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Published: 2016-09-09 21:02:19 +0000 UTC; Views: 3690; Favourites: 52; Downloads: 5
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Description
This stamp is not intended to convert anyone or shove Christianity or Judaism down anyone's throat. If you don't believe what the Bible says, that's your business. This stamp merely addresses a common myth about the accuracy of Bible translation.The Bible has not changed over the centuries.
Have you ever heard someone say that the Bible is the result of a game of telephone? You know, that game where a whole bunch of people line up and one person whispers something into another person's ear, that person whispers it into the next's, and so on, and the end result often sounds nothing like the original message? Many people believe that the Bible is similar. They assume that the Bible has been "translated and retranslated" from its original text so many times that it's no longer accurate to its origin. They believe it's changed and translated so many times over the centuries that you can't trust it. That's a very legitimate concern, but, fortunately, it's unwarranted.
Of course this doesn’t mean that all translations are equal! Some are clearly better than others and convey wording closer to the original language. Most scholars I respect recommend the King James over all other versions – it is the standard that all modern translations are compared to. When the KJV was translated, it was done by over 500 scholars working separately, all translating from the original Greek and Hebrew, and using the church's Latin Vulgate for minor aid. They met periodically to compare notes. If their translations weren't 100% the same, they threw it all out and started over. It took many, many years to achieve the finished translation, and it probably is the most accurate of all of them. But please don’t confuse this with those who claim the KJV is the only inspired version. Bob Enyart utterly destroys that argument here . The English Standard Version (ESV) and New International Version (NIV) are also extremely reliable translations. I generally compare those three versions (KJV, ESV, and NIV) when I study the Bible, so as to make sure I get as close as possible to the original text.
If you would like, Bible Gateway (www.biblegateway.com/ ) is a great website with almost every English translation in existence. You can read them all for free. A good rule to follow is that if you ever have any question about the original meaning of a passage, try comparing several versions of the Bible. The one(s) that have a different meaning from the other(s), no matter how slight, is probably the faulty one in regards to that passage.
Direct translation
The Bible is a direct translation of its original texts. This means that it was only translated once from the original Hebrew and Greek (and Aramaic for a few verses in Daniel) into the versions we have now. All major languages of the world are only one step away from the original. The manuscripts are accurate to over 99% precision. The Bible hasn't been changed.
To quote Gregory Koukl, MA in apologetics and philosophy (www.leestrobel.com/videoserver… ):
"When I debated the New Age author Deepak Chopra on national TV, me made an unusual statement about the text of the New Testament. He claimed that the King James Version was the eighteenth or nineteenth iteration of the Bible since the years 313. This comment reflected, I think, the idea that many people have that the New Testament has gone through a serious of translations and retranslations - "iterations" - before finally settling into the English versions of today. A simple appeal to the facts was all I needed to dispatch Dr. Chopra's challenge. All [major] current translations of the Bible start with manuscripts written in the original language - Greek, in the case of the New Testament - which are then translated directly into English [or German, French, Chinese, etc.]. Instead of multiple "iterations," there is only one step in language from the original Greek to our English versions." - Koukl, Greg, Tactics (ISBN 978-0310-28292-1)Meaningful differences make up less than 1% of total differences between original Scripture texts and our translations. When there are differences between the originals and our translations, they are rarely, if ever, about significant doctrinal or historical topics. In fact, over 70% of these "variants" (as they are referred to) concern spelling! We don't know if John's Greek name was spelled with one "V" or two. But does it change the meaning of any particular passage? John is still John. A similar example of such variants would be if a British person and an American person wrote a paragraph about paint colors. I am American, therefore I spell it "color." The British person would probably spell it "colour." Our writing is different, but it does not affect the meaning of the text in any way. We both mean the same thing.
