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leevolt In reply to ??? [2017-05-22 18:57:48 +0000 UTC]

Thank you! I spent some of his perks in the "cool outfit" zone, but it's the same for me. If I could ever say that I have a favourite character, since everyone of them is different, but still... Elio is special for me.

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kdpxva In reply to leevolt [2017-05-23 18:32:15 +0000 UTC]

You're welcome!
You're very right. We will always have a favorite we create. I think sometimes it happens in an unexpected way as well.

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leevolt In reply to papa0843 [2017-05-16 10:58:59 +0000 UTC]

I start with a pencil sketch and then I add layers of digital paint in GIMP or with my dad's Photoshop. 
First I take a good hi res photo of the pencil drawing, then I import it into the digital paint program. 
I set the pencil layer in multiply mode and I add colour layers and shades under the pencil layer so it will show up above everything else. 
I'm currently painting with a wacom intuos digital tablet. 
Hope this helps!

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papa0843 In reply to leevolt [2017-05-16 11:11:19 +0000 UTC]

Sure! I really got a nice tips!
Thank u so much it's very nice explanation!

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leevolt In reply to papa0843 [2017-05-16 11:16:08 +0000 UTC]

no problem! Feel free to ask if you'll ever have other questions!

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-16 09:39:24 +0000 UTC]

Yes, darkness was part of what I was aiming for with this piece... and with Elio in general. 

I must thank you for your compliments about his design, while Elio will probably thank you for your compliments about his corpse hiding skills. We are both grateful! 

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-16 20:48:14 +0000 UTC]

So are these characters for a story? If so, I can't wait to see what it is! The story almost speaks for itself from your characters. Your style is really unique and fantastic! Your font fits the mood, and I love the short description of each character. Hmm, I wonder who he's the father of. And what's fog tea? Sounds mystical yet fancy.  

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-16 22:54:26 +0000 UTC]

I'll add a quick synopsis as soon as I have the plot lines ready (because although it's an old project, I've never gave it logical sense...).

Eheh, I'm having way too much fun choosing the short descriptions. Mostly because they are, well, short, and also because they tell everything and nothing at the same time. 
In order to fulfill your curiosity:
Elio is married to a lovely little woman named Madeline from... err... I don't wanna check the timeline again... well, he's been married to her for like twenty years and he's father of seven children. Not surprising, considered he has a job that permits him to feed them and the epoque is XVIII century-ish. You know, Netflix wasn't available at the time to entertain a couple in the evening
As you can also guess then, Elio is not this young, but he also married Madeline pretty early. 

Then, fog tea: in Elio's city, it's named Calina, and it's actually not a tea. I stole the idea from a "folk" beverage we have here in the mountains of Veneto, which is "tè alla cacciatora" (Hunter's Tea). Basically it's a base of hot spiced tea with a gooooood liquor correction. Fog tea has a licorice black liquor correction and a veil of milk (whose vapors made by the boiling tea look a little like fog for a few seconds, hence the name). Not exactly the thing you should drink before climbing on roofs and do dangerous stuff.  

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-17 00:58:53 +0000 UTC]

I get that idea of having an idea of an idea... but never solidifying it. Even now, I'm slowly letting a story formulate itself in my mind before actually putting it down.

So is the setting the same as the 'real world'? No supernatural creatures and whatnot? You did say it was 18th century-ish, which is a fascinating time period. It'd be fantastic if the details were all accurate from the 18th century, but I know research can be really hard (I myself am not very fond of research if it grows too laborious.) It's always easier to make up a world 'similar' to the 18th century, and often can be more fun too!  Or maybe that's just me (and because I'm too lazy to do research. :T).

Ahh, I get it. Fog tea. You sound classy while it's actually a hardcore alcohol mixture. Smart! (Although I suppose everyone in the story would already know what fog tea is...) Also, Calina such a great name! Pretty and city-like. How do you come up with names like these?  

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-17 09:17:58 +0000 UTC]

Oh, don't worry about time. I mean,I had to wait for ages before i could solidify the story, and even now there are some black holes that my mind can't logically investigate, but of which i have a feeling, or an idea. You know, a concept of something. 

Well, the setting is not the real world, because all this started as some sort of realistical fantasy. So, there are four sentient species that live toghether in the same land in a time period which can refer to the "age of reason" so, you know, there were lots of compromises in a developing "human" society. It's a period in which people does lots of research, start questioning the forms of state and religious beliefs, introduce new ways to interpretate the world (even proto evolutionary theories), but there were also whole lots of flaws. 
So, as you can see, the world itself is a fantasy world under a realistical light. There are no dragons, no magic, no supernatural powers and no "superior creatures" or gods (with one exception of a biologically indescrivible creature which is Maù and he's the whole point of the story) or at least, there are not classical fantasy abilities which are justified with the sentence "magic. it's so simple". This is also because I LOVE doing research, may it be ethnic, geographic or historic research. 

So, concerning details: argh, it's an hard point. You know, you can't simply copy things like the XVIII century paraphernalia and give it to an imaginary society. This is mainly because their environment is different, and also their culture and beliefs. Think about how much the presence of other sentient species can influence their outlook on life. 
As a simple example of all this: Take Grizzò Chillet (second of the character sheets). He's clearly inspired on XVIII century european (mostly french) gallants. Now, his design has always been a copypaste of that of french gallants of the period, but then I had to consider two things that could change his outfit:

One was the fact they live near a desert, or however, in a very hot environment. Their city is famous for its gardens and abundand flora, so their clothes might be celebrating that. However, they also should be a little more suitable for crossing desertic lands, so here arrives a more "folkish" look, with thicker and more dry fabrics, leather shoes and a big and strong built coat that can shelter from sand and can work as a blanket while camping. 

This is how I proceed with character creation I hope I didn't make you feel too much bored, and thank you for asking! 


Ah, the name Calina, I was forgetting that. Simply, I was looking for Italian synonyms for "fog" (nebbia) and one of them is "Caligine". I altered the word Caligine into Calina, and here we are. Don't worry, Caligine is not a word that we use commonly, and the source of the word Calina is not clear for Italians neither. 
Since Elio's city (hear the Italian name?) is inspired on a dark Venice, I wanted hidden Italian roots for their stuff. Also... I live really near to Venice, to be honest. It's one of my heart cities.  

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-18 01:05:35 +0000 UTC]

I love how you pay such close attention to detail. I myself am not a big fan of research, but I do appreciate the results it brings. I love really digging into the depths of a character and considering all things that might affect the character (even if somethings may not be mentioned, but that's okay! It helps me develop my characters better). When I first started writing, I must admit I created a self-insert character and a Mary Sue (or Gary Stu, in this case. Basically a boring, perfect character). It was much to my embarrassment.   But now I strive to create more realistic characters... even if it's in a completely fantastical setting! 

I've always wanted to delve into the possibility of magic. I don't like using magic as a cop out either... so I tried to create a logical explanation to magic in one of my conceptual stories. It was difficult but fun. (Sadly, it has sunk into near oblivion at the moment  .) It's kind of my goal to bring realism in a fantastical setting. Your setting sounds so interesting, mixing fantasy and history all together into one great, story-potential place. One more question, if you don't mind. I've seen a lot of fantasy settings have their own 'maps', where they draw the countries. In my opinion, it's not very satisfying. Our world today is huge and has hundreds of countries, but some settings only have a dozen countries at most. Other stories will only focus on one country and almost 'ignore' the rest of the 'world' (which is reasonable, considering it's very hard to craft an entire other world). Do you plan on only focusing on this one city or have you considered creating their whole world? I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere... Also, did you choose the 18th century from the beginning or you started thinking of your characters and decided the 18th century would fit them?

I have a similar naming process. I usually turn to other languages when English is a little too unoriginal. Then I modify them to suit me. Other times, I somehow come up with the perfect name right away, which is always wonderful. It can be some gibberish word that I've never heard of, and yet my mind still comes up with a well-fitting name! I don't know if I'm just an occasional genius or my subconscious was suddenly very inspired.  

Don't worry about boring me. I love discussing stories and I love hearing the process of how people come up with them (me wanting to make my own story too). Thanks as well for taking the time to indulge me and my curiosity. I always comment hoping to talk to someone because I'm a lonely little soul.   But I can't wait for your story to naturally build more. It sounds like the type of story I'd love to reread a lot.

