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Published: 2011-01-03 23:19:05 +0000 UTC; Views: 19501; Favourites: 879; Downloads: 0
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Photographer: Moritz Maibaum [link]Mua: myself
Cross made by Moritz Maibaum
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Comments: 259
I am aware of that is what some Christians say in order to excuse a lot of the things that the old testament says that is abhorrent, yes. However, it doesn't excuse the fact that it IS there or take away the implication that, to the old testament's version of God, these things like rape, slavery, animal and human sacrifice are acceptable.
It also doesn't change the highly amusing fact that most Christians will go "Oh that's the old testament law it doesn't count" when talking about the Bible's pro-rape/pro-slavery/pro-ritual-sacrifice stance. However, they are more than happy to quote old testament law when it's something they WANT to say God is against that fits with their social agenda, like for example denying homosexuals equal rights.
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Uh, I'm pretty sure the only human sacrifices were that of other gods.
There was one time God asked a man to sacrifice his son as a test. But at the last moment he stopped him.
And now you understand what I meant by "twisting it's words"
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You are talking about Abraham and Issac. And yes, God told Abraham to ritually murder his son then said "Just kidding, wanted to see if you'd do it." And yes, Issac lived and was not killed.
However, you are incorrect that was the only incident. There are many old testament stories that involve God demanding human and animal sacrifice. And that doesn't even begin to cover the stories of the passover slaughter of the innocent first born Jewish children, the calls to burn nonbelievers, the call to murder the children of cities that were not "right with god" and so on.
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It wasn't really a "just kidding." But I can see what you mean.
Mmm... Now I'll have to look into that, you've brought up a good point.
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I always said that I could never be a Christian because I love God too much. Seriously, the Old Testament stories about God seem to be more about a frightening psychotic than a loving creator. If THAT God is my father than call CPS immediately.
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Haha, I fallow all that Jesus taught myself.
I look at the old stories and kinda see how it links together with the new and in a way it does.
But as I said, I believe in God and Jesus. And I live by what Jesus taught. I love everyone no matter what they are.
As I once said. It's all about what you believe to be right.
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I mean, that's cool I don't really hold anyone's beliefs against them. It's just that I find so many Christians, a large majority of them even, just have NO IDEA how dark and bizarre a lot of what the Bible actually says is. They're just spoon fed the parts that people want them to know about. Not to mention all the cherry picking that's done in order to support social and political agendas.
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Trust me, I know.
I can't stand the illogicalness I find some times.
I hate how they try to take it and twist it.
I myself have been told I'd go to hell if I didn't go to church.
Uhh... isn't it Jesus that save me not the church?
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Save you from what?
If find the idea that God will torture someone for all eternity unless they are "Saved" by some kind of spiritual loophole "IE Following the right religious figure" morally repulsive. And, as I don't believe God is morally repulsive I reject that notion.
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-shrugs- A life of cold heartedness is how I see it.
And it's not that God wants to torture people and send them to hell. in fact he loves us all.
But it's hard to explain some things....
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So, all people who aren't Christian are cold-hearted? I think if you go out and actually meet people and talk to them you'll find very quickly that isn't the case.
And if God loves all people, why would God condemn to be tortured everyone EXCEPT those who happen to believe in Christan?
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No no, thats not what I meant.
I meant that the people who would kill in cold blood or worse, deserve something done in the end.
But just because they aren't Christian doesn't mean they are evil. In fact I have friends of different faiths and we get along just fine.
-shrugs- "For who ever believes in me will have eternal life" -Jesus
I'm afraid I can't answer that one.
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I think if you'll study it rationally you'll find that most people who do evil things (rape, murder, child molestation etc.) are mentally ill/victims of abuse/have chemical imbalances in their brain etc. And I don't believe someone should be TORTURED IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY because they were psychologically and mentally and emotionally damaged.
As for that quote, yes it's not like I've never heard that. Essentially what you're telling me is "My religion is right because my religion says that my religion is right." Which, as you know, logically has no merit. A large majority of major religions say in their religion that their religion is the right religion. So what?
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Hell is reserved for Satan and his followers. <(fallen angels) The reason everyone else will end up there is because of a severed relationship with God caused by Sin. We don't become sinful because we 'do the wrong things', but rather, it is a state in which we are born. (we can't make the mark because we've already missed it) God is a all-loving God (and people won't hesitate to mention that), BUT He is also a just and righteous God who cannot tolerate Sin. Thus, we are all doomed for an eternity in this place called Hell...
BUT, because God loves us and because He wants us to have a personal relationship with Him (not to mention He wants us to spend eternity with Him), He provided a way for this broken relationship to be mended. Jesus Christ, God's Son, is that way. He died for us to make it possible. He experienced the total shame and humiliation of every Sin of the world. (of everyone that ever was and everyone that ever will be) The Bible says that at that moment when Jesus took the Sins of the world, even God Himself could not look upon Him.