To quote Robertson McQuilikin in Understanding and Applying the Bible:
"Textual criticism is the science of comparing text with text to determine the original text. ...We can be virtually certain of the original text [of Scripture]. In those few instances where questions remain, no significant doctrinal issues are at stake. Virtually all critics were motivated by the conviction that the original text was divinely inspired and thus that an accurate text was of utmost importance. Textual criticism seeks to establish the original text with the greatest possible accuracy."The Dead Sea scrolls (originals) discovered in 1947 also provided a profound testimony to the reliability of the centuries of transmission of the Bible text, as every Old Testament book found was virtually word for word with today’s Bible! (the few differences were “obvious slips of the pen or variations in spelling”2 ).
More reliable than Homer and Shakespeare
English New Testament translations are more accurate than English translations of Homer's Iliad or Shakespeare's plays. I have not studied German, French, Spanish, etc. translations in comparison to their translations of the Iliad and Shakespeare, but I do know about English versions.
Homer’s Iliad, the most renowned book of ancient Greece, is a very distant second to the New Testament in manuscript support, with only 643 copies. Of these copies, there are 764 disputed lines, compared to only 40 lines in the New Testament 5 . The New Testament even fares better than the 37 plays written by William Shakespeare in the 17th century. Every play contains various gaps in the printed text, forcing scholars in many cases to “fill in the blanks”. With the 24,000 copies of the New Testament, we can be sure that nothing has been lost. It is also very impressive to note that scholars can recreate all but 11 verses of the New Testament by simply piecing together quotations by the early church fathers of the second and third centuries.
Sources:
Tactics by Gregory Koukl
Understanding and Applying the Bible by Robertson McQuilikin
www.str.org/articles/textual-v…
str.typepad.com/weblog/2009/05…
bibleevidences.com/textual-evi…
Related content
Comments: 161
Wertyla In reply to ??? [2016-09-12 17:37:50 +0000 UTC]
I think so. There are websites where you can look up the same Bible verse in different versions of the Bible, and the different translations tend to send the same message.
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Jonot In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 20:44:40 +0000 UTC]
I read the King James Version of the bible and I enjoy the lessons, doctoren, and truth that it holds. But you do realize that it was originally in Hebrew, then Greek, Latin, German, and finally into English. With so many languages that it went through there was bound to be a few passages that had been altered in order for it to work with another language. True that there have been many gatherings to ensure that the message it holds remains and that much of it is translated correctly, but take into account for human error.
On a side note, the bible is the word of God.
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sin-and-love In reply to Jonot [2016-09-16 18:58:40 +0000 UTC]
Read the description. Aso, go look up what the significance of the Dead Sea scrolls is.
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Jonot In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-16 19:30:42 +0000 UTC]
My church currently doesn't recognize the Dead Sea scrolls as cannon scripture, much like many non Catholic Churches don't recognize the Apocrifer as scripture. I do recognize them as influential writing in Christianity .
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sin-and-love In reply to Jonot [2016-09-16 20:30:04 +0000 UTC]
daphuq? The dead sea scrolls are pretty much identical to the books of the Bible today1 That's what makes them so important! What kind of church do you go to?!
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Jonot In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-16 21:45:56 +0000 UTC]
I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
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sin-and-love In reply to Jonot [2016-09-17 05:46:28 +0000 UTC]
Oh. that explains it.
Well since we're on the subject, I would like to pass on something that I've been wanting to pass to a Mormon for some time. I am very aware that most mormons reject polygamy these days, but if you do happen to know a polygamous man, you should tell him that if God wanted each man to have five wives, then there would only be one man for every five women God put into the world. and if God does not have control over the sex of a child, then God is not omniscient.
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MonocerosArts In reply to Jonot [2016-09-11 02:33:48 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for your opinion, but the facts say otherwise. There was only a single step in language from Hebrew (for the Old Testament) and Greek (the New Testament) to English (or German or other languages.) The KJV was translated directly into English from the original language. There was never a step from German to English. King James was an English king. He wanted an English translation. That's why the wording is so archaic. There was also never a step from Hebrew to Greek. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek. Both were directly translated into English.
I'm not trying to be rude and I hope I haven't hurt your feelings! I've just studied this pretty hard and the idea of multiple iterations is a myth.
