HOME | DD
MaximoVLorenzo — Manga/Anime are not styles 2
Published: 2011-03-22 22:22:47 +0000 UTC; Views: 11895; Favourites: 31; Downloads: 0
Redirect to original
Description
body div#devskin2045975 .scrollbox { position:relative; overflow:auto; width:92%; height:300px; font-size:12px; margin-left:35px; margin-top:5px; padding:2px 2px 2px 2px; font-family:Arial text-align:center; background-color:transparent; border-style:solid; border-width:1px 1px 1px 1px; border-color::#A6B2A6; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .list li { background-color:#330066 !important; color:#FFFFFF !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .list li.a { background-color:#330066 !important; color:#FFFFFF !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox { border:6px #000033 solid !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journaltop { border-bottom:6px #000033 solid !important; background-color:#000000 !important; text-align:center !important; color:#FFFFFF !important; font-size:11pt !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journaltext { border-bottom:6px #000033 solid !important; font-size:12pt !important; color:#000033 !important; background-image:url(https://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd22/Maximo00/newbg.gif); background-repeat:repeat; background-position:top left; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox h2 { color:000033 !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox a { color:#ccffff !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox a:hover { color:#000033 !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journalbottom a.commentslink { color:#FFFFFF !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journalbottom a.prevlink { color:#FFFFFF !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journalbottom a.commentslink:hover { color:#FFFFFF !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journalbottom a.prevlink:hover { color:#FFFFFF !important; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journalbottom { background-color:#330066 !important; padding-top:6px; } body div#devskin2045975 .journalbox .journaltop img { display:none !important; }
Okay, so I'm still getting confusion over my statement Manga/Anime is not a style.
Some people think I'm out to get anime or I'm against it. Other people think I'm only for it, this is my problem in a nut shell. People think it's some kind of war where you pick sides and lob rocks at the other. Why I'm saying it's a medium and not a style is because you can generalize and dismiss a style. But a medium, you can't do that without looking foolish. Imagine someone says "I don't like rap music", well then you just concede the point they don't like it and move on. But if someone says "I don't like ANY music" you'd really wonder what was wrong with them. In this case comics are the same way, and so is manga as they mean the same thing. The only way I can justify using the word "Manga" is for a shorthand of "Japanese Comics". Considering it a style itself is too generalizing.
Maybe this picture will help clarify how countries do not determine style.
I will now post up some people's comments and address them here:
"That said I barely even consider Tezuka to be anime anymore, since the current mainstream stuff is so far from his."
-I wonder how Japanese people would react to that. See this is a big problem when one of that countries culture founders is considered not of that country's style.
"Anime/manga USED to have a style, now is the same generic sht. "
-So you would consider moe to be the same as Hajime no ippo?
I asked "So an artstyle is determined by its most generic factor?" And the answer was "Yeah, and frequently used /copied by other people."
-So by that logic Cubism is defined by everyone who uses it besides Picasso, and his thought process and methods behind it.
"Same as comic art and cartoon not being a style but being used as descriptors. They ain't exactly the most accurate of descriptions, but they're decent umbrella terms. Would be pedantic to ask people if they were emulating more Walt Disney and Ub Iwerks or Chuck Jones if they're drawing cartoon art, same goes if you want someone to proclaim that they are of the Tezuka or Ghibli styles. Is there are more succinct way of labeling a loose but still vaguely connected art-style influenced by the comic and animation of Japan?"
-people sure do love throwing that word "pedantic" out there. To imply that is the only way to classify art by individual personal styles is ridiculous. Scott McCloud showed 2 very fair ways of describing style. The pyramid that consists of realistic, to symbolic, to isometric and the combination of each. The second describes the goal of the artist classical, animist, iconoclast, and formalist. These are very fair terms that cover all styles from any country. As far as publishers are concerned, stick to genres like horror, action, adventure, romance, etc. when it comes to comics story supersedes art.
