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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-11-27 23:07:44 +0000 UTC]

Better late than never

Lester is definitely one of my favorites from the Racing Series and I don't think he should be forgotten just because he got stuck in the crappy Racing Episodes.

My whole goal with these is to write them as if they are handbook entries on the characters and their equipment and the only rule I have is everyone still has secret identities on MASK.

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-11-29 18:47:28 +0000 UTC]

Touché! I occasionally suffer from lazy buggertitis! XD

I agree - the VENOM lot had more energy - pity the cartoon never went any further. Should have, like what you do.

Agreed on the secret front - come on, nature of the beast!

Excellent stuff.

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-11-30 01:11:21 +0000 UTC]

It happens to us all. I have a really complicated commission coming up and honestly if it wasn't for the amount I'm being paid I wouldn't do it because it's a lot of work

Yeah I know. It had the potential to go longer than GI Joe had they not boned the whole concept just to push the racing vehicles and piss everyone off in the process.

It's not that far fetched that both teams would need racing style vehicles for certain missions and for Trakker especially since he and Gloria were friggin race car drivers. They could have easily incorporated those into the series without killing it.

That's what did in the US M.A.S.K. comics. The writer outright refused to keep the identities a secret and if you look at all the letter's pages everyone bitches to him about it and he keeps trying to sell them on his concept of the team and it just doesn't work.

The UK comics did the same thing as well in the later issues but at least it lasted from 1985 until 1990. Not a bad run as far as comics go.

Thanks

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-11-30 17:54:36 +0000 UTC]

Pleasure.

I understand where you are coming from.

Wierd as it sounds, the GI Joe movie (of which they are making a sequel) looked more like something MASK would have been - it featured converting cars, hi-tech, masked villains.

Only thing I liked about the racing series was that Scott and T-Bob were not in it. They concentrated on the MASK/VENOM bits. However, the world has moved on, and if it was ever to come back, I think the MASK lot should have more family and human details too - not just Matt and his Brat!

Just because they are special forces does not mean that they are immune to the trials and tribiulations of life. Would be nice to see flaws in these people. Say Ace Riker left NASA over the Challenger disaster, or Dusty has a brother who is a bit of a low life, or Hondo a war vetran who has those dark nightmares.

The above maybe bollocks but its scope, you know?

We in the UK took it more to heart - I think, well assume - that the US have Marvel and DC and they stick to their own source material - anything that comes into it has to be Marvelesque or DC adapted.

I think it lasted as long as the toy chain and even they did not cover the Split Seconds line (that was wierd!!!)

BTW Glo did appear in that range - with very BUTCH arms, and a mask called Collider!

Cheers for replying

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-01 01:44:14 +0000 UTC]

I think what made Scott and T-Bob annoying was they had terribly irritating voices and seemed to almost talk down to the kids watching. Scott and T-Bob’s dialogue was almost like a throwback to a 1950s sitcom. No kid ever acted or talked like him in the 80s and T-Bob’s lame puns became painful after a while. Still I think they were far less annoying than Snarf, Gleek and the mother of all annoying sidekicks Scrappy Doo.

I understand what you mean, they didn’t do much to flesh out individual members of the team like GI Joe and Transformers did. I also think it was a fatal flaw not to have an origin mini series to show how the teams were formed instead of leaving it up to the mini comic in the toys.

If you combine the toy origin comic with the UK origin comic it paints a much darker and evil story than the cartoon would lead you to believe. I mean Miles not only killed Andy Trakker he also killed Matt’s older brother Joe who was the leader of the original MASK team that Mile’s ambushed and slaughtered wholesale in the desert. Matt was a civilian observer during this and was the only survivor. It’s like the best set up to a revenge film ever and we never got to see it in the show.

I think it had to do a lot with the art and writing when it came to the comics. The UK ones were so much more polished and serious when it came to things and the US ones were cheaply done and poorly written, which was a shame because Kurt Swan was the artist on the US ones and he was legendary at the time for his work on the Superman titles.

There’s nothing wrong with comic writing when it comes to stuff like this as long as it’s done by someone who loves and understands the material. Like the GI Joe comics lasted so long because Larry Hama loved his creations and did everything he could to make the comic book a success and a lot of times argued with Hasbro when they tried to make him change things to promote new toys in the line. He outright killed a bunch of characters just because he disliked them and in the case of the Cobra La characters he outright refused to put them into the series.

I know, I have the Split Seconds Gloria. I liked that they kept it close to her animated look but with different colors. Still doesn’t make up for the fact we never got her in the Shark vehicle.

No problem, I’m enjoying the conversation

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-01 20:26:42 +0000 UTC]

*Warning - this will be windy*

Ah that explains ny resentment of them, I may have thought of that subconciously but outside they just got on my wick. Yer right about annoying characters - thought Snarf was an annoying C***, I do not wish to know who Gleek was, and Scrappy Doo? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! Where's a blender!?!!??!?!?