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Jonot In reply to MonocerosArts [2016-09-16 19:32:41 +0000 UTC]
No that fine. We all have our view points and that we use what information that we have received to understand things. And I am sorry if I offended you.
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MonocerosArts In reply to Jonot [2016-09-17 03:38:59 +0000 UTC]
You didn't offend me! You just had a question about what I wrote, so I answered it.
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Graeystone In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 16:39:23 +0000 UTC]
The problem with NIV is that many verses removes Jesus' Divinity or link to His Father.
A good list-
www.scionofzion.com/niv_hates.…
^For fresh born again Christians, the wrong/bad translation can give the wrong/bad information.
And another thing, NIV publisher is very strict in terms of Copyrights and spreading NIV. Its nearly 'pay to play' in terms of 'free distribution'. The main reason why KJV is copyrighted is so the wrong people can never get their hands on the ability to translate.
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Wertyla In reply to Graeystone [2016-09-10 21:47:36 +0000 UTC]
You'd think the makers of a BIBLE translation would want it to spread as far as possible...
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AspiePie In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 14:33:04 +0000 UTC]
This doesn't appear to be much more then apologetic sources?
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MonocerosArts In reply to AspiePie [2016-09-10 14:37:08 +0000 UTC]
And...? They list their sources.
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rockstarcrossing In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 09:32:57 +0000 UTC]
The Bible lacked my interest because I have read so much of it and find it hard to believe.
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rockstarcrossing In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-16 20:35:26 +0000 UTC]
Creation, the belief that Jesus is coming and all of that shit
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sin-and-love In reply to rockstarcrossing [2016-09-17 05:48:03 +0000 UTC]
Creationsits are only the minority of Christians, but what's wrong with the idea that Jesus is coming at the end of days?
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rockstarcrossing In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-17 16:28:49 +0000 UTC]
I don't believe Yeezus even existed.
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sin-and-love In reply to rockstarcrossing [2016-09-17 19:57:52 +0000 UTC]
You should know that professional historians and scholars look at people who say that the same way they do people who say the Holocaust never happened.
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rockstarcrossing In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-17 21:34:24 +0000 UTC]
Well there is plenty of evidence of the Holocaust....
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sin-and-love In reply to rockstarcrossing [2016-09-17 22:05:58 +0000 UTC]
As there is for jesus. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRTkXb…
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rockstarcrossing In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-17 22:17:39 +0000 UTC]
Why couldn't you just type proof.....
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floolf03 In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 09:06:44 +0000 UTC]
True, it hasn't been. Which makes it even more clear it was a load of horseshit from the get-go. Thx for pointing it out, tho.
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MonocerosArts In reply to floolf03 [2016-09-11 02:53:21 +0000 UTC]
Just curious, but why did you fave it if you hate it..?
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floolf03 In reply to MonocerosArts [2016-09-12 05:29:39 +0000 UTC]
Just because it's not necessarily true doesn't mean I hate it. However absurd, you are entitled to your own oppinion. Didn't fave it because of that, tho, that was because if you merely click the fav tab on the app, even by mistake, you automatically fave the post, and you can't take it back.
Deviantart for you.
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sin-and-love In reply to floolf03 [2016-09-16 19:01:34 +0000 UTC]
If you want to unfave something, you merely have to go into your favorites, look for the deviation in question, and click the little pencil in the top left corner. "remove from favorites" will be one of the options in the list that you will see.
Also, what makes you say it's "horsesh*t"?
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floolf03 In reply to sin-and-love [2016-09-16 19:29:00 +0000 UTC]
Thanks, mate, did that.
Well, as much as I agree that I can be fairly strongly spoken, I do believe religious texts to be utterly wrong. Of course, many scriptures are derived from true stories, like the story of Jesus of Nazareth, which is proven to be largely true with him being a man of the people, or the one that says Mohammed was an actual man who said... things, it's important to realize that as a developed culture, and as peoples (yes, peoples, plural.) of wealth and knowledge, to admit to ourselves our old ideas, ideals and idologies are faulty is very much necessary.