"1) speed and movement being displayed differently. example: where as western style comics would have something like....repeat images of a person running or lines behind the moving character to convey the motion, manga used things like the speed lines and blurred backgrounds, or a fast moving leg that fades into crosshatching. They both do the same thing but convey it differently."
Jack Kirby used speedlines
"2) setting and environment. Manga frequently uses lots of background shots and different angles of a setting to bring the mood into play.
-Many western comics do that, off the top of my head, Blankets by Craig Thompson.
"anatomical focus. Most major western comics place a lot of focus on size, height, and at least some degree of anatomical display. In manga these elements are frequently distorted giving it a unique charm."
-You mean like looney tunes? Vagabond certainly does not meet this requirement.
"While no, it can't be nailed down to always having certain specific stylistic traits, there are a number of stylistic conventions that go along with anime/manga in my opinion."
-I think there are repeating styles yes, but it ultimately trying to generalize these leads to contradictions and prejudice.
"So I ask you -- why do you "certainly not" see anime/manga as a style?"
-Because I think it does more harm than good, The only reason to refer to anime/manga as a style is because you generalize all the styles as one, but the problems this causes with people assuming anime is all one style are too many. This is when you get uneducated quotes like "All anime is the same"," I don't need to know anatomy if I'm drawing anime" "I used to be a bad artist then I quit drawing anime" "anime is not real art" "anime is superior blah blah blah"....I shit you not people actually say this garbage and they are all equally ignorant, and their problem is all the same, they think anime/manga is a tangible style that adheres to certain rules, when this is not even close to true.
"The first thought that comes to mind is: "Who Cares?"
-Same reason a biologist would care if people said "Rabbits are of the turtle species, biologists are veterinarians"
"I personally don't like anime/manga "styles". I would consider it a style as it is a copy of someone else's way of drawing/painting/etc. I also have a hard time believing someone is an artist that is only capable of drawing cartoons. It reminds me of when I was 12 and tried to draw Trigun screenshots. Was I an artist? No, I was merely someone that liked to draw."
So you consider Vagabond, Crayon Shin Chan, Naruto, and Peach Girl all the same style and you have equal disdain for each? An artist isn't some lofty glorious title only achieved by years of hard work. Anyone can be an artist if they express themselves through craft, no certain skill level is required.
"And don't get me started on digital art. 
Easy or Hard does not mean good or bad, just because you doodled something does not make it bad, just because you spent 3 years on something does not make it good. Digital art is plenty capable of emotion, I think you are mistaking that for digital art's ability to ( not always ) produce work without errors or little flaws that promote humanity. But with this in mind a digital work is still capable of capturing that. All digital art is, is another tool to the arsenal.
"LASTLY, people that draw anime/manga generally have so many mistakes in their work that they don't even give a fuck about.
A background? Who cares! It's a kawaii girl isn't she so kawaii? ^__^ "
-This is exactly the kind of thinking generalizing a entire countries culture into one style promotes. I guarantee you artists like
Tsulala Can draw cute girls and
draw killer backgrounds.
"But Japan, through comics (and later cartoons), inarguably developed its own national style"
-And yet Tezuka "God of manga" was heavily inspired by Popeye and Disney. And other mangas today derive inspiration from other sources not just other manga such as noir, graffiti, and superheros. The first mecha was actually designed for spiderman. So it's not an isolated style as you think, it didn't start out that way it won't end that way.
"If you know the fundamentals of art, have a strong groundwork in working from life, understand proportion- then by all means, draw however you want. But my biggest pet peeve is when people say that they're only interested in drawing anime/manga and therefore do not need to understand the basics."
-The problem lies in the artist, not manga/anime so stop blaming it. Blaming manga/anime for the artist's mistake only appeals to the shallowest of hipsters.
"It's just like how I say "I do Karate" all the time.
I never actually did any Karate, brodog... I did some other asian kicking/punching thing. But specifying with Kung-Fu or Ninjutsu or MMA or whatever specific thing that requires moderate to in-depth knowledge makes you sound like a toootal nerd.