I wholehearlty agree with what you said too. Must confess, I thought the cartoons were actual dramas (silly me) only to later learn to my dismay they were nothing more than ads!

Recently there was a reboot of He-Man and the Masters etc, but again despite fleshing out the characters more, and introducing a lot of interesting elements, it was a toy commercail run by gutless, faceless, feckless suits. Here was an idea that could have been turned into a drama. Alas no, they wanted it to be "BUY OUR PRODUCTS!!!". No wonder it flopped.

Like you said, we could have had a great mini series, a flesh out of ideas. I will admit the original comic idea was F***ing dark! We in the UK use to do comics that were not onlu dark but ver challenging to the world. We had black boxers fighting against racism in the 80's! We whipped up V for Vendetta, a new version of Batman, and of course 2000AD before it went all commercial and corporate.

I think the darkness died because then the kids saw the TV and saw the comic and they were "two different things". Its a shame. These 'children ideas' are more clever and mature than many give credit. Look at the Centurions, that was very drama like. I feel now with SO much CORPORATE nature in the media, the idea of doing stuff like this is dead - not that the ideas are bad, but that the corporate C***s want MONEY, not ideas, innovation, or influence.

The net result is a stagnation of imaginaton given to the public.

I can understand the artists resentment about having crap characters in his ideas. I am glad he stood his ground but they pay the bills. However, like I said, that has led to the stagnation of imagination. They are all looking for the next Harry Potter, but they would not ever see it even if it stared them in the face. Sides Harry was rejected 33 times before it became the hit it is.

On the Gloria front, if you ever plan to sell it on E-Bay - worth a lot by many collectors. However, I know you won't

I think Glo and V were only put into the franchise as token women. In Visionaries we had a female goody and villainess - but neither ever showed in the toyline. In the racing cartoon, V and her manta changed. Originally the Manta was based on an Opal Lightning (I think) but the toy became a Nissan ZX300. Glo's motor was a Porsche 928.

Shame that - they should have done it - the demand was there but I smell royalties.....

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-02 11:41:58 +0000 UTC]

Robot Chicken made fun of this in one episode where Orko, Snarf, Robin and Gleek are in an elevator and their interior monologues are just them thinking what an annoying jackass the other one is.

Gleek was the blue space monkey that was the Wonder Twins pet on the old Challenge of the Super friends cartoon. All he said was his name in rapid succession as a way of speaking.

But the cartoons were action/drama/comedy when you look at them. I mean if you put aside the toy ad aspect most of them were very well written and entertaining on quite a few levels. And for the most part lots of them pushed boundaries in their stories that can’t even be approached by today’s cartoons.

The best examples of this for me were the GI Joe episodes Worlds without End, Nightmare Assault, Skeletons in the Closet, Ghost Brigade, and there’s No Place like Springfield. All of them showed real depth and dealt with some truly nightmarish situations and subjects.

On top of all of this they were all extremely well animated. Compare any episode of MASK, GI Joe or Transformers from the 1980s to any of the action ones produced today and most of them are just cookie cutter computer animation with no depth or soul to them. The cartoons have literally become as stiff and lifeless as the toys they are pushing in some cases.

I actually liked the reboot of He-Man because of how serious they took the subjects in it and how it painted a grander saga than the original ever did. Okay, granted they would jam in alternate He-Man and Skeletor costumes as the story allowed it but still the story telling and animation was very well done.

As much as I loved the original He-Man the reboot was much better to me because the old one reused the same stock animations of the characters walking, talking, running etc… and that always jarred me out of the story. It was animated like an old Yogi Bear cartoon that used the same repeated movements to save money. It just gets boring visually after a while.

The same reason I like the UK MASK comics is the same reason I absolutely love the Marvel GI Joe comics. Larry Hama, being a war vet himself, wrote the characters from a soldier’s perspective and really made it realistic despite the science fiction bent of the series. And unlike the cartoons, people died and a lot of times it wasn’t pretty.

And again his standing up to Hasbro on a few things was what made me love him as a creator. Like he absolutely hated the character of Serpentor but since he was important to the toy line and the cartoon at the time he put him in the comics. But he never promised Serpentor would survive the experience.

I honestly think it depends on where the creators go today to make their cartoons. If they try Nickelodeon or any of the regular TV networks the product will be lame, milquetoast crap that will just push the toys and not much else.

But if they go to a cable network like Cartoon Network or G4 they will have considerably less restrictions on what they can do and it will make the shows that much better as a result. Like compare the Wolverine cartoon on G4 to the Avengers cartoon on Disney Channel and it’s no contest which one manages to stay true to the source material and has the most creative freedom. This is part of the reason why Bruce Timm went to Cartoon Network to produce the Justice League cartoon rather than go with the WB channel again or some other regular network.

I fought too hard to win Gloria so I’m not about to go selling her. In fact I have to purchase another pair of her loose figures when I get the chance since the originals I had were lost. I only have her hard light clone.

