that they feel the need to smash that fact over the heads of anyone who's opinion of shipping differs from theirs. Seriously dude: Not fun. Cut it out.

Pan Ding: Oh? Checkmate you say? *smiles evily* Not for long... [link]

K9: Pan Ding, No. Just... No. -_-'

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MikeJCaboose In reply to K9-The-First [2009-06-10 03:22:31 +0000 UTC]

There's a reason I called it a bitch-move.
It's a killjoy, puts an end to the fun, and above all; is absolutely retarded. The point of shipping fights is not whether the fact that Canon calls for Kataang/Zutara/Ect. The point is and should be whether they SHOULD belong, not whether they DID belong.

I suppose the lack of sarcasm-detectors on the internet could cause some problems with this, but either way...

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giant-squid-xx In reply to MikeJCaboose [2011-02-01 11:23:06 +0000 UTC]

I just read through this ENTIRE conversation and I LOVE how you guys went from an intelligent debate to underhanded bitchy comments. LOL

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K9-The-First In reply to M-Lyn [2009-05-17 18:51:02 +0000 UTC]

As someone I know at school would say: "All manner."

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K9-The-First In reply to CrystalRobot [2009-05-17 03:08:46 +0000 UTC]

What? I said it was for the Zutara Caps_Lock thread, what's essentially a highly narrow interest group, where almost anything posted there is just for laughs, and the posters know it.

...And pr0nz, there's that too, it's just not advertized as much.

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CrystalRobot In reply to K9-The-First [2009-05-17 05:29:21 +0000 UTC]

O_o;

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K9-The-First In reply to Mumy-chan [2009-05-17 00:15:12 +0000 UTC]

What? ...What?!

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