....Well in martial arts talk, it kinda makes you sound like a stupid prick or a showoff. But the principle is the same I think."
-I rather look like a prick showoff for knowing something than an ignorant ass. Being ashamed of knowledge is a very very bad thing.
"Make less posts, do more studies."
I'll quote my friend for this one. "Ya know, being an artist is about more than tweaking the angle of a foot or going through a hundred thumbnails to get a composition right or studying the way cool light reflects off a pair of Beadazzled speedos to illuminate the underside of an erect penis. Being an artist is also about participating in current art culture - arguing and debating and raising awareness of issues relevant to one's craft and career. If you ignore that you're just masturbating onto a canvas.
I'm sorry this response contains so many allusions to the phallus, it's just you remind me of a dick."
I may add more arguments to this page but what I want to know now is, really can you think of ever benefit to considering "manga" a style and every disadvantage...Is it really that helpful to consider it a style? or is it just easier to let the status quo remain?
Additional comment by
"The fact is, "anime/manga" are marketed as something distinct from western comics because it is convenient for the publishers of these products. To put it another way, they have brainwashed their audiences into being antagonistic to non-Japanese content because it is a great way to defend against competition in the marketplace. By subtly convincing readers that they are taking part in something completely different and superior to "western comics," they essentially prevent the loss of sales to other companies.
It's not just anime/manga publishers allowing this to occur, either; there is a similar attitude of disdain among western comic fans which is allowed to persist.
This is why you see different sections for "comics" and "manga" in stores, or an "anime" section and a "family" section for animation. You will almost invariably find the American animated series Avatar lumped in with the anime. It is not uncommon to find Scott Pilgrim in the manga section as well. There is a reason these things are located there and not in their "correct" sections. It isn't because the people putting them up don't know any better, either.
It may be convenient to breed this attitude in the short term, but in the long run it is damaging to the artists that produce these things and fosters stagnation in content. When the audiences stop going along with this sort of thinking, publishers will be forced to embrace a wider variety of styles and talents in order to keep producing things people are willing to read and watch.
The long and short of it: if you believe that anime/manga is a style, you are incorrectly being led to believe so and it is ultimately bad for comics from any country."
Another commenter says: "One of the best sources of ammunition for this debate, I think, is Sazae-san. The forty-year-running anime is the most popular anime EVERY week, with the highest viewship rates by far (totally outstripping Naruto), and yet it looks nothing like "typical" anime."
No kidding!
Work in progress
???
OHKO
Final Fantasy Job Class Pin up
Related content
Comments: 219
... OK, I'll be honest. I really am trying to understand how anime/manga can be a medium, but I have always thought of it as a style. Sure, I've read the same argument that you have made in a different article, but it's so hard to switch my way of thinking.
But... From your newest deviation, I think I understand a teensy bit more. I noticed how "styles" (for lack of a better word) shifted; no region had the same technique over the years. So, as time passes, influences change, so drawing "styles" can never be localized. Sure, Japan will be known as the hearth of anime/manga, and the West and Europe will be known for cartoons, but in the end, everyone is free to draw how they want. As artists, we should decide how or what we want to draw and should explore new techniques to broaden our horizons.
I may not have communicated what you wanted to hear, but if you wanted readers to be more open-minded, here's one! :'D
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
if you think of it this way, 'anime' means animation and animation is a medium to deliver content. same as 'film' and 'tv show'. "manga" means comics and comics are a middle ground for prose books and visual mediums of animation/live action films. Style simply is how you perceive and wish to communicate. There's 'style' in everything, from selling, to writing, to speaking, to fashion, ect.
if you just look at manga, for the most part, you can tell the difference in artists. sailor moon looks vastly different from card capture sakura, yet both are manga, both BW, both shoujo manga, both about magical girls. yet different style in drawing and story telling, but manga/comics.
hope it helps
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah, I think I understand it a bit more after reading this. Thank you!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I agree completely with Maximo on this.