Well that could be said for every single 1980s cartoon ever. Each one had token females and representatives of different races thrown in to show diversity.

As far as I’ve read Vanessa’s Manta was always supposed to be a Nissan 300ZX. I’ve never read anything saying otherwise.

I know and to this day you will still find people swearing up and down they had a Shark vehicle even though Kenner stated repeatedly they never made one not even as a prototype. There are some people online who have even gone so far as to make a fake Shark vehicle by modifying Porsche 928 model kits to look like it.

It’s the same as the blue Bluestreak Transformer toy. There was never a blue one made and yet there are people who swear they had one as a kid even though he was only ever produced in silver.

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-03 09:47:20 +0000 UTC]

LOL!!! You have to send me a link of Robot Chicken.

Gawd, Gleek sounds like my idea of hell. Seriously, why do they think of these characters? I have never heard anyone LOVE them or are impressed by. I cannot even see a reason for appeal. Tim Burton has gone on record hating Scrappy Doo. If a big wig director hates the concept, how many more do?

I can only speculate that these characters are added to "lighten the mood and make it more kiddy orientated" amomgst the neutered battles that come. Classic example: I was told that the wee ones loved Jar Jar Binks (the ultimate comedy annoyance) and were upset that he was not featured much. Lucas said he was the funniest character afloat. Star Wars is err about war in the stars. Having some rasta (alleged but denied) fish bloke farting about is not my idea of fun.

Sides if you are taking kids to see a war movie.....

I agree - to be honest many a times they felt like the stuff Star Trek, Star Gate ans such use to do. Greatest example is Gerry Anderson - his stuff in ways is VERY DARK, but kids loved it. Me I thought they were good dramas but not given enough creidance to grow.

TO be honest, I was talking that with a friend and we felt "Where have all the cartoon series gone?" At best we have recycled versions of various DC/Marvel stories and blatant rubbish at worse. However there is nothing original now.

I think some interfering group of PC F***ers thinks its too strong for kids. Really? I draw the line on some things but others are PART OF LIFE - death, duty, honour, courage, corruption, deception. Look at Uylsses 31, Star Fleet (Super Space Machine X-Bomber) and some of Gerry Anderson's stuff - they dealth with the above and people STILL WATCHED THEM!!!!!!!

I liked the new He-Man, it was more dynamic and innovative. More, it showed some of the beings that Skeletor had on his side were actual races and more, gave them a sense of credibility. For example Whiplash is an outcast from his race, whilst Clawful was a head figure of a clan of his species.

However, the toys did not sell and.....well cartoons are phenominally expensive.

I admire those who stand against the corporate machine, they believe in their integrity, their reasoning. Those who sell their souls for a cup of rice...

I did not know that about Serpentor - I thought he was F***ing pointless, you had Cobra Commander, only for them to breed someone better? The words "Poochie from the Simpsons" comes to mind.

Yes they did shove in token people - snag is when they become popular, one wants the model, only for the model not to exist. Should have seen so many wanting the Gloria/shark - you'd think Kenner would have jumped onto that!

As for the Manta, look to the cartoon and the novels of at least eight actual books based on eight episodes of the cartoon - I swear it was an Opel Manta (not lightning)[link]

I heard about that and the BlueStreak being blue. Probably a production prototype that was photoed but never saw the light of day - or urban myth.

Love to see a link to someone actually building a model of Shark. Shows dedication eh?

Good luck with the Gloria hunt!!

And thanks for this

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-03 15:32:11 +0000 UTC]

Here you go [link] if this doesn’t work just Google Robot Chicken Sidekick Elevator

Oh God yes, Gleek was annoying but they tended to focus more on the Wonder Twins. Adult Swim, the same people that produce Robot Chicken made five or six Wonder Twin shorts that showed how stupid their super powers were and most of them ended in disaster because of how worthless their powers were. [link]

Yeah, most times they are the comic relief/hostage in the super hero mythos back then before they started writing them seriously. I think many times the producers of the shows put these sidekicks in to appeal to the youngest viewers so they would have something to focus on if the other stuff was too complicated for them to grasp or wasn’t cute and silly enough to keep them in front of the TV.

And my God I still wonder what the fuck Lucas was thinking when he made Jar Jar. That asshole survives every episode but Darth Maul gets sliced in half and killed before the first movie ends. The only thing that helps me sleep at night is that maybe Jar Jar was on Naboo when the Death Star vaporized that planet.

And don’t even get me started on the fucking refrigerator scene Lucas and Spielberg threw into Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

I know what you mean. Like compare the original Willy Wonka movie to the Tim Burton remake and remake is so sanitized and shitty compared to the dark, trippy things we were put through in the original. And again, same with the Star Wars redo Lucas did to the original films.