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-18 16:34:45 +0000 UTC]

Yesss! Long message on my notifications! I love when it happens. 

Well, well... let's start from the beginnign then. 
Oh, Gary sue, you! Are you a fan of TvTropes? I personally have discovered it this year, but I admit it's a great source. Even if it can be a little difficult for me to fully and immediately understand as an Italian. You know, I love reading English articles, but I don't have the instinctive understanding that a native english speaker would have. 

Anyway... eh, I could say the same about my characters. I had a Camp Gay with Evil is Sexy/Perverted features, I had the (obviously boring) action girl (but I admit i find the action boy equally boring), not to mention my beloved Chosen One Because of Yes. 

Character developing requires a lot of time, so whenever I stumble on old concepts for these characters (some of them became the characters you see now) it feels heartwarming to see the long path they're taking to Round Character Way. 

About the map. At the moment, the whole story takes place in a pretty large portion of land (which some years ago was the "map") as it should be some sort of Continent. And no, this continent has not a name, mostly because it would feel weird for me to use a name for it. I'll probably come up with a name for it someday, but I prefer to name smaller regions in the language of their inhabitants. Moreover, the map is still pretty empty, and it contains a pretty large portion of desert. You know, the thing that always makes me frown about fantasy maps is mostly the fact that they look like they should contain everything, from mountains to forests to rainforests to marshes to friggin'volcanoes. Sincerely, all that stuff should be contained in a larger and well organized map, Tolkien-style. My own map is more a serie of geographic indications for my characters and for their lands, but between the locations is mostly "terra incognita", which I render as i write about it, always thinking about the geography of the area, of course.

Eh... this is a big flaw in my project, but it has a certain amount of willingness on it. I'm doing my best to focus on the story more than on the world itself, even if world building is a satisfying and funny part of the job.

Now, about the 18th century thing. Actually, this whole story started as a fanfiction of some sort for ....I'm not sure I want to mention the roots of this story, but I can assure you you would never, never NEVER see any resemblance. So, I'll just say that the starting point wasn't about a 18th century timed world, more a children's book fantasy one. 

The "problem" was that at the time of the first story developing (I was 13/14) I had a big crush for history, in particular for the 18th century time period. (having had Commodore Norrington as first child crush didn't help). Knowing that that century wasn't suitable for my little happy story, I promised myself not to put it into the world, but I started using some 18th century easter eggs like old noble coats on a scarecrow.

Then my very first personal character, Stilo, came to life as a "fictional father" for an aborted old character from the original story. I wanted him to be a watchmaker with a past in the army as a General, and I came up with the little Napoleon you can see now. From this points, other characters started to spawn in order to surround Stilo's backstory, and I completely screw up the old plot.  

This is the story of the story  

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-19 00:31:16 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad you don't mind long comments because here I go again. xP

Yes, I am a fan of tvtropes actually. I just discovered it last year and it's pretty helpful and interesting to see my favorite series' tropes. My old characters were all quite boring, to be honest. They probably fit tons of tropes. As I got tired of boring characters and cliches, I wanted write a story that broke as many cliches as possible... which is a cliche in itself, of course. My Gary Stu, after I realized he was a Gary Stu, I attempted to correct him by giving him a maniacal alter ego. Did not work out. He's one of my first characters ever, and I think he'll just become another legend back in the day, haha. Probably permanently, since I'm onto (hopefully) more rounded characters. 

I've struggled with being unable to create characters that I don't understand. It's probably easier if they have a fantastical past that no one has a standard for, but if it's a realistic character in the modern world, I never know quite what to write. I always worry if it'll be believable enough (although sometimes truth can be stranger than fiction). Speaking of realism, what do you think about being 'too' realistic? What I mean is that I saw you saying that Elio's mask is not very practical for his occupation, but since it fits his design (and it really does), you were going to keep it. So what is the 'limit' of realism, especially in fantastical or somewhat historical settings like yours? I know some characters have really impractical outfits that could use a bit more logic, but others have outfits that really fit the character... even if it doesn't make sense that they have a cape or some other random piece of clothing. Obviously, especially with character decisions and actions, there's a suspension of disbelief somewhere... And there's also the case where a realistic choice will fall into a cliche and make the audience groan and get turned away. Would it be better to take that 'risk' and pursue realism until the end, or kind of defy the cliche and almost give the audience something fresh or new? 

I find it's hard for me to put myself in a character's shoes, especially if their thinking is supposed to be completely different from mine. Each character has at least a small part of the author in them anyway... I don't know how far you are in your story and if you know your characters' roles yet, but do you know how to keep a certain character's thoughts consistent yet able to have character development? There's a comic I read (it's a webtoon, if you know what that is), where I really admire the author's characters. Each character is unique in design, character, and personality. In fact, the author often writes author notes that let us see what she's thinking as she writes these characters. And she seems to be able to know exactly what any one of her characters would do in any situation. It's so awesome to see how well she knows her characters. She also knows her plot so well. I don't know how long she's been thinking of her story, but everything is so elaborate and perfectly made. She'll have little lines of dialogue early in the story that won't make sense until she reveals the whole thing. And when you go back to reread it, you learn something new each time and understand the story better. She's made one of those stories that can be reread so many times, and that's so fantastic. She's kind of the kind of author I want to be. 

Another struggle with realism is easter eggs. I personally think it's fine to put in extra little details that don't fit the setting at all, because it's the privilege of the author, though some may disagree. I actually really love small details that the author hides in the story (whether relevant or not). It makes me feel accomplished when I find them. 

About the map thing, I think it's fine if the map is 'incomplete', because then it tells everyone that the characters themselves don't know the whole world yet, especially if it's the 18th century. I don't know if people in the real 18th century had most of the whole world mapped, but I'm sure that if in your setting the characters haven't had the resources to go and explore the world, an incomplete map would be more fitting.

I think I may have rambled too much. Hope you don't mind.   

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-19 08:52:56 +0000 UTC]

Of course I don't mind! See, generally speaking it's hard to find commenters, and even more hard to find people who will agree to get past the "awesome pic!" and "thank you" sentences. I don't know, might be shyness. So, I'm always glad when someone feels up for some chat, and it's also pretty helpful. Your points of view help me to focus on problems I might have underrated before, and it's not a rare case if these chats bring me sudden revelations or good ideas about my project. So, here I go!

Let's start from the principle: the pursue of the rounded character. I feel this is strictly connected to the pursue of realism, and, more in general, with our urge to really "bring to life" our worlds. 
I personally think that an excessive attention to details can bring the opposite effect, a "synthethic" feel. It's not simply a way to justify my flaws (because I always work hard to adjust them the best I can) but it's a matter of priority. At the moment, I could say that my desire to make a very good plot and a sincere interaction between the characters stands above my desire to craft a miniature realistic world. Thus, always keeping in mind my priorities, I try my best to change the more painfully obvious fantasy problems, but I'm not willing to lose my head after the pursuit of perfection. I experimented this at school: See, I've always been pretty good in my class, but I've never been that kind of overly studying perfectionist girl. Now, there was a girl (who felt herself like my nemesis, poor thing ) who was exactly the perfectionist type. She was clearly more good than me at studying, as she was able to perfectly memorize pages, dates, annotations. My work was sincerely more rough. I started wondering why I was getting better grades than her (and why this thing was getting on her nerves) and it was a question of "goal". My goal was to craft a good exam with something entirely mine, no matter if it contained some flaws or if I didn't keep in mind some details, because if i were confident enough in my project, my teachers would have enjoyed it anyway. And it worked exactly that way. Sometimes I even had the snootiness to openly joke with my professors. So, if her goal was absolute perfection, teachers were "forced" to look for the flaw, because THERE HAS TO BE SOME FLAW AS NOTHING PERFECT EXISTS. Once you find a flaw in something that has the purpose of being perfect, that whole thing loses its importance, no matter how much you worked on it. Its purpose has been ruined by a tiny grain of sand. 