The fact is, "anime/manga" are marketed as something distinct from western comics because it is convenient for the publishers of these products. To put it another way, they have brainwashed their audiences into being antagonistic to non-Japanese content because it is a great way to defend against competition in the marketplace. By subtly convincing readers that they are taking part in something completely different and superior to "western comics," they essentially prevent the loss of sales to other companies.
It's not just anime/manga publishers allowing this to occur, either; there is a similar attitude of disdain among western comic fans which is allowed to persist.
This is why you see different sections for "comics" and "manga" in stores, or an "anime" section and a "family" section for animation. You will almost invariably find the American animated series Avatar lumped in with the anime. It is not uncommon to find Scott Pilgrim in the manga section as well. There is a reason these things are located there and not in their "correct" sections. It isn't because the people putting them up don't know any better, either.
It may be convenient to breed this attitude in the short term, but in the long run it is damaging to the artists that produce these things and fosters stagnation in content. When the audiences stop going along with this sort of thinking, publishers will be forced to embrace a wider variety of styles and talents in order to keep producing things people are willing to read and watch.
The long and short of it: if you believe that anime/manga is a style, you are incorrectly being led to believe so and it is ultimately bad for comics from any country.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I think this is nitpicking. Unless one is intimately involved in the details, most people don't care to identify art by the details. It's fine if you want to and for anyone who wishes to do so, but the general populace (including myself) finds it simpler to describe things as typical categories.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
A lot of things are simpler to the general populace that needs to change.
Such as garbage treatment, so we got a little more complicated and started to recycle.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
True but no one really pays attention to the details unless it's something important to them and that's fine; it'd be impossible for everyone to be well-versed in everything.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
hunh.
i'm late to the party again.
was away from dA too long.
anyhoo... i get what you're saying.
but you're going to go over the heads of most the kids here
that have yet to make proper distinctions and such.
this is a seemingly endless war... i'm kinda surprised you jumped onto that battle field.
i will say this tho...
Massimiliano Frezzato...
IS A GOD.
*skips away*
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
i just wanted to leave some logic landmines for others to use honestly.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I wish I could faveorite this journal. Be moar bitchy please: Make it into a "News" article. take this issue all over Da.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
nahh. Other people can do that.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
"anyway anyway anyway anyway" ....sheesh wth is up with my redundancy today.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Aww come on! Anyway, you have enough influence for this to start spreading anyway.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
that's the plan, but I don't want to force myself anywhere, I just want to light some people's fires.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Dude, this was a great set of journals. I totally agree with you, as a culture, hell as a species, we tend to try to streamline everything. We cut corners in everything we see, everything we do, and inevitable it leads to everything we think. The movie Idiocy by mike Judge presented this amazingly. But this is why people tend to use Anime/Manga as a style, instead of learning to articulate what style they truly follow and/or are looking at.
The irony with this statement however is I'm over generalizing right now O.o
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Although Cowboy Bebop was a anime, it was done based on the 'western days.' The 'wild west'. A completely American story. The only difference was that it was IN SPACE.
How's that for breaking the bearings?
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Bro, I'm gonna be perfectly honest and say that- with each example in your deviation- I was able to identify the country based on the art style alone.
I'm also unsure as to why you are so upset over people calling anime and mange styles. They are styles, just very generic in terminology. Like any style or genre, you can break them down into many sub-genres and styles. You can mix and match. But the fact is, "anime" and "manga' have developed stereotype definitions just like any other art style.
Just because someone from Japan is drawing something, doesn't make it anime or manga. Same with someone from America drawing something, doesn't make it western. Your personal taste shapes what your style becomes. I think your artwork has a strong manga influence. Do I think that's a bad thing? Not at all. You make it work, you enjoy doing it, it's appealing- nothing wrong with it at all.
I think you need to take a breather and stop letting the world's opinions tick you off so much. I used to be that kind of person, so trust me- you feel a lot better once you learn to let go.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
It wasn't really a test to see whether you could identify them or not, it was to display how wildly the styles vary from the preconception of what they are.