I admit I liked the addition of some of the scenes and special effects but when he made Han not shoot Greedo first in the cantina it took away every ounce of dark edge the character had. The whole point of Han Solo was watching this ruthless criminal become an anti-hero and then a hero as the series progressed and Lucas took that darkness from him so the journey to me was a lot less satisfying.

That’s been the main problem here as well. These asshole parent’s groups started meddling in kids programming and essentially ruined it. So now stuff I used to watch as a kid couldn’t even get rerun on regular Saturday morning cartoon blocks anymore and would be relegated to cable or evening programming with a warning. You can’t even see classic stuff like the original GI Joe, Transformers or anything else from the 80s unless you watch a cable cartoon network.

The thing that killed that new He-Man toy line was their insane need to make every assortment have two or more different versions of He-Man and Skeletor in crazy outfits or color schemes instead of focusing on the other characters people kept asking for.

Serpentor was made specifically to replace Cobra Commander in the cartoon because Dr. Mindbender and the other high ranking Cobra officers were sick of Cobra Commander’s schemes failing. The cartoon ruined the whole concept of him with their animated movie which also destroyed Cobra Commander and Cobra’s origins as a whole by linking them to the terrible Cobra La society and characters.

Larry Hama hated this so in the comics Serpentor instead starts a battle of wills with an incompetent Crimson Guard who had usurped the original Cobra Commander’s place which was unknown to everyone except a select few like Dr. Mindbender, Baroness and Zartan. Eventually these two leaders one-upping each other divides the Cobra ranks and it eventually starts a bloody civil war on Cobra Island.

Zartan becomes more and more incensed by the fake Cobra Commander’s bad decisions during the war which eventually gets Zartan’s Dreadnoks captured. Once this happens Zartan takes matters into his own hands and when he sees a column of tanks approaching with Serpentor leading them he kills him with an arrow through the eye socket and forcibly ends the war.

I think despite her popularity Kenner didn’t think a female character would sell as well as the male characters since the product was aimed at boys for the most part. By the time they woke up to that the cartoon had pretty much tanked and pissed off a majority of the fans and the Split Seconds series ended the toy line with its piss poor designs.

The Opel your showing me is from 1987 but the series started in 1985 and ended in 1986 and the designs for the Opel designs from those years were different from the 1987 model and the Manta vehicle itself. Vanessa’s Manta in both the cartoon and toy line is based on the 1984-85 Nissan 300ZX Turbo. You can tell it’s the turbo model from the small hood scoops that are on either side. Some of them only had one but Vanessa has the twin scoops. Also Vanessa’s rear license plate says 300ZX and the green pin stripes on the sizes are a stylized ZX.

I don’t doubt that the artists of some of the books used the Opel as the basis of their art, but it might just be a case of lazy reference researching on the artist’s part. Like as great as Kurt Swan’s art work was in Superman many of his work on the M.A.S.K. comics because of this very same thing. He relied too much on the cartoon art style and not enough on looking at the real vehicles they were based on.

The Bluestreak thing is a total urban myth that went out of control. Even Hasbro said they never produced a blue one but there are still people today who swear they had one.

I think if you do a search for Gloria Baker on Google the fake Shark vehicle comes up. It’s actually quite impressive since the guy made it transform exactly like the one in the show.

Thanks, I’ll get her eventually.

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-04 10:50:24 +0000 UTC]

Oh gawd yes,...now it comes back to me.

Sounds like I kicked a hornet's nest here, LOL - but yes...what WAS he thinking.

I would try and mimic fishF*** but I am not going to traumantise you.

Yes......What was he thinking.

I thought I was the only one who thought that the fridge scene was complete bollocks. How CONVENIENT that he found one that fit SO perfectly. Oh and check out a major blooper (although you probably spotted it) - LED countdown!!! In the 50's?

I wholeheartly agree with you on Han - I WATCHED Star Wars when it came out for the first time - and I HAD not trouble with it. Same with Empire - its a film, not a kiddy film, or horror, a film about good people vs bad people (to put it basically). Sides Greebo had a gun in his face, sooooooooo what was Han to do? You are right - he earned his hero status but he was a decent guy just doing what he had to do.

Yes....PTAs, PC patrols, whatever they call themselves. Yes, they RUINED a lot of great ideas and stories because "we do not want to traumatise our kids"; classic example - Galactica 80. These peeps interfered so much in that great show they MURDERED IT! They have no idea. Kids are smart - some EVEN have to raise and look after disabled parents!!! How realistic can you get?

Yes - the outlandish ideas, the costumes per rata. Almost like Manchester United producing a new football strip every week for their fans...and you are very right, the stories suffered epic scale and started to become run of the mill - F***ing shame that. People cannot see beyond. Even if they tried, so many hurdles are in the way, and people complain that there is not enough good drama about....

Your referencs and research on the G.I. Joe/Cobra issue sounds to me like a classic case of the Simpson's Poochie idea - draft in an idea that seems clever but in effect does the opposite. Hey, I am all for progress of a story, but there are some ideas that beggar belief. Keep it simple. Prefer if it was someone with Cobra trying to be clever and then is dispatched like the embesseler in SPECTRE in the film Thunderball. No wonder Larry Hama went ballistic.