This is my idea about perfection. Of course working in order to improve something is always a good thing, but we often think (myself included) that we should craft something PERFECT, and this often leads us to unsormontable problems. Let's take your fantasy project or mine for an example: by its nature, fantasy will contain supernatural elements, and no matter how much we will try to explain those elements, they will not be realistical enough, simply because we don't have them in our reality. We can try, as little scientists, to craft an explanations over them, and this explanation can surely be good, but this is our limit. On the other hand, writing a realistic story set in our world can be way more difficult, because we would have the compromise between narration (and the plot that goes in our head) and the more casual-looking, daily reality. Like, you know, we are something like the gods of our projects, and if we pursue realism we must craft the world and our characters without anyone realizing that there is a mind behind all. If there's a mind behind our actions (I won't investigate this here) I don't know, but we don't notice anything like that for sure, and that can be terribly difficult to mimic in a fictional world.

So, ah... let's go to my buddy Elio and his mask. Referring on what I've written above, you can see that for me the pursue of a good character goes beyond the pursue of perfection. I...would not exactly know how to make a perfect character suitable for doing what he does, so i tried to make his design as a mix of practical and stylish. I've tried to make totally practical designs for my characters (I had a very "realistical" period two years ago) but they turned out as not mine at all. Probably it's not my thing  
(with the same bonds, this applies on their society, as it can be even more difficult to craft a society specimen)

And now, for my favourite part: character immedesimation. It's a good point, and I'm glad i've finally found someone willing to discuss it. 

I can only say how I think it works for me: when I have to craft a scene, at first I try to think like the character without bothering about how different they could be from me. Like, if I had to make a scene featuring Elio, I'd try to think like someone with its attitude and temper before anything else (otherwise, I'd probably feel blocked by the ocean of differences that are between me and him). 
I could ask myself "how can I interpretate a bodyguard who actually kills people as it's his job, who is also married and is father of lots of children and who lives in a fantastical 18th century timed land?" If I had to think that every time, I'd probably shoot myself. 
Sooo, I try to focus on his primary features: in this case, its attitude. I'll try to act politely but not sugary, remembering that my job is considered scary (and maybe getting, depending on the occasion, pride or annoyance because of that), acting curious but only for my purposes (the genuinely curious character is Stilo, when it gets curious he's annoying as hell), and trying to feel what he would feel in his clothes (is he hot? is he protected by cold? Are the boots comfortable? Is he full of sand? Will the boots sound in a particular way on that terrain? Is he dirty or sweating? (in that case, I'd wish a bath and some relax very often) Where is the sword? Is he hurt or tired because of something? And, oh, I see everyone from a higher point of view because he's tall). So it looks like a lot of things to remember, but if I put all these features in some sort of "character folder" in my mind and "load" it everytime I have to think what Elio does, it becomes handy. 
Then, I try to polish my thoughts with Elio's setting: remembering he's a male for instance, but that he's also married. Remembering that he could have work deadlines or burdens that could make he feel anxious. I can't think like that character, that would be impossible, but I try to approach it the best I can. Talking with lots of different people is a formidable source for this. Having a male buddy with whom dicuss this can be helpful for crafting male characters (of course every person and every character is an individual, but there are some physical features that actually influence your thoughts and your actions. Speaking with my boyfriend while we were camping, I discovered he often thinks less about how heavy his backpack is, while I was thinking more about how much I was sweating and about how annoying flies were. On the other hand, he was in need for a bathroom more often then I was). 

This is it. 
Fuuuuuuck, I've made a huge message. I promise I won't always be so long. I promise. 
I hope you'll find it at least a little interesting, and I want to ask you how do you immedesimate in a character instead? I think it's very interesting. 
 

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-19 23:26:52 +0000 UTC]

I don't think I'm that skilled with immedesimation yet, but I'm trying to improve on this, and I think the first step is definitely along the lines with what you said. Basically, finding common ground. Obviously, such things in fantasy settings won't happen in real life, but the whole point of making a character that the audience can connect to, no matter how fantastical, is that they too have human emotions or associate with human emotions in some way. I always always start with how I myself would act in the character's situation. Well, this step is kind of instinctive for me. I immediately think of how I would act. Then I would try to include all the variables and differences that make that character unique. Lately, I've been trying to think of every possible decision the character could make. The process is more in-depth with 'big' decisions (that may or may not change the entire plot with a single decision). For smaller decisions, I'd probably take two extremes (that are still reasonable) and then one or two in betweens. 

I absolutely love thinking about a character and their emotions and decisions. I really want to make my characters come alive, to be unique as their own character, but also so that the audience can connect with them in some way. (although there are some times I want to on purposely make the audience not understand the character. Maybe it's because the character doesn't understand humans either... but that's a whole different subject). I especially like delving into a character's past. Obviously, you shouldn't be too concerned about a character's past, since the story is usually about the character's present, but the past is very helpful in characterizing someone. For example, one of my characters had some conflict with their parents. The dad was very distant and the mom was very nosy and overprotective. They had reasons for being so, of course, and you can even think of the grandparents that made the parents this way. But because of the character's parents' attitudes and how they raised the character, it really helped me decide how to portray this character. Though his mother favored him, he still wanted his dad's approval, so he sometimes brushed his mother off. It's hard to explain, but these relationships almost seem to create my character for me. But as you said before, thinking about so many things at once can be overwhelming. But as you continue writing a character and considering all these things, eventually, the character comes almost naturally. 

Another thing I watch for is making sure my characters don't act the same way. People are surprisingly similar in real life, but they're still unique individuals. I've struggled with this (and probably still do), where two of my characters seem far too similar. To me, they don't seem similar, but if I look at them objectively, they're almost identical. I would think up of a situation and imagine how these characters would respond (factoring in their personalities). But the responses I imagined were the same. This is fine to a certain extent, but I found that they responded identically way too much. I wasn't sure how to individualize them, so I ended up scrapping them. This is usually what happens to me when I try to flesh out an idea too early. I often want to write about a single characteristic, but I found that basing an entire character off that one trait does not work at all. 

I'm not incredibly social, so I don't have many friends I'm close enough to that I'm able to find how they respond to certain things and how they respond differently. I don't know their inner thoughts. However, I think it's helpful to look at their outside too. The way they portray themselves to others can be used as well. If you just sit in a restaurant or cafe and listen to people talk, they all say different things to the same words. Some people might act close to what they are really like inside (especially if they're with a friend). Others may not think like how they act at all. 

Basically, I think that characters are naturally made by their own surroundings that are distinct with the story. But you might find real world situations that are similar to the fantasy character's situation, and you can use real life observations to craft a realistic result. There's so much more I want to talk about, but this is getting a bit too long. 

Just one thing I wanted to ask. You said you started your story as a fanfiction. Did you originally imagine your story as one with visuals (as in drawings), or did it start off as words? I was really into writing, so all my stories were purely words. But I started wanting to portray them more clearly. I tried to found pictures online that might represent them, but they were all just celebrities, and it was very difficult to find pictures to represent my characters (in looks) well. So I turned to drawing, and I now want to make a story with pictures to better portray the appearance of characters and their emotion. I see that your style is pretty unique. Did you naturally start out with that style, or did you want to consciously pick that style to fit your story? (I know some authors who pick a certain style to match their story.) If you know about shoujo and shounen manga (which have usually a certain 'type' of style to fit the genre), do you think the style is all that important and should match the genre and the story?

(oof, what a wall of text. And yet I want to add more! This is exciting )

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-20 18:13:22 +0000 UTC]

Oh, there! What a lovely answer! 

For character immedesimation, I think yours can be a very good technique. Also, I think everyone has its own, so... ours are pretty similar, but we have some differences and attention for different elements maybe. I think it's what makes a story personal and also resourceful for the readers  

Characters act too similar? This is a good point. I had the same problem under a different light: most of my characters were so weird that they started looking the same. It's not necessary to screw up the characters in my opinion; a good amount of details and some different tastes for them can do the trick, or at least, this worked for me. They could also be similar in their attitude, and nothing will prevent you from doing that, as they will still be individuals. I have two characters who are both "kind souls", but one loves animals and friendship, while the other loves silence, plants and friendship under a more silent light. Time, of course, time will reveal the best of your characters. This, or it will probably kill them, so no worries! You won't take the risk to employ a boring or stereotyped character if you work long enough, simply because time won't let you. I feel like some characters are born in a particular phase of my life, and as this phase fades away, the character can also evolve according to the times or perish. It's a merciless form of natural selection. (this also leads me to think that somewhere, in some dimension, our works are somewhat "real", but it's a completely different subject, so let's just go on) 

Ahh, now, to writing, drawing and style. 
I started with both. I've always kept drawing, so it was natural for me to "illustrate" my story and to draw the characters. Also, having some references for a character helps you to keep in mind important details, so my drawings (I have lots of studies and folders which I'll never upload... they're the mountain of work which hides under my resulting drawings) are often used by me as an "info bank". An archive also for transformations and for changes in the story. 