It's comforting to think you'd go to heaven, or that you could judge, profile or lecture others based merely on one of over 4.200 religious beliefs, but objectively, if there is no valid proof other than tales and scriptures, you always have to be critical, and I understand that this is a very challenging thing to do. (I come from a very religious family, and it took me a long time to understand the basis of secularism and why it is important.) The fact is, I now know that it just doesn't matter. Even if there was a chance of eternal life, which seems to be one of the very key points of christianity, we are still afraid of death, violence and suffering, and I understand this as our evolutionary unity. If you realize that man wasn't placed on earth by god and then cursed with sin, but that we have come up on our own and made it our quest to end suffering and to make this tiny, rocky, lonely mudball called earth, that we are floating through the universe on, a better place, you'll find that instead of chasing after a relief, you start to seek knowlegde, enlightenment and betterment. Not based on some book, some law or some ideology, but your own goals and ambitions.
Saying that, though, I need to point out that no matter how wrong, how immoral and cruel select religions can be, merely fighting, banning or disrespecting them won't help the cause. So please understand my full respect and open ear towards your world view. I have known a multitude of people whom have been saved by only their faith from falling into a depression or giving up on life. Wether what they believed was true doesn't matter to me. Point is, no matter what religion, what ideology or what idea you follow, there should at least be a common goal, which is to stand for peace, union and acceptance. There's nothing more for me, or other secularists to ask.
I hope that clears it up, and sorry for the long answer, it's the only way I can tell the full story without leaving out important parts. However, and most importantly, there are still flaws, and for the sake of a constructive discussion and further improvement of undertanding between people and cultures, I have always, and will always, call bullsh*t.
Cheers.
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sin-and-love In reply to floolf03 [2016-12-07 20:39:14 +0000 UTC]
[Hi. Sorry I'm only just now responding to this; it disappeared from my inbox before I could get around to it the first time.]
First, you seem to be commiting the chronological snobbery fallacy :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronolo…
Second, you're actually making a lot of incorrect presumptions about me, my faith, and my attitude towards it. You can correct them by reading this essay of mine: sin-and-love.deviantart.com/ar…
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floolf03 In reply to sin-and-love [2016-12-07 21:28:36 +0000 UTC]
Alright, I've checked the sources.
Now, I take it that C.S. Lewis (a man whom I, personally, very much respect.) has been a great influence on you indeed, since both of the sources you just posted seem to be able to be backtracked to him. So I will go over them both individually.
First of all, the concept of "chronological snobbery". A term which, as stated in the Wikipedia article, was coined by C.S. Lewis and Owen Barnfield, as to say, not commonly referred to in the scientific method. Whilst it would be arrogant to say mere timely progress would make statements, facts or philosophy more or less relevant, it can not be denied that modern research has revolutionized the way we view our world. Moderm methods and the implementation of the universal scientific method made results more reliable by a dozens of magnitudes. -I also repell a lot of statements from the time before the start of the time of enlightenment, as I feel the outrageus control and influence the katholic church had over europe at this time changed the view of the people. After all, objective research was illegal at the time. I don't believe it to be "snobbery" to disregard the science of bygone ages, as their results were, again, sketchy at best.
Secondly, and more importantly, I understand you. I come from a catholic family, and therefore went to church for most of my childhood and teenage years. I have read the bible, and, up to the age of around 16, was determined to some day find god through the science I, by that time, already found a passion for. My life and character have been formed and shaped by this quest that, ultimately, led to the end of my faith. Most of all, though, it has been characterized by fear. The fear of death, the unknown, the future in itself. The fear of there being nothing, no purpose and no premise. A good example would be the unavoidable heat death of our universe, which I am sure you are familiar with. The end of everything, the end of time.
When I left church, I was told I was arrogant for believing I knew better, and that I was a coward for refusing an allmighty, all seeing god. -The truth is, I'd still rather have there be a god than nothing at all. I'm still afraid, and I will always be. But as a man who claims to obide by the scientific method, I can not let personal views and oppinions change facts. We cannot disregard concepts such as occam's razor for the sake of our own beliefs.