Yes, it was a missed opportunity. Best thing was that she was a woman with brains - like Scully - and look - she was regarded the sexiest woman in the world by FHM - TWICE! All she did was think. Smart women are very attractive. Hey, that's exects for you.

I thought the Split Seconds was an innovative concept - then you look deep at it and realise it should have been renamed - SHIT seconds. They just became stupid!!! It was like Mad Max meets magic. What were they thinking of having holo/robot versions of themselves and that? All the vehicles were farce - cleverly engineered - but farce. The original machines made sense, the racer machines lost the plot, and this lot.....less said the better.

Fair doos on the Manta explanation - maybe they went with it because it had the same name.......Kurt did as good he can with the piss poor materials he had.

Heheh, the blue Streak - kind of thing kids would boast in the playground...

I have seen the fake - and, credit to the man who made it! Hey, who knows, one day they may ACTUALLY make one proper.

Thank you very much on the intelligent and very eye opening feedback!

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-05 08:44:31 +0000 UTC]

I know, it’s almost like your brain makes you forget how truly annoying the sidekicks were until you see them and then it’s like reliving a trauma.

I think Lucas is a genius and I love that he created Star Wars and Indiana Jones but I think he lost touch with what made his work great in the beginning and got too wrapped up in trying to make the movies look good instead of actually making them good.

What killed me about that fridge scene besides it going past the point of suspension of disbelief was that it was totally unnecessary. I thought they had a perfect set up in the beginning of the movie with the drag race being a precursor to how Jones could have escaped. I thought it was going to come down to Jones hotwiring one of the test area vehicles and outracing the Russians past the bomb blast.

If you play the videogame Fallout: New Vegas they make fun of the fridge scene in the movie. Since the game takes place after a nuclear war you find debris all over the place and in one spot there is a broken fridge with a skeleton inside it wearing Jones hat. I stole the hat.

Thanks, a lot of fans of the original Star Wars share this view as well. I’m actually thankful to South Park for breaking Lucas and Spielberg’s balls so bad for all the needless edits they did in their stuff. From what I hear it actually stopped Spielberg from going back and trying to edit stuff into JAWS to make it “better” Honestly if he wanted to make the movie better he should just stick the deleted scenes from the film back into it since they added a lot of cool character moments without taking anything away from the story.

The way I look at it most of these parent’s groups are assholes with no other power in their life and nothing better to do so they fight to impose their narrow views and will on others in an attempt to feel right and powerful.

And your right, most kids are smart enough to know not to try something they saw in a cartoon and the ones who weren’t learned a hard lesson or they died. Its natural selection at it’s finest.

It does suck but sometimes someone comes along and really gets the characters right and does an epic animated series. Like Bruce Timm when he did Batman the Animated Series in the 1990s. I think He-Man started strong but delays in the production of both the comic book, cartoon and the toy line itself really just nose dived its comeback into the dirt.

That’s kind of how it was with Hasbro. They would design these crazy characters and vehicles and then leave it up to Hama to write up their bios and somehow work them into the comics. When he had too many characters he didn’t like cluttering things up he used the return of the original Cobra Commander and a war in a foreign country to wipe out a bunch of them. The ones he really disliked died badly.

I think that was part of the problem with Kenner. They never seemed to realize the full potential of their other toy lines besides Masters of the Universe and The Real Ghostbusters.

The problem with the Split-Seconds was the designs were just disjointed. Like take Detonator with Bruce Sato. It was a dune buggy that became an attack helicopter and what was essentially four wheels on a frame with two guns on it with the added bonus of splitting apart into two jet packs that were triple the size of the figure they were attached to.

On top of this every figure was put into quite possibly the most poorly designed uniforms and helmets in the series. They miss the entire point of them needing to appearing normal in public and some of the masks actually had hats on them. I shit you not they put a fucking hat on a helmet!

The only part of the Split Second line I didn’t have a problem with were the hard light clones of the drivers. I thought it stayed true to the illusion is the ultimate weapon tagline since the driver could potentially use them as decoys to draw fire while they were on a mission.

No problem, I’m enjoying our discussion.

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-05 18:25:06 +0000 UTC]

I enjoy this convo too - if we were in a bar (pub in the UK) I think we be talking till midnight!! All good mind.

Yes.....sidekicks...well thankfully we do not have them anymore - alas they have melded within new action heroes - the kind who 'kick ass' but are also full of it.

Personally, I think a drag racer would have been better - heck, Harrison Ford and George did American Graffiti, and Mr Lucas is a speed nut, until a crash stopped him. Having said that, think it would have been a better idea. Opportunity missed.