As for style... when I started drawing the first characters I was almost 13/14, but my drawings were actually horrible. I don't pretend to have found my style now (it's always evolving), but I'm happy with the results, and I think this is the important thing. This, and to never start learning, even if you feel proud of something. So, when I started, I aimed for a children's book style, since the story was about that, but I also wanted to build my own style. This is probably due a big burn I received when I started drawing manga at the age of 12. They were of course horrible, but some people told me that they were a thing that everyone draws. That was one of the few times I listened to an offence and forced myself to change, because now I'd probably send them to hell. Anyway, this led me to look for my personal style, and from my doodles (I might do a "draw again meme", it would surely be inspirational since my first drawings were really, really terrible) it came to this style bit by bit. Small choices and big choices influenced its development (like when I chose my story wouldn't have been intended for children anymore), and now here I am. We'll see where future brings me, hopefully. 

Hey, I saw your profile to see how you work, and you said you're a beginner, but you surely started well. If it can be of any help, never refuse to work with references, they'll help you understand how things work. If you'll copy enough wolves for example, you'll understand how wolves are made and you will be able to draw them without references- and, ultimately, to stylize them because you know how they work, and not to stylize them to mask what you don't know about them  

Drawing is a challenging task which requires practice, so try to draw the most you can. Pushing yourself to draw without "inspiration" can be very frustrating, but it's like playing an instrument, without practice you will never end. Also, inspiration doesn't exist. Good ideas exist, wanting to draw a good idea, this exists, but you don't have a button which turns your hand on or off while you draw. It's a common legend without foundation, because even the greatest artists did lots of (often shitty) practice. 
A good challenge can be that of making a small and simple doodle every day, like, I don't know, an apple doodle whie having breakfast, or whatever. Buy a good looking little sketchbook that makes you happy to see it and some decent pencils, and don't let your hand become lazy!  

(these are all the drawing tips my art teacher told me at high school. She was awesome!) 

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-21 00:03:59 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for all the awesome tips! The reason I call myself a beginner is because I view myself as a beginner. Of course, (most) other people that see my art tell me that's it's really good. But when I practice I see all the techniques and parts that I really need to improve on. To name a few: hands, symmetry, wrinkles, shading, background, etc. Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so sometimes I only see the flaws. Other times, I'm very proud of a certain piece and can't see any flaws at all yet I know that there MUST BE some flaws. I think there's a delicate balance where you always seek to improve but still be content with what you drew, because you time and effort into it and completed it. I do have some confidence in my art, but I also see the vast area of improvement I still need to get to.

Another reason of insecurity about my art is that I never took art seriously until now. I don't know about your artist history, but many others like you have been drawing since they were little. I drew when I was young until now, but not frequently, since I was really into books and writing at the time. So I never really went through that phase of 'copying' other people's art or studying anatomy and such. Even now I'm not sure if I should go back to the basics and start drawing from the beginning or continue from where I am now and slowly improve with each drawing. Maybe both? But in any case, I wholly agree that practice makes improvement, so I'll keep at it with fervor, even without inspiration! Though I'm not sure what to do if you're out of good ideas (aka what people call inspiration). If you're drawing something and really are not satisfied with it, do you stop and scrap the drawing or continue to the end even though you know you won't like it in the end? Also, I have no reluctance in using references. I absolutely love references and use them for all of my (more serious) drawings. I didn't know people thought using references were cheating until some artists I respect were saying not to feel bad using references. (Imagine my surprise when I heard that. ) But do you think it's possible to be too dependent on references? I almost can't draw hands unless I have a reference. (But then again, I'm not that experienced in art yet...)

A lot of people are concerned about finding their own unique style that people can recognize in an instant. I confess I went through this at one time, but 
I agree that style comes with time and will naturally develop with practice. Good thing I realized this a bit earlier on and didn't stress so much about finding 'my' style! I think I'll spend some time looking at various styles and try them out. It'd be interesting to draw in different styles and then return to my current style. Maybe some of the other styles will naturally soak into my current style. What do you think about modeling your own style after the style of an artist you really admire? 

One more thing about drawing. One thing I struggle with is clothing designs. I see sometimes you have motifs for your characters or think of practicality for their outfits. I have little sense of fashion, and it's difficult to imagine unconventional clothing if I can't see it in my mind. Did you base your characters' clothing on 18th century clothing? Oh, another thing (sorry , I know I said 'ONE more thing'), you don't seem to struggle with this as much, but I somewhat suffer from 'same face syndrome', where my characters kind of have the same eyes, face shapes, and bodies. I don't want to fall back on making my characters distinct from one another by giving them some outrageous outfit or hair color (like some animes I know of...). I heard that a good way to know if your characters are distinct is to look at them naked and bald or to look at their silhouettes. But how should you change them to look more distinct without ruining the original 'feel' of the character? (If that makes sense. Sometimes a character's initial design seems to fit even though it's a bit boring...) This seems to a bit related to similar character personalities.

About cliches, one thing I've been thinking about is how to use them. Say there's the protagonist who overhears some other characters and misunderstands, causing chaos to ensue. Humans are naturally suspicious beings, and that would be the natural response of most us. Yet I know that the readers will groan in horror over this cliche. I've been guilty of this while reading other books or comics, where I'll exclaim that I would never act this way (even though I likely would in real life). Should you just go with the cliche anyway, since it's more realistic, or defy the cliche for the readers' sake even though it's not as reasonable? I'm sure there could be another way to answer this. Such as, you could avoid this whole situation by not making the protagonist be there to overhear others in the first place. Or the protagonist could react differently yet still realistically, like approaching the other characters instead of leaving. Yet, sometimes I feel that some of the worst cliches are still necessary at times in a story. Of course, cliches can still be used well, but most times they probably shouldn't be overused.

I know that's a lot of topics to sift through. Thanks, I just love talking to you! It's always exciting to see your comment in my notifications  .

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-23 12:10:17 +0000 UTC]

Ok, first of all I apology for delaying this answer. I was a bit ill, so yesterday I rushed publishing Artaya and just popped out of my computer and slept. 

Then... let's start! 
Your attitude towards improvement is admirable, and I think it's what you need now in order to developing your drawing skills to the best. Don't mind your insecurities too much (but you already said that, so you're fine) and just keep drawing. 

About style and references, don't worry! Copying something is the best way to improve, and never refuse to look at references. If it bothers you that one of your pieces looks too much to the reference, include the reference on the piece's description. Usually, people is just fine about using that, everyone uses references someway! Also, we're pretty comprehensive as an artist community (I talk about deviantart itself) and we know what struggles every artist has to go through. 
I often mention my references under my pieces, and nobody has ever told me a bad word about those. Plus, without any of those references, my style would probably be "sterile" and lacking personality (so, if you think that without using references you'll have a pure and personal style, no. You won't. Not at the constructing phase. It's like trying to build a castle without any kind of stone because every castle is made of stone and you don't want your castle to be like the others.) 
I used the word "references" a lot, and I think our favourite artists are of course refernces as well. So what I said applies also to the favourite artist's topic. Modeling your style after the style of your masters? Of course! Your personal style will blossom only if you keep practicing, but your masters won't be the final form of your style, just some of the "materials" you use to build your style. So don't worry. Maybe at the beginning you'll feel like you are copying them, but after some time you'll start noticing what you like and dislike about them, and you'll make the further step into recognizing the elements of your style. 