Words are powerful, and they have always been. Words changed your view to turn you into a believer, and words were the reason I wasted years of my life debating with myself, lying to myself and conciously looking over truths. But words are dangerous. Words are manupulative. If nobody ever had you read the bible, if nobody ever told you there was a god, you would not know about him. Without words, you wouldn't see anything, in the same way those that came up with the original legends, those that wrote the book, saw and tried to explain. Only if you can detach yourself from the words of others, cover your ears and hold your breath, you can find your very own truth. -If the truth you see isn't silence, you are starting to make up your own world view. This is the very essence of waht science really is. It is an altruistic effort to find truth. It doesn't follow a goal, it doesn't follow an agenda. It simply describes what we see.
-This isn't about a choice. It's about definitions. If you want to be a scientist, then you can not call what you see and feel "Christianity". You can not call it religion. Otherwise it will always affect the way you interpret the results you get. Is there something out there? Maybe. Maybe we can't see it. It's possible. -But it is up to you to confirm it. None of the things the bible states was ever proven, and you know it. If you may, go and prove it. I will accept your findings gladly. But don't take it for granted. Not based on the words of others.
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sin-and-love In reply to floolf03 [2016-12-07 21:40:29 +0000 UTC]
1)While most of what you said in response to Chronological snobbery is true, there are two major issues.
i) What you said about the Catholic Church is actually a common misconception. Not only were most universities like Oxford founded and funded by the Medieval church, but the trial of Gallileo wasn't even about what most people think it was: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJO6I4…
ii)While it might not actually qualify as chronological snobbery, It's still illogical to use the fact that the Israelites thought that the Earth was flat and the stars near as a reason to dismiss beliefs of theirs that have nothing to do with Astronomy. I mean, by that logic the fact that the Aztecs were so ahead in astronomy would mean that we should all be sacrificing still-beating human hearts to the sun.
2a)Funny you should talk about trying to find God in science...
i)sin-and-love.deviantart.com/jo…
ii)sin-and-love.deviantart.com/jo…
2b)The heat death (AKA the big freeze) isn't actually inevitable, as it's not the only possibility.
i)You probably already know about the still-possible big crunch, but did you know there's a third possibility? It's not as likely as the big freeze, but still much more likely than the big crunch. In this scenario, the universe keeps on expanding faster and faster and faster to the point where it actually literally rips itself apart, and all distances within it become infinite. When I first read learned this, what I heard was "The curtain is going to be (literally) torn back, and we will all stand in God's super-reality."
ii)even with the Heat death, there's still this factor (warning, make sure your brain gets a cigarette after you read this, because you're in for some serious mindf*ck): www.exitmundi.nl/eternity.htm
2c)I would like to point something out. You say you (rightly) refuse to let emotions affect your judgement, and yet the entire point of this paragraph seems to be (as far as I can tell) "I stopped believing in God because I got depressed about the universe."
3)Everything in this paragraph is true. But the entire point of my essay was that I don't need to cover my ears anymore. (I never actually did that to begin with, but you know what I mean.)
i)If you go read the really old stuff, you'll see that atheists have actually been making the exact same arguments for centuries. What ones that were not obliterated in the apologetic works of Lewis can be just as thoroughly destroyed by a conversation with an actual historical scholar. For example, just about everything in the Bible from Abraham onward (and I'll talk about the rest later) is accepted as history, but I read in one commentary Bible that that book may have been an ancient play) by all serious scholars but the most fringe nutters (akin to those few biologists who don't buy evolution). For example, the Egyptians don't mention the Hebrews or the parting sea because they as a nation only ever recorded their victories, and also because slaves were pretty much a nonentity to them.
ii)And things like the book of Job and the stuff before Abraham are likely to simply be parables, not meant to be taken as a recording of actual events in the first place.
iii)And even then, the folks back then had a very different mindset about this stuff my dad (who was actually lucky enough to study under Molly Marschall, a woman who is as big a name in our denomination's theology as neil Degrasse Tyson is in astronomy) has an analogy he likes to use: Say you're telling a story about a tiger chasing two antelopes, and you say that at one point the antelopes split up, and that the tiger was so greedy and wanted both of them so bad that it bisected itself and died. You then ask if the other person thinks the story is true or not. Someone from today would of course say "Of course not, how can a tiger bisect itself?" However, someone from the very ancient middle east would say "Of course it's true. Greed kills, doesn't it?"