"If you play the videogame Fallout: New Vegas they make fun of the fridge scene in the movie. Since the game takes place after a nuclear war you find debris all over the place and in one spot there is a broken fridge with a skeleton inside it wearing Jones hat. I stole the hat." What a quality statement - mate you should have seen my smile on that - HAHAHAH! Stole the hat. F***! XD

Hehe - when comedy parodies something so well, it actually changes things - sort of that Emperor’s new clothes thing. You see it so clear its the ultimate wake up call.

Agreed - the originals STILL work - STILL! After thirty years, they are still fresh (except for Jedi). Yes the fans KNOW what Wars was about. Its drama, its things we UNDERSTAND, and so on and forth but I cannot put it into proper words here. Sides, the prequels' vision is not that brilliant; hell the average TV Sci-Fi show can pull off similar SFX; Look to BSG to see my point - may not be IMAX but not crud either. As a result a lot is missing. Its Horrid, turgid, banal. When you see the prequels for the originals - its literally TWO different types of films made by TWO different types of people.

Lucas WAS a genius - now I have no idea what he is - a fool at best - no new stuff, no new ideas - all he ever does is revamp and revamp and revamp all the six films. So far we have them on HD and Blue Ray - no doubt they will end up in 3D. Then what??

Personally if he loves revamping, he should revamp Jedi - make it the epic ending it deserved to be.... there are limits to it, but there is also room to maneouver.

Actually I (may) plan to do my version of the Rebel Fleet one day.

"The way I look at it most of these parent’s groups are assholes with no other power in their life and nothing better to do so they fight to impose their narrow views and will on others in an attempt to feel right and powerful."

^^

I was nodding like a drilling donkey to this. Yes, pathetic pitiful little dictators who want the world to MELD their way because THEY think THEY are right, they are the ones who F***ing know best, and so on and so forth. Alas as a result we are getting more and more bland shit being named and that they DARE call entertainment, and even re-writes of history because we do not want to offend a few "Ethnic Minorities" (I'm one of these 'Ethnic Minorities' (sic) and I think that is all BOLLOCKS!).

"And your right, most kids are smart enough to know not to try something they saw in a cartoon and the ones who weren’t learned a hard lesson or they died. Its natural selection at it’s finest." Oh God, I agree with that too! May use this line myself.....

That's corporate bollocks at its best - and yes the Batman series in 1990 was bold, was innovative, and was brave. I had a feeling it could have been more - but....least it came close.

Its the talent of people like Hama who makes stale ideas strong, alas the world is becoming more and more corporate (unless this financial crisis leads to their destruction and who knows, something better may come to pass....) who want to make a product that sells - not influence, change, innovate, or create.

On the subject of the excess characters in GI Joe, I agree and if he got away with it - excellent. The ones who he really hated who died VERY horribly - THAT I can understand. Did a character in a story once, he was the hero but I was involved in him. When I looked back, he became such a C*** I had to DESTROY HIM!

Oh yes, it’s all corporate - all they see is the amount of cash coming in - which does not make enough is discarded.

As for the Split Seconds, interesting idea of the holos being decoys - clever idea!

However, it was utter bollocks overall. The vehicles had stupid weapons, most being one shot in nature; were absurd, and had no innovativeness like the older vehicles.

In addition, most of their costumes and masks just became jokes - and yes I remember the mask with the hat!! If I remember correctly, there were two masks that had hats, one looked like a F***ing eagle's head, another had EYEBALLS on stalks hanging from it, yet another looked like a skull, and another looked like a Shark's mouth!!! WTF was that all about!?!??!?!?!??!

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-06 14:29:15 +0000 UTC]

I don’t drink or hang in bars but I do talk for hours with my friends.

Yeah the only guy still actively doing the sidekick thing is Batman. All the rest have formed their own teams, or grown up went off on their own.

That’s how I feel. Almost anything makes more sense than trying to make us believe Jones could survive ground zero of an atom bomb test inside a fridge that is launched miles away by the blast and smashed into the desert.

I think I still have Indy’s hat in my inventory in the game. I also have Jason Voorhees hockey mask.

I never had as bad a reaction to Return of the Jedi as other fans. Granted the Ewok thing went a little out of hand but at least they had that little cannibal edge to them to differentiate them from actual cuddly teddy bears. The only thing that made me cringe in that movie was the new edition that edited out old Anakin and replaced him with teenage Anakin for no goddamn reason.

I mean really, all the other force ghosts look exactly like they did before they died but Anakin gets to be a teenage ghost? It’s such bullshit.

I agree with you on the prequels. They just didn’t have the magic of the originals and they tended to spend more time on the boring shit rather than concentrate on the action and adventure. I think the only one I actually liked out of the prequels was part three when Anakin finally becomes Vader.

I can understand wanting to put the movies in HD and all that but this 3D thing is such a lame gimmick. It was one thing when James Cameron did it with Avatar but do we really need Piranha 3D or any of the other shit movies since Avatar that came out in 3D? This is the same trick they used in the 1950s and 1980s to get people into the theatres to watch bad movies and once your not in the theatre with the glasses it loses the sliver of charm that effect gave the film.