Now: design. Hmmm... clothing and character design in general is heavily determined by your style, and your style is determined by what you like and don't like. For example, I like history, machinery and oriental and middle eastern design. For some time, I've been a steampunk hardcore fan, but then I started distancing myself from those elements that (to my eyes) make steampunk ridiculous or not practical. Say, for example, the habit of putting clock wheels everywhere. Why putting them on your hat? It's not even mechanical! Why those goggles? Goggles are awesome, but if everyone uses them, they become boring! So, I studied lots of steampunk outfits (cosplays, steampunk illustrations, videogames and so on) and I filtered them in order to keep only the things I liked the most. Same goes with historic and folk costumes: research, select, filter, combine, repeat. 
So, if you want to dress your characters in a personal way, you should look at everything you like the most and start saying "this one yes, this one no, I'll keep this detail, this is horrible". And then to combine the elements. This is how I proceed, but I think this way can be walked differently by everyone. 

Same face syndrome. This hurts. 
I'm honoured you say that I don't suffer from same face syndrome, and maybe it's not noticeable in my drawings, but the reality is, I do. 
See, some styles are tailor made for portraying a determined type of character. In shojo manga style, for example, the characters that shine the brightest are very young and beautiful ones. Try putting an old man in a shojo, it will feel like it's not his place. I mean, of course there can be old people made with this style, but they probably aren't appealing like younger characters. 
Others have styles in which they struggle to draw manly males. Or cute females (see 80's european fantasy style, in which the girls look like they could crush skulls with their buttocks) 
So, yes. To some extent, I suffer from this too. I find difficult to draw old people in my style, as well as cute girls (Edine might look cute, but I'm not fully satisfied by her look). 
Take Elio, he should look a bit older. Same goes for Artaya. When I draw Elio in a very realistical way though, it looks perfect: a badass slender man in his fifties, with a glimpse of the hunter from bloodborne.  
So, definitely, I think it's a matter of style and of how much that style is developed. A well developed style will support different faces for different kinds of people. So, as I am doing (and it's not easy) try exploring your newborn style the more you can. 
Then, returning to your answer, I've never studied their silhouettes, simply because they won't have a single silhouette. My characters change outfit very often, just like normal people. Making them naked is not necessary, but it's useful if you want to develope further their looks. For example, Chillet is a gallant and a very friendly and foxy man, while Elio has to look more cold and scary. In european culture (I thing it goes well also for USA and other countries, but I can't speak for the whole world) we think babies are cute and lively, and a cute baby is made of round lines. So Chillet is not very tall, and he is a bit round in his features to give the idea of softness. No slim tights or things like that. On the other hand, we are scared by taller people (we find them intimidating, of course) and we picture death as a skeleton, so bony might be dangerous and evil. It reminds us of hunger and skeletons, so death. And in my story, Elio is a good source of death. 
So, yes, body shapes can help you develope your characters, but I've never made them before the character. Often, I start with a very general sketch and after several attempts I decide which are the best features to choose  

About cliches, I don't follow a precise rule. Simply, when something looks too cliched or feels irritating, I remove the cliche and go for something else. Expecially with fantasy, in which the cliches are more common than orcs in mordor, apparently. 

I'm always pleased to chat with you! I'm looking for the next comment (or you can also find me on facebook for live chat if you want. I'm Margherita Castello, the girl with the surname leevolt) 

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-05-24 05:31:16 +0000 UTC]

Don't push yourself if you're ill! It's perfectly fine if you need time to reply ^-^.

So about styles: I sometimes find it confusing when I find that someone's style has drastically changed in perhaps the span of a month or even a week. Of course, artists can choose to draw in different styles, especially if they find one style more fitting for the atmosphere of a piece than another style. But I know some artists who've drawn in a certain style for years and then suddenly shift to a completely different style for many more years. This has never happened to me, unless you count scribbles from an extremely young age, and I wonder how such a shift can happen, and so suddenly. If you're unhappy with your style but you don't know why, what should you do? (This is more of just a speculation, as I'm not unhappy with my 'style', just wanting to improve). 

About design, I haven't done much research on clothing designs. I can say that there are certain styles I will steer clear of, but there aren't any I especially prefer. There are so many eras to choose from, it's a bit overwhelming. Do you know what the main styles of clothing design are? (Such as steampunk, Victorian, modern, etc.) Or should I just research styles based on different historical eras? (although steampunk isn't very historical, as I understand). 

Same face syndrome: What exactly makes all the characters look the same? Is it the eyes, the proportions, or the face shape? Actually, I think it might be different for each person. In my case, it's probably the eyes and the face shape. When drawing faces, I don't consciously consider the bone structures, the age, or type of atmosphere I want them to give off. I'm still exploring hairstyles, but in terms of the kind of aura I want a character to give off, I usually use the expression to get that across, which can be a bit troublesome because my characters will likely have a vast array of expressions. How then will I be able to keep their distinctive feel without their trademark expression? I like what you said about using cultural/stereotypical understandings to bring a certain feel to a character. It makes sense what you said about your characters Elio and Chillet. I'll start thinking about that with my characters (though they're a little bit less unique than yours). But how much do you think face shape plays into a distinctive character design? I think face shape is necessary when showing the age of a character, but the facial proportions also plays into that. I think sometimes we might just have to rely on character interactions and the hairstyle/hair color (unfortunately). Well, let's say there are two handsome boys who are the same age and probably the same height and face shape. It might be a bit cliche, but one might have a 'dark' theme to him and the other might have a 'light' theme to him. It'd be a fantastic contrast to have two similarly designed characters to have completely different ways of acting and outlooks. But I haven't done this before, so I'm not sure if it'll work and actually be a good way of contrasting. Usually, contrasting characters will have contrasting appearances. What do you think?

Right now, I'm working on a story that has a minimal plot and mostly focuses on the characters' interactions (like a slice of life genre, I guess). I've mainly decided to invest my time in it because I know that drawing a comic can be one of the best ways to practice and improve your art. Well, the plot doesn't exactly satisfy me completely, and I want to be thinking of another story. A bigger one that I can really invest in. I have an inkling of an idea of what I want. I mainly want to focus on the characters and their inner emotions and turmoil. I especially want the main character to have to go through some very tough situations and perhaps not be able to overcome them. It'll likely be set in a vague historical time (haven't exactly narrowed it down yet). The problem is, I feel like I'm starting the story from my characters. Basically, I have no idea what kind of plot the story would have. I know the vague outline of the genre, setting, and characters, but I've yet to actually think of a plot, and a substantial one at that. I don't want to have to fall back onto the 'hero goes after a Macguffin and defeats the big bad boss' plot, and even if I do, I want to make it my own. Is it bad to start a story based on the characters? I find that I often start stories based on a single character that I want to write/draw about, but the story doesn't survive because of the paper thin plot it has. Obviously you don't need to start off with an extremely strong plot either, but I don't have much of a plot at all. How did you first start to develop the plot of your story and decide kind of the main themes and ideas it would be about? 
   I was also thinking of maybe trying to combine a lot of my discarded stories into this one future project I want to do. There's always been bits and pieces that I've wanted to write about, but they're nowhere near enough to fuel a story. What do you think about combining all these aspects into one grand story? I like the idea but am worried that they might not fit with the story I want to make and just be there merely because I'm forcing it in.

Anyway, that's all for today . It's nice to hear your thoughts on all of this. Despite the millions of aspiring story-tellers, I've never really met one who was willing to speak at length about stories. Seeing your new character Artaya makes me even more excited for your story! I hope you'll reveal more soon...  I know it will be fantastic for sure.

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-05-29 15:54:44 +0000 UTC]

Oh, here I am! Sorry for the long delay dear! I had some slightly troubled days. 

So, let's start with your awesome questions.
Style change: it is not bad to change style (even suddently), simply because we have little decisional power in matter of style. I think that if I am unhappy with my style, I'll naturally try to change minimal choices in it, but nothing is calculated. For example, I never think that my "style" is good or bad, because I'm still in the moment in which there are some little differences between every piece I make. So I can say I like something about a piace and I like a little less the effects or the mood I added to another one. I'm currently very satisfied with my ID work, Glorious Grave, so I'm currently shaping my drawings in that style, since I feel like it's the way of working which better represents me. 