Because of Jesus, we all have been given the free gift of Salvation. (we can't do anything to make ourselves 'better') The only thing that someone needs to do is accept it. That's all.
These murderers and rapists will all spend eternity separated from God if they do not ask for His forgiveness. (just as everyone else will)
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Why do Christians seem to think that non-Christians don't know what their religion teaches and expect us to be somehow enlightened or surprised when they tell us? Seriously.
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Well, it didn't seem like you knew a minute ago...
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Of course I've heard it it's just not very logical that's all.
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So they can get away with it?
No maybe not for forever. But something.
Seeing as to how much more damage it's done to my friends who HAVE been thru that kind of stuff.
And now you're forcing words in my mouth.
I never said it was right because it said so.
I believe what I believe.
I'm not sitting here telling you what you should and shouldn't.
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Please understand, I'm not discounting spiritual and karmic retribution. I'm merely talking about the Christian idea of eternal hell. Don't make the common mistake of thinking it's either Christianity or Nothing.
And I didn't force words into your mouth. I was only pointing out that you can't quote where Christianity claims that it's the right religion as evidence that it is. It's circular logic and won't fly.
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I understand your point.
I only quoted it because it was all I knew of your question.
Thats all.
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And don't think I hate Christians or anything. I just think that, as a religion it has a lot to be desired. That's not to say I have anything against people to follow it. I know for most people in the modern western world it's the only spiritual outlet that they're exposed to, or follow openly without being met with opposition. And, looking for other spiritual outlets can be really difficult. So, again I don't hold it against anyone.
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But believe me when I say it's not like we don't get hate for it....
The moment someone says God you will either get "I agree!" or "You're stupid!"
It's hard for everyone on any side.
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Oh, I'm sorry but trust me. Any 'flack' you might get from atheist or something is nothing like what gay people, Muslim Americans, Wiccans/Neopagans, etc. have to put up with from the majority of the Christian population. Believe me.
Complaining about being given a hard time because you're Christian to someone who does not belong to the conservative mainstream is like going up to someone in a 3rd world country who is dying from malnutrition and saying "Ohh but I was in a restraint with slow service once!"
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Madam, you really need to do your homework about religious intolerance and the marginalization of women in america and how it has been perpetuated by the liberal left and liberal media before you unload pure, hyperbolic, hysteria like this.
But you won't, because its simply easier to believe the ridiculous cartoon that christians and conservatives are the only bigots; the only racists; the only sexists and the only religious zealots bent on creating and lobbying for laws that shackle all who oppose their world view.
Look at your comments. You complain about being a victim of marginalization and religious intolerance yet turn around and do the exact same thing to others; you can barely create a sentence without qualifying as a non-christian and how a christians view is fundamentally flawed just because its christian.
You want equal treatment yet insist that your experience is more valid than someone elses becasue your a witch or because your gay or whatever uniform you insist on broadcasting and hedging before each talking point.
Look in the mirror - maybe you are the one who is intolerant
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Excuse me?
I like how you launched into this speech you memorized from Fox News, but I think you've completely missed what I was saying. I never said or intended half the things in this rant. But, if it seemed that way I apologize.
But, try more of that I say "Christianity has been used for oppression" and magically turn it into "All Christians are bad". You might even notice I said quite plainly I have no problems with what Christians believe, but my only problem is them trying to make their religious beliefs law in the name of "Family Values."
I don't support oppressing or marginalizing anyone. I just don't believe in giving people free rides because their religion happens to be in the majority.
What's wrong with that?
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Ahhh...so im a Fox News drone then.
"I don't support oppressing or marginalizing anyone. I just don't believe in giving people free rides because their religion happens to be in the majority."
And yet you're continually blind to the fact that you're completely marginalizing "people" whos "religion is in the majority" with the very structure of your sentences and reply.
You even begin your reply by instantly attempting to marginalizing me as a fox news bot who cant form thier own opinion and then "apologize", but this isnt really an apology at all since your only sorry that I missed something you never said or didnt intend to rant about, lol - as if that makes any sense whatsoever.
No, miss, I havent missed one thing you've said. You've made the assumption that im taking issue with what you believe. I could care less what you believe or how you choose to believe it.
What im doing is pointing out your hypocricy and the fact that you can't argue your case - which is as patently false as it is unsupported - without assigning the person your debating with to a stereotype, i.e. marginalizing.
You cant see it and dont want to
I hope you get past it and open your mind.
God bless you.
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...my best friend is a wiccan.
One of my ex friends was bi. [< he kinda back stabbed me real bad so yeah]
trust me, it's just as bad.
You have no idea what I've been put thru.
I get things from other so called Christans!
And then theres what I get from everyone else....