I still don't see why it's helpful to generalize a country's style and generalize it. What do we call Mexican, African, English, Austrialian, Chinese comics, do we have words for those too? Do they get as much flack as anime/western comics? And I'm pointing this out because I have to defend western comics as well.
"Just because someone from Japan is drawing something, doesn't make it anime or manga. Same with someone from America drawing something, doesn't make it western."
The point is if you draw a comic in Japan, it will be called a "manga" if you draw a comic here it's usually a "comic" but people get all weird if you take influence from Japan, if Brandon Graham is inspired by moebius, do we have to come up with a name for his style? No we just call it "comics".
I'm not upset in the way you think I am. I'm concerned, and this personally effects me when finding work, people turning me down because I'm not "manga styled" enough or "too manga styled" then on the reverse I have people who want to promote me under "manga" style and critics who disagree whether I am or not. This is actually important to me and my future.
That said, I don't blame you if you just think I'm on a tirade about nothing important, that's just how you see it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
If you are getting turned down for the way you draw, you are either looking for work in the wrong places or you need to vary your portfolio. That is how the industry works. You have what some people are after, not what everyone is after. It can be a disappointment when you don't land a job you're after, but if you expect to land every job you are after- then you are expecting way too much, sir.
And that goes for any kind of job you are trying to get in any field. Just a basic principle of life. To blame your misfortune on the way people categorize art styles is ignorance. Either move on to something more suited to your tastes or vary your work.
Don't think that my words are easily tossed aside because I haven't had the same problem that you have- I have. Many times. I've been working on and off in the concept art and animation industry for years. It's the same deal wherever you go. If you want a job in the arts, you need to prepare for a world of rejection to go with a cup of acceptance. You'll find your way around, so long as you keep a level head and don't let one person's opinion of your work send you all topsy-turvy.
I wish you luck, you have a lot of talent- you just need to find some balance.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I have currently stayed employed. Staying employed is not my problem it's the attitudes I see amongst fans and publishers while I get accepted or rejected. I never liked how Tokyopop marketed us artists as something different from comics, it wasn't right. I'm saying that despite my paychecks.
You're assuming I'm blaming only my misfortune and not me successes. I'm having a problem with my successes as well. I don't appreciate the implications you are making.
Seriously you're telling things I've already discussed, you're putting words in my mouth then attacking them. LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR TO YOU.
1. I am very accustomed to rejection I have made posts before encouraging people in the same way you just have.
2. AGAIN I stay readily employed, I am not just bitching because I don't have enough work stop implying that!
3.Stop assuming I know less than you do about how the real world works, I don't spit on all of your experience I'd appreciate it if you returned the favor.
I seriously can't tell if you mean well, or if you're trying to be snarky.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Haha, wow. Chill out, bro. Chill out.
If you re-read some of the statements you made toward me, you would realize why I touched on the topics that I did.
I do not know you personally, I do not follow your every move, I do not kiss the ground you walk on. I'm merely a passive watcher, one who felt you were having a spot of trouble over something that I personally found to be entirely relevant to myself and every other artist out there. I thought I would offer some words of encouragement and a little slice of life.
However, if your paychecks are telling you that you do not need my words, then that's fine.
You are fortunate. Be happy with what you have and don't sweat the little things.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I know why you touched on the subjects, I know you don't know me personally, nor do you kiss the ground I walk on, but all I'm asking is like...for the teeniest bit of credibility here, and not dismiss me as just whining. C'mon dude.
I appreciate the thought if you were trying to encourage me, honestly artists need to help each other in that regard so I respect that.
And no I'm not saying my paychecks mean anything other than, this effects me when the going is good as well as bad.
Granted I am fortunate, and not sweating the small stuff is very key to happiness. But if I can throw out a little help for people who feel the same way I do, I consider it well worth the trouble.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I apologize for having a differing opinion on the subject, then. If that's all this was about.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
You don't need to apologize for having a different opinion, that's all good.