If you want to improve (as everyone does) just try to pick the best style choices of your favourite artists or of whatever inspires you and transmit them to your drawings. So, if I like some sort of flowing stylization, I'll add it. Flowery patterns are my cup of tea, I'll add it. Folk design jumps in the train, I'll add it. Then, when the drawing is finished, people say "what a personal style you have", but they ignore all the individual elements which are always gradually changing my style. 

Well, about clothing styles, Of course there are as many as the ethnic groups of all the eras of the world, but (speaking at least for mainstream Western fashion) you can define styles by century. So there is the XII century style, the XIV century style, the XVIII century style, and then, as the industrial revolution spreaded, style varies by decade and not by century. 1810's style (Napoleonic era) is totally different from 1880's style (Victorian era). As for XX century, we go by decade as well. 1920's style is pretty iconic, 1950's, 1960's and 1970's as well. You see? Each decade has a distinct soul. If you're interested in ancient and worldwide ethnic style, I recommend you "the costume history" by Auguste Racinet, which is a colour encyclopedia of style from antiquity to 1888. I have the taschen edition if you want to buy it. Another great source of style inspiration are museums and folk costume, or historic revivals. Of course then there is fantasy style, but I often find it too "fake". See, each costume has an original purpose and a series of "codes" which determined its development and final form. In my opinion, if you want to build great fantasy costumes, always start from a reliable source. Like "this elven people lives in a deep temperate forest and they mostly live of hunting and gathering"=study various costumes of ethnic groups who live in forests and have a similar life. Then you can modify those costumes as you want, but you'll start with functional clothes, and in my opinion functionality is part of the aesthetic even more than the decorations, because it helps you and the reader to feel the "substance" of your fictional characters. 

Same face syndrome: surely the issues are different for each style and each artist, but in order to answer to what you asked me: yes, facial features are extremely important. Don't fall in the trap of "different hairstyle, same face", because it makes the characters forgettable. See, one of the things that make manga very loved is the fact that the characters' faces (expecially teen's ones) are very similar to each other. This "style code" makes the anime/manga spectator (often a child or a teen) fully immersed in the mood and totally identified with those "faceless" characters. Do you know which is the character who we feel represented by the most? Stickman. The simpler the character, the most identification you'll have from your readers. So avoid the hairstyle trap if you want characters with a complex personality, and try to blend these two opposite to make a character which is both a person of his own and a possible source of immedesimation

About how to work with archetypes and shapes (Elio/slim=uncomfortable, Chillet/round=comfortable) just keep in mind that faces work the same. Ever wondered why manga girls all have round faces and eyes? Now you know

Dark and Light opposed characters are a common trope, but they are so deeply connected with our concept of duality that basically everyone has their own. Play with this trope as you want, and try to stay original! (I have a light/dark pairing myself, so I assure you it's possible and very funny). 

Now, creating a story from your character: since your story is a "slice of life" one, you're doing it right! Start with daily situations, like character interactions when one has to go to the toilet, one discovers fridge is empty, cat poopes and so on. Try to switch the characters. What happens if the same character tries to hug each character to discover their reactions? (latest comic strip by tracyjb, creator of Lackadaisy. Go see it on deviantart to know what I'm talking about) I'm sure you've already thought of your own interactions for your characters. They more they "play" these interactions, the more you'll develope some sort of "daily life plot". 
Combining aspects of other projects into one is fine, and if you try to add them, you'll see by yourself what you want to keep and what you want to discard after a while. 

I hope I answered a bit and I can't wait for your answer!

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-06-04 00:20:23 +0000 UTC]

Hi again! I've been a bit sick these past few days, so sorry.  And I hope everything fine on your end!

Your style is one style that I really think is unique. I've never seen anything like it, really. What artists did you draw inspiration from or how did you develop this style? Even your coloring fits with your style, and you've got those amazing textures too. I've also seen artists who never actually find their own definite style. They pick two or three to draw in and that seems to work. I'm not at a level where I can accomplish that. Every style that's not 'mine' would just be drawn in another artist's style. There's also to consider what sort of direction to continue in. Some art, the line art isn't very important, so drawing very detailed hair wouldn't really fit the style. I like the look of detailed hair but probably won't completely draw detailed hair since it seems to take a lot of time and is geared toward certain genres of manga. But I will try it out just for fun. Maybe it actually won't take as much time as I think, and the result may feel worth it! (My list of art goals has just grown higher.) 

I've also been thinking about what kind of ears I want to draw. Something so small compared to the rest of the human body really has a lot of variation to it. Not to mention real ears have variation to them as well. And another thing about eyes as well. Eyes (to me) seem to play a really big part in art (specifically manga art or comics) because of how much expression they hold. I see a lot of manga artists thicken a character's eyelashes quite a large amount and indiscriminately too, for both male and female, young or old. Sometimes I do like the thickened eyelashes, but there are times when I think there's a problem with that. I have a character who likes to put on a lot of makeup, and she's almost never seen without makeup. The thing is when she takes off the makeup, she's supposed to look very different than her usual self (like some people in real life do). If everyone else seems to be wearing thick eyeliner too, then it doesn't really look like she's wearing makeup. So right now, I tend to draw thinner eyelashes, yet I'm not satisfied with that somehow. The eyes I draw are also generally more narrow. I see a lot of manga artists draw bigger eyes for females (even if the female is tough and manly). I detest overly large eyes like the ones in shojo manga, but bigger eyes are necessary for younger characters. I'll be trying out different eye sizes to find what I like best. But I see that your character Stilo has quite large eyes despite being (presumably) and adult. Granted, he seems shorter in height than most. Did you give him larger eyes to fit with his circular/rounded theme?

And what do you think of 'crazy' hairstyles? Manga is notorious for insane, unrealistic styles (not counting hair color), which may account for why a lot of manga artists heavily depend on unique hairstyles to tell characters apart. I've read countless times that because manga is black and white, a lot of artists created these anti-gravity hairstyles to distinguish the characters apart.  Now, realistically, these hairstyles would make no sense, but stylistically, I think some are pretty appealing even if no one would ever have such a hairstyle. You seem to have chosen varying hairstyles for your characters that are stylistic but also have realism in them. I guess I'm wondering how do you decide on character hairstyles and how should I go about deciding on hairstyles for my characters? And about hair color, anime and manga seem to make it work, but I can honestly only consider realistic colors and white. What do you think about odd hair color? (I guess not taking into account people who dye their hair odd colors. )

Thanks for that example with Lackadaisy. That really showed me where to take my characters. Oh, but sometimes, I get really used to a character I created and it's very difficult to change them even though I know they're unoriginal or a duplicate of another character. They just seem to 'fit' with my other characters even though they're not satisfying at all. Do you suggest abandoning such a character or trying to change them despite how hard it is? Perhaps I could strip that character down to their exact role and why they seem to fit so well with the others despite being boring and then make a new character with the same role but more unique personality. Like for example, remember my two characters that seemed to react identically to the same situations? I was thinking of how to change them to make them more distinctive. They both had different backgrounds and family life, but their resulting attitude was nearly the exact same. I wanted to change one of them (preferably the one I came up with more recently), but it was hard to change him when I was already 'satisfied' with him. I wanted to change him to be more unique, and yet another part insisted he fit perfectly with the story. I can't seem to understand why... This character is especially special because I created him merely because I wanted another male character in the group of characters I had. Maybe I felt like something was missing with that group of characters, but now I'm starting to think he isn't actually needed, and I was actually introducing an irrelevant concept that clashed with the story. Something that seemed added at the last minute for the sake of having a new character.

Oh, and I haven't even asked about pacing, but I'd like to hear your thoughts first! Thanks for taking time to discuss this with me. You're very quite helpful.  

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leevolt In reply to Ruani [2017-06-05 13:26:33 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for your compliments on my style. 
The artists i take ispiration upon are various, and they often change as I change "style phase" or "mood".
Some evergreens are Gustav Klimt, byzanthine art, russian illustration and Felix Colgrave (check that guy out, I love him) 
As for this phase (spring/early summer 2017) I could add Maruti-Bitamin (you can find her on Instagram! She has a wildly watercoloured manga style, and I adore it), CanisAlbus on Deviantart for the lineart, and faQy, always on deviantart, for her wonderful folkish characters. 