4) I honestly have no idea what you're getting at in your last paragraph here.
i)However, that very last sentence suggests that you need to read this: sin-and-love.deviantart.com/jo…
As one final note, I suggest you read this. It's written by an aeducated apologist I know: sin-and-love.deviantart.com/jo…
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floolf03 In reply to sin-and-love [2016-12-07 20:46:46 +0000 UTC]
Hey there! Long time no see!
Imma have to read back though what exactly it was I said, and I'll check out what you just sent me. I'll get back to you should there be anything else to be said.
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sin-and-love In reply to floolf03 [2016-12-07 21:29:38 +0000 UTC]
alright! keep this comment in your inbox so you don't forget.
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MonocerosArts In reply to floolf03 [2016-09-12 18:01:28 +0000 UTC]
Oh, okay. If you want to unfave something, you just have to click the button again. At least that's how the mobile version works for me.
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floolf03 In reply to MonocerosArts [2016-09-13 05:21:12 +0000 UTC]
TFW you meet a nice, friendly christian and you can't say anything because they are chill af.
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sin-and-love In reply to Bigjack66 [2016-09-16 19:01:59 +0000 UTC]
wow! both an ad hominem and an ad lapidem at the same time!
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TheDreamVista In reply to Bigjack66 [2016-09-10 04:23:03 +0000 UTC]
That's basically an ad hominem attack.
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MonocerosArts In reply to TheDreamVista [2016-09-10 14:23:42 +0000 UTC]
It is an Ad Hominem attack. And it's name-calling. And a childish insult. Probably best to ignore this guy.
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MonocerosArts In reply to J-Yoshi64 [2016-09-10 14:29:07 +0000 UTC]
Thanks!
It's sad how many people are commenting here with stuff like "you're stupid!" "I don't like the Bible!" or "it contains flaws! (I totally haven't read the description)". Lol, I'm just not even going to bother with comments like those.
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J-Yoshi64 In reply to MonocerosArts [2016-09-11 19:18:21 +0000 UTC]
I've only seen 2 comments here like that
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MonocerosArts In reply to J-Yoshi64 [2016-09-11 22:31:26 +0000 UTC]
That's good. A couple comments are veiled insults.
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ShardaronTheDragon In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 02:49:58 +0000 UTC]
Even if they had gone through "translation and re-translation," the Dead Sea Scrolls and the writings of the Early Church Fathers show that modern translations are still accurate to the originals. I never understood this critique of the Bible because it is so easily refuted. We have the modern translations and we have a good chunk of the Old Testament with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and nearly 100% of the New Testament from the ECF. Simply compare and contrast and you'll find they're not that different, and the differences you will find are insignificant changes, like simple spelling errors and such that don't change the actual meaning and message of the books.
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MonocerosArts In reply to ShardaronTheDragon [2016-09-10 14:07:43 +0000 UTC]
Exactly. Well said!
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gdpr-19335497 In reply to ??? [2016-09-10 01:50:13 +0000 UTC]
Actually, it has, and it contains flaws.
But why on earth should it mean it's not true?
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sin-and-love In reply to gdpr-19335497 [2016-09-16 19:06:17 +0000 UTC]
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=…
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Aposteri In reply to gdpr-19335497 [2016-09-10 13:32:58 +0000 UTC]
It only takes a single counterexample to negative a universal statement.
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floolf03 In reply to gdpr-19335497 [2016-09-10 09:08:04 +0000 UTC]
If I said I went to the moon, but then said I went there with a car, would you still believe what I said to be true?
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