I’m at the point now where I just want Lucas to either walk away and stop making movies or somehow redeem himself and make one last epic movie. I saw on IMDB that there is a 5th Indiana Jones movie in the works and I pray to God that if it does actually get done that it makes up for the last one and ends the franchise on a high note.

And really if he wants to do a revamps so bad he should delete the fridge scene and put something more fun and plausible into Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. I actually loved every other part of the movie except that one. I can’t believe test audiences didn’t scream at him for that.

You’re exactly right with the parents groups, they’re all freaks who want the world to be whitewashed like a Disney movie from the 1950s instead of the reality it is. The only thing that angers me more than those parent group idiots are the religious nuts who feel the need to bash people over the head with their beliefs. I worked with several Born Again Christians and they just drive me insane with how they conduct themselves.

It’s like okay, I get it you found God and I’m happy for you but your not going to convert me over to your way of thinking so stop bothering me with it and more importantly stop pitying and condemning me to hell just because I don’t share in your beliefs you arrogant fucknuts.

"And your right, most kids are smart enough to know not to try something they saw in a cartoon and the ones who weren’t learned a hard lesson or they died. Its natural selection at it’s finest." Oh God, I agree with that too! May use this line myself...”

Feel free to use that line if you want.

Timm released a book that chronicled all the major censorship issues he had to deal with making Batman:TAS and how they dealt with it and found creative ways to get around them in some instances. As a way to remind themselves what not to show they made a joke painting showing all the major things they weren’t allowed to show on the cartoon happening all at once.

I think any creator worth their salt comes up with creative ways to get around the restrictions that are slapped on them by networks and companies in general when it comes to entertainment.

Well if you look up Raptor from GI Joe you can pretty much see why Hama trapped him in a landlocked freighter and let him die from eating the expired food contained inside it. At least with most of the other characters they got shot or blown up so it was a fairly quick death.

I can’t argue with you about the Split Seconds since I agree with you on them. Dusty Hayes “New Backlash” mask and Julio Lopez’s “new streamer mask” had hats welded onto them.

The eagle head mask was Nevada Rushmore’s Totem mask from the racing series but you might also be thinking of Jacques LaFleur and the one with the dangling eyeballs was Floyd Malloy’s “new buckshot” mask.

So besides being totally lame almost none of the classic characters masks had new powers except to control the clones which apparently necessitated them being reconfigured to look as stupid as humanly possible. Bruno Sheppard’s “new Magna Beam” mask looks like his head is either being consumed by a blob or he’s trying to become a bullet/sex toy.

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-06 19:59:55 +0000 UTC]

Ooops sorry, just where I meet most friends

Hmm didne know that with the Bat - cheers for that (Hey that rhymed!!).

Maybe the reason so many people missed it was because by then no one cared as in "ah...."

Jason's mask, Indy's hat? Now you scare me LOL! XD

Fair doos on the point of Jedi, but I still wish it was more epic - hell, if he can whip up a rather nifty fight over Coruscant in Sith, then he can do a lot better in Jedi - imagine all those old warships taking on the Empire - that would be something - I love a good space fight - we do not see enough of them anymore....

Ewoks I never liked because despite the cannibal nature of them, a bunch of pint sized bear folk against a hi-tech army...just my gripe.

As for the 3D thing - yer DAMN right - I saw Alice in 3d and was impressed by the effect, but it did not make the movie wow me - in fact it disappointed me - felt like a blah version of Lord of the Rings. Whole load of folk said Avatar was a success because of the 3D, now out is Hugo that is said to be better 3D wise. If excellent 3D is a dead cert money maker, okay. If not it proved the validity of the gimmicky nature of 3D.

If I recall, many liked Avatar because it showed superior armed people having the crap taken out of them.

However, 3D cannot save a film - think this - can 3D make Thunderbirds a superfilm? Crap in 3D methinks. Sides, 3D is perception. If one needs tech to make them really see a ball...oh dear...

Some people cannot let us be ourselves and they then have the GALL to call us unenlightened - and then allow murderers, pervs and such to walk because of their "human rights" and stuff. The powers that be have to stop this rot NOW. Jap cartoons came out years ago - with nudity, sex, and worse. What happened? Virtually nothing. You will always get one or a few assholes who will mimic the stuff they see. To make out society is going to end because of it is nuts. Its the opportunity for them to DICTATE our lives. I am for some form of protection, but not at the expense of common sense.

Clever man Timm - least he tried - probably fail now with the corpoate powers....

"Bruno Sheppard’s “new Magna Beam” mask looks like his head is either being consumed by a blob or he’s trying to become a bullet/sex toy."

Now there is an image XD

Does beg a question what went through their minds....

Cheers for replying again sir!

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-07 12:13:59 +0000 UTC]

It’s okay. I’ve lived my entire life across the street from a rowdy bar so I’m kind of sick of them.