As you can see, I don't have a definitive answer for myself, but as I previously wrote to you, don't worry to use someone's style as an inspiration. The more you explore other people's styles, the more you'll be able to build your own. 

As for hair, at the end it's made of lines. So, you can build medium-stylized hair as I do if you don't want to spend too much time on it. Focusing on the shape of the mass of hair will help you to know how to draw hair. You know, drawing every single hair won't take you anywhere, it will just looks weird, because you need a base. After you have this base, you can draw some single hairs, but don't exaggerate that  drawing-tutorials.deviantart.c…

Just browse some tutorials and decide which hair is the hair you want on your characters' heads!

Then eyes, you hit an important point (I just bypassed ears as they surely are important, but once you know how to draw them realistically, you'll be able to shape them in any style. Try to believe).
Eyes are almost everything in a character. They have to harmonize with the character's shape for sure, and they should vary for males, females, babies and elders. As you're drawing in manga style, i don't have any advice for you, bu try to look at some manga styles which focus on natural eyelashes. Maybe, if your character has fair lashes, the contrast between her with makeup and her without it will be more striking. Also, play with eyeshadow to enhance the makeup effect. Ever tried to see a picture of Elsa from Frozen without makeup? She looks like an ordinary swedish schoolgirl. 

About Stilo... errr... well, his round eyes are not made just to harmonize with his shape. Stilo and Jules

   (here are the boys)

actually belong to another species in my universe. Their species (commonly referred as "munchkins", as I still don't have a proper name for it) has an average height of 1 meter and 20 centimeters, and they have bigger heads, reptile eyes and venomous gecko-like teeth. The only human thing you could find on them is probably the flesh they are digesting (just kidding! They would never eat other sentient beings!). So, surely round eyes fit their shape, but it's been made on purpose because they are another species. 

Hair colour: I try to go a little more realistical, as personally I don't like exaggerated hairstyles. They just don't belong to my style. Anyway, there are some odd variations on "normal" colours: Stilo's hair, for example, is jet-black, but I paint enhanced blue reflexes on it because it looks cool. Hair itself is not blue, but the reflexes look like it is. Also, there is a species who is totally furred, and their fur covers a vast array of colours, from albino-white to all shades of grey, ancient pink, brown, black, fox-red, nut brown and deep red. They also have some lilac shades, so you will be able to see characters in my story with deep red  or lilac hair, but always with a "natural" tone.  
(As an example, my beloved Musa belongs to this species). So, as long as it looks natural enough, I love all colours for hair! I think that what makes hair look "sinthethic" is either an odd hairstyle or exaggerate colours (like neon ones) or multiple different colours on the same hair (like black/green mix or rainbow). 

 

If you're satisfied with a character, I wouldn't tell you to remove it. Change him in order to fit the story? If you manage to have the right inspiration, of course! I often change my characters, but not until I have a truly fitting idea. You know, that kind of ideas that makes you wonder why you didn't think about it before. Until then, don't stop on your character, or it will become an obstacle. Just move the story and the other characters forward, and if it's needed, the remainng "young" character will move on as well.

Hope it was helpful, at least a little bit!
(also, forgive me for my grammar errors. If you spot badly written sentences in my comments and feel the urge to correct me, you'll do me a favor). 

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Ruani In reply to leevolt [2017-06-10 06:17:38 +0000 UTC]

Ah, I've heard of Felix Colgrave before! His art is quite interesting, and his animation is skilled. I've never heard of Maruti-Bitamin, but after looking at her art, it kind of reminds me of Pearlgraygallery 's art. I think they use similar materials. A lot of people use watercolor, but somehow their watercolor art seems different. The paper texture and their styles probably have something to do with it. You seem to prefer more of a storybook, folksy kind of style. Do you like manga style or just haven't done much with it?

And thank you for telling me about those tutorials. I will probably need them in the future. I've been writing stories for a long time, so most of my imagination was supposed to be left up to the reader. (As you know, excessive descriptions can be a bit boring.) I struggle to think up of clothing outfits and hairstyles. Some manga artists (and I'm sure many others) say that they draw ideas from fashion magazines and such. This seems like a useful idea since most of what I draw comes from what I've seen on TV or the internet (i.e. real people's fashion choices or what people draw). Clothing can also add some personality to a character. I'm sure more practical people will wear more practical clothing, even if they dress up formally.

As for hair, I admire those shojo manga artists who can draw such beautifully detailed hair, but it's definitely not for me. I'm sure not even realistic artists draw every strand of hair (if they did, that's far too much effort in my opinion ). As humans, our eyes are (apparently) lazy and sort of glaze over every strand of hair and see it as a clump. Hair motion is also something I want to learn. When someone is fighting, their hair (if it's long) goes all over the place! It can really show more movement if the hair is done correctly. As for (really) short hair, I can't imagine how much it moves.

I think making a feature on purposely clashing with the overall motifs of a character can work sometimes. I didn't know Stilo and Jules were a different species, but now that you pointed it out, I can definitely see the similarities. (In all honesty, I should have figured that out on my own, but I can be blind sometimes ). Also, I absolutely agree with you on the realistic hair colors. Some people can pull off dyeing their hair bright, neon colors... but in my eyes, most of them can't. In advertisements, product labels, you name it, any gross bright colors will sear my eyes into oblivion. I prefer something more pastel-like if unnatural colors are necessary. Anime fans are probably more used to such colors (from bright green to 'electric' blue), though I think even in anime, the hair color is more moderate in terms of neon brightness. Hair color can also be used to convey some sort of impression the character gives. In anime (or perhaps art in general), white hair either means innocence/purity or evil, cold, and sociopathic. Or it's for the elderly, in realistic worlds. 

(A random question: I've seen 'red'heads, whose hair color is more orange than red. Are there any actual red-colored hair? All the 'natural red hair' I search on the internet seem to be natural-looking dye, not what they're born with. Something insignificant I've puzzled over for far too long.)

One thing I want to get into is drawing fight scenes. I don't know much about your story, but does it have action in it? A lot of fight scenes I've seen (the well-done ones, anyway) are fluid and easy to follow. I can't seem to understand how the artists understand how to create fight scenes. I'm sure most of them don't know how to fight, so where do they get ideas for actions taken in a fight? (Do they look to movies or other works?) Some is common sense, sure. If someone comes at you with a knife, you'll try to disarm them somehow and evade the knife. Maybe aim for their weak spot or open area (like their legs, or something). I know your story doesn't have magic in it, but if fights occur in a story with magic... my fight scenes likely won't be satisfying at all. Should I take 'basic' fight scenes and modify them to fit something with magic or other variables? (And I've always wondered why people didn't end the fight by kicking the guy's... private area. (if it is a guy.) I mean, I know it's looked down upon, but it's a desperate fight. I mean, anything goes, right? ). 

About pacing and exposition: revealing exposition is different in art than in prose, because art can use backgrounds for world-building. Dumping exposition on the audience overwhelms them and isn't seen as very skilled pacing. How do you plan out giving exposition? For example, you have some new species that no one really knows of. How would you reveal what they were without dumping information? (I presume the characters in the story already know of the species, which is why it'd be weird for them to give exposition about the species unless it's purely for the audience's sake). By the way, do you plan for your story to be more of a comic, graphic novel, or a long vertical strip webtoon?

(I really do appreciate all your advice, grammar mistakes and all. ;D)

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-14 10:31:32 +0000 UTC]

Thank you very much! I'm glad you recognized some sort of animal influence in his design, because it worked exactly that way. Actually, I was aiming for a swallow-ish look, but I agree with you. (and also, black swan... wow ) 

The funny thing is that his district (if I'll ever upload a picture of him with his tattoos in plain sight) is represented by a stylized moth, so no birds are involved here  

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-14 17:36:48 +0000 UTC]

Swallow... ah I could see the beak of the swallow now!
Somewhere around the armour covering his neck?

And a lone bird in his district...! How fascinating!

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-15 09:13:31 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, the design of the neck armour and that of the mask can look like a bird's beak if combined. Not a particularly clever choice in matter of armour design (it would be uncomfortable and dangerous to fight with that kind of spikes around your neck, I think), but this guy has that neck armour since his very first days in 2012, so this is it.