I just don't want you to imply I'm whining about little things, and I don't know how to take rejection. Y'annow?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
My opinion is that this is a little thing, so yes that is what I was touching on. You can call it whining if you want, I simply call it "sweating the little things."
Anyway, I have nothing else to add. Peace!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I didn't really mean for the the qualities I pointed out to be considered requirements of an eastern/western comic. Just things that recur or are reused so often in either type that they kind of become staples of it. I didn't mean to come across like they were hard fast rules and without easily found exceptions. I dunno, "style" means lots of different things to different people, and comics is an artform that always progresses and changes no matter where it is created. o_o
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
i didn't quote you because i knew you didn't mean that but i wanted people to see exceptions to what they think are what makes the style.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Ah, alright cool man. I'm actually gonna go check out that Blankets comic too ^_^.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Calling something an "anime" or a "manga" tells you one thing, and one thing only: it comes from Japan. An anime is a japanese animated feature, and a manga is a collection of japanese sequential art.
The thing is, but that's what I personally believe, we kind of lost track of every style we can have. While in the older days you had cubism, constructivism, fauvism, expresionnism, etc, going on sligthly at the same time, now people seem to only categorize art by country rather than ideology, which is why people refer to animes and mangas as an actual style.
I remember using the word "cartoonism" to describe one of my illustrations to someone who actually claimed it was an abstract piece. I guess I was slightly wrong to us a word with so many meanings, but then again I did say I borrowed the same ideology as Baroque art.
(for those who are actually curious about how the discussion went: [link] )
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Astrix and Isle of Dwarves
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Interesting article.
But you know why anime/manga is promoted as a "style" (even though I'm one of the believers that it's not)?
Because in the end, the anime/manga industry is a business, and the the population who aren't motivated to look at the medium with your desired level of critical thinking is far larger than those like Scott McCloud - and therefore they make more money out of it.... FAR more.
If you are a businessman in the anime/manga industry, what would you talk about in meetings?
That an Akio Sugino/Osamu Dezaki project is of higher artistic quality than mass-produced garbage? Or.... you know.... sales charts?
The way I see where this industry should go (and bear with me on this) is that it needs to go bankrupt - in that the current stagnation it's experiencing because of mass-produced garbage would lead to the industry's downfall. Afterwards, the time will come when the people who really care for the artform, the real "anime/manga artists", would revive it, freeing it from the hands of capitalists who can't even draw stick figures (nor care).
The worst thing that would happen is the cycle would repeat, but at least not until about half a century.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
And by the way, the new Thundercats is done in Japan.
Oh wait.... the old Thundercats was done in Japan too.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Oh hey, you're right. It took some research but the Pacific Animation Corporation is from Japan, too. Go figure.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Plenty of cartoons from the mid 80s onwards were done in Japan.
Blame Robotech.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
First of all, I feel it is important to address the image representing Thundercats, which was used for the little country breakdown thing: that particular image is actually from the new series from 2010 which is being animated and produced by Studio 4°C who are from Japan. So the image you used is Japanese and not only did you label it incorrectly, but you didn’t even do a quick search to make sure it was from where you thought it was.
As far as your message, I only agree with it in concern to modern artists being globally connected through the internet, as art from any country is readily available to anyone these days.
But Japan, through comics (and later cartoons), inarguably developed its own national style, similarly to Verdi’s “Italian Opera.” When somebody (familiar with Opera) hears “Chorus of the Hebrew Captives” they immediately know that it is Italian, even if they are unfamiliar with the piece, or even if they don’t know Verdi. Similarly if someone sees “Shinji” from Neon Genesis Evangelion, they will be safe in assuming he is an Anime character.
Some international style reflection is inevitable in a globalized community and, in the past, that could only be represented through World Fairs, etc. Today with the internet the line is blurred, but quintessential manga is still that: Iconic, and representative of Japan as a nation. Nationalism has always been an important aspect of art (in all its forms) throughout History, and Manga and Anime are a good example of that.