It's a war on all sides.
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I'm by, and I don't consider myself Wiccan but I am a neopagan and identify as a witch.
And I'm sorry if you've had a hard life but believe me, the flack Christians can get is NOTHING compared to what people who don't belong to the only religion American takes seriously gets put through.
But poor you, maybe one day we'll have laws that pander to Christian Conservative beliefs and maybe... even.. a christian president!
Oh wait... that's all of them...
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I am not asking for your pity.
I'm saying I understand.
But whatever.
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I'm sorry, it's just the hard reality. I can't marry someone of my own gender largely because of laws that pander to Christians. I get the Christian holidays off of work, but I can't even ask for my own religious holidays off of work. The request would not be taken seriously.
Next to that some atheists calling you stupid because you believe in God really just doesn't add up.
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I understand that.
And trust me, it happens a lot.
One guy once told me "Only stupid people believe in God so that makes you stupid."
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I believe that it happens. I've seen it happens.
I'm just saying that saying "Someone called me stupid for believing in God" really is nothing next to "God gives people aids as punishment for being queer" and "Your 'religion is a cult made by satan' " and saying that the only reason my religious practice works for me is because I'm possessed by demons. Or saying that only straight people have the right to marry because god only blesses unions between a man and a woman, and gay marriage will destroy the institution.
And not only SAY that, but to make LAWS that enforce discrimination based on that?
Yeeahh... sorry but they're not exactly comparable.
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oh?
"Being gay is stupid and God will punish you" next to "Your God is evil and so are you because people like you won't let me marry."
"Apparently what I believe is evil next to you so f*ck off"
where there is an insult to one there is always one to another.
I can't even talk to some people after they find out I believe in God because they amuse I'm instantly going to hate them...
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The difference is one is just an insult, the other is a law restricting freedom.
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Um, that was actually a twist right there. xD
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Not at all.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Those are the words. Where is the twisting?
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...So? This verse just described one of the penalties of rape. (which is obviously shown to be evil)
In your last comment, you just said the Bible states that "rape is fine". (which it obviously doesn't)
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Actually, this quite clearly says that there is no penalty as long as the rapist marries the rape victim. It is also clear that the rape victim has no say in this. I'm sorry but what kind of sick demented person says that a rape victim should be forced to marry the rapist?
Or are you saying that marriage is a penalty?
I can also find the one that says that if a woman is raped and nobody hears her scream that she is to be put to death because she didn't fight off her rapist.
I can also find you the numerous number of instances where the bible claims that god says the solders should "take" the women of a conquered land "for themselves." Which obviously entails forced marriage and rape.
So, according to the bible, rape is fine.
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Okay, it seems I was wrong too. >.> I'm sorry to have mislead you in what I said. (I have to admit, I haven't been studying the Bible as much as I should lately)
This is actually a deep subject. (much deeper than I thought) At first glance (in our English-translated Bibles), it seems this verse is indeed talking about rape, but that is not the case. Here's a link if you want to see the details for yourself- [link]
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Yes, I am aware of such far-fetched acrobatics to attempt to say that it doesn't say what it says.
Want to know something funny? The word in that passage that meant "Maiden" or a woman who had never had sex was never, in the Hebrew texts was never applied to Mary? The only word ever used to describe Mary meant "unwed." Nowhere did it ever imply Mary had never had sex. That attribution came about 600 years later.
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Well, the Bible was written in Hebrew, a language that does have multiple words for the different kinds of 'love'.
Unwed would mean...well, obviously just that. In Jewish custom, it was forbidden for a Jewish man or woman to engage in sexual activity outside of marriage.
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Reality still stands that, there WAS a word that specifically meant a "a woman who had never engaged in sexual activity," it WAS used to describe other women in the bible, but not to describe Mary. One would think that if "Immaculate Conception" was so important (which it wasn't until about 600 years later) they might have used it, but they didn't.
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Instead of me typing out all the 'reality' into this text box, here is a webpage listing facts that everyone who is interested in Mary and the virgin birth should know about- [link]
You and I probably don't agree on many things, but honestly, I really admire your diligence for the truth.
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I looked at the page.
1. No source's own claims to be true can ever be used as evidence that it is true. That's just logic and debate skills.
2. You clearly haven't sited an unbiased source.
So, I apologize for not being overly impressed.
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And you're not biased? xD
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I'm looking at the text rationally and objectively and not finding much rational about it. Why would I be biased? I have nothing against Christians or Christianity per-say, just because I don't like the fact that our overwhelmingly Christian government gives it, as a religious group, special consideration.
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Both are interesting ideas, thank you!
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so deep, so expressive, so good
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This is a great piece, all the icons are very strong and the photo itself actually looks very good, which certainly helps. One thing tha stuck out to me, she has amazing teeth.
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