And thank you for your compliments! The love you deviantart people show to my works (as well as your thoughts about them) are the greater part of the fuel that moves my project forward.

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-15 20:49:45 +0000 UTC]

True, it does look a little hazardous with that sharp edge at his chin...
I believe he is graceful enough to avoid that, though >w<

We really support your project! It is especially fascinating to see how you put your style into your work... I think it has a really unique way about it. I want to dig in more into your stories, too!

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-15 21:11:08 +0000 UTC]

What to say... I'm flattered, thank you! 
Seriously!

Ummm... you've come here in the right moment, dear. Because after seven years of trembling and decision changing, I'm finally putting the pieces of the story together, and for the first time. I'll add a quick synopsis in my gallery's description, but feel free to chat with me by note if you want to know more. I really like to chat and to discover other people's views about the story!

Or, you can try to guess something from the sheets. they're not terribly explicative of the characters and even less of the story (I never liked those sheets that are overly filled with info and instantly make you hate both the character and the story), but I put lots of little hints here and there. I had some fun making them, this is for sure!

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-15 23:15:53 +0000 UTC]

You're very welcome (;

...Ah, so all these characters really had a long time coming. I am glad you've decided to piece it together and share it with deviantArt, though. It is not always easy, I think.
I've been studying the character profile for a bit and trying to map out things, and I'll definitely tune in to explore more! This all seems really promising...

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-16 09:50:15 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad you're intrigued! Time will show where all of this is going, because I still don't have a precise idea. Anyway, I wanted to introduce the characters at least, and you can't believe the amount of happiness I get seeing thet they are this appreciated. 

And yes, this is a very old project. I started it when I was fourteen, so you can guess the amount of changes the story and the characters went through. Elio, for example: although his outfit never changed too much, he started as some sort of berserker hitman (I don't even know if that makes sense, plus it had shark teeth and white eyes). He then became an evil knight, then a weird thing that could run on walls like spiderman, then (god forgive me for I have sinned) a bdsm partner for another character that I prefer not to mention. Now he's what he is now, a professional bodyguard, a friend for few and a pain in the ass for everyone else. 

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-16 22:18:10 +0000 UTC]

With these diverse characters with unique back stories, I believe this world is already already going somewhere... (:
And, whoa, that's indeed a lot of changes Elio went through! I am glad he is what he is now, though.
I'll wait as you unveil other characters!

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-16 22:59:07 +0000 UTC]

Ah, I wish it would be true. But maybe this world exists anyway, in some mental dimension or stuff like that. 

Hmmm... I still have to decide the character for the next one. 
Eeeny meeny moe, quick answer: thief or caravan leader? 

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-16 23:10:58 +0000 UTC]

Perhaps! In another dimension, this world thrives with its null existence...
Oh! Caravan leader sounds really cool, actually! I'd say caravan leader would be much more interesting to explore and develop than a thief, a character background that has been... quite overused.
But, of course, the choice belongs to you!

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-16 23:14:39 +0000 UTC]

Caravan leader will be then. Wait for Mr. Saskin on Monday

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-16 23:17:48 +0000 UTC]

Will do! I'm excited o(*≧▽≦)ツ

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-16 23:48:24 +0000 UTC]

Wait, are you a Journey (the game) fan? My traveller'senses are tingling...

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-17 01:19:25 +0000 UTC]

Oh I *love* Journey! I guess choosing a caravan leader over a thief gave me away...? Hehe. Your sense is very accurate! ｄ(･∀･*)♪ﾟ

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-17 08:54:09 +0000 UTC]

Aaaaah, Journey changed everything about my project, and I should say it changed a little but important bit of my life. Even if I've played it lots of times (and now, knowing what will happen, the main journey is not as exciting as it was the first times, since I basically cheer the guardians like "hey buddy, what's up? Patrolling submerged cities as always?), the end, when we walk in the light and disappear in the one whose white energy expands to the whole screen, not needing our scarfs and our shapes anymore... it always, always makes me cry. It feels like a beautiful stab in my stomach everytime. 

So yes, I love journey a whole lot. Chirp and armless hug to you, wanderer. 

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-19 21:25:28 +0000 UTC]

I totally agree with you... it is one of those game that I am going to remember for a long time.
And I somehow am not surprised that it brought impact to your project, and even your life XD
Good games are like that... they change you a little during that experience and make you think...
Ah, hearing other people talking about this game gave me so much feels... I've never played it myself but I watched others play it. That final moment is really, as you said, a "beautiful stab" that left me in the air, somehow thinking and not thinking at the same time.

Chirrups and nuzzles to you, too, my wandering comrade.

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leevolt In reply to Pencil-Fairytale [2017-05-20 17:30:01 +0000 UTC]

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Pencil-Fairytale In reply to leevolt [2017-05-20 20:54:16 +0000 UTC]

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leevolt In reply to SlandyElf [2017-05-07 17:38:10 +0000 UTC]

Oh, grazie mille! 

Non ti preoccupare, commenta pure come preferisci! 
E beh, riguardo al suo design, lui è uno di quei personaggi che disegno un po' diversi ogni volta. Anche se ci sono alcune cose che non cambiano mai: 
-il suo collo, che non necessita di commenti
-la sua maschera è sempre in grado di bucare i fogli di carta col naso 
-nonostante egli debba essere un uomo che si approssima alla cinquantina, ha un culo più bello del mio.

Vorrei chiederti una cosa: siccome il mio schermo del pc ha i colori sballati e ogni volta che posto qualcosa mi fa andare in paranoia, mi sai dire se per te i toni generali di questo disegno sono più sul verdino con le luci beige o sono più sul grigio/viola? Dovrebbe trovarsi comodamente nel mezzo...

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SlandyElf In reply to leevolt [2017-05-07 17:47:11 +0000 UTC]

Tranquilla!

-Hmmm... Le luci sono un via del mezzo tra grigio/viola e beige, quindi il tuo computer è perfettamente sano! (Oppure il tuo computer e il mio tablet sono sballati entrambi). Comunque i colori sono sulla via del mezzo tra beige e viola/grigia dal mio tablet. (Scusa per le ripetizioni XD)
-Un giorno, giuro che comprerò una maschera identica alla sua, così posso bucare gli occhi della gente col naso oltre i fogli di carta. 
-Il suo sedere è perfetto anche da seduto 👌, inoltre nemmeno il mio sedere è una meraviglia (assomiglia a un non so cosa, ha una forma non umana).

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leevolt In reply to SlandyElf [2017-05-07 17:57:59 +0000 UTC]

Ok, grazie mille! 
Beh, sapere che i colori sono più o meno gli stessi mi dà una certa tranquillità. 

Credimi, non serve una maschera del genere per bucare gli occhi alla gente, basta avere un naso come il mio. ti sei mai chiesta perchè i miei personaggi abbiano tutti dei nasi così appuntiti? ora sai il perchè. 

Mi spiace per il tuo sedere! Beh, sei ancora giovane, prima o poi prenderà una forma definitiva, umana o aliena che sia. Comunque, anche allora il sedere di Elio sarà il più bello del reame, deal with it.
   

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SlandyElf In reply to leevolt [2017-05-07 18:03:53 +0000 UTC]

In ogni caso il tuo naso è sicuramente migliore del mio, i nasi appuntiti mi sono sempre piaciuti... Mentre il mio assomiglia ad una patata, e se indosso un paio di occhiali da sole sembra fatto di plastica bagnata.


Nessuno può battere il sedere di Elio, lui è il top del top. Nicki Minaj, Jennifer Lopez, un mio compagno di classe ed altra gente a caso possono solo inchinarsi al suo cospetto   

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leevolt In reply to SlandyElf [2017-05-07 18:10:39 +0000 UTC]

in realtà conosco una disegnatrice bravissima che sta pubblicando un webcomic in cui tutti i maschietti hanno un culetto talmente divino che emana luce celeste anche quando è buio, ma siccome non mi pagano per farle pubblicità non metto nessun link   
la legge del pesce più grosso pare sia applicabile anche ai culi, insomma.

la disegnatrice si chiama whitefoxcub e il suo webcomic Thicker Than Blood 

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