👍: 0 ⏩: 3
There, i fixed it so now its actual Leseans work.
"But Japan, through comics (and later cartoons), inarguably developed its own national style"
And yet Tezuka was heavily inspired by Popeye and Disney. And other mangas today derive inspiration from other sources not just other manga such as noir, graffiti, and superheros. The first mecha was actually designed for spiderman. So it's not an isolated style as you think, it didn't start out that way it won't end that way.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Using a couple of examples doesn't change the fact that Japan associated a strong national identity with manga. That's "proof by example" and it's a logical fallacy. Just because some Japanese art takes outside influence does not mean the style as a whole has taken that influence.
Japanese manga shows clear derivation from ancient Japanese prints and icons that have been around hundreds (in some cases thousands) of years before Spiderman.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
"Using a couple of examples doesn't change the fact that Japan associated a strong national identity with manga."
They have a strong national identity with Hello Kitty, that doesn't mean it represents every artist that comes from Japan.
"style as a whole" Again you cannot generalize that many people's expression accurately.
"Japanese manga shows clear derivation from ancient Japanese prints and icons that have been around hundreds (in some cases thousands) of years before Spiderman."
Some of it does, some of it doesn't. How does Card Captor Sakura resemble the do period of art?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'm going to make an analogy:
Humans and jaguars are both evolved from rodents. Humans and jaguars both share many biological traits with rodents, and yet they are very different from one another. The circulatory and digestive systems of a jaguar much more closely resemble that of a mouse than that of a human, but the human shares a similarly functioning nervous system with the mouse that is not found in the jaguar. All three are warm-blooded and bear live children.
Again, you are using specific examples but not looking at it generally enough. Hello Kitty and Card Captor Sakura both share some unifying principles of the earlier mentioned classical Japanese prints but they have branched out into their own identities as well.
They don't look similar themselves, because the artists are individuals, however just a few examples of Japanese national principles that survive in those examples are: Bright colors to indicate the primary subject of the art (both), exaggerated human features (CCS), and a complete lack of profile or any sort of perspective other than front-facing (Hello Kitty).
Even in two examples as far removed as Card Captor Sakura and Hello Kitty you can find many traces of the Japanese heritage artistically speaking.
I also feel it bears mentioning that a "medium" is a conduit through which you create something, like a canvas, or Photoshop, or clay. Film, sculpture, comics, literature, animated cartoons... These are media. Manga and Anime are subcategories within the comic and cartoon media.
I support your claim that people overgeneralize Anime. Certainly, people who think that "all Anime is the same" are ignorant and really not worth the argument. However it's important to acknowledge that despite the vast amount of variety within Manga and Anime, the artistic style palette they employ is almost universally a "Japanese Flavor."
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
i found it on leseans blog i thought he was working on it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
In Japan all animations are anime and all sequential arts are manga, because the words literally mean that when translated.
The terms used as a definition of certain styles and such is a western thing.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
ignorant label things generic things that they don't understand.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
people are stupid all over. You're better off just telling them to suck a dick and leaving them to their own devices instead of saying YOU CAN BE BETTER THAN THIS
actually the second one sounds nice but I imagine it's stressful being continually disappointed by everyone around you
Just bring up a brief summary of this argument whenever someone tells it to your face; spread the word a little more personally, yeah? I know I'm going to.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I think what is going on here is a basic visual literacy problem: people do not fundamentally understand what style is. This is a good challenge, how do we properly articulate what style is.
I propose tackling this issue without the use of anime/manga since they're not the cause of the problem just symptom.
The didactics really depend on where the artist is on their path. Novices will have a hard time separating style from technique and a journeyman will only have a surface understanding of the separation. So knowing who you want to address will be key.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
this. I will consider this.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Good. I'm going to write my thoughts on the matter as well.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
<= Prev | | Next =>