Honestly I was digging Kingdom of the Crystal Skull until that point and then no matter how cool the rest of the film was I just kept thinking “How is he not a blob of glowing jelly in the desert?” I’m such a rabid fan of the originals that it was almost like I was in shock at seeing that in his movie.

True, they could have squeezed in one more space battle but you have to admit the one at the end was pretty friggin epic. That combined with Luke battling Vader and the Emperor for the final time made me really not give a crap about the Ewoks. And say what you want about them, the Ewok Village play set I had as a kid was fucking awesome.

Yeah but there are moments in history that show the high tech Vs low tech thing doesn’t always favor the army with the best technology. Look at the American revolutionary war. It was essentially farmers and rednecks fighting off one of the most well trained armies on the planet and we actually beat them because it was on our home turf. The same thing can be said about America when we lost the Vietnam War. We had the tech and everything going for us and we lost to an army with lesser tech because they knew the land better than the invading army and were ruthless fighters.

That’s how I feel. The 3D does nothing to really enhance the storylines and it just seems like a pointless gimmick. And your right, seeing a shit movie in 3D doesn’t save it, it just makes you feel like an idiot for having sat there in a dumb pair of glasses instead of watching a regular movie that may have entertained you.

Yeah, I mean I grew up with some of the most violent cartoons in history being played on every channel here when I was a kid and none of them influenced me to do anything crazy or negative except become addicted to the cartoons.

These sorts of parent group witch hunts have been a normal thing here since the 1950s when these morons tried banning comic books and rock and roll music because it was going to corrupt the youth and end society. The one thing these sorts of people never seem to understand is that when they try to ban something it makes people want it more.

Surprisingly Timm is still doing quality work; he just does it for cable cartoon networks and in comic books where he has the freedom to do was he pleases.

Seriously, look at his mask and tell me what it looks like [link]

Also if you notice, every single Split Second box art has the clone and the driver in the wrong vehicle half. If Bruno was driving the bike he would have been on the yellow glider when it transformed and not the motorcycle half... dumbasses

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-14 19:12:42 +0000 UTC]

Hahahah - yes - a blob of gold snot!!!

I agree and respect all the above - especially the 3D shit!!! =- and thank you very much for taking time to share your passion - there is nothing wrong in liking MASK and such - far better than F***ing SOAPS!!!

Least MASK etc takes your mind elsewhere....

Always a pleasure and thank you for this great disscussion!

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-15 00:59:22 +0000 UTC]

Here, I found a video of it [link]

I know, thankfully most of the soap operas here have been cancelled

No problem

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-18 22:30:36 +0000 UTC]

LOL!!! That is twisted

Amazed Lucas did not sue....

Thanks for the chat - and yer right, Cartoon network is the last bastion - watched a bit of Generation Rex and it was VERY mature about media manipulation, and the contempt for humanity....from a cartoon....brilliant!

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-19 22:29:03 +0000 UTC]

I know, I never yank the body out and toss it around, I just take the hat and leave.

He can't really sue since they never specicfally call him Indy and so many people have made fun of him for that scene at this point it would be insane for him to target that game when South Park spent an entire episode saying Lucas and Spielberg were raping Indy and Star Wars

Yeah, there are some out there still pushing the envelope as far as kids cartoons go, but sadly not enough.

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-24 08:21:04 +0000 UTC]

Agree on all levels

(Kept the hat - classic )

Thank you again for replying and this great debate!

Oh - and have a blast over the festive season my friend!

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-25 02:40:44 +0000 UTC]

Mo problem, have a Happy Holiday as well

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Colourbrand In reply to MJMJR [2011-12-27 18:38:48 +0000 UTC]

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MJMJR In reply to Colourbrand [2011-12-28 00:46:27 +0000 UTC]

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MJMJR In reply to fletcherc [2011-11-24 01:27:30 +0000 UTC]

This will show you what it's like working with this nut. [link]

His was definitely one of the more fun masks. Though they did have a few weird and pointless ones for some of them.

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fletcherc In reply to MJMJR [2011-11-24 21:24:47 +0000 UTC]

Damn weird laugh he's got, that's for sure ... crazy bastard ...
Heh, but I love crazy guys!

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MJMJR In reply to fletcherc [2011-11-26 13:43:12 +0000 UTC]

hehe yeah its a crazy laugh, but still amusing to hear it coming out of him at random

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MJMJR In reply to HBPotlood [2011-11-21 20:19:17 +0000 UTC]

Thanks! It's pretty easy since the episodes he was in pretty much showed all this stuff.

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MJMJR In reply to TheOracleDragon [2011-11-21 20:17:53 +0000 UTC]

Thank you

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TheOracleDragon In reply to MJMJR [2011-11-21 20:21:12 +0000 UTC]

Welcome

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MJMJR In reply to TheOracleDragon [2011-11-22 00:37:40 +0000 UTC]

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